Looking for PC Building Advice

[Noahgolinko]

So after reading the post all the way through I understand what I need to do.

I'm going to start with an i5.

I'm going to return my gtx 960 and buy a 290 something.

My setup is going to be a mixed resolution eyefinity that's why I'm going with amd instead. I want to utilize the nice 27" 1200p dell monitor I currently own. Right now I'm using a 1080 benq next to it for extended desktop. Would like to add a second 1080p for an immersive 1080p x 1200p x 1080p eyefinity setup.

I read that eyefinity does mixed resolution and nvidia surround doesn't. Is this true ?

Can you suggest value buys ?

Value mobo that has xxfire for future addition of a second gpu?

Which i5 is a good value and somewhat future proof ?

Edited March 8, 2015 by Noahgolinko

[Ghisallo]

Okay one thing I keep missing here with all the specs.... cache. People seem to forget something about MMOs built on aging engines that SWTOR was (development on the engine started in the late 90s and it was winning awards at trade shows in 2006). These engines at best use 2 cores, many of them are only single threaded.

 

As such cache is king. So step one... Your CPU. An i5 with 8mb cache will be better than an i7 with 4mb of cache. So get 8mb of cache, 12 is better. You can even have what some would call low-average RAM and an average video card and probably get better performance than a system with 4mb cache but 16gigs of RAM and two good video cards running in SLI/Crossfire.

 

Also NO AMD processors. Don't get me wrong for things that are multi-core compliant they are good. They do not handle single and dual threading as well as Intel though.

 

After that...if you want quick loading screens, fast rendering when u zone to fleet etc. SSD all the way.

[DayoftheJackal]

My Current Desktop Spec:

AMD Bulldozer FX-8320E 8 core Processor Overclocked to 4.3GHz

Gigabyte GA-990-FXA-D3 Motherboard

Corsair PC3-10700H 16GB (4x4GB) RAM

Gigabyte GTX 970 WindForce OC 4096MB GDDR5 Graphics Card

Samsung EVO 240GB SSD

H100i Externally Mounted Water Cooler

Windows 8.1 Pro

 

On highest setting it will multibox 3 characters (3 separate accounts) on 3 screens @ 1920x1080 all @ 60fps

 

My Old Desktop Spec:

AMD Phenom 6 core overclocked to 3.8GHz Processor

Gigabyte GA-990-FXA-D3 Motherboard

Corsair PC3-10700H 16GB (4x4GB) RAM

HD6970 2GB Graphics Card

Samsung EVO 120GB SSD

Massive Air Cooler

Windows 8.1 Pro

 

On highest setting runs smooth no lag but couldn't multibox 2 characters on highest on 2 screens @ 1920x1080, needed AA, shadows and texture turning down slightly and 3 characters turning down to medium

 

My Laptop 1 spec:

HP Pavilion 15-n268sa 15.6" Laptop

AMD A10 Processor @ 2.1 GHz

8 GB RAM

Dual Graphics - AMD Radeon HD 8670M 2 GB Card with 8610G GPU

Display Resolution 1366 x 768

1TB Hard Drive

Windows 8.1

 

Highest setting except AA low plays smooth no lag

 

Asus N55S 15.6" Laptop

Intel Core i5 2430M Processor @ 2.4GHz

6 GB RAM

NVIDIA GeForce GT 555M 2GB Graphics Card

Display Resolution 1600 x 900

240GB SSD

Windows 8.1 Pro

 

Highest setting except AA low plays smooth no lag

 

Tablet Spec:

Acer Iconia W700 11.6-inch Tablet Laptop

Intel Core i3 2365M Processor @1.4GHz

4GB RAM

Intel HD Graphics

Display Resolution 1920 x 1080

64GB SSD

Windows 8.1

 

Low setting plays smooth no lag but looks terrible but very portable

[Noahgolinko]

My Current Desktop Spec:

AMD Bulldozer FX-8320E 8 core Processor Overclocked to 4.3GHz

Gigabyte GA-990-FXA-D3 Motherboard

Corsair PC3-10700H 16GB (4x4GB) RAM

Gigabyte GTX 970 WindForce OC 4096MB GDDR5 Graphics Card

Samsung EVO 240GB SSD

H100i Externally Mounted Water Cooler

Windows 8.1 Pro

 

On highest setting it will multibox 3 characters (3 separate accounts) on 3 screens @ 1920x1080 all @ 60fps

 

My Old Desktop Spec:

AMD Phenom 6 core overclocked to 3.8GHz Processor

Gigabyte GA-990-FXA-D3 Motherboard

Corsair PC3-10700H 16GB (4x4GB) RAM

HD6970 2GB Graphics Card

Samsung EVO 120GB SSD

Massive Air Cooler

Windows 8.1 Pro

 

On highest setting runs smooth no lag but couldn't multibox 2 characters on highest on 2 screens @ 1920x1080, needed AA, shadows and texture turning down slightly and 3 characters turning down to medium

 

My Laptop 1 spec:

HP Pavilion 15-n268sa 15.6" Laptop

AMD A10 Processor @ 2.1 GHz

8 GB RAM

Dual Graphics - AMD Radeon HD 8670M 2 GB Card with 8610G GPU

Display Resolution 1366 x 768

1TB Hard Drive

Windows 8.1

 

Highest setting except AA low plays smooth no lag

 

Asus N55S 15.6" Laptop

Intel Core i5 2430M Processor @ 2.4GHz

6 GB RAM

NVIDIA GeForce GT 555M 2GB Graphics Card

Display Resolution 1600 x 900

240GB SSD

Windows 8.1 Pro

 

Highest setting except AA low plays smooth no lag

 

Tablet Spec:

Acer Iconia W700 11.6-inch Tablet Laptop

Intel Core i3 2365M Processor @1.4GHz

4GB RAM

Intel HD Graphics

Display Resolution 1920 x 1080

64GB SSD

Windows 8.1

 

Low setting plays smooth no lag but looks terrible but very portable

Does your first pc hold fps in 16m combat and Pvp? Post 3.0?

[Papazmurf]

So after reading the post all the way through I understand what I need to do.

I'm going to start with an i5.

I'm going to return my gtx 960 and buy a 290 something.

My setup is going to be a mixed resolution eyefinity that's why I'm going with amd instead. I want to utilize the nice 27" 1200p dell monitor I currently own. Right now I'm using a 1080 benq next to it for extended desktop. Would like to add a second 1080p for an immersive 1080p x 1200p x 1080p eyefinity setup.

I read that eyefinity does mixed resolution and nvidia surround doesn't. Is this true ?

Can you suggest value buys ?

Value mobo that has xxfire for future addition of a second gpu?

Which i5 is a good value and somewhat future proof ?

 

Give us a budget with what you are working with max. You'd be surprised at what some of us can spec you out within a budget. When coming up with a budget make sure yo add what you plan on keeping from your existing setup.

 

You can also PM me if you feel more comfortable.

[Noahgolinko]

Retuning of gtx 960 gives me 200

On top of that I'm willing to spend another 600

This is just to startt. I plan on spending more money in the near future. For xfite addition and the like.

Viable components to keep in my estimate:

PSU is 550w.

128 gb Samsung SSD

Brand new ram 1600- ddr 3, 4gb x 2

I think that's probably about it.

Will be driving dell 24" 1200p

Also have Benq 24" 1080 that I was thinking about doubling for a 1080 x 1200 x 1080 eyefinity.

 

All I want to do is be able to Make a Pull in 16m without my FPS dropping to 2. I often raid lead so it's not exactly fun to see the circles on the ground as they explode. I'm ok with a slight FPS loss in 16m that's understandable.

 

I don't see swtor holding 100% of my interest forever. Don't want to have to sacrifice running future games well to run swtors old engine now.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Noahgolinko

[Noahgolinko]

The case is just a black generic case from frys. I could probably afford to spend a little on a decent new one in the budget.

[X_Vindictuz_X]

Figured I'd pipe in on this since I just built what you would call a beast computer and my previous comp ran swtor very well before 3.0 after 3.0 wow it took a dive with freezing spells Etc and from reading what your building my old one is similar bare with me I'm on my phone and I got big thumbs.

 

 

 

Old specs

 

I7 2600k oc to 4.2

16gb ddr3 1600 corsair vengeance memory

Gtx 560ti in sli

Asus Maximuz IX mobo

Corsair h100 cpu cooler

1050watt psu

Corsair 900d case

2x 60gb ssd forgot what type so long ago

1x WD black 7200hd for gaming and storage

 

Keep in mind before 3.0 I played swtor since release it was getting upward of 100 fps now it gets about 30-50 at 1080p.

Also I can't remember if it was you that was going to buy a K series cup without the ability to oc. Don't do that.

 

New comp

 

I7 5960x oc to 4.5

32gb ddr4 2666 corsair ram

GTX 980 ftw in Sli

Asus x99 deluxe mobo

Nzxt kraken cpu cooling

2x Intel 730 in raid 0 (gaming storage) 480gb each

Acer 4k monitor 60hz connected via display port

1x 2tb SShd for storage

NZXT 810 case

NZXT 1000w plat cert psu

 

This setup was roughly 5k US keep in mind I just came back and do not use this just for swtor. I run swtor on ultra at 4k at about 45-70fps usually never goes below 60 but I have seen it. Anyway thought I'd chime in and say my 2 cents which would be don't go for the 2600 as its way to old and the 4k series would be better for future games and computing. Also 290x performs real well at a lower cost point but rumor has it the 300 series is coming out soon.

 

Would also like to share my fps in other games as I was a bit disappointed I figured this system would destroy them but not so much games are getting very demanding.

 

WoW at 4k 100fps in 20 man raid

Arma 3 at 4k ultra 25-40fps

WAr thunder 4k ultra 40fps

 

That's all I can remember for now good luck with your build its always a pleasure to build yourself a new comp.

[OwenBrooks]

Just saw this system for those with no money is a problem ....

- http://www.mwave.com.au/product/gigabyte-980x3-ultimate-pc-ab59359 very nice, wonder if santa would help.

 

I have heard you can play warzones over 30fps with this system too.

Edited March 9, 2015 by OwenBrooks

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Retuning of gtx 960 gives me 200

On top of that I'm willing to spend another 600

This is just to startt. I plan on spending more money in the near future. For xfite addition and the like.

Viable components to keep in my estimate:

PSU is 550w.

128 gb Samsung SSD

Brand new ram 1600- ddr 3, 4gb x 2

I think that's probably about it.

Will be driving dell 24" 1200p

Also have Benq 24" 1080 that I was thinking about doubling for a 1080 x 1200 x 1080 eyefinity.

 

All I want to do is be able to Make a Pull in 16m without my FPS dropping to 2. I often raid lead so it's not exactly fun to see the circles on the ground as they explode. I'm ok with a slight FPS loss in 16m that's understandable.

 

I don't see swtor holding 100% of my interest forever. Don't want to have to sacrifice running future games well to run swtors old engine now.

 

I think if you are even looking at crossfire etc. that you must only casually play SWToR?

 

A key point to all this is if you ( anyone else ) mostly play SWToR and don't really play other games then there is really little point in putting too much money into a SWToR rig.

 

For example as many have mentioned this game is primarily CPU bound and won't run multiple cores thus any i7 won't help you any extra really and you might as well forget about crossfire as it's not going to boost your performance. It may help you though with eyefinity performance if you find running a single 290 isn't up to scratch ( I say may as I've not really looked into eyefinity much as the concept of having gaps between my screens just irks me heh ).

 

For myself I put a bit over $1K into upgrading my PC last year and since then I rarely bother with too much content stuff with SWToR as I much rather get the most out of my rig running newer games on ultra etc. If I were still playing SWToR as much as I did prior to my upgrade I would think I would have easily overspent by a good $500+

 

Basically what you have above looks like you are heading down the right track though, just noted the corssfire and the riddiculously over the top 5k build above and thought I would point out you really don't need a lot for SWToR. You just need the right stuff.

[Teenki]

If you're not wary of craigslist you could easily build a very capable gaming computer for $500. This is more true if you live in a huge city like NY or LA due to high competition selling used parts.

[Luco-Zade]

 

What do you think?

 

I am also in the market for a new rig, primarily for tor and streaming media. My current 9 year old rig struggles at ultra low everything

[Papazmurf]

I think if you are even looking at crossfire etc. that you must only casually play SWToR?

 

A key point to all this is if you ( anyone else ) mostly play SWToR and don't really play other games then there is really little point in putting too much money into a SWToR rig.

 

For example as many have mentioned this game is primarily CPU bound and won't run multiple cores thus any i7 won't help you any extra really and you might as well forget about crossfire as it's not going to boost your performance. It may help you though with eyefinity performance if you find running a single 290 isn't up to scratch ( I say may as I've not really looked into eyefinity much as the concept of having gaps between my screens just irks me heh ).

 

For myself I put a bit over $1K into upgrading my PC last year and since then I rarely bother with too much content stuff with SWToR as I much rather get the most out of my rig running newer games on ultra etc. If I were still playing SWToR as much as I did prior to my upgrade I would think I would have easily overspent by a good $500+

 

Basically what you have above looks like you are heading down the right track though, just noted the corssfire and the riddiculously over the top 5k build above and thought I would point out you really don't need a lot for SWToR. You just need the right stuff.

 

I agree that he needs the right stuff, but a lot of the features in the more expensive CPUs actually do help with performance in older games, specifically having more cache. Also, the newer CPUs have better architecture that allows them to run cooler and much more efficiently at the same clocks as an old processor.

 

Older games aren't optimized as well or use older tech like DX9. SWTOR may not take advantage of hyper-threading or DX12, but it will take advantage of the RAW power those new GPUs and CPU's will put out. Not saying you're this kind of person, but it's like people think the new CPUs come out and hyper-threading is the only benefit. It just isn't the case.

 

You really have to take things on a game by game basis. If a game is really well optimized you can get away with cheaper stuff and still get good performance. If a game isn't well optimized, well the only option you've got is to get better stuff with the right features that will affect said game. Higher clocks, more efficient architecture and instruction sets on a cpu, more cache, etc.

[Nerdimports]

I gotta disagree that the i7s are a waste compared to i5s. If your i5 is 3.5 GHz stock then you are 500 MHz slower than my 4.0 GHz stock i7. If SWTOR only uses one core then why not have a better one? Sure you can over clock the 3.5 to 3.9 and get close to my 4.0 but then why not clock the 4.0 to 4.9 and get even further apart?

 

I've gotten into the habit of buying a new PC about every 3 years now so I went with an i7-4790k and I feel that I'll still be happy with it in 2018 where I'm not sure I could say that with an i5.

[Noahgolinko]

**update**

I'll be buying

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157506

 

And

 

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117369

To start. If I can rub 35 fps in 16m then I'll wait for new r300 series.

[Teenki]

**update**

I'll be buying

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157506

 

And

 

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117369

To start. If I can rub 35 fps in 16m then I'll wait for new r300 series.

 

If you're anywhere close to microcenter they have combo deals that would save ton of money you can put towards ram or video card.

 

http://www.microcenter.com/site/brands/intel-processor-bundles.aspx

[Noahgolinko]

I have frys. I'll be going there to check out their deals no doubt.

[MillionsKNives]

I gotta disagree that the i7s are a waste compared to i5s. If your i5 is 3.5 GHz stock then you are 500 MHz slower than my 4.0 GHz stock i7. If SWTOR only uses one core then why not have a better one? Sure you can over clock the 3.5 to 3.9 and get close to my 4.0 but then why not clock the 4.0 to 4.9 and get even further apart?

 

I'm pretty sure that the i5 and i7 will overclock to about the same speed, despite the different stock speeds. I came across an overclocking benchmark test where they tested stable overclocks for their i7-4790k and i5-4690k. Their stable clock was 4.8GHz at about 1.4V for both CPUs. Personally, I have my i5 OC to 4.4GHz at 1.2V because I'm just using air cooling.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I agree that he needs the right stuff, but a lot of the features in the more expensive CPUs actually do help with performance in older games, specifically having more cache. Also, the newer CPUs have better architecture that allows them to run cooler and much more efficiently at the same clocks as an old processor.

 

Older games aren't optimized as well or use older tech like DX9. SWTOR may not take advantage of hyper-threading or DX12, but it will take advantage of the RAW power those new GPUs and CPU's will put out. Not saying you're this kind of person, but it's like people think the new CPUs come out and hyper-threading is the only benefit. It just isn't the case.

 

You really have to take things on a game by game basis. If a game is really well optimized you can get away with cheaper stuff and still get good performance. If a game isn't well optimized, well the only option you've got is to get better stuff with the right features that will affect said game. Higher clocks, more efficient architecture and instruction sets on a cpu, more cache, etc.

 

Whilst the architecture is "technically" true it is also utter hype imo in that it rarely bring any significant performance gains to gaming what so ever. Just buzz words to make people think they should be upgrading because their cpu is "old".

 

In time newer architecture will be taken full advantage of by newer games ( perhaps dx12, mantle and whatever steam are calling opengl now ) but I personally believe that there will be "newer" new features and architecture by this point in time making the existing improvements rather moot ( depending of course on what we are comparing against here, I'm tlaking about the last couple of years of CPU improvements in terms of intel for gaming personally ).

 

In recent years I had bought a C2Q 6600 and upgraded a few years later to an i5 2500k which was a fairly significant boost both in terms of architecture and raw power ( 2500k has to be the best chip of all time, had mine smoking along at 4.5/4.6 on air cooling ) . Now however with about the same gap I've gone to an i5 4690k and when you really break it down I get minimal, if any, performance increases. Heck even in terms of raw power I am under powered over the 2500k as I can't get it to stabilise over 4.3 this time round ( luck of the silicone draw really ).

Why I bought this? *shrug* I was upgrading everything else and just wanted it current and had the money to spend though in hindsight I probably would have not done this and spent the extra on an even better GPU instead.

 

So whilst you make some interesting points I wouldn't mind hearing about your experiences that support it and demonstrate significant performance boost in any games?. In relation of course to the example I made which is a bit over a 3 years gap in terms of technology ( this should be light years ).

 

The raw power boost isn't there quite simply and if we look at i7s beyond my i5 example it's even more money wasted for very little to no performance gains a I see it.

 

Also I won't even bother looking at AMD because they are barely managing to catch up with 4 years old intel technology as it is.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I gotta disagree that the i7s are a waste compared to i5s. If your i5 is 3.5 GHz stock then you are 500 MHz slower than my 4.0 GHz stock i7. If SWTOR only uses one core then why not have a better one? Sure you can over clock the 3.5 to 3.9 and get close to my 4.0 but then why not clock the 4.0 to 4.9 and get even further apart?

 

I've gotten into the habit of buying a new PC about every 3 years now so I went with an i7-4790k and I feel that I'll still be happy with it in 2018 where I'm not sure I could say that with an i5.

 

I guess it depends which i5 and which i7 you are comparing and the price difference between them.

 

In the past some iterations of i5's have been better at over clocking than their i7 counter parts but you are talking stock so I guess that's moot.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

**update**

I'll be buying

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157506

 

And

 

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117369

To start. If I can rub 35 fps in 16m then I'll wait for new r300 series.

 

I get like 40-100 fps in 16M with the i5 4690k and an r9 290 so you should have no issues what so ever. Might get the occasional dip under 40 but not that I notice and could be worse in 16m for new ops but I've not even attempted those in 16m based on what I read about them.

[Elracor]

I gotta disagree that the i7s are a waste compared to i5s. If your i5 is 3.5 GHz stock then you are 500 MHz slower than my 4.0 GHz stock i7. If SWTOR only uses one core then why not have a better one? Sure you can over clock the 3.5 to 3.9 and get close to my 4.0 but then why not clock the 4.0 to 4.9 and get even further apart?

 

I've gotten into the habit of buying a new PC about every 3 years now so I went with an i7-4790k and I feel that I'll still be happy with it in 2018 where I'm not sure I could say that with an i5.

 

I agree that i7 is not a waste, but you do need to consider the significantly higher cost that usually comes with picking i7 over i5. On PCPartsPicker it's an extra 80-100$ to go from i5 4690k to i7 4790k, and that price difference could be used on some serious CPU cooling for overclocking the i5.

Edited March 10, 2015 by MFollin

[Papazmurf]

Whilst the architecture is "technically" true it is also utter hype imo in that it rarely bring any significant performance gains to gaming what so ever. Just buzz words to make people think they should be upgrading because their cpu is "old".

 

In time newer architecture will be taken full advantage of by newer games ( perhaps dx12, mantle and whatever steam are calling opengl now ) but I personally believe that there will be "newer" new features and architecture by this point in time making the existing improvements rather moot ( depending of course on what we are comparing against here, I'm tlaking about the last couple of years of CPU improvements in terms of intel for gaming personally ).

 

In recent years I had bought a C2Q 6600 and upgraded a few years later to an i5 2500k which was a fairly significant boost both in terms of architecture and raw power ( 2500k has to be the best chip of all time, had mine smoking along at 4.5/4.6 on air cooling ) . Now however with about the same gap I've gone to an i5 4690k and when you really break it down I get minimal, if any, performance increases. Heck even in terms of raw power I am under powered over the 2500k as I can't get it to stabilise over 4.3 this time round ( luck of the silicone draw really ).

Why I bought this? *shrug* I was upgrading everything else and just wanted it current and had the money to spend though in hindsight I probably would have not done this and spent the extra on an even better GPU instead.

 

So whilst you make some interesting points I wouldn't mind hearing about your experiences that support it and demonstrate significant performance boost in any games?. In relation of course to the example I made which is a bit over a 3 years gap in terms of technology ( this should be light years ).

 

The raw power boost isn't there quite simply and if we look at i7s beyond my i5 example it's even more money wasted for very little to no performance gains a I see it.

 

Also I won't even bother looking at AMD because they are barely managing to catch up with 4 years old intel technology as it is.

 

Again it really depends one what applications/games you are using. A lot of people say they are only going to use their PC for games, but then dabble in other things where the hyper-threading will be a real benefit (like video encoding FRAPs videos from their games.)

 

I wouldn't have made the upgrade from an i5 2700k to an i5 4960k. I'm actually still on the generation before that with a Xeon x5660 (though it does have 6 cores instead of 4). However my i7 950 was running SWTOR like a champ as well and I just got the Xeon two months ago.

 

You're right there is a lot of marketing jumbo when it comes to these chips, but I will always tell people to get the best part they can afford. Value wise, an i7 may not be worth the $100 premium over an i5, but if you aren't going to upgrade for 5-6 years (I'm on year 5 on my rig), well it might just be worth it. For someone upgrading every year or two years maybe not so much.

 

An i5 may have similar or near identical performance as an i7 in non-threaded apps, but what happens when games come out that are threaded? There are already are a few examples like BF4. Also, the cache does make a difference tremendously. I play a lot of Flight Simulator X. That came out in 2006 and is a DX9 game. No new GPU is really going to help except for additional VRAM and a faster clock. However CPU wise, going from an i7 950 to a Xeon x5660 was tremendous! They are the same generation as well. The 950 only had 8mb cache where the xeon had 12mb. It's actually quite a bit of extra data the CPU can pre-load. Not to mention I was able to get a better OC on my Xeon because it runs cooler.

 

Again there's a lot of factors when it comes to PC building. Budget always comes first, but then what will you be dong specifically and also what might you be doing later. I like to think worst case scenario. If I had more time I've give more specific examples, but I will say I've yet to see anyone go "man I wish I got an i7 over an i5".

[Elracor]

You're right there is a lot of marketing jumbo when it comes to these chips, but I will always tell people to get the best part they can afford. Value wise, an i7 may not be worth the $100 premium over an i5, but if you aren't going to upgrade for 5-6 years (I'm on year 5 on my rig), well it might just be worth it. For someone upgrading every year or two years maybe not so much.

 

Well, that depends on your perspective. Perhaps you can only upgrade every 5-6 years because you spend those extra hundreds dollars when you finally upgrade. Instead of upgrading to i7 every 5-6 years, you could upgrade to i5 every 4-5 years and spend about the same amount of money in the long run?

[Papazmurf]

Well, that depends on your perspective. Perhaps you can only upgrade every 5-6 years because you spend those extra hundreds dollars when you finally upgrade. Instead of upgrading to i7 every 5-6 years, you could upgrade to i5 every 4-5 years and spend about the same amount of money in the long run?

 

I upgrade based on if I feel the tech has progressed enough to provide me a substantial upgrade, which is usually ~5-6 years. An i5 is also a downgrade for my particular uses. I do other things than game. I need the hyper-threading.