ALaggyGrunt Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 This works decently on paper until you realize that all of the most popular builds in the game counter it HARD. Gunships chew you up even faster with super shield piercing slug railguns, BLC scouts kill you in 1-2 shots, Quad/Pod scouts tear you up just as fast as normal, and even Bombers and Strikes with HLC can make quick work of you. All of those weapons I mentioned are already pretty OP but they suddenly become even more uber effective against CP armor. The ONLY meta build that doesn't chew you up is the Quad/Cluster Battlescout, but hardly anyone even runs that anymore. Also your lasers (Quads, LLC, or RFL) won't do squat against CP armor. You're better off using your own CP Rampart/Razorwire with HLC. ... and take care to deal with all the mines and drones before you go under the sat. If you don't, you're 100% stuck for 15 seconds, which makes you an easy target for even the worst shot ever. I find the T3 Strike Quad/Thermite combo works better and it is a lot more versatile. You can go under the SAT to kill bombers rather than chasing them around in circles. And with directional shields and wingman you can actually win jousts against Strikes and Scouts. With good powerdive use you can even pester Gunships. Honestly this build is amazing at killing most bomber pilots. But it is pretty useless against a really good bomber because you'll rarely land a thermite on him. For that reason I think HLC Strikes and Pod Scouts work best at this job if you don't want to switch to bomber yourself and/or you are solo carrying the game. If their entire team is two bombers, maybe. It's not. You can't go under the sat to kill the bombers I was talking about, because you'll get 100% snare from interdiction mine+drone, which means you have to sweep the mines somehow before you go under the sat, which brings us back to EMP missile/ion splash. The EMP missile can be fired somewhat safely from two ships in a serious match: A T3 scout with DF, and a T3 gunship with retros (retro if threatened while locking, and you will probably not lose the lock in progress). If it's a charged plating bomber, you get the bonus of disabling the shield ability with a mastered EMP missile. The strikers are just deathtraps, because flying straight and level with low RNG evasion against ships built to shoot through distortion fields is a really good way to get sploded once they figure out what you're trying to do. Thermite isn't a serious option because repair drone is strong enough to heal through the burn, and you won't be able to get close enough to follow through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickDagles Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) ... and take care to deal with all the mines and drones before you go under the sat. If you don't, you're 100% stuck for 15 seconds, which makes you an easy target for even the worst shot ever. If their entire team is two bombers, maybe. It's not. You can't go under the sat to kill the bombers I was talking about, because you'll get 100% snare from interdiction mine+drone, which means you have to sweep the mines somehow before you go under the sat, which brings us back to EMP missile/ion splash. The EMP missile can be fired somewhat safely from two ships in a serious match: A T3 scout with DF, and a T3 gunship with retros (retro if threatened while locking, and you will probably not lose the lock in progress). If it's a charged plating bomber, you get the bonus of disabling the shield ability with a mastered EMP missile. The strikers are just deathtraps, because flying straight and level with low RNG evasion against ships built to shoot through distortion fields is a really good way to get sploded once they figure out what you're trying to do. Thermite isn't a serious option because repair drone is strong enough to heal through the burn, and you won't be able to get close enough to follow through. Quads with range capacitors easily outranges mines. And I'm not using thermite to kill with a slow burn, I'm essentially using it to turn my Quads into super-HLCs for 18 seconds (armor ignore, shield piercing but with higher DPS). Repair drone doesn't do squat against that. They are completely different play styles and I've played them both literally hundreds of times. They can both work, however I find thermite/quad works much better. But Starguard HLC/concussion is easily superior because you never HAVE to land a missile, it's just a nice bonus. Directional shields on a Starguard/Clarion is over 6000 hitpoints. That means it requires at least 6 seconds of sustained fire to kill you. The only build that can kill you fast is quad/Pod or BLC/pod, but that still takes about 3 seconds, plenty of time for you to peel. With directional shields you definitely have enough time to cause a lot of trouble if not get a kill. That being said, I think the EMP is probably a bit better against Rampart/Razorwire running overcharged shield instead of charged plating. Charged plating is just too good against anything without armor piercing. Interestingly, the Pike can be set up as a complete anti-bomber specialist with HLC/concussion/EMP. However I feel as though lack of retro thrusters really takes away from its survivability. I find I can survive a lot longer with the Starguard. Overall it's a bit of a moot point because the Quad/Pod Battlescout and Ion Rail GS are better ships for the job. Edited March 3, 2015 by RickDagles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuciwalker Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 3) They are arguably their own best counter. It's not possible for bombers to be the best counter to bombers if gunships are the best counter to gunships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Interestingly, the Pike can be set up as a complete anti-bomber specialist with HLC/concussion/EMP. My problem is that utility builds like this are only really effective as part of a full-on assault, and if you have that going for a node much more mundane and generically good ships are also very strong. I'm not sure if specialist pike, battle scout, and rail sniper is better than battle scout, battle scout, and rail sniper, or battle scout, rail sniper, and rail sniper- and I feel it might be a bit better at killing an enemy bomber on the node than boy bomber, rail sniper, battle scout, but those builds are better at keeping the node once capped. I think you need to have a lot of people on the node before someone bringing a niche build like that is more effective, so I think you very rarely see a situation like that. If the bomber is boosting to a node, I'll argue that anything with concussions and heavy lasers is amazing, but there's a lot of ships that fit this description. Once a bomber (or any ship) is on the node it is not very easy to hit with any of the medium range / medium lockon weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickDagles Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) My problem is that utility builds like this are only really effective as part of a full-on assault, and if you have that going for a node much more mundane and generically good ships are also very strong. I'm not sure if specialist pike, battle scout, and rail sniper is better than battle scout, battle scout, and rail sniper, or battle scout, rail sniper, and rail sniper- and I feel it might be a bit better at killing an enemy bomber on the node than boy bomber, rail sniper, battle scout, but those builds are better at keeping the node once capped. I think you need to have a lot of people on the node before someone bringing a niche build like that is more effective, so I think you very rarely see a situation like that. . Yep I agree completely, which is why I stated that I have most success with the Starguard HLC/cluster/retro build. Every 15 seconds you can use retro and kill or make a huge dent in scouts unless they peel. And your HLC can kill a bomber in only a few seconds of sustained fire. You're completely screwed against Gunships, though. Once a bomber (or any ship) is on the node it is not very easy to hit with any of the medium range / medium lockon weapons Completely disagreed, HLCs are super easy to land here. And remember against CP bombers you are going to get 35% shield piercing, so even if he LoS on top of the SAT you are still doing meaningful damage straight to his hull (about 100 or so hull damage per shot). It really only takes about 10 HLC shots to bring him down. Even less if you use the Bypass co-pilot ability. But again, I actually choose wingman so that I can hit scouts. Missiles are hard, yes. I use this build as a legit counter to CP bombers all the time. Unfortunately I have to switch to Quad/Pod scout if they start protecting their bombers with ion railgun. Edited March 3, 2015 by RickDagles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuciwalker Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 My problem is that utility builds like this are only really effective as part of a full-on assault, and if you have that going for a node much more mundane and generically good ships are also very strong. They are really fun though. EMP actually disabled turrets too, and if you launch it at a mine located close to the center of the satellite you can hit all three. (I did this once and it was glorious.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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