Conquest: Galactic Scheme's

[StarSquirrel]

All she has to do to get behind him if he does this is roll and shoot. When he has the jetpack on he won't be agile at all because of physics. His heavy armor will be a huge detriment to any attempts to turn and if she dodges, which is what her agility score is good for. She can easily land a shot sending him to the ground.

Haha, except he has a personal shield and beskar. She can't land a shot on the back, which is the point here. She lacks the weapons/skills necessary to win a duel like this. With a jetpack all he has to do is roll (not turn around) and climb to present his front to her even if she gets behind. That is part of why the jetpack equalizes the agility factor by a great margin.

 

Also note, she lacks any real solid defences. He needs one hit, whereas she can land many hits to him and he can keep fighting. Heck the few vulnerable parts of his armor in the back are 90% in non-lethal areas of the body. Those are wounds his bacta and hormone injectors can easily compensate for. Meanwhile, if she tires (which she will) and makes a single mistake she is dead.

[karadron]

Haha, except he has a personal shield and beskar. She can't land a shot on the back, which is the point here. She lacks the weapons/skills necessary to win a duel like this. With a jetpack all he has to do is roll (not turn around) and climb to present his front to her even if she gets behind. That is part of why the jetpack equalizes the agility factor by a great margin.

 

Also note, she lacks any real solid defences. He needs one hit, whereas she can land many hits to him and he can keep fighting. Heck the few vulnerable parts of his armor in the back are 90% in non-lethal areas of the body. Those are wounds his bacta and hormone injectors can easily compensate for. Meanwhile, if she tires (which she will) and makes a single mistake she is dead.

 

So his jetpack is made of beskar too? And his shield is always activated? Check the joints on any armor, their vulnerable. Rolling for him isn't really an option he lacks agility, sure he can try it but it won't work as intended, happened to Aliria in an IC and got called out on it by Sil.

 

There is no way he has injectors covering every part of his body, and then he would have to activate them. Even then if he ends up face first in the ground, she can just lay into him while he's down. Shield gone, bacta used up as he struggles to get up.

 

If anyone runs out of energy it's going to be Ayan, Rynne has better physicality by 2R, lighter armor. She'll be expending less energy per second throughout this encounter. Ayan's massive armor plus average physicality leave him on the minus side in a long encounter.

[Silenceo]

Few key things of note in regards to Ayan's equipment:

 

Armor

"Armor forged of beskar could withstand blunt force, strikes from a lightsaber, and repeated blasterfire, though the force of the impact still transferred in part to the wearer.[9]"

 

Jetpack

"In flight, directional exhaust nozzles controlled the user's flight path, while a gyrostabilizer counterbalanced the jetpack's velocity for descent. Jetpacks were considered impractical for public use: downsides to the jetpack's agility included the device's thirty-kilo weight, and the fact that most models could carry enough fuel for around twenty bursts of thrust."

 

Shield

"As with most deflector systems, shields required large amounts of energy in the form of energy cells or a portable generator. Some models featured rechargeable energy cells. While the generator provided the most efficiency, it was larger and bulkier. The power requirements meant that shields tended to be used only when combat was expected.

 

Another feature of personal shields was ablation, that is, the shield weakened as it absorbed damage until it either was deactivated, failed, or recharged. As the shields absorbed energy, they tended to become extremely hot. Due to the limitations of personal deflector shields, they were usually used in tandem with other forms of protection."

 

Flame Thrower

" For all their power, flame projectors had a key weakness. Because they employed volatile chemicals under pressure, the weapon could sometimes explode if damaged.[1] "

 

Conclusion: Ayan is not going to be zipping around as some of you think he will... Heck, I am surprised the Jetpack can still lift him... Not to mention that all of these gadgets, add additional weak spots that if hit, can cause lethal harm to the wielder.

 

(Not a fan of X vs 1 debates...)

[StarSquirrel]

So his jetpack is made of beskar too? And his shield is always activated? Check the joints on any armor, their vulnerable. Rolling for him isn't really an option he lacks agility, sure he can try it but it won't work as intended, happened to Aliria in an IC and got called out on it by Sil.

 

There is no way he has injectors covering every part of his body, and then he would have to activate them. Even then if he ends up face first in the ground, she can just lay into him while he's down. Shield gone, bacta used up as he struggles to get up.

 

If anyone runs out of energy it's going to be Ayan, Rynne has better physicality by 2R, lighter armor. She'll be expending less energy per second throughout this encounter. Ayan's massive armor plus average physicality leave him on the minus side in a long encounter.

-The shield doesn't have to always be active, but when he knows she's going to get behind him (like any normal human would in this context) he'd activate it until he can see her again obviously

- I'm unsure of the Jetpack but I, like you, would assume not. That said, shield...

- That is what I was saying about the gaps in his armor. Getting shot in the joints might hurt like hell if she managed to land a hit, but they are such a small target that the most likely scenario is a glancing shot. Even a direct shot on a being this muscular and physically large would be unlikely to disable it, not to mention (as I've said previously) that he has bacta and hormone injections to block out pain and keep him going.

- maybe, but it will certainly take his vulnerable parts out of her line of fire one way or another. However I contest that in TCW we saw Obi-wan who we have no reason to believe has ever used a jetpack, successfully maneuver in one while Ayan has far more experience with this set-up (note, he's been in this armor for at least a year by this point in the game alone. I can't fathom that none of that time was spent perfecting his technique or at least getting comfortable with the pack.)

- What? You last point has to be a joke. For one, the idea of him being on the ground is laughable in this instance. He's far stronger than she is and can easily handle the pathetic firepower she tries to put out. Second, who said he needed the injectors all over his body? Not sure how you know those injectors work but bacta can be introduced directly into the body to facilitate healing. In this case, he can essentially heal in combat, the method won't give him Deadpool-level healing factor, but a blaster wound would matter much less than you expect. Plus, the hormone injectors allow one to fight through the pain and also promote rapid healing etc...

[Silenceo]

For those of you doing the math...

 

Ayan = 127 Kg

Jetpack = 31 Kg

Ayan + Jetpack = 158 Kg

158 Kg = 348 pounds

 

This is before the armor, energy shield, other equipment, and such...

 

Like I said, he is not going to be zipping with that Jetpack.

[StarSquirrel]

Few key things of note in regards to Ayan's equipment:

 

Armor

"Armor forged of beskar could withstand blunt force, strikes from a lightsaber, and repeated blasterfire, though the force of the impact still transferred in part to the wearer.[9]"

 

Jetpack

"In flight, directional exhaust nozzles controlled the user's flight path, while a gyrostabilizer counterbalanced the jetpack's velocity for descent. Jetpacks were considered impractical for public use: downsides to the jetpack's agility included the device's thirty-kilo weight, and the fact that most models could carry enough fuel for around twenty bursts of thrust."

 

Shield

"As with most deflector systems, shields required large amounts of energy in the form of energy cells or a portable generator. Some models featured rechargeable energy cells. While the generator provided the most efficiency, it was larger and bulkier. The power requirements meant that shields tended to be used only when combat was expected.

 

Another feature of personal shields was ablation, that is, the shield weakened as it absorbed damage until it either was deactivated, failed, or recharged. As the shields absorbed energy, they tended to become extremely hot. Due to the limitations of personal deflector shields, they were usually used in tandem with other forms of protection."

 

Flame Thrower

" For all their power, flame projectors had a key weakness. Because they employed volatile chemicals under pressure, the weapon could sometimes explode if damaged.[1] "

 

Conclusion: Ayan is not going to be zipping around as some of you think he will... Heck, I am surprised the Jetpack can still lift him... Not to mention that all of these gadgets, add additional weak spots that if hit, can cause lethal harm to the wielder.

 

(Not a fan of X vs 1 debates...)

And yet, for some reason, many people still used all these in conjunction... maybe the issues here are not as severe as you make them out to be?

 

Also, I'd like to throw out that the Gormak tech innate thingy of Ayans means power concerns are much less of an issue, and he very likely adapted the jetpack to able to carry all his equipment.

 

For those of you doing the math...

 

Ayan = 127 Kg

Jetpack = 31 Kg

Ayan + Jetpack = 158 Kg

158 Kg = 348 pounds

 

This is before the armor, energy shield, other equipment, and such...

 

Like I said, he is not going to be zipping with that Jetpack.

 

mhm... never said he'd be nimble, just not stupidly slow enough to let someone constantly get behind him and shoot him till he dies.

Edited November 5, 2015 by StarSquirrel

[Jarons]

All she has to do to get behind him if he does this is roll and shoot. When he has the jetpack on he won't be agile at all because of physics. His heavy armor will be a huge detriment to any attempts to turn and if she dodges, which is what her agility score is good for. She can easily land a shot sending him to the ground.

So let me get this straight she will dodge roll and line up a perfect shot all the while Ayan who might be one of the smartest NPC do nothing at all.Rightttttt that's very possible.What more likely to happen is when she dodge roll Ayan we turn in that direction or land and fire and fire.

 

 

[Silenceo]

And yet, for some reason, many people still used all these in conjunction... maybe the issues here are not as severe as you make them out to be?

 

Also, I'd like to throw out that the Gormak tech innate thingy of Ayans means power concerns are much less of an issue, and he very likely adapted the jetpack to able to carry all his equipment.

 

The Gormak Tech innate is useful, and is what allows so many advanced gadgets, but it does not negate the innate downsides of said gadgets since it was not stated that he was working on such. For example, the Jetpack is as it was before since it is not said to have been altered at all. Nor does it circumvent the energy issues.

 

"3. Gormak Tech: able to modify personal gadgets, armor, weapons etc. and good understanding of technology"

 

What this means:

- He can modify his own armor heavily *Such as the bacta, extra strength, and ect*

- He understands tech very much. (Yet, we don't see tech specialists circumventing such downsides easily)

 

Don't get em wrong, it is a great innate which allowed for some awesome modifications and upgrades. However, that does not mean it negates the downsides.

 

Side Note: With all of the other things, such as armor, included. I would not be surprised if he weighed in around 500. While Beskar can be light for its effectiveness if tempered right, the sheer thickness of the armor negates a bit of that pro. Which, is why I have been questioning if the Jetpack will even work at all... Definitely not much faster than a regular guy sprinting with all the weight. Nor would he be able to corner well with it.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Silenceo

[Silenceo]

So let me get this straight she will dodge roll and line up a perfect shot all the while Ayan who might be one of the smartest NPC do nothing at all.Rightttttt that's very possible.What more likely to happen is when she dodge roll Ayan we turn in that direction or land and fire and fire.

 

 

 

If you're referring to his skills in research, then yes he is quite smart for a PC.

 

That said, most scientists are quite and utterly, terrible when it comes to combat. /sarcasm

 

In the combat-related intellectual things, Rynne has higher stats. Not to say the research intellect does not transfer over. Merely that it won't help terribly much except for perhaps knowing when/how to deal with say, his shield generator overheating. Or knowing when his equipment gets too damaged to use. (Such as the flame thrower, so it doesn't explode when he tries to use it).

 

In essence, Rynnes smarts help her on the battlefield and to work around obstacles, while Ayan's has much to do with preventing damage due to faulty equipment as well as silly mistakes.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Silenceo

[karadron]

So let me get this straight she will dodge roll and line up a perfect shot all the while Ayan who might be one of the smartest NPC do nothing at all.Rightttttt that's very possible.What more likely to happen is when she dodge roll Ayan we turn in that direction or land and fire and fire.

 

 

 

So you're making a base assumption about intelligence without actual comparative measures? And in so doing believe that it will affect the outcome of the duel? When every indication given by stats shows that Rynne's natural skills fit perfectly into the situation at hand. Not to mention she has an advanced range finder, which usually have a lock on feature. Agility falling into play at R5 and 5R above his she can outmaneuver him. Armor and additional enhancements encumbering him. He's probably carrying somewhere around 150 -200kg of gear, he's not slim by any means and bigger targets are easier to hit. His joint areas will be much easier for her to target than her's will be. Throw in the fact that even with an injections--which there's no specification that the injectors are spread throughout his body or not--will have a limited supply as well as the fact that his body will have a physical limit to how much damage those areas can take.

 

In regards to his gear, the issue being that the shield generator has to be activated, which would be his first move. If Rynne gets her first shot off before he gets his shield up theirs some serious damage going out. If she hits his flamethrower or jetpack initially or after his shield is down, and as it gets burned out it will heat up making that armor a bit toasty on the inside causing Ayan to burn more energy. I wouldn't be surprised if she just spent most of her time keeping the shield up but almost exhausted to cook him.

[karadron]

 

mhm... never said he'd be nimble, just not stupidly slow enough to let someone constantly get behind him and shoot him till he dies.

 

 

It's not that he is stupidly slow, he's averagely fast while she's 5R faster than he is due to her score. Throw in differences in armor weight and that 5R increases a bit. Essentially she can move circles around him due to her skills.

[StarSquirrel]

The Gormak Tech innate is useful, and is what allows so many advanced gadgets, but it does not negate the innate downsides of said gadgets since it was not stated that he was working on such. For example, the Jetpack is as it was before since it is not said to have been altered at all. Nor does it circumvent the energy issues.

 

"3. Gormak Tech: able to modify personal gadgets, armor, weapons etc. and good understanding of technology"

 

What this means:

- He can modify his own armor heavily *Such as the bacta, extra strength, and ect*

- He understands tech very much. (Yet, we don't see tech specialists circumventing such downsides easily)

 

Don't get em wrong, it is a great innate which allowed for some awesome modifications and upgrades. However, that does not mean it negates the downsides.

 

Side Note: With all of the other things, such as armor, included. I would not be surprised if he weighed in around 500. While Beskar can be light for its effectiveness if tempered right, the sheer thickness of the armor negates a bit of that pro. Which, is why I have been questioning if the Jetpack will even work at all... Definitely not much faster than a regular guy sprinting with all the weight. Nor would he be able to corner well with it.

 

At the very least it provides enough maneuverability in short bursts to shift his movements and ensure he can cover his own rear. I'd also posit that with beskar, if the jetpack or flamethrower managed to be destroyed the blast would be more likely to affect anyone near him as opposed to Ayan who'd still be wrapped in Beskar.

 

I'd also like to note, that regardless of how nimble she is, Ayan can still turn faster than she can stay behind him if she's trying to keep her distance. If she is to get close enough that she can truly exploit his lack of maneuverability she'd have to be in melee range which would get her killed very quickly.

 

Basically, agility is not as good in this fight as some people might think it is. She just lacks the skills to properly exploit that agility against Ayan.

[StarSquirrel]

It's not that he is stupidly slow, he's averagely fast while she's 5R faster than he is due to her score. Throw in differences in armor weight and that 5R increases a bit. Essentially she can move circles around him due to her skills.

 

Not if she wants to keep a safe enough distance from him to not be in melee range...

[Jarons]

So you're making a base assumption about intelligence without actual comparative measures? And in so doing believe that it will affect the outcome of the duel? When every indication given by stats shows that Rynne's natural skills fit perfectly into the situation at hand. Not to mention she has an advanced range finder, which usually have a lock on feature. Agility falling into play at R5 and 5R above his she can outmaneuver him. Armor and additional enhancements encumbering him. He's probably carrying somewhere around 150 -200kg of gear, he's not slim by any means and bigger targets are easier to hit. His joint areas will be much easier for her to target than her's will be. Throw in the fact that even with an injections--which there's no specification that the injectors are spread throughout his body or not--will have a limited supply as well as the fact that his body will have a physical limit to how much damage those areas can take.

 

In regards to his gear, the issue being that the shield generator has to be activated, which would be his first move. If Rynne gets her first shot off before he gets his shield up theirs some serious damage going out. If she hits his flamethrower or jetpack initially or after his shield is down, and as it gets burned out it will heat up making that armor a bit toasty on the inside causing Ayan to burn more energy. I wouldn't be surprised if she just spent most of her time keeping the shield up but almost exhausted to cook him.

No what I am saying is thinking he will just stand their and let you shoot at him after seeing you dodge roll is completely idiotic.

 

No the issue is that even with her skill Ayan innates and items make up for all those things.

[karadron]

No what I am saying is thinking he will just stand their and let you shoot at him after seeing you dodge roll is completely idiotic.

 

No the issue is that even with her skill Ayan innates and items make up for all those things.

 

Like what innate? If his jetpack gets shot he lands on his face, she can take advantage of that better than he can. Sure he could try and adapt to not taking damage while on the ground but her combat boost against Mandalorians is still going to see his vulnerable parts get blasted. If he charges her she can stealth out reposition and take a pot shot or two before he turns.

 

Then it's a matter of figuring out if her assassination skill + range skill can knock him down.

[Silenceo]

At the very least it provides enough maneuverability in short bursts to shift his movements and ensure he can cover his own rear. I'd also posit that with beskar, if the jetpack or flamethrower managed to be destroyed the blast would be more likely to affect anyone near him as opposed to Ayan who'd still be wrapped in Beskar.

 

Actually, no.

 

If say, his Jetpack blows, he will still suffer tons of damage even if his armor is not breached. Similar reasoning to why people can die by just being near an explosion, even if the fire and shrapnel miss them entirely. Come on Star... I know you know this... Heck, the line I even quoted stated that was one of the weaknesses of Beskar, that the force still goes through.

[Jarons]

Like what innate? If his jetpack gets shot he lands on his face, she can take advantage of that better than he can. Sure he could try and adapt to not taking damage while on the ground but her combat boost against Mandalorians is still going to see his vulnerable parts get blasted. If he charges her she can stealth out reposition and take a pot shot or two before he turns.

 

Then it's a matter of figuring out if her assassination skill + range skill can knock him down.

His unorthodox innate that star has mentioned about 15 times and that it pretty much means that innate that boost her ability against Mandalorians won't be in affect.Also his adaptive innate also give him another chance to dodge and get away.Also if she pop into stealth it will make her look dishonorable as mentioned before.It will take her at least 10 seconds to get into position and the sniper rifle ready to fire.Am sure star can confirm if you have to keep on sneaking away to win then their no honor in that.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Jarons

[PadsterPwns]

Actually, no.

 

If say, his Jetpack blows, he will still suffer tons of damage even if his armor is not breached. Similar reasoning to why people can die by just being near an explosion, even if the fire and shrapnel miss them entirely. Come on Star... I know you know this... Heck, the line I even quoted stated that was one of the weaknesses of Beskar, that the force still goes through.

 

This is off-topic but when you consider that, Boba and Jango were pretty lucky.

[Silenceo]

This is off-topic but when you consider that, Boba and Jango were pretty lucky.

 

They are quite lucky indeed. Jango's didn't explode due to it being crushed, and made inoperable. Boba, it was punctured at a singular point, which was done with a primitive like weapon as to not ignite it. Which is why he merely flew off out of control instead of exploding. If hit with a hot projectile such as a plasma bolt? Could definitely explode.

[StarSquirrel]

His unorthodox innate that star has mentioned about 15 times and that it pretty much means that innate that boost her ability against Mandalorians won't be in affect.Also his adaptive innate also give him another chance to dodge and get away.Also if she pop into stealth it will make her look dishonorable as mentioned before.It will take her at least 10 seconds to get into position and the sniper rifle ready to fire.Am sure star can confirm if you have to keep on sneaking away to win then their no honor in that.

Eh, short term use to gain an quick advantage is unlikely to hurt your reputation, but if you're gone long enough for your opponent to claim victory in the face of your cowardice you might as well run away because even if you win, the other Mandalorians will kill you for it.

 

10-20 seconds I'd say is about the limit of what you can get away with before it is considered hiding...

[raandomname]

Just to clarify one thing: yes Ayan is heavy and his equipment is heavy, but he can still move normaly and as Star said due to pure geometry, he will have to move a lot less to turn then Rynne who will have to circle around him at least 20 meters away from him.

Also how many times do I have to repeat it: HIS EXOSKELETON WILL ALLOW HIM TO CARRY THE WEIGHT OF ALL HIS STUFF QUITE EASILLY.

About his jetpack, I think it is pretty obvious that Ayan would equip a jetpack and posibly modify it if necesary so that it can actually carry his weight. I wouldnt have listed it in his equipment, if he couldnt even use it.

Also I think that Karadron's etimate of 150-200 kilograms of additional equipment is quite a bit to high. Id put it at 100 kilos. Which still is much, but not that excessive. Also a thing about his heavy armor, while it certainly is heavy, it also isnt ridiculously heavy. The main reason why I specified heavy beskar'gam is that many suits of Mando armor like the ones of the Death Watch, Mando Cabur or Jango and Boba are rather light with lots of gaps. Ayan's armor is designed for vastly superior coverage like a medieval suit of plate armor that usually weight about 30 kg.

Also that Rynne will get a perfectly aimed shot of before Ayan can activate his shield seems rather unlikely. From what we see of HUDs in SW, he probably can activate his shield at literally the blink of an eye while Rynne needs to get her weapon into shooting position, carefully aim for a weak spot and fire. Realy this isnt CoD where you can just 360-quickscope, because that is what her fighting style feels like a bit tbh. No matter how skilled she is Rynne will have to spend at least a few seconds with stuff like aiming.

[Jarons]

Eh, short term use to gain an quick advantage is unlikely to hurt your reputation, but if you're gone long enough for your opponent to claim victory in the face of your cowardice you might as well run away because even if you win, the other Mandalorians will kill you for it.

 

10-20 seconds I'd say is about the limit of what you can get away with before it is considered hiding...

 

So if she uses it multiple time during the duel she will be fine?Well I take back my point.

 

[StarSquirrel]

So if she uses it multiple time during the duel she will be fine?Well I take back my point.

Basically she might be able to stealth long enough to get out of melee range or to move from firing position to firing position.

 

However also note Stealth Belts have limited use as well. For instance, she can't use it while running or fighting and at close range it is virtually worthless (especially since Ayan has a HUD) so I'd say it is certainly not the best tool she could have brought to this fight.

[karadron]

Just to clarify one thing: yes Ayan is heavy and his equipment is heavy, but he can still move normaly and as Star said due to pure geometry, he will have to move a lot less to turn then Rynne who will have to circle around him at least 20 meters away from him.

Also how many times do I have to repeat it: HIS EXOSKELETON WILL ALLOW HIM TO CARRY THE WEIGHT OF ALL HIS STUFF QUITE EASILLY.

About his jetpack, I think it is pretty obvious that Ayan would equip a jetpack and posibly modify it if necesary so that it can actually carry his weight. I wouldnt have listed it in his equipment, if he couldnt even use it.

Also I think that Karadron's etimate of 150-200 kilograms of additional equipment is quite a bit to high. Id put it at 100 kilos. Which still is much, but not that excessive. Also a thing about his heavy armor, while it certainly is heavy, it also isnt ridiculously heavy. The main reason why I specified heavy beskar'gam is that many suits of Mando armor like the ones of the Death Watch, Mando Cabur or Jango and Boba are rather light with lots of gaps. Ayan's armor is designed for vastly superior coverage like a medieval suit of plate armor that usually weight about 30 kg.

Also that Rynne will get a perfectly aimed shot of before Ayan can activate his shield seems rather unlikely. From what we see of HUDs in SW, he probably can activate his shield at literally the blink of an eye while Rynne needs to get her weapon into shooting position, carefully aim for a weak spot and fire. Realy this isnt CoD where you can just 360-quickscope, because that is what her fighting style feels like a bit tbh. No matter how skilled she is Rynne will have to spend at least a few seconds with stuff like aiming.

 

If you're going for the full plate armor feel then the issue of movement is pretty spot on with what I was saying. He's sacrificing maneuverability for protection. Even that armor has gaps and exploitable weaknesses, and given Rynne's Mandalorian innate she can exploit them.

 

In regards to Jarons: Unorthodox cannot cancel out Mandalorian in this scenario. Both combatants have to fight with honor which, to some extent, limits how unorthodox Ayan can really be. Not to mention the fact that he knows nothing about his opponent whilst his opponent has spent much time studying him.

[PadsterPwns]

They are quite lucky indeed. Jango's didn't explode due to it being crushed, and made inoperable. Boba, it was punctured at a singular point, which was done with a primitive like weapon as to not ignite it. Which is why he merely flew off out of control instead of exploding. If hit with a hot projectile such as a plasma bolt? Could definitely explode.

 

Oh I wasn't arguing otherwise, just something I noticed.

 

Edit: Also sorry I can't contribute much, I'm on the verge of finishing my faction and faction leader, actually would you mind checking your PM's when you get the chance? Thanks.

Edited November 5, 2015 by PadsterPwns