on a PVE server in Ranked gear w augs and STILL can't get a 1000 rating; GJ PVP TEAM

[ThorgrimLutgen]

........................Entitled? We aren't gambling here; if you put time and effort into something you should get something for it.

 

Why?

 

You get no medals for coming 4th.

[Darth__Reaver]

Wait this game has PVP gear?

[DomiSotto]

I thought that you can get 1000 rating in group ranked by losing all 10 games?

[Rebel_Guy]

If somebody spent hours gearing people for PVE and spent hours trying to kill HM PVE content but couldn't get anywhere because they just weren't good enough, would they be entitled to getting the achievements, gear, and titles, just because they tried? Wouldn't that devalue the efforts of people who were actually good enough to earn those rewards? Is that much different of what you are asking here??

[AlrikFassbauer]

I once did the Denova ("Explosive Conflict") OP in Hard Mode - being a Newbie to that OP and 2 others as well. We never did Denova = Explosive Conflict before, not even in Story Mode.

 

I think we wiped 20 times because we just didn't know the boss fight mechanics.

10 times or so against those tanks alone.

But the leader kind of dragged us through it.

In PvP, people usually don't have that much patience when people die that often.

 

Okay, they say that the dying of the characters in PvP is "normal" - but on the other hand one is instantly called a "bad" when one's characters actually die often.

 

I often wonder where the border between both extremes is ? Between "dying is normal" and being called a "bad" because of that ?

But on the other hand, this happens in PvE as well.

Edited April 12, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[DomiSotto]

Oh, I just rememebred, they are going to keep the crystals as a reward for the next season as well, isn't it? So, it's not a one time do or die proposition. I think. You can also try solo too, and get more people interested so you get more people in the queue than the one or two experienced teams.

 

A large PvE guild would have a lot of experience in fielding teams and logistics, so it doesn't sound like a completely impossible thing if there is interest and there is drive. I see nothing unethical in flooding the queue with multiple teams in similar equipment, PvE one, and trying it out against each other, as long as nobody has an advantage the gearing allows. If there is only one or two teams that destroys any single new team that entering 6+ new teams simultaneously will ensure that the new teams get to fight against one another fairly regularly.

 

Anyway, come on, it's not so bad, even though I am sorry you did not achieve your goal so far.

Edited April 12, 2015 by DomiSotto

[SlightlySychotic]

Why?

 

You get no medals for coming 4th.

 

You're not actually equating TOR's ranked mode to the actual Olympics, are you? It's a game.

 

More importantly, it's a game mode that, at best, almost no one likes and, at worst, almost everyone despises. Participation is already plummeting and now they want to get even more strict about who can earn even the base rewards? Insane, just insane.

[DomiSotto]

The strictness is a direct result of universal qq about the under-geared players that were there to sit out 10 matches.

 

In all seriousness, the team ranked floor is quite low, with only a tiny fraction of teams not managing to hit 1000. At least on Harbinger last time I checked only 10 toons out of 270 odd some entered did not qualify for the 1000 rating. This a TINY fraction, basically a direct inverse of who qualified for 1350 rating.

 

If your starting budget is 1,200 you need to lose 20 per game out of those 10 games to be at 1000. How much do you lose per lost game? And if you start at 1,200 and you lose against a much higher rated team, should not your losses of rating be very small?

Edited April 12, 2015 by DomiSotto

[SlightlySychotic]

If somebody spent hours gearing people for PVE and spent hours trying to kill HM PVE content but couldn't get anywhere because they just weren't good enough, would they be entitled to getting the achievements, gear, and titles, just because they tried? Wouldn't that devalue the efforts of people who were actually good enough to earn those rewards? Is that much different of what you are asking here??

 

If bronze is hard mode what does that make gold? Super Nightmare Mode? Ultra Legendary? Beast Mode?

 

If enough people couldn't clear Trapjaw on story mode in the best possible gear you could have (even at that point) they'd scale the difficulty down. Period.

[Anyakaschala]

I can agree and disagree with OP.

 

On the agree point: ranking system is crap and designed for a much much larger player base than we currently have, whether that be grouped or yolo. System needs to change.

 

Add that since class balance is pretty non-existent, it also stacks the deck against new teams trying to find out what works for your team, esp playing the ****** pvpers known to frequent grouped.

 

On the disagree point: honestly it sounds like you are doing group ranked and as thus, a thrown together pvp group just won't cut it, and as someone that's played from the beginning, you should know this.

 

Thus, things that need to change: 1) ranking system needs to change, on both group and yolo. Yolo because ones ranking should not be heavily based around on the random strangers you get when you play, esp for a smaller population of players. In grouped, there just isn't enough people to queue for it, thus the big dog groups consistently get matched with thrown together pugs and they roflstomp them.

 

2) there needs to be practice WZ's, esp death match where you can get your group together queue for 4's without a ranking at risk. New 4's teams just don't stand a chance to get any kind of the coordination needed if they just go in newbies and get roflstomped. It's just not an environment people can learn in.

 

And while some people suggest that you only get better by playing better competition, that's not necessarily true. There's a much higher learning curve when you actually get to practice, than just going against better competition.

[skarlson]

My favorite part of this post

 

Anyways, either you are good enough to earn rewards or your not, no need to be so butthurt over it.

 

Gear is the last thing that is wrong with ranked in general. And this is pretty much the only time PVP'ers are gonna get something exclusive, you PVE'ers got a lot of those already so can't we keep the few we get?

 

If it were that simple it would not be called the yolo queue. Everyone knows it is more RNG that skill and all the best people normally cherry pick in an attempt to get around the RNG factor. I will be the first to admit I thought really, you thought I get full ranked and BAM I am automagically top tier and laughed. Given the aforementioned though I fail to see how anyone can be seriously critical of the OP since it is just as possible, even if they fail to see it, he just got stuck with s*** teams.

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

If it were that simple it would not be called the yolo queue. Everyone knows it is more RNG that skill and all the best people normally cherry pick in an attempt to get around the RNG factor. I will be the first to admit I thought really, you thought I get full ranked and BAM I am automagically top tier and laughed. Given the aforementioned though I fail to see how anyone can be seriously critical of the OP since it is just as possible, even if they fail to see it, he just got stuck with s*** teams.

 

OP is talking about GROUP Ranked. NOT solo queue. He hand picked his teammates gathered in voice comms, and then lost to another team. (I assume he wasn't stupid enough to do group ranked outside of voice coms)

Edited April 12, 2015 by Jinre_the_Jedi

[Kakisback]

if you put time and effort into something you should get something for it.

 

Wrong. Skill is required. OP has none, therefore he doesn't get what he wants.

[SlightlySychotic]

Wrong. Skill is required. OP has none, therefore he doesn't get what he wants.

 

Where do you think skill comes from? Time and effort. The more you play, the better you should get. The reward is a mark of your progress, of your growth. If you get nothing back for your growth, your improvement, your skill, then there's no reason to queue.

 

And that is how ranked will die.

[MisterPepssi]

I'm a well experienced Founder/ Beta Tester on a PVE server and I hate how your team puts out rewards like the Black-Silver color crystal when there is no Silver ones for PVE'ers, meaning: plain Black-Silver or White-Silver. Feeling forced to get this crystal I've been waiting on since the beginning, (as Silver was my fav in KOTOR), I labored to get your ranked gear and augmented all my pieces too, after A TON of time spent on it. I ended up with a rating below 1000 despite being heavily geared and with other well geared players. On my PVE server it's the same old troll guild or two who are fully geared, again and again slaughtering everyone else. It's a rigged system and all you ended up accomplishing from Season 3 is to screw over players who should be matched better out of any rewards, even Tier 3, after A TON of hours wasted on Ranked gear. Give all the rewards to just a tiny handful. GOOD JOB screwing us over, and further alienating PVE'ers from PVP'ers. I'll NEVER waste time by pvping again.

 

You're a lost cause, mate.. Stick to PvE

[Kakisback]

Where do you think skill comes from? Time and effort. The more you play, the better you should get. The reward is a mark of your progress, of your growth. If you get nothing back for your growth, your improvement, your skill, then there's no reason to queue.

 

And that is how ranked will die.

 

Wrong again. Putting in the time doesn't mean you'll be good. Innate talent and experience from other games is a huge factor. Some people don't have what it takes. You are not entitled to a position on a leaderboard just because you grinded ranked matches.

[SlightlySychotic]

Wrong again. Putting in the time doesn't mean you'll be good. Innate talent and experience from other games is a huge factor. Some people don't have what it takes. You are not entitled to a position on a leaderboard just because you grinded ranked matches.

 

 

You're right, talent is innate. Meaning you are born with it. Meaning you are lucky to have it. Meaning it is neither earned or deserved. If we're going to base the game around luck we might as well just roll dice.

 

Also, we are talking about bronze tier rewards here. You can argue that gold rewards belong to the super elite but bronze tier should be easily achievable by most people.

[SlightlySychotic]

The strictness is a direct result of universal qq about the under-geared players that were there to sit out 10 matches.

 

In all seriousness, the team ranked floor is quite low, with only a tiny fraction of teams not managing to hit 1000. At least on Harbinger last time I checked only 10 toons out of 270 odd some entered did not qualify for the 1000 rating. This a TINY fraction, basically a direct inverse of who qualified for 1350 rating.

 

If your starting budget is 1,200 you need to lose 20 per game out of those 10 games to be at 1000. How much do you lose per lost game? And if you start at 1,200 and you lose against a much higher rated team, should not your losses of rating be very small?

 

Honestly, most of my rage here is due to the fact that they stripped bronze rewards from the solo queue. Yes, people asked for some sort of baseline to discourage trolls and freeloaders but no one asked for the whole bracket to be left out. Hell, by their own metrics they think a 50% win rate is average yet a player with that record can expect to get at most a thank you letter. That forces solo players to PUG in the group queue where they simply cannot compete if a real team is playing. I don't care how small the percentage is of people who won't be getting rewards in the group queue is; that they're demanding that average solo players feed group players wins is insulting.

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

Honestly, most of my rage here is due to the fact that they stripped bronze rewards from the solo queue. Yes, people asked for some sort of baseline to discourage trolls and freeloaders but no one asked for the whole bracket to be left out. Hell, by their own metrics they think a 50% win rate is average yet a player with that record can expect to get at most a thank you letter. That forces solo players to PUG in the group queue where they simply cannot compete if a real team is playing. I don't care how small the percentage is of people who won't be getting rewards in the group queue is; that they're demanding that average solo players feed group players wins is insulting.

 

I took a minute to look you up. Based on this, you have 953 Elo, but only 45 wins. If I had to take a guess, I'd assume you have close to maybe only 100ish games played. You claim that the system is broken, yada yada, but the reality is, you have such small amount of games played that your elo isn't even fully representing your skill, or lack tthere of,. There are people with your elo who belong there, people who have 300-400 wins, meaning they've played close to 700 actual games. Maybe you should go out and play more instead of crying on the forums about how unfair life is. You haven't even finished 10 matches for group ranked. Even if you were to lose all 10 matches, you would STILL get the bronze reward.

 

This is the problem with people now a days. You all feel so entitled to everything without putting ANY work in whatsoever. 45 wins. You have 45 freaking wins, but feel like you have the right to complain about a system that takes hundreds of games to even barely reflect your overall skill level.

[Kakisback]

you're right, talent is innate. Meaning you are born with it. Meaning you are lucky to have it. Meaning it is neither earned or deserved. If we're going to base the game around luck we might as well just roll dice.

 

lol

 

lol

 

lol

[Rebel_Guy]

I took a minute to look you up.

This is the problem with people now a days. You all feel so entitled to everything without putting ANY work in whatsoever. 45 wins. You have 45 freaking wins, but feel like you have the right to complain about a system that takes hundreds of games to even barely reflect your overall skill level.

This seems fitting

[SlightlySychotic]

I took a minute to look you up. Based on this, you have 953 Elo, but only 45 wins. If I had to take a guess, I'd assume you have close to maybe only 100ish games played. You claim that the system is broken, yada yada, but the reality is, you have such small amount of games played that your elo isn't even fully representing your skill, or lack tthere of,. There are people with your elo who belong there, people who have 300-400 wins, meaning they've played close to 700 actual games. Maybe you should go out and play more instead of crying on the forums about how unfair life is. You haven't even finished 10 matches for group ranked. Even if you were to lose all 10 matches, you would STILL get the bronze reward.

 

This is the problem with people now a days. You all feel so entitled to everything without putting ANY work in whatsoever. 45 wins. You have 45 freaking wins, but feel like you have the right to complain about a system that takes hundreds of games to even barely reflect your overall skill level.

 

I'm sorry I work evenings during the week, graveyard on the weekends, and can't play for more than three or four hours a week during prime time. On a PvE server, I might add, where my 100 matches play is actually well above average. On Shadowlands even, which happens to have 7 players in the top five across all the advanced classes. And, yes, they play often, usually at the same times I play which means when I have a bad day with matchmaking I have a really bad day.

 

And you know what? If they had drawn the baseline at 1200 -- right where their 50% metric would leave you -- I'd still come up short. But I would be shutting up about it, because that's a fair number to draw the baseline at. Oh, I'd still be upset, but I'd be keeping it to myself, cursing myself for my failing, my shortcomings, like I usually do when I **** up, looking at where I can improve, trying to get better, and gearing up another character to make a second run at it. Because when I lose fairly, I might get mad but I suck it up. But stripping rewards from everyone in solo bronze tier, making it so average solo players get nothing while mediocre group players do? That **** is not fair.

 

I don't give a **** how many more matches someone has. I play as often as I can, whenever the queue is actually popping. You want to talk about entitled? Just what exactly do you do in the real world where you have the time to have 1000 matches in two months?

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

I'm sorry I work evenings during the week, graveyard on the weekends, and can't play for more than three or four hours a week during prime time. On a PvE server, I might add, where my 100 matches play is actually well above average. On Shadowlands even, which happens to have 7 players in the top five across all the advanced classes. And, yes, they play often, usually at the same times I play which means when I have a bad day with matchmaking I have a really bad day.

 

And you know what? If they had drawn the baseline at 1200 -- right where their 50% metric would leave you -- I'd still come up short. But I would be shutting up about it, because that's a fair number to draw the baseline at. Oh, I'd still be upset, but I'd be keeping it to myself, cursing myself for my failing, my shortcomings, like I usually do when I **** up, looking at where I can improve, trying to get better, and gearing up another character to make a second run at it. Because when I lose fairly, I might get mad but I suck it up. But stripping rewards from everyone in solo bronze tier, making it so average solo players get nothing while mediocre group players do? That **** is not fair.

 

I don't give a **** how many more matches someone has. I play as often as I can, whenever the queue is actually popping. You want to talk about entitled? Just what exactly do you do in the real world where you have the time to have 1000 matches in two months?

 

So what you're saying is, you don't have time to put in the effort, so you want an easy to get low hanging reward, despite not having the time to commit to get said reward. Yup, that's what we call entitlement.

[SlightlySychotic]

So what you're saying is, you don't have time to put in the effort, so you want an easy to get low hanging reward, despite not having the time to commit to get said reward. Yup, that's what we call entitlement.

 

No, I just said I play as much as I can and still buy groceries. Demanding people have as much free time as you do in order to even be considered for rewards? That's entitlement. Demanding people people play on a PvP server to get that many matches in that little amount of time in order to even be considered for rewards? That's also entitlement.

[DomiSotto]

Honestly, most of my rage here is due to the fact that they stripped bronze rewards from the solo queue. Yes, people asked for some sort of baseline to discourage trolls and freeloaders but no one asked for the whole bracket to be left out. Hell, by their own metrics they think a 50% win rate is average yet a player with that record can expect to get at most a thank you letter.

 

I am not well-versed in the history of the 1 and S2, but my understanding is that the participatory rewards were only introduced in S3, which caused a problem not so much even with the gearing, but with a false participation when people loaded 10 games without showing any efforts, thus not increasing the participation, and actually potentially eating away on the population of the conscientious players.

 

I do not argue that solo ranked offers nothing but a thrill to a non-gifted individual (and just in case - that's me as well ) I am guessing that BioWARE targets with the reward brackets a certain percentage of the ranked population and they deliberately keep it small (under 10%) to keep it special to at least keep what they have.

 

I agree that the ranked will eventually shrink to non-existence, the way the group-ranked went basically this season already. Hence that attempt to boost participation without aggravating the Old Guard. In other words, 4 new guys can get together and almost definitely get the crystal give-away and will always be placed against the Old Guard that will faceroll them. But nobody would have the reason to cry foul because their accidental team-mate was not doing anything.

 

BioWARE tried to fix Solo Queue by offering the participatory ribbon in S3, and it did not work. They are not doing it again.

 

The bottom-line is, play regs for fun, try ranked for thrills, but trying ranked for rewards is a shortcut to heartbreak.

Edited April 13, 2015 by DomiSotto