tunewalker Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) Having read the thread, it's obvious that the greatest issue (aside from the attitude of the OP) is in the list and the logic used to create it: To sum up, these brief sentences alone show the following: 1. Willful dismissal of canon material. 2. Ignorance of canon developments 3. Dismissal of context 4. Irritatingly poor grammar All of which begs the question, how does one make a canon list if one ignores elements of canon? While the rest of you answer that question, draw your attention to the rest of the list, wherein we'll see the final fundamental flaw in this list's design: In addition to all of the factors above, the reasons cited for placement show an interesting trend. That is to say, the reasons for placement are entirely based on combative feats. Take, for example, Obi-Wan Kenobi. His placement is based entirely on circumstantial feats, rather than the merits of his strength in the Force. Similarly, many characters are placed for the same reason. So, another question, how can this list determine the most powerful Force users when it dismisses context and is based on circumstance alone? Another interesting trend to note there, is its based on "combat feats" while ignoring that Yoda Lost to Sidious, and putting Vader at the very top even though Luke bested him while ALSO holding back "I will not fight you father" so any "holding back" argument on Vader's part is moot. Not to mention also putting him above The Ones for 1 feat he did completely forgetting that the rest of the time they were on the planet during the Mortis ark Anakin showed no where near this level of ability again. it was a 1 time thing unless he took the father up on his offer, which as we all recall, he didn't. Simple to say even when trying to follow the logic for why the characters were placed as they were placed the reasons themselves contradict with each other, the same reasoning is not held through out the post, showing even more that this is a list with clear bias against palpatine and for Vader. If I were to try to make a list it would obviously be 1. Father 2. Son and Daughter 3. Sidious (defeated Yoda in a force duel, fought on par with Windu in a saber duel after having defeated 3 other jedi masters) 4. Yoda (though he was 'defeated' by palpatine, it was only do to circumstances, thus I put them technically on an even level) 5. Luke (was sent by Yoda to kill Sidious and Vader where he failed, Succeeded in defeating Vader and proving to Palpatine that he was the more powerful, causing palpatine to want to replace Vader with Luke.) 6. Vader (The Chosen one and Palpatine's right hand man, there are to many reasons to list at this time 7. Windu (defeated Sidious in a Saber duel, but when the duel turned to force he was struggling much more. Doesnt have tech excuse since in the same movie we have Sidious and Yoda duel) Edited January 9, 2016 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Permaximum Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) Having read the thread, it's obvious that the greatest issue (aside from the attitude of the OP) is in the list and the logic used to create it: To sum up, these brief sentences alone show the following: 1. Willful dismissal of canon material. 2. Ignorance of canon developments 3. Dismissal of context 4. Irritatingly poor grammar All of which begs the question, how does one make a canon list if one ignores elements of canon? While the rest of you answer that question, draw your attention to the rest of the list, wherein we'll see the final fundamental flaw in this list's design: In addition to all of the factors above, the reasons cited for placement show an interesting trend. That is to say, the reasons for placement are entirely based on combative feats. Take, for example, Obi-Wan Kenobi. His placement is based entirely on circumstantial feats, rather than the merits of his strength in the Force. Similarly, many characters are placed for the same reason. So, another question, how can this list determine the most powerful Force users when it dismisses context and is based on circumstance alone? I've waited a long time for this moment my little, green friend 1. On the contrary, you and your alike don't have a clue about what's canon or not. 2. I bet you don't even know what you're talking about. 3. Are you talking about the other guys, you know who? 4. There's at least one grammatical error in your post too. Pardon me but English is not my native language and I don't have any desire to take care of the grammar in the SWTOR forums. I don't want to spend much of my time here and I admit I tend to make grammatical mistakes when I write really fast in English. If it helps, I want to point out to the fact that the wall of green text irritates me more than you can imagine. In the spirit of transparancy, I want to know what you consider Canon before I give appropriate answers to the rest of your post. Edited January 9, 2016 by Permaximum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConVallian Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) @ Aurbere, Beni, Zoltan,Pasdter, and jarons It took you guys way to long to get here Edited January 9, 2016 by ConVallian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 @ Aurbere, Beni, Zoltan,Pasdter, and jarons It took you guys way to long to get here I only came for the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConVallian Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) Is it still canon that sidious lost on purpose to Mace to put on a show for Anakin? Even after the canon wipe i haven't heard a definitive answer to this question I stand by the opinion That after the Ones the most powerful are Mace, Yoda,Talzin , and Sidious. They are llvery close in power but i still think Sidious tips over just a bit Edited January 9, 2016 by ConVallian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I've waited a long time for this moment my little, green friend Have you now? 1. On the contrary, you and your alike don't have a clue about what's canon or not. I won't speak for anyone else, but I can assure you that your statement is wrong as it refers to me. 2. I bet you don't even know what you're talking about. Intriguing. 2. The Ones (Exceptionally powerful force wilders, Celestials. The Father, the Son and the Daughter. Almost living embodiments of the Force) The Son was an embodiment of the dark side of the Force who dwelled on Mortis during the Clone Wars with his sister, the light-sider known as Daughter, and the powerful Force user known as Father, who tried to keep them in balance.--Starwars.com I'd post supplementary quotes from Ultimate Star Wars, but I doubt you take that canon sourcebook as canon. Regardless, that's just one issue. Your second issue is with placing Vader above Palpatine. George Lucas himself made a canon statement on the matter, saying that Vader was weaker, and every source (canon and legends) supports the notion. Your only evidence is circumstantial and remains ignorant of the canon. We'll get to the rest of the issues later. For now, elaborate on your position for Vader at the #1 spot. 3. Are you talking about the other guys, you know who? Nope. Talking about you, as I thought I made clear in my discussion regarding your placement of Obi-Wan Kenobi. If it helps, I want to point out to the fact that the wall of green text irritates me more than you can imagine. Green is my trademark, so you'll have to get used to it. That was also not even close to a wall. In the spirit of transparancy, I want to know what you consider Canon before I give appropriate answers to the rest of your post. Anything not distributed under the Legends banner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Is it still canon that sidious lost on purpose to Mace to put on a show for Anakin? Even after the canon wipe i haven't heard a definitive answer to this question It was never confirmed afaik. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Is it still canon that sidious lost on purpose to Mace to put on a show for Anakin? Even after the canon wipe i haven't heard a definitive answer to this question The only thing said on the matter that I am aware of is that Mace seemingly won their duel. Canon seems to be taking the stance that it's best left to speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 The only thing said on the matter that I am aware of is that Mace seemingly won their duel. Canon seems to be taking the stance that it's best left to speculation. It's funny how you and Pads are wasting time here instead of in our 1on1. http://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Kristen-Bell-Laughing-to-Crying.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConVallian Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 i See, But i think the Sidious and Yoda are the most powerful or even equals perhaps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 It's funny how you and Pads are wasting time here instead of in our 1on1. http://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Kristen-Bell-Laughing-to-Crying.gif Priorities, Zoltan. This thread must be cleansed of impurities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 i See, But i think the Sidious and Yoda are the most powerful or even equals perhaps Canon has gone out of its way to suggest that, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConVallian Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) and then the next step down would be Mace and Talzin Another step down would be Luke and Vader then dooku Edited January 9, 2016 by ConVallian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 and then the next step down would be Mace and Talzin Another step down would be Luke Vader and Dooku Something like that, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConVallian Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Something like that, yes. Ok gotcha. I still am not sure if Luke really surpassed his Father or not i think its safe to say they are probably equals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 and then the next step down would be Mace and Talzin Another step down would be Luke and Vader then dooku Aayla = Vader. They both deflected blaster bolts with their bare hands. Oh wait, this is canon only...****. I was so close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Ok gotcha. I still am not sure if Luke really surpassed his Father or not i think its safe to say they are probably equals Depends on when you're taking Luke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Priorities, Zoltan. This thread must be cleansed of impurities.Do your work Aurbere, I would join you but I have little time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Depends on when you're taking Luke. Phrasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Do your work Aurbere, I would join you but I have little time. I'd very much like to deal with this by weekend's end, since I have work to do elsewhere. I'll deal with it. No worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 And if the One's are being considered, Leland Chee's statement on the matter should be taken into account: https://twitter.com/HolocronKeeper/status/352618406517809153 Inb4 Legends, despite being a member of the Story Group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I'd very much like to deal with this by weekend's end, since I have work to do elsewhere. I'll deal with it. No worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I think the fact that the OP isn't responding to whole arguments should be addressed too, as he's asked multiple people to provide arguments and evidence and has only responded to a phrase in them, leaving the rest of the post unanswered. It's getting frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 @ Aurbere, Beni, Zoltan,Pasdter, and jarons It took you guys way to long to get here I haven't seen Episode 7 yet so I was afraid of spoilers but the second I took a look at the horrors of this thread.... I had to do something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarons Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 @ Aurbere, Beni, Zoltan,Pasdter, and jarons It took you guys way to long to get here I still don't want to be in here it sad how this guy is acting and how misguided he is.Pad and beni came and it brought the rest of us.I might make a list later and respond to this crazy thread in detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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