On BH and the Numbers for Blood Hunt (HM) First boss

[FerkWork]

Intro: Due to the fact that it is repeatable content and gear drops I believe that in the hierarchy of difficulty HM FP's are above Tacticals and Below SM Ops in difficulty. For BH BW has disagreed with me. Well technically.

 

For the first boss with its hard enrage at ~3:20 DPS have to be on their game and even the tanks.

Using a strategy of burning 3 waves of adds and then ignoring 4th and burning boss. Numbers below are what each DPS needs:

 

DPS for each individual DPS (including 1000 DPS from Tank): 3,186 DPS

DPS (1500 Tank): 2,986 DPS

 

(Take in mind DPS from tank will vary as PT tanks will have more uptime due to hydraulic overdrives)

 

Healers adding dmg may give a slight variation but you get the idea. That DPS requirement is bigger than Underlurkers while having a gear req. lower than it. My question to BW is why in the fact that the other HM's are no where near as difficult and are quite easy. This isn't a QQ thread as I'm curious as to why this particular FP and first 2 bosses differ in difficulty to the 3rd one and the other HM FP's. One concern is that the risk vs reward isn't matching for this Fp. I have completed it the first week it came out (Now give me back my achievements BW ) but find no reason to jump back in the FP for the loot even vanity items is meh and very low drop rate. Those who may find the rewards to their gear level may not be able to complete it. Considering that you nerfed the heck out of the already easy Manaan FP, do you have any plans to do something about it.

 

I propose 2 solutions:

1) Make it the LI of SoR and have lockout but drop some Resurrected gear and buff last boss to the first 2 difficulty.

2) Bring it in line with the Dps and Hps needed for the other ones.

 

Either is fine. To me the most important issue its sitting in this limbo where all HM are this difficulty and BH first 2 bosses are different but both offer the same rewards and in the same GF section. This needs to be rectified.

 

Edit: Fixed numbers

Edited April 9, 2015 by FerkWork

[azudelphi]

I am a bit confused on the DPS numbers you quoted. Is that the required DPS from all DPS or each DPS? Edited April 3, 2015 by azudelphi

[FerkWork]

I am a bit confused on the DPS numbers you quoted. Is that the required DPS from all DPS or each DPS?

Sorry, Per DPS so both DPS need to be doing those numbers.

[azudelphi]

Sorry, Per DPS so both DPS need to be doing those numbers.

 

Thank you for the clarification. That number does seem a bit on the high side for a flashpoint.

[FerkWork]

Thank you for the clarification. That number does seem a bit on the high side for a flashpoint.

 

 

To put it in perspective:

The Lurker requires only 2.7k -2.5k DPS per DPS and lower with 5 DPS.

[FerkWork]

Edit Recalculating numbers as calculated for 3 adds instead of 2. #fail #needtowakeupbeforeposting

[Shwarzchild]

This is cool. Thank you for putting this together Ferk. I'd love to see the requirements for Joss and Valk, too. And, there's no question about how right you are when it comes to the rewards this drops. I have a hard time believing players in rishi maze gear can even get close to completing this. They'd have to be the 1 percent of the 1 percent. I'm sure people in like nightmare 186, or hardmode 180 gear could swing high numbers, but sheesh. I said the same thing as you when I cleared it: "Let's do the bonus as well, because I don't want to do this again."

[FireFoxed]

This is cool. Thank you for putting this together Ferk. I'd love to see the requirements for Joss and Valk, too. And, there's no question about how right you are when it comes to the rewards this drops. I have a hard time believing players in rishi maze gear can even get close to completing this. They'd have to be the 1 percent of the 1 percent. I'm sure people in like nightmare 186, or hardmode 180 gear could swing high numbers, but sheesh. I said the same thing as you when I cleared it: "Let's do the bonus as well, because I don't want to do this again."

 

As far as I know Jos and Valk have no enrage so it's all a matter of surviving the phase when they're both down (unless the group isn't capable of handling them 1 at a time... in which case they wouldn't even get to that phase).

 

I agree and really wish BH would go into a separate GF queue with improved rewards like the old lost island. Also increase the difficulty of torch.

Edited April 3, 2015 by FireFoxed

[Bachannal]

I have run all of the other HM FP's...BH is by far the worst in terms of difficulty, and mostly from the 1st boss. It's ridiculous...everything about what you need to topple that boss is ridiculous.

 

The other ones are straight up EASY by comparison. Shoot, even the bonus boss on Rakata Prime that everyone cried about being so hard is a cakewalk compared to the 1st boss in Blood Hunt HM.

 

IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

[FerkWork]

As far as I know Jos and Valk have no enrage so it's all a matter of surviving the phase when they're both down (unless the group isn't capable of handling them 1 at a time... in which case they wouldn't even get to that phase).

 

I agree and really wish BH would go into a separate GF queue with improved rewards like the old lost island. Also increase the difficulty of torch.

 

 

This is true. The optimal thing to do would run 2 tanks and 2 heals . It would last long but your chance of success would increase.

[QuadraticAmoeba]

So, I have only cleared Blood Hunt with a premade. I don't know the tank dps, but I did 3800 on my VG and my sage dps guildie did 4100. The worst part was the healing, my sage healer guildie did 3800 ehps ... which is way more than any SM op and possible a few HM fights.

 

EDIT: all 4 of us were full 192 min-max ops gear, so no idea how pugs are supposed to clear it

Edited April 6, 2015 by QuadraticAmoeba
Updated numbers based on DPS and eHPS when boss died, we cleaned up a few adds after

[Shwarzchild]

So, I have only cleared Blood Hunt with a premade. I don't know the tank dps, but I did 3800 on my VG and my sage dps guildie did 4100. The worst part was the healing, my sage healer guildie did 3800 ehps ... which is way more than any SM op and possible a few HM fights.

 

EDIT: all 4 of us were full 192 min-max ops gear, so no idea how pugs are supposed to clear it

 

They don't outside of a sheer miracle. I'm pretty sure the suggested gear for that is like 178...which blows my mind. Although I will say, that once you get past furball it's actually pretty easy to beat j and v, and obviously torch. Just furball man. I'm pretty sure he's harder than both sparky and malaphar in hardmode. If I could change Furball at all i would have him throw out about 6-7 blue circles, but the circle would pop up on the ground much like UL's red circles. I'd reduce health of the adds by about 5-10 percent, and I'd extend his enrage maybe 30 seconds. That would put that fight more in line with what I think J and V are at.

[Mowermanx]

They don't outside of a sheer miracle. I'm pretty sure the suggested gear for that is like 178...which blows my mind. Although I will say, that once you get past furball it's actually pretty easy to beat j and v, and obviously torch. Just furball man. I'm pretty sure he's harder than both sparky and malaphar in hardmode. If I could change Furball at all i would have him throw out about 6-7 blue circles, but the circle would pop up on the ground much like UL's red circles. I'd reduce health of the adds by about 5-10 percent, and I'd extend his enrage maybe 30 seconds. That would put that fight more in line with what I think J and V are at.

 

I don't think you would need to alter the enrage if your other 2 suggestions were implemented.

[Soul_of_Flames]

All these stats aside, lets look at this from a melee perspective as well. #BWhatesmelee

 

Ranged adds + melee DPS + devastating circle mechanics = very large repair bill.

 

The thing with ranged adds in a circle fight is that they have a tendency to stand in the circles. So if you're a melee DPS, good luck meeting your enrage when you spend half of your allotted add-killing time trying to avoid the circle it's standing it.

[Bachannal]

All these stats aside, lets look at this from a melee perspective as well. #BWhatesmelee

 

Ranged adds + melee DPS + devastating circle mechanics = very large repair bill.

 

The thing with ranged adds in a circle fight is that they have a tendency to stand in the circles. So if you're a melee DPS, good luck meeting your enrage when you spend half of your allotted add-killing time trying to avoid the circle it's standing it.

 

Seriously. My 1st time through I was on my Vanguard...and since you have to be close to use attacks like Shockstrike, that means you basically have to sit inside of circles to do a proper rotation. Insta-kill. No healer can or should be expected to heal through that, and I can only imagine how much worse it is for a pure melee class like a Sent.

 

One thing is for sure...the BW devs were smokin' some seriously good ganj when they came up with some of the mechanics for 3.0 (and newer) FP's & OP's.

 

"Oh hey...let's have all of the adds stand IN the blue circles of death and see how everyone does!"

 

"Awesome - now let's have the 3rd boss in an OP infinitely harder than all other bosses in the OP - see how mad they all get!"

 

Etc.

[midianlord]

The main problem I've been having with that one is the usual server-position update BS, IE I get rubber-banded back into an AE even though my client renders me as having been well out of it. Jumping to update position doesn't always --or even often-- work with all those telegraphs flying about.

 

That's notwithstanding sometimes being caught with nowhere to go.

 

Possible solution:

 

Slightly reduce the number of AEs, along with the adds' HP --they seem awfully tough for silvers even in mostly 192 gear + augments.

 

The other thing I wonder about is the enrage timer: Looks like about 3m25s, isn't that a bit tight for an FP boss?

 

I'd like to think I'll get this ****er down eventually, though.

[Mowermanx]

The other thing I wonder about is the enrage timer: Looks like about 3m25s, isn't that a bit tight for an FP boss?

 

The floor spam and adds HP are the only reason the enrage might be an an issue, I feel addressing either one of these and this fight would change enough that the enrage would be fine as it is.

[FerkWork]

The floor spam and adds HP are the only reason the enrage might be an an issue, I feel addressing either one of these and this fight would change enough that the enrage would be fine as it is.

 

With a PT you can usually grapple one of the adds and AOE them down.

Fun fact: Only Ops boss that comes to that enrage timer that I have found is NiM Nefra at 3:10.

 

Also, bumping as BW has remained silent about this and hasn't addressed it in the patch. Maybe it will be addressed in 3.2 but it's in a weird limbo where BoR is quite easy compared to BH.