happen to stumble on this vid and it made me angry

[Iserath]

i know itss not exactly merc related but it was mostly about how they use the forums to make balancing changes.... yet every single merc posted the same list of like 4 things to be done and none of the besides KO being changed 5% a wholeeeeeeeee 5% higher activation. WTH ABOUT OUR HEALS!!!!!

 

[Iserath]

also the whole win trading thing and they are just now talking about it yet it seemed to be such a big deal in that talk... w tee effff are they even doing at bio?

its like that episode of south ark where manatees pick balls out of their tank and each one has part of a plot on it so the ideas are made up at random by trained manatees picking colored balls and yet south park made a funny awesome episode using that!!!

 

we are giving you what to use with this very forum and its almost a slap in the face to us because it seems like we are just ignore, only to be fed generic open ended politician comments.

[Nightkin]

Its been this way for years now, i dont know why im still hoping for change or why im even surprised by bad balancing. I must be medically insane or something

[XantosCledwin]

Its been this way for years now, i dont know why im still hoping for change or why im even surprised by bad balancing. I must be medically insane or something

 

Meh... I have played nearly a dozen different MMORPG's in the last 12 or so years, and in that time, the one common factor that all of the MMORPG's had, was that not one of them was particularly good at the PvP aspect of their games. There was always some sort of class balancing that had to be done after the games initial release, and it was almost always because one class had become overpowered in PvP.

 

I am a firm believer in the fact that if you really want to be playing a PvP oriented game, then the MMORPG genre is not the genre you should be playing. Instead the genre you should be playing is the MMOFPS genre as that genre of game specifically caters to that level of competitiveness in a way that an MMORPG just isn't designed to be able to do.

 

Now before the diehard SWTOR PvPers get all gunhoe and condemning of me, let me explain what I mean here:

 

First, you need to understand that Star Wars the Old Republic is classified as a Massively Multiplayer Role Playing Game. As such it is part of the Role Playing Game super-genre. Role Playing Games, since their earliest of days, have been historically HORRIBLE for depicting Player vs. Player scenarios. You just really can't do Player vs. Player in Dungeons and Dragons (which was the very first Official member of the Role Playing Game genre).

 

Of course there were exceptions in the history of Role Playing Games where Player vs. Player was possible, for example White Wolf's World of Darkness Campaigns, and most especially the Live Action Role Playing that World of Darkness was particularly notable for. But Live Action Role Playing, and World of Darkness in particular was the birthing ground of such horror stories as the Rod Ferrell murders.

 

Point is that historically, Role Playing Games just do not transition well into the form of Player vs. Player due to the conflict inherent in the rules for determining Monster stats and abilities when compared to player stats and abilities. It also didn't help that in some of these old school Role Playing Games the difference between Melee Player Classes and Caster Classes was almost insurmountable.

 

Did you for example know that in Dungeons and Dragons, a Level 20 Fighter (most basic melee class) can do about 80 damage to an enemy in a single attack.... While a level 20 Wizard can re-write the laws of the multi-verse on the quantum level with a single spell (and that isn't even an attack spell) to such a degree that they can bring someone whose body was completely atomized back from the dead, or actually kill the unkillable?

 

Ultimately, my point is, with a history like that in Role Playing Games, I can't honestly say that I am overly surprised that we are experiencing such horrendous class balancing issues in this game, can you?

Edited March 20, 2015 by XantosCledwin

[Nightkin]

Meh... I have played nearly a dozen different MMORPG's in the last 12 or so years, and in that time, the one common factor that all of the MMORPG's had, was that not one of them was particularly good at the PvP aspect of their games. There was always some sort of class balancing that had to be done after the games initial release, and it was almost always because one class had become overpowered in PvP.

 

I am a firm believer in the fact that if you really want to be playing a PvP oriented game, then the MMORPG genre is not the genre you should be playing. Instead the genre you should be playing is the MMOFPS genre as that genre of game specifically caters to that level of competitiveness in a way that an MMORPG just isn't designed to be able to do.

 

Now before the diehard SWTOR PvPers get all gunhoe and condemning of me, let me explain what I mean here:

 

First, you need to understand that Star Wars the Old Republic is classified as a Massively Multiplayer Role Playing Game. As such it is part of the Role Playing Game super-genre. Role Playing Games, since their earliest of days, have been historically HORRIBLE for depicting Player vs. Player scenarios. You just really can't do Player vs. Player in Dungeons and Dragons (which was the very first Official member of the Role Playing Game genre).

 

Of course there were exceptions in the history of Role Playing Games where Player vs. Player was possible, for example White Wolf's World of Darkness Campaigns, and most especially the Live Action Role Playing that World of Darkness was particularly notable for. But Live Action Role Playing, and World of Darkness in particular was the birthing ground of such horror stories as the Rod Ferrell murders.

 

Point is that historically, Role Playing Games just do not transition well into the form of Player vs. Player due to the conflict inherent in the rules for determining Monster stats and abilities when compared to player stats and abilities. It also didn't help that in some of these old school Role Playing Games the difference between Melee Player Classes and Caster Classes was almost insurmountable.

 

Did you for example know that in Dungeons and Dragons, a Level 20 Fighter (most basic melee class) can do about 80 damage to an enemy in a single attack.... While a level 20 Wizard can re-write the laws of the multi-verse on the quantum level with a single spell (and that isn't even an attack spell) to such a degree that they can bring someone whose body was completely atomized back from the dead, or actually kill the unkillable?

 

Ultimately, my point is, with a history like that in Role Playing Games, I can't honestly say that I am overly surprised that we are experiencing such horrendous class balancing issues in this game, can you?

Well if you look at history like that then i have to agree with you, the platform is hardly optimal. However, when you look at the actual game here it is not hard to envisage what needs to be done, atleast to this class, to achieve better balance. Ofc this goes for several classes in the game, and having played all of them on both faction sides im not completetly biased to buffed the living daylight out of just mercs/mandos so i can have the most fun. I have always wanted "game" balance and i dont think we are so very far away from it. The changes needed are small, the effect of those changes would be fantastic. Baby steps are needed and frequent changes are needed to balance a what was changed so we dont end up with hulk smashers running around for 2+ years destroying everything.

 

Must be extremly limited dev resources, otherwise i cannot understand why they only manage to change a few % values of abilites every couple of months.

 

Kick up the pace in balancing, keep a good communication with the community and ask them what they feel is good balance. Dont ask for feedback and then wipe your bum with the communites opinions, thats hardly appreciated.

 

A very good example would be Diablo 3´s current patch 2.2 where the devs communicate with the community on a almost daily basis and change lots of things in each patch on PTS based on feedback before it is released.

Being a part of that community now is actually quite fun.

[XantosCledwin]

I have no idea how many people in the Bioware offices are actually employed for the purposes of developing additional patches on SWTOR. However it can't be the entire company as a lot of those resources have to be devoted to future games.

[Iserath]

i dont know.. it just seems like they ask us what needs to be done.. we, the people paying to play the game everyday know what we want... if any business had a forum full of its clients constantly telling them how they want to spend their money on their product the company would have to be crazy not to listen to every last word and do as much as possible to satisfy its consumer base. How hard is it to write one freakin message a day or even a week about how each class is being developed? that way we dont feel ignored!

 

ALSO i pre ordered this game for the low low price of $160 or so for the super deluxe edition with in game items only available to ME for paying the highest price... now anyone gets everything i got for $15?? i feel they should somehow compensate for those of us who have emails in game from 1200 days ago... people who played 5 days before launch for example... getting up every hour to check if your batch of order numbers had been qued up for early access...

 

sorryyy im vent-ranting... sigh... just lemme live on my merc long enough to kill a few people or possible win a one on one with a glow slick swinger again...

[ElZaguero]

Meh... I have played nearly a dozen different MMORPG's in the last 12 or so years, and in that time, the one common factor that all of the MMORPG's had, was that not one of them was particularly good at the PvP aspect of their games. There was always some sort of class balancing that had to be done after the games initial release, and it was almost always because one class had become overpowered in PvP.

 

I am a firm believer in the fact that if you really want to be playing a PvP oriented game, then the MMORPG genre is not the genre you should be playing. Instead the genre you should be playing is the MMOFPS genre as that genre of game specifically caters to that level of competitiveness in a way that an MMORPG just isn't designed to be able to do.

 

...

 

Point is that historically, Role Playing Games just do not transition well into the form of Player vs. Player due to the conflict inherent in the rules for determining Monster stats and abilities when compared to player stats and abilities. It also didn't help that in some of these old school Role Playing Games the difference between Melee Player Classes and Caster Classes was almost insurmountable.

 

 

(above quote edited for brevity)

 

Bravo, bravo, bravo! You have put your finger very precisely on the problem, as I have seen very few manage before; PVPers and PVEers don't belong in the same game.

 

Like you, I've been at this a while. My first MMO was Anarchy Online, which I started playing at retail launch back in July of 2001. I won't claim to have played quite a dozen different MMOs, because I stuck with Anarchy Online and Eve Online for years, but I've played 9 or 10 for a decent span of time. Eve was the only MMO I have ever played that truly did a proper job of mixing PVP and PVE.

 

Unfortunately, we live in the era of corporate games, and the corporate masters will always insist that an MMO have both, because they think that will maximise their player base, and hence their revenues. This leads to compromise, and the definition of compromise is a solution in which nobody gets what they wanted.

 

PVP attracts aggressive personality types, and aggressive personality types protest loudly when they don't get what they want. This leads to a situation in which a vocal minority attains influence far out of proportion to its numbers. This leads to bitterness and negativity on both sides, and puts the devs in a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation. Note that the title of this thread includes the phrase "made me angry". I point this out not to bash the OP, but simply to make my point.

 

The conflict is inherent in the situation, unavoidable in practical terms, and not going to go away any time soon.

 

Game on, oh my brothers and my sisters, and make the best of it that you can.

[Iserath]

I understand what you guys mean but really heals being fixed and shields being a bit stronger along with matching pt's HO and we are good to go,, that's not gunna hurt pve at All! It's just so simple yet being avoided