Is the lack of attention to important issues pushing you away?

[Darth_Wicked]

So what do we get? Mostly more things to buy from the cartel market, which is then used to fund even more things for the cartel market.. but the quality is starting to drop off there too.

 

Truth be told, the quality of many CM-related things always left much to be desired.

 

There's even armor sets whose appearance in the Collections tab is 100% misleading, their final appearance in-game NOT matching what the picture shows. It's true we have the ability to preview stuff but even then, said preview is NOT always accurate either.

[jedip_enguin]

I love it when people talk about the game like an emotionally abusive spouse.

 

Why do they push me away when I love them so much?

 

[menofhorror]

I love it when people talk about the game like an emotionally abusive spouse.

 

Why do they push me away when I love them so much?

 

 

lol

 

But come on man why do you think those complaints are there? Sure "its just a game" but people get attached to a game, want to see it succeed. It`s nothing weird or anormal but a normal human reaction and it would be weird if it weren´t like that. Its normal to be upset and complain when things should be better. This is Star Wars, you can`t help but think "this should be better" when looking at many aspects in this game. I realize there is probably also pressure on the developers. But many things just need to be better. There are many problems with the typical lag issue which can`t be forgiven. Like someone already said, they aren´t the only ones out there. They should realize their competition.

 

Honestly I like many aspects of the game including the combat animations, the warzones, the flashpoints and of course the most important pillar: the story. But without the IP this game would only be half as successfull.

[Jeweledleah]

And SWTOR is magically better? Both dev studios, scratch that, all dev studios have issues with meeting deadlines, its the nature of the beast that is MMO's..

 

My point is, and remains, that their patch notes have a lot more meat on the bones, even if its delayed content that 'should have been in at launch', which by the way is a sin that Bioware itself has commited. Or have we already managed to forget the length of time we spent in DP/DF?

 

What do we get from Bioware in regards to technical changes and/or fixes? We're told they can't touch it for fear of breaking stuff more things, the UI lag and piss poor frame rates remain untouched, the game does not look good enough to run as poorly as it does to be absolutely blunt.

 

So what do we get? Mostly more things to buy from the cartel market, which is then used to fund even more things for the cartel market.. but the quality is starting to drop off there too.

 

no, swotr at this point is no longer better - if it were, I wouldn't be considering preferred status. as for spending that long in the same raid isntance? you are apparently forgetting this happening every expansion in WoW. you know when players go for nearly a year with no new raids and content patches of the "timeless isle" variety) I'm just saying that WoW is no better either. given that I can subscribe for a month every half a year or so and catch up on everything BUT normal+ raiding. and that includes legendary item chain btw. as for delays? you would THINK that company with Blizzards funds and experience would learn to pace themselves. but nope. and patch delays? are unacceptable. for all the issues with bioware even THEY don't have that much of an issue with patching the game on time (and yes, I know bugs- BLizzard's patches are JUST as buggy. if not more so.

 

either way. I'm not saying SWTOR is awesome and super great. I'm saying that putting up WoW as an example of the game that does it better is laughable. there ARE games that do it much better. WoW, especially given their higher costs of expansions and generaly higher budget - is not one of them. they have gotten sloppy. even at their worst possible subscription numbers during Mists, they were still far FAR above market average. so they can afford to be a little sloppy, just not for long. becasue people can only tolerate so far. there's a reason why my friendslist in WoW is perpetually offline.

 

its just bioware doesn't have nearly as big of a cushion as Blizzard does.

 

P.S. check out BLizzard's shop one of these days. they have been testing the waters of selling in game items for a few years now, but now? they are going all out. every few months - couple of new mounts, couple of new pets and.. transmog items. reminds you of anything?

Edited February 20, 2015 by Jeweledleah

[Treeba]

 

P.S. check out BLizzard's shop one of these days. they have been testing the waters of selling in game items for a few years now, but now? they are going all out. every few months - couple of new mounts, couple of new pets and.. transmog items. reminds you of anything?

 

Just to be fair here. Blizzard has only ever put 3 transmog items into the in-game store. All 3 were helmets and that was quite some time ago. Nothing else transmog related has shown up in the store since. They also only add a couple pets per year. Half the time those pets end up being special promotions like the last one. Half the money of the pet went to Red Cross to fight Ebola. 99% of all non-combat pets are obtained in game through pet-battles, achievements, and running old raids.

 

Now if you want to talk about mounts you have some room to argue. They added 20+ mounts to collect in WoD, but it seems like the "coolest" (obviously subjective) end up in the store. That said mounts are like pets and nearly all of them are obtained by playing the game. In no way are they going all out and it's comparable to the CM only in the fact you can actually spend money for cosmetic items.

 

 

On topic..

 

I've felt this way off and on for years. I come back to SWTOR every few months thinking, "hey it's gotta be better now... right?" Of course it never is. What we've seen the past 3 years is probably all there is to see. This is the way SWTOR is going to be from here on out. A small developer team with limit resources putting out what they can. I feel like EA has decided that their money would be better served in Battle Front. BW Austin will continue to develop what they can with what they have, but some ( a lot) of us will need to lower expectations if you want to continue to play.

 

I don't think its neglect or malice, they just don't have the resources to do much more than they are. As people quit that's only going to get worse.

[SammuelSK]

Yes, but the major difference is that when the expansion hits it brings with it major changes, alot of improvements (which is subjective, I admit) and they tend to reshape the world. SWTOR's are nothing like that, and I'll bluntly admit felt a bit like a rip off at $20. Nothing was added or done with SoR that couldn't have been a patch. Even compared to Makeb, it felt VERY content lite. Three days after it launched I had already run everything SoR had, and being work days it totalled up to fewer then 7 or 8 hours.

 

P.S. check out BLizzard's shop one of these days. they have been testing the waters of selling in game items for a few years now, but now? they are going all out. every few months - couple of new mounts, couple of new pets and.. transmog items. reminds you of anything?

 

And to add to the already excellent point, Blizzard never actually pushes the cash shop on you. It never feels like a major part of the game with dev resources being spent almost exclusively on it.

 

EDIT:

its just bioware doesn't have nearly as big of a cushion as Blizzard does.

 

As a customer both games cost me the same amount of money per month, so I do not see why I shouldn't expect the same quantity and quality for my investment. Arguing that EA/Bioware have less resources and therefore I should expect less is laughable. EA has deep pockets and should they choose to do so they could invest quite a lot back into the game. They simply don't, and I also as simply do not accept that as a valid excuse.

Edited February 21, 2015 by SammuelSK

[Fleurdelis]

I agree with everything the OP says except I enjoy this game more than any othe so keep playing. I guess I am a glutton for punishment. I do wish the devs would pull their heads out of where ever it is currently and correct these glaring issues.

[Jeweledleah]

Yes, but the major difference is that when the expansion hits it brings with it major changes, alot of improvements (which is subjective, I admit) and they tend to reshape the world. SWTOR's are nothing like that, and I'll bluntly admit felt a bit like a rip off at $20. Nothing was added or done with SoR that couldn't have been a patch. Even compared to Makeb, it felt VERY content lite. Three days after it launched I had already run everything SoR had, and being work days it totalled up to fewer then 7 or 8 hours.

 

 

 

And to add to the already excellent point, Blizzard never actually pushes the cash shop on you. It never feels like a major part of the game with dev resources being spent almost exclusively on it.

 

EDIT:

 

As a customer both games cost me the same amount of money per month, so I do not see why I shouldn't expect the same quantity and quality for my investment. Arguing that EA/Bioware have less resources and therefore I should expect less is laughable. EA has deep pockets and should they choose to do so they could invest quite a lot back into the game. They simply don't, and I also as simply do not accept that as a valid excuse.

 

the only expansion that remade the world was Cataclysm. everything else just builds on existing stuff, borrowing liberally from other games on the market for inspiration.

that said... when was the last time you bought Blizzard expansion? are you talking about Draenor from hearsay or having actualy bought it. becasue at THREE TIMES THE COST, they better have more content.

 

moreover. yes, subscription is $15 a month. but lets compare the actual subscriber numbers, shall we. WoW at the lowest had 6mil. SWTOR at its pick didn't even hit 2 and at the moment seems to be hovering under a mil. it may cost you the same, but bioware and EA is a business. they cannot invest into the game more than they get out of it. hence stronger focus on cash shop.

 

however. once again, yes you should expect less upfront content for lower upfront cost. yes SoR was short even by most generous standards but if you are going to defend Blizzard with "all developers deal with delays" then how about looking at current video game market and paying attention to current typical costs for downloadable content vs whats IN that downlodable content, you will notice a disturbing trend. where costs are going up, while amount of content is getting smaller and smaller. inflation ftw! and compared to prior expansions? WoD at higher cost has the least amount of new content (which is probably part of the reason they are not allowing flight - if people could fly, they would notice just how small the zones really are). and before you say anything about character redesign - Cataclysm redesigned the entirety of Vanilla (including majority of quest chains) in addition to several new zones. for a lower upfront cost. SoR - $20 on release. WoD? $50 on release.

 

so yeah, bringing up an example of current WoW as significantly better as compared to SWTOR is ironic. since BOTH companies have been cutting corners, big time.

 

and becasue I feel like I have to reiterate. again. i'm NOT defending bioware developers. they have dropped a number of balls this expansion and they seem to be digging that hole even deeper. I'm just saying Blizzard isn't doing any better right now. and I say that as someone who actualy plays both games, though WoW with less regularity, because like I said... it takes me on average about 2 month out of a year to catch up on all the new stuff - which is about how long it takes me in ToR.. I just happen to have better luck with guilds when it comes to this game.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Jeweledleah

[FerkWork]

Since all the other MMO's lack lightsabers and Kephess, I will stick with this.

[branmakmuffin]

But we must distinguish general ennui from constructive criticism. When the Greenskeeper fails to keep the golf course in playable shape over the summer, you betcha I'm lodging a complaint. No one tells me, "If you don't like how they set up the course, play tennis!" Of course, I refer only to constructive criticism ... not bellyaching over irrelevant nuance.

As you say, you pay a tad bit more than $15 a month for a country club membership. But I guarantee you if you became dissatisfied enough with your country club, you would find another club. Same with TOR.

 

Not sure why you maintain your TOR subscription when you take a long break. For the county club, maybe you lose "seniority" or something. But with TOR, makes no sense. But. whatever.

[SammuelSK]

the only expansion that remade the world was Cataclysm. everything else just builds on existing stuff, borrowing liberally from other games on the market for inspiration.

that said... when was the last time you bought Blizzard expansion? are you talking about Draenor from hearsay or having actualy bought it. becasue at THREE TIMES THE COST, they better have more content.

 

moreover. yes, subscription is $15 a month. but lets compare the actual subscriber numbers, shall we. WoW at the lowest had 6mil. SWTOR at its pick didn't even hit 2 and at the moment seems to be hovering under a mil. it may cost you the same, but bioware and EA is a business. they cannot invest into the game more than they get out of it. hence stronger focus on cash shop.

 

however. once again, yes you should expect less upfront content for lower upfront cost. yes SoR was short even by most generous standards but if you are going to defend Blizzard with "all developers deal with delays" then how about looking at current video game market and paying attention to current typical costs for downloadable content vs whats IN that downlodable content, you will notice a disturbing trend. where costs are going up, while amount of content is getting smaller and smaller. inflation ftw! and compared to prior expansions? WoD at higher cost has the least amount of new content (which is probably part of the reason they are not allowing flight - if people could fly, they would notice just how small the zones really are). and before you say anything about character redesign - Cataclysm redesigned the entirety of Vanilla (including majority of quest chains) in addition to several new zones. for a lower upfront cost. SoR - $20 on release. WoD? $50 on release.

 

so yeah, bringing up an example of current WoW as significantly better as compared to SWTOR is ironic. since BOTH companies have been cutting corners, big time.

 

and becasue I feel like I have to reiterate. again. i'm NOT defending bioware developers. they have dropped a number of balls this expansion and they seem to be digging that hole even deeper. I'm just saying Blizzard isn't doing any better right now. and I say that as someone who actualy plays both games, though WoW with less regularity, because like I said... it takes me on average about 2 month out of a year to catch up on all the new stuff - which is about how long it takes me in ToR.. I just happen to have better luck with guilds when it comes to this game.

 

Makeb cost me half the price of SoR, $10 vs $20, and dropped with significantly more in the way of actual content. The story took more then a small handful of hours to complete and had two distinct arcs, Republic and Imperial, allowing some replayablity.

 

So yes, compared to WoW's expansions it was very content lite, but more importantly compared to its OWN first expansion it was content lite as well.

 

P.S. I've played all of WoW's expansions.

 

EDIT: Again, as a customer I don't need excuses. You charge me X amount, I expect Y amount of content. If you are not able to do so, then why exactly am I giving you my money? I am better off giving that money to someone who will deliver Y amount of content. Also, there are F2P games out there that deliver more content as well, with no monthly fee... so am I just paying for the license? Star Wars being the name on the tin is less and less of a reason to play this game, especially with the lack of any real FIXES let alone content.

Edited February 21, 2015 by SammuelSK

[Djiini]

Makeb cost me half the price of SoR, $10 vs $20, and dropped with significantly more in the way of actual content. The story took more then a small handful of hours to complete and had two distinct arcs, Republic and Imperial, allowing some replayablity.

 

So yes, compared to WoW's expansions it was very content lite, but more importantly compared to its OWN first expansion it was content lite as well.

 

P.S. I've played all of WoW's expansions.

 

Yeah, but Makeb's story had nothing to do with anything and wasn't central to the overarching plot of the entire saga like SoR was.

[SammuelSK]

Yeah, but Makeb's story had nothing to do with anything and wasn't central to the overarching plot of the entire saga like SoR was.

 

Oh please, you could replace Revan with generic Jedi #1 and it wouldn't have changed the story significantly. Emperor captures Bob, Bob dies, Bob's body comes back and mistakenly raises the emperor. Woops! The end.

 

Did Revan even have five minutes of dialog this expansion?

Edited February 21, 2015 by SammuelSK

[Djiini]

Oh please, you could replace Revan with generic Jedi #1 and it wouldn't have changed the story significantly. Emperor captures Bob, Bob dies, Bob's body comes back and mistakenly raises the emperor. Woops! The end.

 

Yeah true, I can see how Makeb was setting up for the next major expansion by comparison.

[SammuelSK]

Yeah true, I can see how Makeb was setting up for the next major expansion by comparison.

 

Except SoR was the expansion, it also was twice the cost of Makeb, so it being a setup for me to buy something else down the road isn't actually a good thing.

Edited February 21, 2015 by SammuelSK

[Djiini]

Except SoR was the expansion, it also was twice the cost of Makeb, so it being a setup for me to buy something else down the road isn't actually a good thing.

 

Right, and there's going to be another one, and we're finally going to get into a conflict with the Emperor.

TBH I feel it was worth the price just for the 12x XP, but that's me, I liked the story besides.

[SammuelSK]

Right, and there's going to be another one, and we're finally going to get into a conflict with the Emperor.

TBH I feel it was worth the price just for the 12x XP, but that's me, I liked the story besides.

 

That's nice. I don't. By any measurable statistic we got less content for a high price tag. Where we got two distinct storylines with the last expansion, here we got a single one, that has no real differences between the republic or imperial sides. Ontop of that what we did get is laughably short.

 

As for the storyline, its fanboy bait. Hell, it got me excited too.

[Djiini]

That's nice. I don't. By any measurable statistic we got less content for a high price tag. Where we got two distinct storylines with the last expansion, here we got a single one, that has no real differences between the republic or imperial sides. Ontop of that what we did get is laughably short.

 

As for the storyline, its fanboy bait. Hell, it got me excited too.

 

Refresh my memory--I know that the two Tython and Korriban FPs were pre-expansion, were the Manaan and Rakata FPs part of it or not?

 

Also, they don't have an excuse for the Republic and Empire to share a story next expansion (if they wanted to do that, the truce should've persisted past the end of SoR, but the fact it didn't suggests a different plan).

Edited February 21, 2015 by Djiini

[Sala]

At this point I'm just killing time until Black Desert drops, which is still a while away here in the states. I don't expect it to be perfect, but the ability to do content outside of what's scripted, the ability to explore, and the ability to design seem much more likely to hold my interest than being stuck on story or end game as I am here. Anyway, to the specifics of what I've seen.

 

1) PvP completely and utterly ignored. This has never been something that the majority have been vocal for getting real attention, but it was something important to a large number of players and which most players delve into here and there, yet the devs paid it no mind, then told players flat out that nothing of value was coming in the near future. At least they were honest, but the responses to the community were few and far between. Their final response, that there is nothing major coming anywhere on the horizon is just sad.

 

2) Persistent bugs. Most notably as of now there is the major issue with the Underlurker and to a lesser extent Sword Squadron, Torque, Cortanni, etc. The problems have been pointed out in great detail--problems which affect almost half of the total encounters in these new ops--yet despite this, the fixes have been pathetic. Months to fix such glaring issues is unacceptable in any game that wishes to show that it values its player base. Other bugs still remain, despite being well documented and reported.

 

3) GSF dead in the water. I've literally never touched it other than the tutorial, but to have invested major development time into it, get players involved with it, and then leave it to stagnate is again, just boggling. Player input as to features for it that have been touted since GSF was first mentioned have been completely ignored, and it sits in limbo, with no tie-in to the rest of the game. A completely wasted piece of the game.

 

4) The CM slot machines. Again, something that I never touched and was not affected by, but the way that the devs and community representatives handled this was horrid.

 

5) Taking away end game rewards for the majority of end game players. I love the difficulty of Ravagers & ToS. There is definitely value in having Ops that are challenging mechanic-wise even in story mode. That said, with the abysmal snail's pace that is content roll-out in this game, to make it so that only the clearing of these two ops, or HM/NiM of 55 content, which is still beyond the scope of about 75% of the end game population, rewards the highest level of comms has killed pug ops, something that even progression players find fun to jump into at times. Let's be honest, the Ultimate comm gear is pretty much garbage, even more so than the old 180 gear was, but casual players enjoy having that same sense of progression in gearing that more focused progression players do. If nothing else, the higher level gear makes dailies and later questing when the next tier rolls out that much easier.

 

The players have emphatically spoken as to what they want, yet the devs just do not care. EC NiM could still destroy even the most geared players, but things like EV NiM gave guilds and pugs an easy way to get into end game content, learn some fights, and be rewarded for it. It's great that HM/NiM S&V/TfB are still beyond the reach of most, making it viable content in terms of knowing how to execute in Ops, but to so thoroughly cut off the majority of players from end game rewards of any kind is just saying that they don't care about what the community wants.

 

Adding further to the is the fact that 16M ToS/Ravagers STILL do not drop proper rewards. There is no incentive to help a pug group through with established players can stick to running with the guild and clear for reward payouts that are scaled to the number of group members in 8M content.

 

Lastly, 60HMs are brutally difficult for most players, and those who do clear get little in the way of rewards for doing so. To top that off, there have been issues with Weekly HM quest logs being reset, not giving credit, etc, and nothing done to make good for the losses.

 

6) The devs/staff lack consistency. We see staff shuffled around and moving on to other things. We see EAWare starting entire projects that take away from SW development, only to mothball those projects after wasting resources that could have been put in here. We get lovely what the hell moments like the ability to post images in the Community section suddenly being taken away after three years of being able to post there because "it was never intended", despite the robust community involvement there because of the media that was shared. If EAWare were a local shop, I certainly wouldn't take my car there for service because I'd have no idea what I'd be getting from one day to the next.

 

I just feel that as days go by here the interaction between the staff and the players becomes more and more disconnected. I really don't see any other conclusion that this when most recently players were teased with "something big", only to get a splicing of cinema from the Warrior story line as the big reveal. The new road map is paltry and the content that we are being teased with for the future is yet again more same-for-every-class story, something that becomes stagnant very, very quickly when leveling multiple toons. I

 

Everyday I find myself having to come up with reasons to justify staying subbed, and I think I'm running out of ways to convince myself. How about the rest of you?

 

4 star post. Thank you.

[Darth_Wicked]

Yeah, but Makeb's story had nothing to do with anything and wasn't central to the overarching plot of the entire saga like SoR was.

 

You gotta be kidding. That or you hardly play this game at all.

[Reno_Tarshil]

You gotta be kidding. That or you hardly play this game at all.

 

Damn those Dread Masters.

[Darth_Wicked]

Damn those Dread Masters.

 

Abandon... YOUR MIND!

 

[NogueiraA]

It pushed me away already, I have 1 month left on my sub and it won't be renewed.

The performance issues, bad fps inside warzones and operations is the major issue for me, while I play gw2 and bf4 with 70+ fps in crowded fights. Playing warzones with 20 fps kills any good experience.

 

Clsed beta SoR was a big mistake, unnaceptable bugs.

Marvel heroes does everything players wants about outfits and cosmetics, the game is very polished.

While swtor can't have a simple jedi robe.

I already quit my raid groups, sold everything that will become obsolete in a next xpac.

[annabethchase]

I have no problem with the $20 Shadows of Revan expansion. What I do have a problem with is the $15 a month sub for 3.1. 3.1 did not have sufficient content for 3 month of subs. The story driven expansion was fine, it's the mmo content in the 3.0 and 3.1 patches that isn't up to par.

 

Quick fix, bump up the rewards for HM FP's, groupfinder, and SM ops. That will also somewhat fix the difficulty problem by getting more people geared.

[lokimogor]

It pushed me away already, I have 1 month left on my sub and it won't be renewed.

The performance issues, bad fps inside warzones and operations is the major issue for me, while I play gw2 and bf4 with 70+ fps in crowded fights. Playing warzones with 20 fps kills any good experience.

 

Clsed beta SoR was a big mistake, unnaceptable bugs.

Marvel heroes does everything players wants about outfits and cosmetics, the game is very polished.

While swtor can't have a simple jedi robe.

I already quit my raid groups, sold everything that will become obsolete in a next xpac.

 

Marvel Hero's is so simplified that my 4 year old sister can be a super star there.