The death of the sage in 3.1.2

[DarthKurt]

Yeah, I hate how they have ruined the sage/sorc. I've been playing Balance/Madness since launch and I am ready to unsubscribe... it's just not fun anymore with how badly they have crippled my discipline.

[Darkwords]

Crying here falls on deaf ears as always. Try another game like EQ2 or Rift...WoW if you have never played it is also fun. Don't waste your key strokes here...

[Salakast]

Crying here falls on deaf ears as always. Try another game like EQ2 or Rift...WoW if you have never played it is also fun. Don't waste your key strokes here...

 

None of those games ever adjusted an overtuned spec? Or if they did, instantly caved to player complaints and put it back, even though they knew it was out of balance?

 

I find that hard to believe...

[Icykill_]

My arena damage output has dropped 20%... And I hardly ever used FS in arena, wether ranked or regs... So it's not that

I've gone from being in the top 1-2 with DPS on my team to being the bottom... Even the tanks are getting close to my output... Teams know now that a Sorc can't kill them... So we get tunnelled first

[Salakast]

My arena damage output has dropped 20%... And I hardly ever used FS in arena, wether ranked or regs... So it's not that

I've gone from being in the top 1-2 with DPS on my team to being the bottom... Even the tanks are getting close to my output... Teams know now that a Sorc can't kill them... So we get tunnelled first

 

That makes no sense. If you know someone isn't a threat you leave them 'til last, not focus them first.

[DarthDarkFire]

So, when BW sees the number of people playing Sages dropping, what do you think they'll do to "fix" it? Clearly they are not going to unnerf the class (though I wish they would), but they will need to do something to "balance" the classes.

 

My personal guess is that they will nerf the knight's force leap. That's a fun ability that every knight loves using... And if BW has shown anything with this past patch, it's that they are completely willing to trash an iconic class ability to make another class perform marginally better in PVP.

 

Any thoughts?

[Sotmax]

They could simply nerf class inside pvp only (same as some abilities for ex) .

With more bosses need range in pve (melee classes absolutely nerfed there as it is hard to fight side by side those bosses), they simply have to make changes only inside warzones as those kids crying only there.

In that point i have to agree that 2-3 fq/ls at the same time is a totally team wipe from 30m away so yes. In pvp it has a point. But in pve not.

So the simplest way is that imo.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Sotmax

[hydeto_himura]

Its so sad to read pages and pages of sorcs that cry because their OP class is now on line with the others and they can POWN them anymore pressing 3 buttons. This is a real l2p problem for all of you that are crying, you think that your class is ****? **** off, go play a sentinel or a commando and then talk. ( You have a *********** immune bubble that lasts longer than a MERC can survive with all his DCD on him, so plz, dont talk about useless... its annoying)

 

It sucks not being able to get to top DPS just spamming 1 skill doesnt it? I know, if must be hard for all of you to have to press more keys now to be able to be competent in pvp.

 

As I said before, after this, Assasin will come next, and all the rerollers , which IMO are *********** losers that can't play anything that is not totally OP, will start crying, and after a few weeks of cry they will say , OH **** BW; I will leave this game, or **** BW, now I have to level up the next FOTM class.

 

Guys, less crying and more playing, I see lots of sorcs still doing great in WZ, if you DONT its because you suck.

 

PS: All of this goes for the PVPers, I'm sorry for you PVEers guys if now you do less damage in PVE, but on the possitive side, imo, that makes pve harder and pve is all about challenges, so now you will have to readjust your tactics and find better ways to deal with the stuff.

[Snean]

PS: All of this goes for the PVPers, I'm sorry for you PVEers guys if now you do less damage in PVE, but on the possitive side, imo, that makes pve harder and pve is all about challenges, so now you will have to readjust your tactics and find better ways to deal with the stuff.

And???

If some ppl do pve ... what they need to do after this nerf???

It not makes revan harder ... it was harder for all not bh/tr class. But noe it near inposible to sorcs cbecause they have lowerest dps in game.

 

I see you glass that current server's online drop dramaticaly. Some servers have 50-60 ppl on fleer in prime time.

Most 90-150.

 

Gratz you. Next season you will play only with bh/tr classes on empty servers.

[aaronbeale]

As my main is a Sorc I'm ok with the dps nerf applied to force storm but reducing the channel time and only a 25% (i think it was dont quote me) chance for snare barely make it an AOE ability, I'm better of casting chain lighting really which is what I do. And then to adjust lightning flash also. I am surprised to read so that people are using it in their rotations, I only ever used it when the circumstance called for it myself. Maybe my BH better not get used to his new Rishi legacy jetpack, death from above maybe next....

 

Anyway as they say "swings and round abouts mate", there will be future patches, future bugs, future nerfs & buffs, future disputes between PVE & PVP, hopefully future decent solo content like SoR, hopefully future changes to legacy, level & darkside/lightside options and hopefully a better game.

 

Edited April 14, 2015 by aaronbeale
Typo

[hydeto_himura]

And?? Because some people do pve do I have to suffer a continuous SPAM of a skill, that not only its *********** annoying visually, but also lowers fps by a lot and produces lag, does TONS of damage, in a HUGE area, and slows everybody, just because that skill is useful for pvers?

 

Do you think that PVErs deserve better than PVPers? Or the opposite? I'm sorry for you and your PVE, but I couldnt do PVP properly in this conditions, and still can't because of class unbalance.

 

Now tell me that you CANT do a boss just because of this nerf please. Because PVE is about 8 people, not 1, its about completing challenges in a group of friends or guild, not about measuring who did the most DPS in the raid or the most heals, so I'm sorry if I fail to see how this nerf can be so BAD for you, or how people cry about a class being OP in PVE

 

Please please explain it to me, me as a raider in LOTRO and other MMOs have always done so to 1) get gear exclusive for raiders, 2) to be able to solve boss mechanics and challenges, 3) to have fun with some friends. If one of my group mates or friends is OP what do I *********** care? Its better for me FFS, he will kill the mobs faster, so the group will kill the mobs faster which then implies than I WILL kill the mobs faster. So him being OP doesnt affect me in anything.

 

Now, a group mate being nerfed, does affect me of course, so what? he is nerfed and another one is OP, it compensates, because PVE is not competitive against each other, its a COOP game. PVP is not a COOP game, its a competitive game, and if a class is unbalanced, then the team that wins is the team with most of that class. Which believe me, in case of a sorcerer was terrible, you just can't imagine how fast you can die without being able to do almost anything against it with 6 sorcs spamming FS in a gate.

[hydeto_himura]

aaronbeale you are cool man, I play a sorc too and there are tons of skills to throw that can be equal or better than spamming force storm, I've almost never used an AOE ground target like force storm, or any other class for anything else than interrupt capping, which in pvp I think its their proper use. That Force Storm nonsense spamming times are over, thankfully, and I faiil to see how sorc is a useless class, its still survivable, a lot actually, it has mobility, a lot, it has utility, and it has DMG, IMO its a balanced class with lots of good stuff, which some other classes can't say

[hydeto_himura]

Hell, you can even bubble friends being a DPS, tell me other DPS class than can protect a friendly target from 10k damage without wasting a useful cooldown for himself

[Smuglebunny]

Pve players play easy content that stands there and dies. You should never complain.

 

I cannot imagine, not PVPing. Why even play this game. I see people that say, I just PVE. And what comes to mind is, ARENT YOU BORED?

 

I mainly PVP but still I have done all the PVE content multiple times on multiple toons and its just BOOORING as heck.

 

And all you get for it is gear to do the EXACT SAME THING slightly faster.

 

PVP is different every time. Even if it is the same WZs over and over. When I hear PVE only. I hear "I am a boring drone, my movements are slow, I do the same thing, the same way, all day and continue to find it challenging due to my physical and mental shortcomings."

 

AND NOW, the teeny tiny changes to classes for PVP make it impossible or MUCH MUCH HARDER lol, to do PVE content? How come I as a PVPer have no increased difficulty with PVE content now?

 

The fearful. The weak. The slow. L2handeyecoordinate

 

ps: sages are still great in PVP and PVE, lots of DPS and utility if you can use it.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Smuglebunny

[aaronbeale]

And?? Because some people do pve do I have to suffer a continuous SPAM of a skill, that not only its *********** annoying visually, but also lowers fps by a lot and produces lag, does TONS of damage, in a HUGE area, and slows everybody, just because that skill is useful for pvers?

 

1. "Coughs" I mention PVP a lot hey... I agree with you as I stated. I know "some people do PVE" but realistically "bulk of the people do PVE". Maybe applying a half damage, half channel time & ??% chance of snare buff while in a WZ would have been just as effective similar to relics not procing in a WZ. Just a thought...

Do you think that PVErs deserve better than PVPers? Or the opposite? I'm sorry for you and your PVE, but I couldnt do PVP properly in this conditions, and still can't because of class unbalance.

 

2. I think all should be treated equally and balanced as per AC, but since that can't happen as in my Sorc cant wear heavy armor, looks like better PTS testing should happen is our only solution to. I'm sorry for you and your PVP, but the change really has no effect on my gameplay at all, maybe roll another toon....

 

Now tell me that you CANT do a boss just because of this nerf please. Because PVE is about 8 people, not 1, its about completing challenges in a group of friends or guild, not about measuring who did the most DPS in the raid or the most heals, so I'm sorry if I fail to see how this nerf can be so BAD for you, or how people cry about a class being OP in PVE

 

3. Didn't say I can't fight any particular boss because the nerf and I have no problem completing any group content excluding Ops. I also fail to see why the nerf is bad for Sorcs as I have no issue. Lol your telling me your not looking at the rankings for most DPS, most kills, most heals etc. to see how your going that's how I gave my votes at the end of a WZ....

 

Please please explain it to me, me as a raider in LOTRO and other MMOs have always done so to 1) get gear exclusive for raiders, 2) to be able to solve boss mechanics and challenges, 3) to have fun with some friends. If one of my group mates or friends is OP what do I *********** care? Its better for me FFS, he will kill the mobs faster, so the group will kill the mobs faster which then implies than I WILL kill the mobs faster. So him being OP doesnt affect me in anything.

 

4. Ill be brief, refer 2.

 

Now, a group mate being nerfed, does affect me of course, so what? he is nerfed and another one is OP, it compensates, because PVE is not competitive against each other, its a COOP game. PVP is not a COOP game, its a competitive game, and if a class is unbalanced, then the team that wins is the team with most of that class. Which believe me, in case of a sorcerer was terrible, you just can't imagine how fast you can die without being able to do almost anything against it with 6 sorcs spamming FS in a gate.

 

5. I could imaging the rage at coming into a WZ pre-nerf would be brain splitting wanting to headbutt the screen with 6 Sorcs!!! And like i said previously i agree with you. Umm I read the above paragraph and I'm sorry I need a drink brb.

To say PVE is not competitive and PVP is not co-op I find that laughable, sorry. Isn't that why people are parsing and how much easier is PVP if you co-operate with your team.

 

Anyways...

Edited April 14, 2015 by aaronbeale

[aaronbeale]

aaronbeale you are cool man, I play a sorc too and there are tons of skills to throw that can be equal or better than spamming force storm, I've almost never used an AOE ground target like force storm, or any other class for anything else than interrupt capping, which in pvp I think its their proper use. That Force Storm nonsense spamming times are over, thankfully, and I faiil to see how sorc is a useless class, its still survivable, a lot actually, it has mobility, a lot, it has utility, and it has DMG, IMO its a balanced class with lots of good stuff, which some other classes can't say

 

Just being a smart*** mate, Sorcs Rule!!

[DarthDarkFire]

In my opinion, the proper use of force quake/storm was as a ground target Aoe for clearing groups of standard/week pve mobs leaving only strong mobs, which should be cleared using other abilities. I honestly don't think I ever used it in pvp, so I can't speak for how "op" it was. Each person enjoys their own playing style. I personally don't enjoy pvp (at least not in MMOs). But if the problem was in pvp, I don't see why the nerf wasn't limited to pvp.

 

I honestly don't mind the damage decrease, but removing the snare and cutting the channel time makes it essentially useless for clearing mobs. My suggestion would be to restore its original channel time, and let it snare standard/week opponents. That way it's still balanced for pvp, and still viable in pve.

 

And before anyone says "just cast it twice", ground target aoes take a moment to place, and just smart casting it basically turns it into a single target spell, which dramatically reduces its utility. Force quake already took about a 1/4 second to start doing damage, which now happens twice as often. Plus the shorter channel time means standard/week enemies are far less likely to get and stay stunned. Not to mention it just feels clunky now.

 

As far as the other Dps abilities that sages have, it doesn't matter how much single target damage you can do when your up against a mixed mob and you have to stop dealing damage to heal yourself. For solo gamers, myself included, this is a big problem. I don't want to have to heal myself up after every single fight just because I can't take out trash mobs fast enough and don't have the health/defense of other classes. It makes questing feel slow and boring.

 

Hmmmm.... That gives me a thought. Perhaps the reason that this seems to be upset a lot of people and not others is that there are 2 types of people who play Sages/Sorcs. 1. Pvp players who just like playing strong classes 2. Pve players who (like me) use the "op" sage abilities to get through the boring parts of pve so that we can enjoy the rich environments and storylines. Thoughts?

[Camelpockets]

Hmm... pulled 3.8k on Underlurker (Just SM QQ) with 101% force accuracy.

 

Gg m8. Sorc nerf too real.

 

http://swtor-parser.elasticbeanstalk.com/parser/view/21847/15

Edited April 14, 2015 by Camelpockets

[Snean]

Now tell me that you CANT do a boss just because of this nerf please. Because PVE is about 8 people, not 1, its about completing challenges in a group of friends or guild, not about measuring who did the most DPS in the raid or the most heals, so I'm sorry if I fail to see how this nerf can be so BAD for you, or how people cry about a class being OP in PVE

i not told about force storm. i told about -5% crit chanse most skills, -5% bolt damage, +3 sec flash cd.

i told about -400 dps to single target.

please tell me then sorc was op in pve in 3.x???

pt/merc/vg/comm yes. all team do 1st kill in 8bh/tr.

ALL

Sorc was only on 3rd place. Only 2 sorc/sage in top 50 dps ... and no one in top 20.

Now sorc lose ~10% and become 8th dps from 8 class in pve.

Why you so happy???

How many ppl on ur fleet in prime time??? How many ur friend lose game???

 

I'm so sorry I did my agent 2nd prof.

I will make him 60 lvl imperial ageng and go rwz.

would love to be with you as a team.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Snean

[Ryuku-sama]

i not told about force storm. i told about -5% crit chanse most skills, -5% bolt damage, +3 sec flash cd.

i told about -400 dps to single target.

please tell me then sorc was op in pve in 3.x???

pt/merc/vg/comm yes. all team do 1st kill in 8bh/tr.

ALL

Sorc was only on 3rd place. Only 2 sorc/sage in top 50 dps ... and no one in top 20.

Now sorc lose ~10% and become 8th dps from 8 class in pve.

Why you so happy???

How many ppl on ur fleet in prime time??? How many ur friend lose game???

 

I'm so sorry I did my agent 2nd prof.

I will make him 60 lvl imperial ageng and go rwz.

would love to be with you as a team.

 

For another time. LIGHTNING IS A RANGED BURST DPS SPEC. IT IS MEANT TO PARSE AMONG THE LOWEST SPEC IN GAME... Along with Arsenal and Marksman... Which it is now doing. Stop crying about Lightning being brought in line.

[Snean]

For another time. LIGHTNING IS A RANGED BURST DPS SPEC. IT IS MEANT TO PARSE AMONG THE LOWEST SPEC IN GAME... Along with Arsenal and Marksman... Which it is now doing. Stop crying about Lightning being brought in line.

Okey ...

THEN UP MADNESS DPS TO MERC OP DPS ...

Why MADNESS has lowerest dps ???? Up it.

 

What all Pvper's say then????

[Ryuku-sama]

Okey ...

THEN UP MADNESS DPS TO MERC OP DPS ...

Why MADNESS has lowerest dps ???? Up it.

 

What all Pvper's say then????

 

We know Madness is too low. But no need to whine about Lightning well deserved nerf. Madness doesn't need much.. And buffing too much would end up with a stronger Hatred.

[Snean]

We know Madness is too low. But no need to whine about Lightning well deserved nerf. Madness doesn't need much.. And buffing too much would end up with a stronger Hatred.

i was in corruption/madness all time before 3.0.

only weakness of madness spec make me lighting.

now i useless in new hm ops. because all sorc dps spec is lowerest dps spec in game.

 

what ur main class?

Edited April 14, 2015 by Snean

[Sindariel]

For another time. LIGHTNING IS A RANGED BURST DPS SPEC. IT IS MEANT TO PARSE AMONG THE LOWEST SPEC IN GAME... Along with Arsenal and Marksman... Which it is now doing. Stop crying about Lightning being brought in line.

 

For another time. Lightning is the only competitive spec sorcerers currently have. Mercs and Snipers have viable alternatives. We don't.

And there's no sign that Madness gets some treatment anytime soon.

 

We know Madness is too low. But no need to whine about Lightning well deserved nerf. Madness doesn't need much.. And buffing too much would end up with a stronger Hatred.

 

Hatred has nothing to do with Madness. There are no shared specs anymore and there's no reason to balance them identically.

[Ryuku-sama]

For another time. Lightning is the only competitive spec sorcerers currently have. Mercs and Snipers have viable alternatives. We don't.

And there's no sign that Madness gets some treatment anytime soon.

 

Hatred has nothing to do with Madness. There are no shared specs anymore and there's no reason to balance them identically.

 

Buff Madness DoTs and you end up with an immortal spec in PvP... As OP as Hatred is right now. Madness needs single targets buff on Wrath and Force Lightning along with a better energy management through either an off-GCD Consumption, Lightning Burns back on Lightning Strike or a cheaper Force Lightning. Buffing DoTs, Leech, Death Field would make Madness too strong in PvP.

Madness will get its turn. They already gave us a small buff with 3.1.2. Giving too much to Madness, with the huge amount of self-heals the spec have would be far from a good move.

 

what ur main class?

 

Since 3.0.. I've played at max level, Rage and Madness in PvP mainly. Madness is far from weak.