Enochx Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 But which spec is currently considered better? I haven't really gotten a good handle on this whole discipline thing. how does it pan out....one spec is tank, one spec is single target and one spec is more AOE? Is that right or am I horribly wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheikShmoove Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) You are on the right track. The three Disciplines right now are Immortal (tank), Vengeance (DPS), and Rage (DPS). Since you said you wanted to roll DPS, we can focus on the latter two. Vengeance focuses more on sustained DPS (though it does not require any real setup and has OK burst). It does more DPS than Rage (in my personal experience about 3-5% more) and has better survivability. Rage delivers burst DPS and has a bit more mobility. In terms of AOE damage, while Rage used to be the go-to AOE spec for Juggernauts, I think Vengeance is probably better now. I think both DPS Disciplines are pretty good and fun to play -- I think it mostly depends on your preferred play style, and whether you are focused on a particular aspect of the game (e.g., solo questing, PvE, PvP). Edited February 25, 2015 by SheikShmoove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enochx Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 You are on the right track. The three Disciplines right now are Immortal (tank), Vengeance (DPS), and Rage (DPS). Since you said you wanted to roll DPS, we can focus on the latter two. Vengeance focuses more on sustained DPS (though it does not require any real setup and has OK burst). It does more DPS than Rage (in my personal experience about 3-5% more) and has better survivability. Rage delivers burst DPS and has a bit more mobility. In terms of AOE damage, while Rage used to be the go-to AOE spec for Juggernauts, I think Vengeance is probably better now. I think both DPS Disciplines are pretty good and fun to play -- I think it mostly depends on your preferred play style, and whether you are focused on a particular aspect of the game (e.g., solo questing, PvE, PvP). Well how about this....I am looking for a spec that will be most in demand for groups. Also, the one that has the cooler looking abilities. I want to look cool while playing lol. And finally I still have nightmares from being a Ret Pally in Vanilla WoW days....I would like to avoid similar nightmares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallucigenocide Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 juggernauts dont have any flashy looking abilities if thats what you are after.. and no need to worry they are nothing like old ret pallies. more like a really simplified arms warrior if anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enochx Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 Sweet....that's what I'm looking for. And it doesn't have to be flashy....just awesome. I'll probably try vengeance first....unless someone convinces me to roll rage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallucigenocide Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) vengeance is a good choice i really enjoy it.. i recently rerolled Guardian and leveled as Vigilance(republic version) and it works quite well for leveling. only a bummer that you get shien form really late but its still enjoyable. Edited February 25, 2015 by hallucigenocide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usif Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) Rage has a much more challenging rotation, Vengence is a bit more faceroll'y (Not to say it isn't very good and way better in a good players hands) Also the end game gear/pvp gear needs a lot more fine tuning on Rage to work at it's optimum. Venge does seem to net more dps so for PVE, it's probably be the safer choice. That said, Rage has some great points and the auto crit bursts you can roll out are awesome, especially in pvp. Drop your target to 40% HP in 2 hits so great for spiking/swapping targets. In terms of leveling I'm not sure which would be better for certain, but with the breaks in between mob clusters in openworld leveling would lend it's self well to Rage with the auto crit procs. (I.E Auto crit/wipe out a mob group, move on to the next with your proc up again, rinse and repeat) Edited February 25, 2015 by Usif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joran-Koon Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Vengeance everything. Better AoE (end game and especially leveling) Better defensives Easy rotation to learn, hard to master in application (cause melee) Only reason you'd choose Rage is cause you want to be hipster and different from everyone else lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stilitano Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I'm also a returning player, and was wondering, are DPS Juggs still somewhat looked down upon? When I played one way back in 2012 some people tended to get snarky because they figured anyone playing a DPS Jugg was stupid when they could have rolled a Marauder. Also, is there a huge DPS difference between Jugg and Marauder? I'm sure there is some since there is always a delta, but I wasn't sure just how much (I'm aware of the skill factor as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallucigenocide Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 if you're talking PvE i think they are in the middle.. not the top dogs and not the worst.. juggs and guardians are in quite a good spot atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adproduction Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I'm also a returning player, and was wondering, are DPS Juggs still somewhat looked down upon? When I played one way back in 2012 some people tended to get snarky because they figured anyone playing a DPS Jugg was stupid when they could have rolled a Marauder. Also, is there a huge DPS difference between Jugg and Marauder? I'm sure there is some since there is always a delta, but I wasn't sure just how much (I'm aware of the skill factor as well). Marauder is a glass cannon specifically tailored to doing dips where as Guardians are tailored to tank. People have stereotyped the two classes as such because of hostile nature of the status quo and their roles in pve. The guardians expectation may stem from the lack of tank in PVP and gravitation towards dps. (Aka Cookie cutter builds) However, the same divide can be found within the guardian/juggernaut community when you try to break the mode by using a Rage/Focus or making a DPS Defense/Immortal Spec using dps gear. (Again enforced by the status quo through bullying and generalization then actual proof.) There is no real skill to play this class (guardian/juggernaut) except knowing when to apply a move. This class is mainly revolves around cool downs so there is no true skill involved as melee class are easy to use and easy to learn. I don't know why people exaggerate the guardian/juggernaut's qualities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stilitano Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 if you're talking PvE i think they are in the middle.. not the top dogs and not the worst.. juggs and guardians are in quite a good spot atm. sorry, yes PvE. Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DethlaHadyn Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I'm also a returning player, and was wondering, are DPS Juggs still somewhat looked down upon? When I played one way back in 2012 some people tended to get snarky because they figured anyone playing a DPS Jugg was stupid when they could have rolled a Marauder. Also, is there a huge DPS difference between Jugg and Marauder? I'm sure there is some since there is always a delta, but I wasn't sure just how much (I'm aware of the skill factor as well). Jugs are not frowned upon at all. The biggest issue with the dps differences in your statement about comparisons to marauders, is your protection values. What I mean is if a marauder's dps is higher than yours, but your protection numbers are good, that basically trumps the discussion. If a jug isn't taunting...then ya he's definitely wasted space compared to a marauder. Like the other poster mentioned...stick to vengeance for starts. I've found rage to be a discipline of extremes... I'll be left alone to wreck the other team with good burst, or I'll get cc'ed like a ragdoll and/or focused. I've found rage to be quite lethal, but you have to play your cards right(and have great team). As a jug, people often want you to lead the charge... with Vengeance you can do that a lot better, simply because vengeance has more control and more survivability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DethlaHadyn Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 There is no real skill to play this class (guardian/juggernaut) except knowing when to apply a move. This class is mainly revolves around cool downs so there is no true skill involved as melee class . Are you high? Knowing when to apply attacks/taunts/cooldowns/swaps, is the very essence of being skilled. Every class in this game revolves around cooldowns, so yeah, not sure what you're jawing on about lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adproduction Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) Are you high? Knowing when to apply attacks/taunts/cooldowns/swaps, is the very essence of being skilled. Every class in this game revolves around cooldowns, so yeah, not sure what you're jawing on about lol. A fight is never a goal in itself. Sometimes it is simply a distraction from the true goal, and best countered with a larger distraction. -- Obi-Wan Kenobi That's your job as Guardian/Juggernaut. If you're running around the field, smashing faces, but not guardian the heal or attacking those who are attacking the healer than you're playing the wrong class. THIS IS WHY SO MANY PEOPLE SAY YOU SHOULD BE PLAYING A MARAUDER/SENTINEL BECAUSE THERE JOB IS TO SMASH AND ROLL FACES!!! Sentinel/Marauders can't protect people, draw aggro, tank, nor are they good at CCing. And if you're trying to play like one then you're a bigger noob then you think. I don't care how long you have played this game, it should have became apparent by your skills, armor, and CCs what your role was to group. Regardless of your spec, you're suppose to support the group through your AOE taunts and grab the attention of your PC character. The reason you win the majority of your fights is because you have back up. If you think skill mandates how good your class is then try fighting a 4 man group by yourself and see how far you get. As I said when I first returned to this place is that our skills are button bound and it only takes one button to do a single move. This isn't street fighter where you have to complicated patterns and buttons to do a special move. Your move are pretty much done by one button and everything is done for you. Playing a guardian is simply a series of follow ups (Warding Strike into a Guardian Slash), CC when the situation warrants it, and blowing your cooldowns when the situation warrants it. It doesn't take skill, it takes experience which learns from using the skills you have. Rotation don't take skill, they take experience. I didn't have to look at any of the rotation to learn them as most of rotation requires you to follow up with another move. The description lets you know what move to follow up next. (Warding Strike into a Guardian Slash into a Riptose, which is all written down for you on the description) Again it doesn't take skill WHEN IT WAS WRITTEN DOWN FOR YOU!!! MOST OF US BY ENDGAME ARE WEARING THE SAME GEAR OR GEAR IN THE SAME TIER!!! Again no skill. It comes down to COMMON SENSE when it comes to playing this class, which has nothing to do with skill. However, the closest you can come to skill is how effective you are at setting up the situation to where you can do your job properly as a Guardian/Juggernaut as noted above about "a fight not being a goal, but a distraction." Your job as a guardian is to take out the invader trying to take your pylon, to guard the healer during arena, running the huttball using your skills (Force Leaping and Intercepting Leap up and down the field), or forcing the team to focus on you. That's the closest you can come to skill, but playing the class does not take skill, if that makes sense. Just like in street fighter, you aren't skill because you can do all of Ryu's moves, rather you are considered skill when you can set the opponent up using Ryu's skills and tactics based on his mechanics. IT'S ABOUT FINDING DIFFERENT WAYS TO APPLY THE SKILLS YOU HAVE TO DO THINGS THAT GO BEYOND WHAT THE MOVES CAN DO!!! THIS APPLIES TO GUILD WARS, WOW, DUNGEON FIGHTER ONLINE, ETC.!!! At one point early MMOs use to allow this, but after all the complaints and nerfs, they pretty threw what little skill these game took to play out the door. Now you are playing, player friendly pvp fight. (Diminish returns on CC is proof of that) The only way two ways a guardian/juggernaut kills anyone is if someone is dumb enough to waste their time fighting you or they are already weaken by the time you reach them. BECAUSE IT'S POINTLESS TO FIGHT A GUARDIAN OR JUGGERNAUT, IF YOU HAVEN'T A KILLED THE HEALER!!! IT'S POINTLESS TO FIGHT A GUARDIAN/JUGGERNAUT DURING HUTTBALL, IF HE IS DOES NOT HAVE THE HUTTBALL OR THREAT TO THE BALL CARRIER!!! Edited February 26, 2015 by adproduction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallucigenocide Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 you Sir are an odd one.. that is all i can say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adproduction Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) you Sir are an odd one.. that is all i can say. So basically, you're saying as a Vigilance/Vengeance or Focus/Rage, you're saying you don't protect your healer or support the group? Are you saying in a group setting what matters to you is dps and number of kills, not whether you won the match? If that's the case, you think like a WoW twink who were horrible at pvp regardless of their damage/heal/kill count. Edited February 26, 2015 by adproduction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enochx Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 That's no moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallucigenocide Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 So basically, you're saying as a Vigilance/Vengeance or Focus/Rage, you're saying you don't protect your healer or support the group? Are you saying in a group setting what matters to you is dps and number of kills, not whether you won the match? If that's the case, you think like a WoW twink who were horrible at pvp regardless of their damage/heal/kill count. no i do all of the above. though babysitting healers is not in the description i still manage to do so when needed. i just think you are odd because of your nonsensical post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adproduction Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) no i do all of the above. though babysitting healers is not in the description i still manage to do so when needed. i just think you are odd because of your nonsensical post Nothing nonsensical about it. Disagreement between two people doesn't make one odd as there is no normal. You seem to think you're an example of normal, but then that would pompous of you. What I do find odd is that you think playing this class take skill without definition of what you qualifying as skill just you have no definition of what is odd or nonsensical. To put it simple, you're just being childish and rather than make a intelligence, the pinnacle of your post amounts to insults. Edited February 26, 2015 by adproduction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DethlaHadyn Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 A fight is never a goal in itself. Sometimes it is simply a distraction from the true goal, and best countered with a larger distraction. -- Obi-Wan Kenobi !!! snip... "Sometimes the goal of a fight is to kill your opponent; to crush his skull and cut out his beating heart" -- DethlaHadyn Ok, I was right... you are high. No worries... Get up, and go grab a beer man.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adproduction Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) snip... "Sometimes the goal of a fight is to kill your opponent; to crush his skull and cut out his beating heart" -- DethlaHadyn Ok, I was right... you are high. No worries... Get up, and go grab a beer man.. 1) Whoever quoted that isn't a wise person. 2) Also I can do that too. “Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.” ― Robert E. Howard Your statement still amount to childish dickishness. LOL at thinking this class takes skill. I understand, you want to be seen as a big boy and a pro, but both don't exist for you on these forums...or in the game. Edited February 26, 2015 by adproduction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaeVictis Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 So basically, you're saying What he's saying is your posts are silly and overwrought nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adproduction Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 What he's saying is your posts are silly and overwrought nonsense. I know what he is saying, he is just being childish about it because he wants to think of himself as a big boy and pro. Some people no matter their age, do not reach a mature level because certain needs weren't met when they were children so they find something to fill the avoid or meet the need. Dude, looking for praise and confidence building activities in the wrong place. STWOR isn't exactly the place you go PvP as a pro considering this is extremely player friendly game with half the class nerf to high hell. Only an narcissistic idiot would think this game take skill. (or most MMOs for that matter) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DethlaHadyn Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) 1) Whoever quoted that isn't a wise person. 2) Also I can do that too. “Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.” ― Robert E. Howard Your statement still amount to childish dickishness. LOL at thinking this class takes skill. I understand, you want to be seen as a big boy and a pro, but both don't exist for you on these forums...or in the game. "I don't speak lies! ..but I am a savage." William Wallace Man I tell ya, I've been pretty candid about my progress this season, it's been a rough road...so no, you're still incorrect about pretty much everything you've posted in this thread. Believe it or not, there are many who log on to swtor to enjoy pvp and discuss ways improve our game. That's what threads like these are for. You know, if you weren't such a hard-arse tough-guy about everything, maybe we'd consider buying your comic...lmfao Edited February 27, 2015 by DethlaHadyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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