Ratajack Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I agree that things have to change, but my opinion is still the same as it always has been. Allow everyone to trade and mail. Seems like a basic feature to me that everyone needs. Add a price limit for character unlocks on the gtn. I mean seriously the ops passes cost about the max credits a f2p can carry and escrows are not cheap either. There should be an upper limit on these so those f2p can pay for an ops pass and still be able to pay their repair bills! These are actually my main 2 issues. About the game itself, I don't think it will die in 3.0. Population seems stable and my server is busy as always. I see no reason for price limits for anything on the GTN, let alone the unlocks. If a F2P or preferred player wants to purchase something on the GTN and the price is over their credit cap, then I guess they may have to subscribe for a short time to remove that credit cap and purchase the unlocks they desire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XiamaraSimi Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) Freeloaders need to stop demanding more free stuff. This. Just like the woman at the grocery store demanding to be given steak instead because she doesnt like chicken when they were giving out chicken samples, BE HAPPY WITH WHAT YOU ARE GETTING FOR FREE/ARENT PAYING FOR Ok scrap the mail, trading should still be basic though. This is to attempt to hinder credit sellers. If you really need someone to give you something, they can still send it to you in a mail, you might not be able to send things in the mail, but you can receive items that way. Edited March 30, 2015 by XiamaraSimi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 This. Just like the woman at the grocery store demanding to be given steak instead because she doesnt like chicken when they were giving out chicken samples, BE HAPPY WITH WHAT YOU ARE GETTING FOR FREE/ARENT PAYING FOR Or like the mice in this game who were given another cookie (a BONUS of a double XP weekend) and are not satisfied. A few of the complaints I've seen have included "it's not 12XP, so it's not good enough", "it didn't last long enough", "this weekend is not good for me (for whatever reason)". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSchuyler Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Ah, the inmates wanting to run the asylum again. Fact is this isn't a democracy. You don't get a vote. You have a choice: Play or don't. That's it. Neither BW or EA or the investors asked for your opinion. If you are correct collectively, the game will fail. The point is: It's not your decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tudenom Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I would spend more money on this game if it had a more flexible subscription plan. I'm sure there are a lot of older players like myself who have the cash but don't have a lot of time to spare, so a $15 per month subscription plan has low value per dollar spent. For example, I might only get 3 hours a week play time, so $15 buys me 12 hrs in game. That's a crappy deal. Now if I could buy daily passes, or maybe buy playtime by the hour, then I would do that, but there isn't so Bioware gets nothing at all. Right now I'm limping by with preferred status and buying my unlocks with cash, but I still have limits on what I can do at end game. Once again, I'm forces to buy a weekly pass for a single operation that is only a mater of a few hours play time, it's too damn expensive for what I get out of it. I don't really buy the concept that the credit cap is there to stop gold farmers. They have plenty of ways to get credits passed around and are still very active with the limit in place. Preferred players still have a cap of 350,000 credits which means the majority of unlocks are beyond our reach. The cap is strictly there to force players to subscribe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Right now I'm limping by with preferred status and buying my unlocks with cash, but I still have limits on what I can do at end game. Once again, I'm forces to buy a weekly pass for a single operation that is only a mater of a few hours play time, it's too damn expensive for what I get out of it. ummmm did they change the forum posting rules and I missed it that someone claiming to be preferred can post here now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tudenom Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 ummmm did they change the forum posting rules and I missed it that someone claiming to be preferred can post here now? I bought the $40 package so I'm technically a sub for now. The package was a good deal so I went for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 The only thing I would point out regarding a refresh beyond where they are now is this. When games are developed they are designed with a specific revenue target in mind. This doesn't just go to launch but projecting future revenues. A game designed from the ground up to be f2p or B2p will usually have a smaller initial budget and smaller continuing development budget. This way the feast or famine dynamic of the micro transaction system can be mitigated. A similar thing goes for b2p games like GW2. They design the game around box sales profits rather than a consistent cash flow. When a game goes from sub based to a f2p hybrid like SWTOR they are walking a fine line. So the question is this. How far do you think they can "refresh" the model and still give you what you want? Voice acting doesn't come cheap...add to that the "normal" MMO content people expect (more quests, FPs and OPs etc) also all cost money. So yeah people may say "I don't like paying for this or that" paying for those things is what gives them the revenue that in turn justifies the budget they ask EA for. So there can be consequences and one should want to tread lightly there. ESO's model (mentioned early on) really isn't going to be all that different...a "premium member" is going to get bonuses on exp, gold etc. So instead of saying a f2p player gets reduced experience they say a premium member gets a bonus... Semantics not reality imo. A f2p player does not have free access to all of ESOs downloadable content (DLCs) in the end it seems to have more similarities than differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iankalo Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 If they remove the current 200-350k credits restriction , nobody would subscribe again. Im a sub only cuz I want to buy some cool stuff and 350k is not enough. There is no point to sub otherwise. You can unlock everything for credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNevet Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 If SWTOR wants to remain competitive, they're going to have to at least match what ESO has done. Make the game cost $50 and then no subscription fee. Remove most of the restrictions, leaving only the ones that are absolutely necessary to help prevent botting and gold farming. I play both games and since ESO did this, that game is absolutely bumping. I run a guild there and most of the players who had left have come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unchosen Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 The restrictions will do one of two thing make you sub or make you quit. That's basically how I see it. I think the Sub/Pref./F2P model could be improved to benefit BW and all players. But it has to start with improving things for subscribers. If they made some significant changes to improve the subscriber experience, they could then focus on creating more incentives for non-subs to buy CC. But I doubt that BIoWare is capable of knowing what to do to make SWTOR as profitable or as popular as it could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unchosen Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 You can unlock everything for credits. Keep dreaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 If SWTOR wants to remain competitive, they're going to have to at least match what ESO has done. Make the game cost $50 and then no subscription fee. Remove most of the restrictions, leaving only the ones that are absolutely necessary to help prevent botting and gold farming. I play both games and since ESO did this, that game is absolutely bumping. I run a guild there and most of the players who had left have come back. Using ESO as a point of comparison could arguably be seen as an apples and oranges comparison. Even the developers before launch (Matt Firoi specifically) referred to it as "This is more a multiplayer Elder Scrolls game than an MMO." It shows too. Really it is Elder Scrolls with a multiplayer option with it heavy instancing etc. (Getting all your guikdies in the same instance map is "interesting" to say the least and really why bother because grouping up for quests really isn't well supported.). Its kinda like what SWTOR faced at launch. SWTOR as well felt like TOR with a multiplayer option however over time they MADE it a true MMORPG. As such I just don't think comparing the two games. Most people I know who when say MMOer when asked "what kind of a gamer are you" stopped playing ESO early on. On top of that you do now ESO is charging for DLCs for all but non-subs right? That they are giving an exp bonus to sub's (they just word it differently). Also if your sub lapses you lose access to the DLCs (though you keep the gear earned from them). Additionally you get addition coin bonus. While people will say "crafted stuff is better you will still be able to buy " convenience items" such as repair kits, soul gems, as well as health and magicka potions for cash. Additionally they will be selling weapons and equipment...simply not "powerful weapons and equipment." All they are doing is what any f2p game does, monkey around with things. You may find SWTORs model worse. I know people who the minute they see any practical items in the shop, regardless of whether you call them "simply a convenience" item or not would say it is at least just as bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I would spend more money on this game if it had a more flexible subscription plan. I'm sure there are a lot of older players like myself who have the cash but don't have a lot of time to spare, so a $15 per month subscription plan has low value per dollar spent. For example, I might only get 3 hours a week play time, so $15 buys me 12 hrs in game. That's a crappy deal. Now if I could buy daily passes, or maybe buy playtime by the hour, then I would do that, but there isn't so Bioware gets nothing at all. Right now I'm limping by with preferred status and buying my unlocks with cash, but I still have limits on what I can do at end game. Once again, I'm forces to buy a weekly pass for a single operation that is only a mater of a few hours play time, it's too damn expensive for what I get out of it. I don't really buy the concept that the credit cap is there to stop gold farmers. They have plenty of ways to get credits passed around and are still very active with the limit in place. Preferred players still have a cap of 350,000 credits which means the majority of unlocks are beyond our reach. The cap is strictly there to force players to subscribe. $15 for 12 hours of game time is far better deal than $15 for a two hour movie, wouldn't you say? If this game were subscription only, would you subscribe to play for those 12 hours a month? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I meant the unlocks you can get from the Cartel Market. Often enough a guild member of mine asks me to buy stuff for him. Or better said, he gives me money from multiple characters so I can buy an unlock for him. I mean that is just wrong! There should be an upper limit on those unlocks so f2p can actually enjoy all the features without spending all their credits to 1 unlock.. Why not just tell him to sub? Really, that is the whole point, if those limits were not there, then no one would sub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rankyn Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Translation: I don't want to pay for a subscription anymore so give me more stuff for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 $15 for 12 hours of game time is far better deal than $15 for a two hour movie, wouldn't you say? If this game were subscription only, would you subscribe to play for those 12 hours a month? See this is the issue generated by the term f2p. People actually don't think about stuff like this. They see that you can do f2p and for some twisted reason think that it is not just marketing bs of a for profit company. They have "free" in their minds and so any subscription fee is seen as to much regardless of the reality. If you break down 15 buck's for 12 hours that's 1.25 an hour. vs 4.25 or more per hour for a two hour movie, 2 or more for a pay per veiw movie. But people don't break it down, they saw free to play writtten down somewhere and so they stop thinking objectively. They take a marketing spin term and that term informs a subjective impression of value and thus blinds them to the objective. As an example...I wonder how many f2p customers bother at the end of the year to do the math. By this I mean add up the amount of money they spent buying the stuff ala carte that a subscriber gets for free. I know for a fact that many a f2p customer spends MORE than the subscriber does. That is actually the entire point of f2p, to get players to spend more money, even if just a little, with them not realizing it because it is spread out over multiple transactions. Add in the whales and it gets even crazier. I know people who are f2p BUT for some silly reason buy the 5500 cartel coin package once a month and these people aren't even called "whales" in the industry. Some of these players complain the sub is two much. Even if they had a year long sub but played for only 6 months of the year they would have paid less money hour for hour than they do using the cartel method. Logic and gamers simply don't coexist as often as they should I am afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaesha Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I don't have all that much time to play but that didn't stop be from getting a sub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) Why not just tell him to sub? Really, that is the whole point, if those limits were not there, then no one would sub. But not necessarily for the reason you think. Game developers like predictable revenues. Sub's are perfect for that. An MMO is not like a grocery store or a gas station...nothing a f2p MMO provides is a necessity. As such micro transactions are not predictable. You will have quarterly cycles of feast and famine. The subs (especially the long term or auto renewing sub) help mitigate that cycle and make the revenue less spikey. Bean counters HATE trying to determine annual budgets on revenues that can spike, often for little rhyme or reason. More than a few of the f2p players spend more money than a subscriber even BUT even with that the spikey nature of the model makes a game with a budget like SWTOR very resistant to rely on it. Edited March 31, 2015 by Ghisallo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 However, I just don't understand the experience point penalties. Once, a f2p(preferred) hits level 20 they are zapped with a 25% experience penalty. So, add this to the no rested experience, it cam be quite a laborious grind fest in the 30's and 40's. I think this is one point where people either decide to pay or play very rarely. To be blunt? I would make it free up to lvl 20. You want to play after lvl 20? Pay, period. I just don't understand the thinking that says, "aww, someone doesn't want to pay anything, but they want the whole game for free, and no "grind" issues". Bleah, bunch of nonsense if you ask me. Pay up if you play, if you like the game, compensate the company that makes it. No excuses. If you don't have the money, then you shouldn't be spending your time playing computer games anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) For F2P, expansions featuring increased level caps should allow F2P to level to the previous expansion's level cap once it is released. This way F2P players can see the game but stay (currently 5 levels) behind the players who pay. They would still have the pay wall for OPs, FPs, WZs and GSF, but they would be granted access to stuff like the Section X HK-51 companion quest chain, Makeb & Oricon vendors for rep gear, and all planetary heroics ... up to the previously released expansion's max level. For subs, why not expand the 2X XP weekends and special events to include similar bolsters in Cartel Market & faction rep buying power? In essence a 2X XP weekend would give 50% off of ALL cartel market item purchases for subscribers. The Bounty Week, Gree, Rakghoul & Life Day events would merit subscribers with 2X rep and quest bonuses. This combination could bring more players out without anyone getting penalized for their account status imho. Might even entice more F2P players to subscribe. Just a thought ... [edit] I've been here since alpha and have maintained a sub since early access. So I'm referencing old school F2P limitations from a couple years ago. If F2P is already allowed on Makeb, Oricon & CZ then I apologize. Edited March 31, 2015 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higginsjf Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I feel yes they should look at it but well they! Just looking at the hole per oder and again with the last deal they had on .It looks like there pushing for subs. But other then the you tube add and the face book posts not seen any other marketing of Swtor at all and being a sub already. But think they need to look at there sales adds for starts look at the last oct to now having only one new thing but still having the Rise of the Hutt Cartel Expansion in with Shadow of Revan and no other way to get the new one with out paying for one you already payed for when it was the new one back then. So I feel there should be a better break down or a Ccoin off set for the 9.99 cost per Shadow of Revan. Cause if you buy this your paying in my book 2 times for the Rise of the Hutt Cartel Expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 no other way to get the new one with out paying for one you already payed for when it was the new one back then. You can't also get from level 50 to level 60 without RotHC. That's why RotHC is included in Shadow of Revan purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I would spend more money on this game if it had a more flexible subscription plan. I'm sure there are a lot of older players like myself who have the cash but don't have a lot of time to spare, so a $15 per month subscription plan has low value per dollar spent. For example, I might only get 3 hours a week play time, so $15 buys me 12 hrs in game. That's a crappy deal. So $1.20 an hour is a "crappy deal"? And you claim to have money? My time is worth north of $50/hr, the cost of the game is chump change. I'd pay triple if it provided three times the content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I feel yes they should look at it but well they! Just looking at the hole per oder and again with the last deal they had on .It looks like there pushing for subs. But other then the you tube add and the face book posts not seen any other marketing of Swtor at all and being a sub already. But think they need to look at there sales adds for starts look at the last oct to now having only one new thing but still having the Rise of the Hutt Cartel Expansion in with Shadow of Revan and no other way to get the new one with out paying for one you already payed for when it was the new one back then. So I feel there should be a better break down or a Ccoin off set for the 9.99 cost per Shadow of Revan. Cause if you buy this your paying in my book 2 times for the Rise of the Hutt Cartel Expansion. ^ Your way of thinking is common, but it really makes no logical sense. But frankly, lots of people don't use logic. RotHC has been free for subs for awhile, you're paying $20 for SoR, not $10 for each. Ignore RotHC, pay your $20 for SoR, and be a happy customer. Or don't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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