Grayseven Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) Is this right for 16 man Story Mode? Seems like an awful lot for some reason. Edited February 13, 2015 by Grayseven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 And to top it off a wipe forces everyone to rez outside the instance because the Boss keeps the fight active. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 So yeah, 16 man Torque is still broken apparently. The entire raid had to exit and reset the instance because the boss killed anyone who entered the instance. The 5.8 million hp is entirely too much for PuG's in my opinion, especially with the kind of rampant cluster having 16 bodies in that small of an area without voice comm, but maybe this is how it's supposed to be? It'd be nice to know one way or the other whether or not the HP are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pietrastor Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 So yeah, 16 man Torque is still broken apparently. The entire raid had to exit and reset the instance because the boss killed anyone who entered the instance. The 5.8 million hp is entirely too much for PuG's in my opinion, especially with the kind of rampant cluster having 16 bodies in that small of an area without voice comm, but maybe this is how it's supposed to be?Obviously it's not how it's suppoused to be, 8man Torque has 1.8m or so and you can see instantly the difference how much faster his HP goes down when you swap between 8/16 modes. It just shows how badly things were tuned for 16, hardly the only example, Bulo 16 was a wipe fest too. We killed today hitting enrage at 16%, only because healers managed to keep enough people alive to burn down while on enrage. Our best attempt was about 4% before that (hitting enrage and then burning last few). No, we're obviously not HM/NiM progression guild but we have decent players with decent gear and we're still hitting enrage. Never happened to us on 8man, you can actually almost ignore console mechanic on 8man cause his HP goes down so fast... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 Yeah, we once again ended up splitting the raid for Torque and reforming for 16 man to finish the last two bosses off. We had PuGs in the group who had never done Master/Blaster or Coratanni and we only wiped once on each before finishing it off. Some of those PuGs had 39k HP before bolster for crying out loud and we managed to get through every other boss. 8 man is a cake walk after butting heads against the 16 man version even with the vent fire doing normal damage. Shoots Lasers and Dangerous Fire devices take the entire rDPS to bring down in decent time on 16 man and with 5.8 million HP I swear we are dealing with health pools for 16 man HM...which you aren't going to complete with group finder PuGs. The more I deal with crap like this, the more frustrated I get and the closer to chucking the game out the airlock I get. I'm actually ticked that I run a 6 month sub because I'm stuck until July before I can actually unsub. The only important thing in this entire patch for a number of guild mates and myself were working operations. I'm tired of constantly exiting the instance to reset it to get around a bug. The Quality Control on the PoS game is awful to the point I wonder if there is even a QA process at BW Austin. It's stuff like this that make me realize that they don't play their own game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 Anything? Is this intended? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beragis Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Based on the lack of comments on this from Bioware, I fear it's exactly how it's intended, and I am beginning to wonder if the developers have the tools needed to simulate an encounter for ops scalling . I am seriously getting tired of running 16 man, breaking up into two 8 man teams for Torque and reforming as 16 man for the rest. My OPS group can down Torgue so fast in 8 man that we can practically ignore the terminals. Yet we can't down Torque fast enough in 16 man to beat the enrage timer. The health of Torque, Shoots Lasers and the Dangerous Fire Device are so high that our group hits the enrage timer usually around 10 to 15 percent, when there are no deaths, and often over 25%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 If I remember this correctly, 8 man SM Torque has around 1.8 million health and the adds are around 100k. I'm not certain what the add health is for 16 man SM, but a 4 million health increase between 8 and 16 when you only add 6 DPS seems way too excessive considering you only increase DPS by 2.5 times the 8 man. If you were to do the math, the health increase just from DPS scaling would be around 4.5 million health instead of the 5.8 million currently seen in 16 man SM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jojomagro Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) Which one seems broken? The mode that allows you to skip the mechanic (consoles and droids) or the mode that makes you use the consoles? He breaks the fourth console at 3 minutes causing a wipe on sm. 5.8m/10 is 580000 damage per dps over three minutes, droid health is neglectable imo since AoEs can usualy kill them. 580000/3/60 is 3222 dps per dps. Dps shouldn't struggle to put out 3250 which, imo, is reasonable to expect from even a pug. If you do the fight properly (using repair droids) it is still well within reason to have his hp at 5.8m 8m is the one that's hilariously broken imo. Edited February 25, 2015 by Jojomagro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GopherLuV Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Which one seems broken? The mode that allows you to skip the mechanic (consoles and droids) or the mode that makes you use the consoles? He breaks the fourth console at 3 minutes causing a wipe on sm. 5.8m/10 is 580000 damage per dps over three minutes, droid health is neglectable imo since AoEs can usualy kill them. 580000/3/60 is 3222 dps per dps. Dps shouldn't struggle to put out 3250 which, imo, is reasonable to expect from even a pug. If you do the fight properly (using repair droids) it is still well within reason to have his hp at 5.8m 8m is the one that's hilariously broken imo. I mean I'm all for believing that pugs can put that out.. it's honestly not hard.. but... in reality? I doubt many casual puggers pull more than 2500... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 Which one seems broken? The mode that allows you to skip the mechanic (consoles and droids) or the mode that makes you use the consoles? He breaks the fourth console at 3 minutes causing a wipe on sm. 5.8m/10 is 580000 damage per dps over three minutes, droid health is neglectable imo since AoEs can usualy kill them. 580000/3/60 is 3222 dps per dps. Dps shouldn't struggle to put out 3250 which, imo, is reasonable to expect from even a pug. If you do the fight properly (using repair droids) it is still well within reason to have his hp at 5.8m 8m is the one that's hilariously broken imo. Well, it's all fine to talk about 3222 DPS against a dummy, but in a fight where you have to A) Keep moving to avoid the AoE effects of Floor Vents and Dangerous Fire Devices and B) Split off DPS to take out adds you aren't going to have very many DPS pulling 3222 DPS on the boss for this fight in 16 man SM. Since SM Operations seem to be balanced around players having 186 gear sets, 8 man SM can be challenging for groups in that gear...but still doable. No way will you get enough DPS on 16 man SM to take out the adds that have to be taken out while still putting out enough DPS to do 5.8 million damage to the boss in 186 gear. Common sense would tell you that having an increase of 3 times the health of a boss between 8 man and 16 man story mode when you only increase your DPS by 2.5 times...not counting the increase in add health...is a little over the top. We won't even discuss the stuff the Dev's keep doing to make melee DPS almost worthless in some of these fights. If you have half your raid as melee DPS they will be putting out even less damage on the boss because they spend so much time dodging AoE effects that always seem to pop up right where the boss is at. So no, 8 man is right where it should be for a SM group in 186 gear and 16 man is broken because the boss has entirely too much health for a SM operation boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireFoxed Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) Well, it's all fine to talk about 3222 DPS against a dummy, but in a fight where you have to A) Keep moving to avoid the AoE effects of Floor Vents and Dangerous Fire Devices and B) Split off DPS to take out adds you aren't going to have very many DPS pulling 3222 DPS on the boss for this fight in 16 man SM. Since SM Operations seem to be balanced around players having 186 gear sets, 8 man SM can be challenging for groups in that gear...but still doable. No way will you get enough DPS on 16 man SM to take out the adds that have to be taken out while still putting out enough DPS to do 5.8 million damage to the boss in 186 gear. Common sense would tell you that having an increase of 3 times the health of a boss between 8 man and 16 man story mode when you only increase your DPS by 2.5 times...not counting the increase in add health...is a little over the top. We won't even discuss the stuff the Dev's keep doing to make melee DPS almost worthless in some of these fights. If you have half your raid as melee DPS they will be putting out even less damage on the boss because they spend so much time dodging AoE effects that always seem to pop up right where the boss is at. So no, 8 man is right where it should be for a SM group in 186 gear and 16 man is broken because the boss has entirely too much health for a SM operation boss. You seem to be conflating 'difficult for the average pug' with 'broken'. 16m torque might be harder than its 8m counterpart, but it's certainly not broken. For example, I can think of several reasons why 16m boss health should not be a straight 2.5 x multiplier (1) with the extra people, it's more likely the group will have more class buffs and abilities, thereby increasing total dps (2) 16m gf bolsters so you don't have to worry about augments or having a bunch of undergeared people (3) the extra people means 1 or 2 accidental deaths become less critical to successfully completing the fight (4) melee dps has the same disadvantage in 8m and 16m, but with a 16m group the chances of getting all melee dps is much less. In fact, I'd say 8m torque is too easy compared to the other fights (besides sparky). Edited February 26, 2015 by FireFoxed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GopherLuV Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 We won't even discuss the stuff the Dev's keep doing to make melee DPS almost worthless in some of these fights. If you have half your raid as melee DPS they will be putting out even less damage on the boss because they spend so much time dodging AoE effects that always seem to pop up right where the boss is at. So no, 8 man is right where it should be for a SM group in 186 gear and 16 man is broken because the boss has entirely too much health for a SM operation boss. As someone else said, you are bolstered in GF 16 mans... and from what i've seen, bolstered to roughly 186/192 mix + augmented... So, gear is honestly completely irrelevant.. As for the melee.. yea the fight sucks, but if your a good melee, theres no reason you shouldn't pull off an easy 3500+ on that fight.. Also being a ranged, I honestly don't move... when I get knocked back I run forward 5m to get back in range of the very back of the room but other than that, I pick a spot and never again click a movement key... so it's basically the same as parsing, minus a 3-4 s interupt from the knockback.. If you have a single melee you really shouldn't ever see fire in the back.. A big issue on that fight will be people hitting AoE's that are in their normal single target rotation and killing the repair droids (i've done it many times..).. As for the ads I've never seen them up long enough to even warrant any real DPS on them (like on my sage, I rarely use a GCD to pop the DoT on them, just turbulance the boss then proc everything onto the ad, he's dead...) The dangerous fire devices.. if your in range of them your doing something wrong (/your tank is doing something wrong..) because it's really not that hard to move away from a 5m stationary AoE.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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