Time for a bit of rage....

[ZETA_SCORPII]

Maybe SWTOR is trying to be like Wildstar now?

[FlyinSpaghetti]

Maybe SWTOR is trying to be like Wildstar now?

 

For the HM flashpoints due to no lockouts they should be tough but at the same time have a reward worthy of the challenge not crap massassi or rishi maze drops and a mere 10 ultimate comms a week for three runs. Why would anyone queue for that when they can do a 8 man ravagers run and not only grab some massassi but some token stuff too?

[MisterBlackJack]

I want to add a little here.

From MY veiwpoint - back then Hardmode flashpoints was designed to make sure that people at 55 level have content to complete and get their deserved reward. Yeah, it wasn't good. Buts DO we actually have to rip our as*es to get those?

I don't think so.

Also those Flashpoints was balanced for ALL classes.

People was ENJOYING those Flashpoints.

They provided decent challenge, yes. But they WAS FUN!!!

 

But what do we have now?

 

Absolutely unbalanced Flashpoints that was tested by "some" people that obviously didn't even bother to actually TEST them.

 

Why do i have to gather team and use Teamspek just to complete REGULAR Flashpoint???

Its not even operation - IT"S A FREAKING FLASHPOINT!

 

How can Flashpoint be harder than operation??? Even HM 55 operations are not that hard as 60 Flashpoints!!

 

WHAT WAS YOU THINKING, BIOWARE???

 

First. These are NOT REGULAR Flashpoints these are HARDMODE, hence they are intended to be....wait for it..... hard. Requiring coordination and communications.

 

Second of course 55 is not as hard as 60 FPs because everyone is way overgeared for them and 5 levels higher. Run HM DF, DP and TFB in the correct level gear at 55 then come back to me and say they are easier than these FPs

 

Third, NONE of the 55 Flashpoints were really a challenge outside of the final boss in Cadimemu and that's only due to the RNG of the fight. I was bored with those sets of FPs shortly after finishing them. I rather have something like these flashpoints which are heavy mechanics check and has the group keep moving.

 

The real issue is that players are use to not constantly moving around in Fps as pre-3.0 many of the classes had to stand still to do serious damage (TK/Lightning Sage/Sorcs, Commandos marks Snipers ect) now most if not all the classes have a spec that can easily move while on the run which now opens Bioware up to developing ops that keep people on there toes.

 

So the question we should be asking is not for bioware to tune down the FPs, but rather what are we going to do to get people up to the level of the flashpoints.

Edited February 16, 2015 by MisterBlackJack

[MisterBlackJack]

Blood Hunt's first boss in HM is a cluster ****. I ran it with my guildies in Vent and still had a hard time. I'm not an "Elitist", but I'm far from being a scrub and I found that first fight to be challenging......and stupid. I mean, why have HM Operation mechanics in a HM FP?

 

because it's fun and something to strive for?

[wainot-keel]

because it's fun and something to strive for?

 

These are flashpoints. Period. Group finder stuff. A random average group of players should have a decent chance to clear this. Currently, not the case with Blood Hunt. Not by far.

For hard stuff, we have the hard mode operations, which only a handful of guilds have fully clear them. That's the place to prove one's awesomeness.

 

These flashpoints should provide just a bit of challenge and be fun for casual players (specially considering the crap rewards). They shouldn't be a source of frustration.

[MisterBlackJack]

These are flashpoints. Period. Group finder stuff. A random average group of players should have a decent chance to clear this. Currently, not the case with Blood Hunt. Not by far.

For hard stuff, we have the hard mode operations, which only a handful of guilds have fully clear them. That's the place to prove one's awesomeness.

 

These flashpoints should provide just a bit of challenge and be fun for casual players (specially considering the crap rewards). They shouldn't be a source of frustration.

 

Why shouldn't fps provide challenging content? Its endgame content just like ops. They can be a place to prove your awesomeness as well as prepare players for operation level content.

[kojottt]

These are flashpoints. Period. Group finder stuff. A random average group of players should have a decent chance to clear this. Currently, not the case with Blood Hunt. Not by far.

For hard stuff, we have the hard mode operations, which only a handful of guilds have fully clear them. That's the place to prove one's awesomeness.

 

These flashpoints should provide just a bit of challenge and be fun for casual players (specially considering the crap rewards). They shouldn't be a source of frustration.

 

So that 'hard' sign means they are as easy as tacticals?

Also ops are in GF and some people have still problems clearing them

[psandak]

Devs should replace or supplement recommended gear with recommended DPS/HPS (not sure of anything for tanks) since two people on the same gear can differ by a couple thousand dps in performance based on skill and experience. Telling a querer they probably should dummy parse >3500 or whatever for something would be more informative than stating what gear they should have.

 

Lots of other factors of course (eg long set up dot classes vs burst in that first BH fight will make a difference) but perhaps this would change people's expectations when they queue for content.

 

The problem I have with this is that parsing against a dummy does not adequately represent your ability. Most of the HMFP and Ops bosses have don't stand in stupid mechanics. A DPSer can dummy parse 10k but if he stands in stupid, I don't want'em.

 

Getting back to the OP's request...

 

I said it in another thread: recommended rating for group content is like recommended system specs for software - Will a Intell Core 2 Duo 2GHz with 2GB ram and a 256MB vid card run SWTOR? Yes. Will it be a good experience? probably not. Can a group of 4 characters in 178 rating gear complete a 60HMFP? Yes. Is it going to be enjoyable? Probably not.

[wainot-keel]

Why shouldn't fps provide challenging content? Its endgame content just like ops. They can be a place to prove your awesomeness as well as prepare players for operation level content.

 

Flashpoints are not like ops, not even close. Not sure what you mean they're like ops.

To prepare yourself for operations, you do the story mode operations, or the old ones. Not flashpoints. They are waste of time if you're interested in raiding.

 

And what prepares the average casual player using group finder for this flashpoint ? Nothing. No one. It only leaves people out. Those who are truly interested in hard PvE stuff, don't do these flashpoints regularly. One time maybe if they're OCD about their achievements, if that much ?

 

 

So that 'hard' sign means they are as easy as tacticals?

Also ops are in GF and some people have still problems clearing them

 

There is a very long way between the tacticals and the difficulty of this one. There can be a middle ground you know. Anything between that would be harder and worth trying without leaving a bad taste in people's mouth.

[Gardimuer]

And as a melee all these voids are not really bringing fun... having to move is ok, but sometimes it feels like being on the run constantly... on the other hand, this is training for a lot of the current operation bosses too...

 

The bosses in Bloodhunt are definitely a lot easier for ranged DPS classes.

 

First boss: Melee will lose DPS time if the adds happen to appear in/jump into the AoEs.

Second boss: Melee lose DPS time while having to spread out the red circles that appear under everyone's feet.

Third boss: The boss jumps around to different platforms, so melee have to waste time chasing her.

 

For the HM flashpoints due to no lockouts they should be tough but at the same time have a reward worthy of the challenge not crap massassi or rishi maze drops and a mere 10 ultimate comms a week for three runs. Why would anyone queue for that when they can do a 8 man ravagers run and not only grab some massassi but some token stuff too?

 

I have to agree with this. I enjoy the new FPs because they present an interesting challenge, but the gear drops are all vendor crap and are barely worth picking up.

 

Back in the day Lost Island HM was about as challenging as these new FPs, but the difference was that LI actually dropped good gear: Rakata tokens that were the best gear available outside of the HM ops at the time. Pug groups had the same level of difficulty trying to complete LI (maybe more), but the gear drops made it seem actually worth trying. I bet that a lot of the crying over these FPs would evaporate if the drops were worth trying for.

[FlyinSpaghetti]

These are flashpoints. Period. Group finder stuff. A random average group of players should have a decent chance to clear this. Currently, not the case with Blood Hunt. Not by far.

For hard stuff, we have the hard mode operations, which only a handful of guilds have fully clear them. That's the place to prove one's awesomeness.

 

These flashpoints should provide just a bit of challenge and be fun for casual players (specially considering the crap rewards). They shouldn't be a source of frustration.

 

I think the issue the challenge doesn't meet the current purpose for HM flashpoints. Pre 2.0 the purpose of the HM's were to compliment SM operations and LI HM was a good example of this as it was a huge challenge but getting the final boss down meant you could roll of a columi mainhand and rakata chest piece. It's purpose was to finish gearing your character alongside other flashpoints and EV/KP SM to columi ready to jump into SM EC along with EV/KP HM (or NiM) so you could then get fully rakata geared and move into EC HM. It was also a competency check as the mechanics were leaps and bounds ahead of EV/KP in any mode, if you couldn't do LI HM then IMO you were no good to step into HM EC despite previous HM clears. It was basically how guilds checked players were good enough before the whole achievement system.

 

Now though the purpose has flipped, the purpose of FP's is now to gear your character from junk levelling gear to massassi gear so you can then jump into SM ops a little over the minimal requirement but due to unoptimized mods not leaps and bounds over it. However running them for this purpose seems futile considering as yavin gear is good enough for at the very least 8m ravagers if not both ops which not only drops massassi but the first lot of token pieces, why go through the challenge when an 8 man operation is significantly easier and drops better loot.

 

I have no issue with them making HM FP's tough, but if they do at least give them a similar purpose LI HM had. At the end of the day they should be for gearing "at" endgame not gearing "for" endgame because that's what yavin gear is for.

 

Edit: The guy above this post gets it.

Edited February 16, 2015 by FlyinSpaghetti

[FerkWork]

As probable mentioned, If you're having a difficulty with first boss in BH there is ways to cheese it just like Tython. This boss will probable be toned down either with hp of adds or enrage timer to bring it on line with the others bosses. 2nd boss is slightly difficult for healers (I can see them toning down Jos execute but nothing else) but is doable if DPS are moving and focusing fire one of them preferable Jos, thus giving range an advantage especially sorcs specced with healing bubble, Third boss is the same as tactical really. BoR besides bonus boss is pretty much a cake walk once you figure out the mechanics (One shotted all bosses on first try of a pug run). IMHO HM Fps are below SM ops in pecking order and should reflect that in difficulty as they can be run without lockout all day long.

 

Therefore, rewards since I get my gear from ops or comms( rolling PT tank need my deceiver implants ) and most end game raiders do, I would love to see more vanity rewards and collecting. I'm perplexed that many of the items that you can collect in tactical can't be collected in HM. I would love to see this: All HM bonus bosses guaranteed deco drop that drops in tactical version (Korriban Statue of Ancient Slave for example) All HM bosses in Manaan should drop a research data and relics for KI and AoT. While some may not like collecting vanity items, I for one would run them more often to get decos. Heck throw in the pets as well. HM fps imho should be for fun challenge than gearing and what other way would be fun than have fun things to collect. But that's my 2cents and others might disagree.

 

As for "elitists", OP, I second Joran. Ignore them, many people talk a good talk in this game but usually come up short compared to the good players that have a good attitude and learned how to play. Funny thing is they love to tell even us experienced players what to do even when we know more than these bad apples. Practice and learning is what makes a good player not being demeaning to others and a bad team player.

If you're on JC I'm always down to help you down these FPS.

(Apologies for spelling and grammar, typing on phone)

Edited February 17, 2015 by FerkWork

[Kantalahir]

Dear elitist, press G, then the who tab. Hover your mouse below to see how many people are queuing for the new 60HM FPs. Now, compare the number with pre-3.0 attendance. Think.

 

Another idea. Open group finder. Check Blood Hunt HM. Queue. Do it for 10h. Tell us the result.

 

I do hope, you loved the challenge

 

Now, I am also taking popcorn and am waiting for you telling us, the nabs, how it went.