JackNader Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) The problem is that there is a specific timing for when berserk comes up, particularly for both carnage and fury specs, however this timing is different for each spec; changing it to a fix CD would alter heavily the rotations, if the CD is too long then there would simply be no rotation. As it is, Berserk related to the fury system is perfectly fine. Predation is the one that needs a fixed CD. TL;DR, berserk out of the fury system is a terrible idea. That's absolutely garbage. Berserk is generated by using abilities that expend rage and you re LOCKED out of fury generation while berserk stacks are on your bar. The time it takes to generate fury stacks is almost identical. Hell, making a claim like that, your essentially saying that nobody should be taking defensive forms ever because getting attacked would allow berserk to be generated faster and thus completely throw out your rotation. God forbid you get a couple of killing blows and generate a few extra fury stacks. What a load of bollocks. Edited March 20, 2015 by JackNader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skettitangles Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 There's merit in both sides of this argument. On the PvE side I believe the argument is that there are several instances where, taking incoming damage into account, Beserk can become generated very quickly giving all 3 specs the ability to boost dps significantly. On the PvP side, the argument is the same but in relation to keeping Predation on for max uptime and only using Beserk to boost burst dps when appropriate. Either way, I'd like to see either one taken off the fury system for testing on the PTS sometime in the near future because I have a feeling it could be a great way to balance the sent/mara in both th PvE and PvP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NalivenKensen Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 That's absolutely garbage. Berserk is generated by using abilities that expend rage and you re LOCKED out of fury generation while berserk stacks are on your bar. The time it takes to generate fury stacks is almost identical. Hell, making a claim like that, your essentially saying that nobody should be taking defensive forms ever because getting attacked would allow berserk to be generated faster and thus completely throw out your rotation. God forbid you get a couple of killing blows and generate a few extra fury stacks. What a load of bollocks. Since you can just not use the stacks, building them earlier is not a problem. However, all Sentinel specs (but especially Concentration) absolutely DO sit on the stacks instead of using them if they go up to 30 at the wrong time. Here is a simple fix for Predation and Zen. Keep Zen as it is. Give Predation a cool down. Getting attacked (and maybe attacking) reduces its cool down by X seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackNader Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) I can tell there are a lot of people who either do not raid or do not pvp. I'll break it down like this Putting predation on a cooldown in PvP Pro's * You will be able to use berserk while having decent up time on your target for the duration of your first pred ONLY. Con's *After your first predation drops off you are cannon fodder. You will be kited and destroyed. The opportunity to berserk more will not even come into play as you will barely be able to reach your target in order to deal damage and generate more fury. *You lose a HUGE amount of team utility and mobility ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Putting predation on a cooldown in PvE Pro's * Will never have to prioritize berserk over pred again and thus will be able to deal maximum damage to stationary targets. Con's *You are limited in your options to buff your teams speed and defense rating in situations where it is actually useful. Hence your raid utility is diminished. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Putting Berserk on a cooldown - PvP Pro's * You gain maximum up time on your target * You no longer have to sacrifice burst for up time and will have a much more devestating impact on healers, etc * Excellent permanent party wide defense and speed boost. Con's * None ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Putting Berserk on a cooldown - PvE Pro's * Will never have to prioritize berserk over pred again and thus will be able to deal maximum damage * Bringing at least 1 marauder for perma pred spam and Defense boost will be a must. Con's *You might suffer a slight desync with berserk which is easily solved by lowering the cooldown. *No other cons Edited March 21, 2015 by JackNader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor-Norton Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I can tell there are a lot of people who either do not raid or do not pvp. I'll break it down like this Putting predation on a cooldown in PvP Pro's * You will be able to use berserk while having decent up time on your target for the duration of your first pred ONLY. * Allows a Marauder to have a good speed boost to use to evade focus fire or to counter someone kiting them, but not something a Mara can keep up for the entire game. Con's *After your first predation drops off you are cannon fodder. You will be kited and destroyed. The opportunity to berserk more will not even come into play as you will barely be able to reach your target in order to deal damage and generate more fury. * You lose a HUGE amount of team utility and mobility, but you can actually do damage, and the team utility was kind of too much anyway. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Putting predation on a cooldown in PvE Pro's * Will never have to prioritize berserk over pred again and thus will be able to deal maximum damage to targets. Con's * It can't be spammed like the current version, but you can plan where to use it and coordinate it with your Tanks/the rest of your group for maximum use. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Putting Berserk on a cooldown - PvP Pro's * You gain maximum up time on your target, because near permament 80% speed for any class is not a terrible idea. * You no longer have to sacrifice burst for up time and will have a much more devestating impact on healers. This is not exactly the same as having Pred on a cooldown instead. * It wouldn't be that overpowered, since the CD of Predation can be made to be 30-45 seconds. Con's * It wouldn't be that overpowered, since the CD of Predation can be made to be 30-45 seconds. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Putting Berserk on a cooldown - PvE Pro's * Won't have to like prioritize Pred over Berserk just like the Pred on cooldown suggestion. * Bringing at least 1 marauder for perma pred spam and Defense boost will be a must. This is a great suggestion because why make a class viable for normal use when you can give is a clunky nice and Pred Spam is not totally stupid. Plus having a 10 second team speed boost on an effective 10-15 second cooldown with no downside is definitely not overpowered. Con's * It really ****s with your rotation in terms of getting desynced and removes all decision making in terms of switching up your abilities to get Berserk at x time. * Makes Berserk another boring uninteresting mechanic because you can never have enough of those these days. *No other cons FTFY The problem with your idea is that the effective time between Berserk has to stay the same to make the specs work damage wise, however the effective time between Predations will be the same as if you are spamming it. Basically you want to have your cake and eat it too (compared to Live where you can have one or the other). Most other suggestions limit how often Predation can be used, yours doesn't. I also feel it doesn't make much the Fury mechanic make much sense. You are getting more vicious and building up your Anger, but instead of using that pent up Rage to demolish something... you use it make all your friends run like the wind! As is the mechanic makes sense because you are primarily supposed to use it with Berserk. And because it is primarily used with Berserk, it is a much easier (and imo more effective) change to give Predation a cooldown. This also fixes the entire problem of how overpowered Predation spam can be, while keeping how Marauders do damage the same. And one of the big QoL problems with 3.0 is how much they changed how Maras do damage. Edit: I was probably too snarky in the quoting thing. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackNader Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) FTFY The problem with your idea is that the effective time between Berserk has to stay the same to make the specs work damage wise, however the effective time between Predations will be the same as if you are spamming it. Basically you want to have your cake and eat it too (compared to Live where you can have one or the other). Most other suggestions limit how often Predation can be used, yours doesn't. I also feel it doesn't make much the Fury mechanic make much sense. You are getting more vicious and building up your Anger, but instead of using that pent up Rage to demolish something... you use it make all your friends run like the wind! As is the mechanic makes sense because you are primarily supposed to use it with Berserk. And because it is primarily used with Berserk, it is a much easier (and imo more effective) change to give Predation a cooldown. This also fixes the entire problem of how overpowered Predation spam can be, while keeping how Marauders do damage the same. And one of the big QoL problems with 3.0 is how much they changed how Maras do damage. Edit: I was probably too snarky in the quoting thing. Sorry. Marauders are the only class that isn't allowed to have its cake and eat it. Let's keep in mind that the meta has changed massively. When the fury system was designed a) Marauders parsed at the top of the list along with snipers. They were also given more utility than the other specs because they could only "DPS." Biowares philosophy has changed since then. All DPS specs are supposed to parse roughly the same and every class was given utility. b) Marauders did not have issues being kited. This is something that has become a real issue only in 3.0 and it is 100% due to every class getting kite or anti kite tools except marauders. Why are marauders the only class that have to shaft their damage completely just to stay on target? Proper use of predation is the ONLY thing which is keeping marauders playable in PvP. This is something that the overwelming majority of marauders aren't getting. They are trying to use berserk and being utterly destroyed because of it. Logically, berserk is useless if you cannot stay on your target. You have no choice but to prioritize predation over berserk and squeeze those berserks in at the tail end of your pred and ONLY in the correct situation. Putting pred on a cooldown isn't an option. As stated, predation is the only thing keeping marauders in the game at the moment. Having it available once every 30 or 45 seconds would render the class unplayable. There is only one other option I can see which could solve the issue. That is to divorce either pred or berserk from the fury system and then invent a system where specific attacks (which generate rage) lower the active cooldown. Also amend defensive forms so that being attacked lowers the active cooldown. It needs to be "functionally" Identical to the fury system. The two abilities would be on separate systems that are functionally identical. This way you do not have to choose between one or the other. Edited March 21, 2015 by JackNader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_mK Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) Marauders are the only class that isn't allowed to have its cake and eat it. Let's keep in mind that the meta has changed massively. When the fury system was designed a) Marauders parsed at the top of the list along with snipers. They were also given more utility than the other specs because they could only "DPS." Biowares philosophy has changed since then. All DPS specs are supposed to parse roughly the same and every class was given utility. b) Marauders did not have issues being kited. This is something that has become a real issue only in 3.0 and it is 100% due to every class getting kite or anti kite tools except marauders. Why are marauders the only class that have to shaft their damage completely just to stay on target? Proper use of predation is the ONLY thing which is keeping marauders playable in PvP. This is something that the overwelming majority of marauders aren't getting. They are trying to use berserk and being utterly destroyed because of it. Logically, berserk is useless if you cannot stay on your target. You have no choice but to prioritize predation over berserk and squeeze those berserks in at the tail end of your pred and ONLY in the correct situation. Putting pred on a cooldown isn't an option. As stated, predation is the only thing keeping marauders in the game at the moment. Having it available once every 30 or 45 seconds would render the class unplayable. There is only one other option I can see which could solve the issue. That is to divorce either pred or berserk from the fury system and then invent a system where specific attacks (which generate rage) lower the active cooldown. Also amend defensive forms so that being attacked lowers the active cooldown. It needs to be "functionally" Identical to the fury system. The two abilities would be on separate systems that are functionally identical. This way you do not have to choose between one or the other. I do sit on stacks of fury in combat if I know MS will not be buffed from it during a gore window, or in fury if I already got koan stacks I will not activate berserk. Why is spamming predation so important to you? Giving a speed boost to Bounty Hunters with HO or Inquisitors with force speed, or Operatives with double roll will not make them do more dps or be more effective in pvp. However you are gimping yourself in pvp while completely ruining the little viability sents/maras already have in PVE. If they where to put predation on a 30 sec CD with Knockback and root immunity, sentinels could approach sorcs and snipers without loosing half their health first, or it would actually make sentinel a viable class for last phase of Revan HM Edited March 21, 2015 by g_mK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skettitangles Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Marauders are the only class that isn't allowed to have its cake and eat it. Let's keep in mind that the meta has changed massively. When the fury system was designed a) Marauders parsed at the top of the list along with snipers. They were also given more utility than the other specs because they could only "DPS." Biowares philosophy has changed since then. All DPS specs are supposed to parse roughly the same and every class was given utility. b) Marauders did not have issues being kited. This is something that has become a real issue only in 3.0 and it is 100% due to every class getting kite or anti kite tools except marauders. Why are marauders the only class that have to shaft their damage completely just to stay on target? Proper use of predation is the ONLY thing which is keeping marauders playable in PvP. This is something that the overwelming majority of marauders aren't getting. They are trying to use berserk and being utterly destroyed because of it. Logically, berserk is useless if you cannot stay on your target. You have no choice but to prioritize predation over berserk and squeeze those berserks in at the tail end of your pred and ONLY in the correct situation. Putting pred on a cooldown isn't an option. As stated, predation is the only thing keeping marauders in the game at the moment. Having it available once every 30 or 45 seconds would render the class unplayable. There is only one other option I can see which could solve the issue. That is to divorce either pred or berserk from the fury system and then invent a system where specific attacks (which generate rage) lower the active cooldown. Also amend defensive forms so that being attacked lowers the active cooldown. It needs to be "functionally" Identical to the fury system. The two abilities would be on separate systems that are functionally identical. This way you do not have to choose between one or the other. This is the answer. A certain number of attacks build Beserk's own set of stacks to make it useable and functions much the same as it already does as opposed to a flat cooldown for Beserk. After testing spamming Predation in Carnage spec for PvP I have to agree, it's the only way to go. Divorcing Beserk from the Fury system makes sense: keep the 2 group buffs on Fury stacks and have Beserk operate on it's own as the Marauders personal buff much like a Merc's supercharged cylinder or whatever that thing is they have that stacks. It would end the need to chose between Predation or Beserk when spending 30 stacks of Fury and allow Annihilation and Fury disciplines to function in warzones whilst also spamming Predation. This solution would also leave PvE rotations unchanged from they way they function now. My only fear is that the devs might nerf one or all 3 of the Marauder buffs it they were to separate one from the Fury system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackNader Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) I do sit on stacks of fury in combat if I know MS will not be buffed from it during a gore window, or in fury if I already got koan stacks I will not activate berserk. Why is spamming predation so important to you? Giving a speed boost to Bounty Hunters with HO or Inquisitors with force speed, or Operatives with double roll will not make them do more dps or be more effective in pvp. However you are gimping yourself in pvp while completely ruining the little viability sents/maras already have in PVE. If they where to put predation on a 30 sec CD with Knockback and root immunity, sentinels could approach sorcs and snipers without loosing half their health first, or it would actually make sentinel a viable class for last phase of Revan HM Do you even PvP? *Operatives do not have mobility issues. They have multiple ways to remove snares and roots. They also have ranged attacks, can bug out whenever they want as well as 2 gap closers every 10 seconds. They have a lot of kite and anti kite tools *Powertechs have multiple gap closers and are now a ranged class. They do not suffer the issues that marauders have. Powertechs cannot be kited. *Inquisitors also have no issues whatsoever. Sorcs have an extreme number of ways to get away from melee targets as well as excellent self healing and multiple roots and snares. Sins also are extremely difficult to kite. Not one of the listed classes are forced to choose between mobility and damage. The only class that is getting ****ed over is the marauder. It's getting ****ed over because it is being forced to choose between predation and berserk. Putting pred on a cooldown will not work at all. I cannot stress this enough. I have spelled out exactly what happens in PvP to marauders who use berserk over predation numerous times. They are free kills. All it takes is a knockback and a snare and the marauder is a sitting duck. They must burn through the majority of their cooldowns just to reach their target. This is why just about every single marauder thinks that the class is squishy and has mobility issues. They are prioritizing berserk and getting demolished because of it. Putting predation on a cooldown helps them for a grand total of 15 seconds. After that they are back to square one. I don't have this issue because I am using predation. I don't find I'm squishy either because I don't have to blow half my cooldowns just to reach my target. I am on my target like a bad rash and my damage numbers at the end of the round always reflect this. My complaint is that I can't berserk in situations where I want to berserk and I sure as hell don't feel in this meta it is warranted. Edited March 21, 2015 by JackNader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_mK Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I do pvp, do your PVE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skettitangles Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 We can agree at least that separating Predation and Beserk from the same resource system is a good idea ok! What both Jack and Dón-Quíjote are saying is true and correct from the opposite ends of the spectrum. Jack is right that prioritising Predation over Beserk in PvP (with the Heroic Utility) gives the Marauder greater mobility and maximum uptime on target, so you're bound to do higher amounts of damage and stay alive longer. Dón-Quíjote is correct in saying that prioritising Beserk over Predation is an absolute must for HM Marauders to maximise their dps and execute their rotations correctly. Let's ignore the "which one goes off the Fury system" argument for one second. We agree that separating Beserk and Predation from the same resource system is the way to go. How to do it is where we disagree and it's looking like PvP vs PvE communities that will take opposing sides in this disagreement. You're both right in your statements for the most part. This could be the single biggest and most significant change to the Marauder/Sentinel class in the game's history. Let's not f**k it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackNader Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 We can agree at least that separating Predation and Beserk from the same resource system is a good idea ok! What both Jack and Dón-Quíjote are saying is true and correct from the opposite ends of the spectrum. Jack is right that prioritising Predation over Beserk in PvP (with the Heroic Utility) gives the Marauder greater mobility and maximum uptime on target, so you're bound to do higher amounts of damage and stay alive longer. Dón-Quíjote is correct in saying that prioritising Beserk over Predation is an absolute must for HM Marauders to maximise their dps and execute their rotations correctly. Let's ignore the "which one goes off the Fury system" argument for one second. We agree that separating Beserk and Predation from the same resource system is the way to go. How to do it is where we disagree and it's looking like PvP vs PvE communities that will take opposing sides in this disagreement. You're both right in your statements for the most part. This could be the single biggest and most significant change to the Marauder/Sentinel class in the game's history. Let's not f**k it up Correct. The two must be separated and yet both be functionally the same as they are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterboytkd Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 We can agree at least that separating Predation and Beserk from the same resource system is a good idea ok! What both Jack and Dón-Quíjote are saying is true and correct from the opposite ends of the spectrum. Jack is right that prioritising Predation over Beserk in PvP (with the Heroic Utility) gives the Marauder greater mobility and maximum uptime on target, so you're bound to do higher amounts of damage and stay alive longer. Dón-Quíjote is correct in saying that prioritising Beserk over Predation is an absolute must for HM Marauders to maximise their dps and execute their rotations correctly. Let's ignore the "which one goes off the Fury system" argument for one second. We agree that separating Beserk and Predation from the same resource system is the way to go. How to do it is where we disagree and it's looking like PvP vs PvE communities that will take opposing sides in this disagreement. You're both right in your statements for the most part. This could be the single biggest and most significant change to the Marauder/Sentinel class in the game's history. Let's not f**k it up Absolutely. And I know, for a lot of us long-time Sent/Mara players, it feels overpowered to be getting our cake and eating it, too. But I think Jack was right: we're currently the only class that DOESN'T get our cake and eat it, too. The Utility system vastly favored all other classes and ACs, with only Guards/Juggs not leagues beyond us (though still beyond us, just not leagues). That's why I think it's imperative that the two gain their own system. NOW, here's a thought, possibly a compromise between the PvP desire for Fury -> Pred and the PvE desire for Fury -> Berserk: What if Zen/Berserk still used the Centering/Fury system, and Trans/Pred was given a cooldown. Let's say 30 seconds. Then, we could put in a Masterful utility that that reduces the cooldown by 10 seconds (to 20 seconds), so the Sent/Mara could have Trans/Pred up for 50% of the time, similar to now, but has to invest 2 utility points to get there (which is a better 2 point investment that a 10m root, am I right!). Now, I know putting more strain on our utilities isn't great, but our whole utility tree as a whole needs a massive overhaul. Plus, my gut feeling is that's fair when you consider Sonic mode for PTs/Vanguards takes 3 utility points. It's just a thought. Basically, I don't care which one comes off the Fury system. One of them needs to, and we need to have full functionality of both if we're to compete in PvP at all. Though in days past, having our cake and eating it would have been OP, in the current 3.0 meta, with the utilities available to all the other classes, it's a must. And if that requires utility point expenditures, that seems right, but it needs to be striated among the tiers, not all lumped into Heroic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackNader Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) I'm thinking reaching 30 fury stacks grants 1 stack of predation. Activating predation consumes this stack instead of the 30 fury stacks. The stack has the same expire timer as fury stacks. The drawback is that you have to consume the berserk stacks before you can start building fury again so it's still a nerf to pred. Edited March 22, 2015 by JackNader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor-Norton Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) Marauders are the only class that isn't allowed to have its cake and eat it. Let's keep in mind that the meta has changed massively. When the fury system was designed a) Marauders parsed at the top of the list along with snipers. They were also given more utility than the other specs because they could only "DPS." Biowares philosophy has changed since then. All DPS specs are supposed to parse roughly the same and every class was given utility. b) Marauders did not have issues being kited. This is something that has become a real issue only in 3.0 and it is 100% due to every class getting kite or anti kite tools except marauders. Why are marauders the only class that have to shaft their damage completely just to stay on target? Proper use of predation is the ONLY thing which is keeping marauders playable in PvP. This is something that the overwelming majority of marauders aren't getting. They are trying to use berserk and being utterly destroyed because of it. Logically, berserk is useless if you cannot stay on your target. You have no choice but to prioritize predation over berserk and squeeze those berserks in at the tail end of your pred and ONLY in the correct situation. Putting pred on a cooldown isn't an option. As stated, predation is the only thing keeping marauders in the game at the moment. Having it available once every 30 or 45 seconds would render the class unplayable. There is only one other option I can see which could solve the issue. That is to divorce either pred or berserk from the fury system and then invent a system where specific attacks (which generate rage) lower the active cooldown. Also amend defensive forms so that being attacked lowers the active cooldown. It needs to be "functionally" Identical to the fury system. The two abilities would be on separate systems that are functionally identical. This way you do not have to choose between one or the other. a. The Fury system isn't the problem with Mara DPS (Annihilation is one of the best parsing specs out there, just very few want to play it because super boring). And it is irrelevant for the argument of occasional uses hurts Maras DPS since everyone here supports separating it Pred or Berserk from Fury. Also no one ever brought up making Berserk available more often, just having it's means of generating changed. So I don't see your point other than Maras aren't good now for PvE. You misunderstand my argument. I am not saying that Maras should stay as is, in fact I was one of the first people (before the Expansion even) that asked for having it divorced from the Fury system and be allowed to be it's own thing. What I am saying is that what should be given a cooldown is Predation, while you think it is Berserk. If you want to continue discussing that, cool. Also, Predation is not the only thing keeping Maras in the game right now, especially for PvE. And giving free Predations at the same rate as Berserk is not the way to fix things, the class needs more effective snare breaks for PvP than it needs 10 seconds super speed every 15 seconds. Lately I have been favoring the idea of having a utility that makes Leap break all snares, similar to what Assassins have for Force Speed. While Predation would have a utility similar to Endure Pain and have it grant immunity to controlling effects, but not an outright purge. On a general note, all the suggestions that divorce Berserk or Pred from Fury are having your cake and eating it to, considering we are asking to basically get free Predations or Berserks in ways that were impossible before. It is just finding the right balance between what would be too much and what is not enough. Edited March 24, 2015 by Emperor-Norton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XeniusX Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 a. Lately I have been favoring the idea of having a utility that makes Leap break all snares, similar to what Assassins have for Force Speed. While Predation would have a utility similar to Endure Pain and have it grant immunity to controlling effects, but not an outright purge.. I like it. Whatever the devs do (because they apparently don't listen to all the suggestions and pleas thrown at them), i hope they do something soon. Also for any BW employee looking at this; 3.0 at release was a huge joke and someone should slap you for even starting a ranked season like this! Now, say you're sorry and go eat your vegetables Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterboytkd Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 Also, Predation is not the only thing keeping Maras in the game right now, especially for PvE. And giving free Predations at the same rate as Berserk is not the way to fix things, the class needs more effective snare breaks for PvP than it needs 10 seconds super speed every 15 seconds. Lately I have been favoring the idea of having a utility that makes Leap break all snares, similar to what Assassins have for Force Speed. While Predation would have a utility similar to Endure Pain and have it grant immunity to controlling effects, but not an outright purge. On a general note, all the suggestions that divorce Berserk or Pred from Fury are having your cake and eating it to, considering we are asking to basically get free Predations or Berserks in ways that were impossible before. It is just finding the right balance between what would be too much and what is not enough. Part of the issue is that Predation isn't just a buff for the Mara; it's a buff for the whole group. Though I love the idea of a Through Power-esque utility, it would have to stipulate the bonus is just for the Mara. If we go that route, I wonder if it wouldn't be better to redesign Predation altogether to be something more akin to Hydraulics Override (but not quite as busted--in my opinion, HO should not be granting immunity to knockbacks and pulls). I like the root breaker on Leap utility idea. And I think it would be even better to make a Leap-augmenting utility chain leading to that. Maybe at Skillful tier, a utility that allows Leap to be used within 0-10m (and, of course, replace that in Anni tree for something else). Maybe a Masterful utility that says "whenever you get knocked back, immobilized, or pulled, reduce the cooldown on your Charge by 3 seconds." Then the rootbreaker could be Heroic. But the issue here is we're not talking a "simple" fix. This would require a complete overhaul of Sent/Mara utilities...which is, of course, something that IS currently needed. Because as they add new abilities to different tiers, they need to reevaluate existing utilities to see if they should stay, be removed, be moved, or be changed. Ie, if we get a root breaker on Leap, Unbound should probably be altered and moved (maybe just keep the +30% speed and push it down to Skillful or Masterful tier). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JouerTue Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 i think i'm the only one who likes new watchman more than pre 3.0. i agree with DST spreading but it's not mandatory for me. i like activating the sabers and it's easy trackable since the cd is the same as leap. and at that point even cauterize has expired..FM on 2-3 stacks no matter what, good for switching since it's 10m.. and i like the leap+overload+zen opening GCD. i wouldn't mind the reduced duration on cauterize, but i dislike the idea of nerfing its damage. i'd like to see more focus generated by dots. i don't really like concentration and i'll pass on any comment. about combat, i like the changes, i see how someone can find clipping MS annoying, but in the old way you could fill anything in there..it's really fun with the 6 new set bonus and the BR spam on zen is amazingly fast. could use a buff on ataru damage, but all specs will be brought back in line with balance sage so.. about pvp i won't compare with other op classes, but at least the class needs some feeling of being viable and not a ragdoll. i'd like to see: skillfull defensive forms becomes passive defensive roll (area effect DR 30%) comes here masterful camo duration reduced, can be activated while stunned, heals you 5% when effect ends heroic legslash ROOT becomes baseline getting attacked reduces the cooldown of saber ward by 3'', effect cannot occur more than once every 1.5'' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztian Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 The new cloak thing is nice.. rest is crap .. we still have the same problemers as before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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