ProfessorWalsh Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Hello BioWare... Considering I have actually been right every time I have given you guys a suggestion. (Called the over-abundance of Imperials due to a poor marketing strategy for example.) I hope this one doesn't fly below the radar. You have done melee in TOR wrong. Especially you have done the Jedi and Sith melee wrong. In TOR ranged combat is preferable. ... That isn't how it works in Star Wars. ... Nobody in the novels laughs at the idea of a Jedi or Sith pulling a lightsaber and charging into a gunfight. Usually the people using the guns find themselves in a very bad place when that happens and usually their guns are less than useless against such targets as the Jedi begin turning their weapons against them to devastating effect. You have given the Jedi the (somewhat real-world based) disadvantages of being melee. Of having to close, of being lower damage because of that, or being able to move out of melee range more easily. But you have given them none of the advantages of being melee. Advantages? Wait what? Well, for one, when a melee gets into melee with your allies realistically you can't lob a grenade at them without blowing your own allies up. Realistically you can't shoot at them while they are in melee without shooting your allies. Things of that nature. This is a common mistake made in MMORPGs in that ranged classes have all of the advantages of ranged attacks but melee never have the advantages of melee attacks. Currently it is simply far easier in PVP to play a ranged class. This should be addressed. BioWare: Give melee combatants some advantages over ranged attackers. Increase the defense (significantly) of a melee combatant against ranged attacks if he is actually in melee combat with someone. Something, make me come up with a list of Pros and Cons for each. Currently all I have is a list of Pros for ranged combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidank Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 (edited) I like how you say you're right about everything because you predicted a lot of inquisitors, but then you propose making jedis/sith warriors (the most played class on my server) stronger because you know, that wouldn't cause population imbalance or anything. And the advantage is that melee instants don't get interrupted or knocked back like casted spells do. There is only one advantage that ranged have in this game, and that's because of the maps, not the mechanics. Edited December 25, 2011 by Aidank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilleto Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 shadows have : Force pull, force slow, Force wave, Force stun. Sprint, You can spec for a instant force lift. Deflection, mass mind control , mind control, REsilience, spinning kick. .... and vanish.... and at level 50 with level 52 valor.. there isnt a single class in this game at the moment that i have a issue with. I personally find no class vastly overpowering mine. I find players not well versed in MMORPG combat/pvp tend to find things not in their favor as "op" im not saying that some range arent...oddly strong..but their are more than enough ways to counter them.. I clearly dont speak for all melee.. but for shadow of any spec .. we have more than enough advantages over range and most classes in this game. All specs of shadow are melee. I suggest you do a bit more research....or ya know.. play another melee class or something.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorWalsh Posted December 25, 2011 Author Share Posted December 25, 2011 I like how you say you're right about everything because you predicted a lot of inquisitors, but then you propose making jedis/sith warriors (the most played class on my server) stronger because you know, that wouldn't cause population imbalance or anything. I called a lot more than Inquisitors. I called a general population imbalance... Which BioWare swore wouldn't happen (Note: It did.) I called a number of issues with ranged vs melee in an MMO environment and how this didn't fall in-line with Star Wars and, surprise, it did. I called BioWare on deviating from their initial design statements... Then, surprise, they did. I also called a lot more. At this point my track record kind of proves that I pretty much know exactly what I am talking about. And the advantage is that melee instants don't get interrupted or knocked back like casted spells do. Two words for ya: Master Strike - Our strongest melee ability can be interrupted. Also, we can't get knocked back? Really? That is odd... I am pretty sure I get knocked back plenty. I get knocked back, then I can't deal damage, then I am rooted, then I am stunned, then I am... You get the idea. There is only one advantage that ranged have in this game, and that's because of the maps, not the mechanics. Then they need to produce some maps that don't cater to ranged attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kricys Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 I do pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyImTempzz Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 I loled... i play a BH as a main (42) but have a Sith Jug (12) and on my jug i have no problems with keeping on people in the WZ's... Tbh i have more damage uptime than my BH does because of force leap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorWalsh Posted December 25, 2011 Author Share Posted December 25, 2011 shadows have : Force pull, force slow, Force wave, Force stun. Sprint, You can spec for a instant force lift. Deflection, mass mind control , mind control, REsilience, spinning kick. .... and vanish.... and at level 50 with level 52 valor.. there isnt a single class in this game at the moment that i have a issue with. I personally find no class vastly overpowering mine. I find players not well versed in MMORPG combat/pvp tend to find things not in their favor as "op" im not saying that some range arent...oddly strong..but their are more than enough ways to counter them.. I clearly dont speak for all melee.. but for shadow of any spec .. we have more than enough advantages over range and most classes in this game. All specs of shadow are melee. I suggest you do a bit more research....or ya know.. play another melee class or something.. Yes. Shadows are fine. They aren't melee classes so much as Stealth classes that use melee. Take a look at another class... Like... Sentinel. Sentinel has: 1. No Force Pull. 2. No knock back. 3. No non-channeled Stuns save for one off of Force Leap if one is that tree. 4. A root if one specs in the combat tree. Shadows are fine, Sentinels, Marauders, Juggernauts, and Guardians? Not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kricys Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Have you seen what marauders do at 50? Want some screenshots? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorWalsh Posted December 25, 2011 Author Share Posted December 25, 2011 I loled... i play a BH as a main (42) but have a Sith Jug (12) and on my jug i have no problems with keeping on people in the WZ's... Tbh i have more damage uptime than my BH does because of force leap... Sorry, but I, and everyone who has ever played a Sentinel, Guardian, Marauder, or Juggernaut disagree. Force Leap? Really. Your big secret. Ever heard of knock back? Root? Stun? Mez? You know all of the tools that shut Force Leap down? I can't comment how many times I have attacked someone, been knocked back, just to Force Leap back onto them and be knocked back again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kricys Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 (edited) Sorry, but I, and everyone who has ever played a Sentinel, Guardian, Marauder, or Juggernaut disagree. Force Leap? Really. Your big secret. Ever heard of knock back? Root? Stun? Mez? You know all of the tools that shut Force Leap down? I can't comment how many times I have attacked someone, been knocked back, just to Force Leap back onto them and be knocked back again. Buddy, you're doin it wrong. Edited December 25, 2011 by Kricys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidank Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 At this point my track record kind of proves that I pretty much know exactly what I am talking about. Nope it means you make some pretty easy calls that everyone else did as well. Two words for ya: Master Strike - Our strongest melee ability can be interrupted. Try every skill in my spellbook bar affliction Also, we can't get knocked back? Really? That is odd... I am pretty sure I get knocked back plenty. I get knocked back, then I can't deal damage, then I am rooted, then I am stunned, then I am... You get the idea. You know what I meant, your spells don't take twice as long to cast when you have a sorc beating on you like sorcs do with a mara beating on them- and every other class can be stunned and rooted just like you can. Then they need to produce some maps that don't cater to ranged attacks. no argument here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorWalsh Posted December 25, 2011 Author Share Posted December 25, 2011 (edited) Have you seen what marauders do at 50? Want some screenshots? lol Yup. Rare players who can make the class perform do not erase statistical facts regarding the tools the class has and/or the lack thereof. Heck I make it into the top three regularly. Doesn't mean that the class isn't broken, because I make it into the top three on other classes without even trying. Ever seen what an Operative or a Scoundrel does at 50? Want some screenshots? lol Because I promise you, it ain't pretty, and considering the Sentinel or Marauder will stay stun locked the entire time the Sentinel and Marauder won't look so hot during that fight. Edited December 25, 2011 by ProfessorWalsh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kricys Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff435/Swsss/Screenshot_2011-12-25_10_18_35_664134.jpg http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff435/Swsss/Screenshot_2011-12-23_22_39_42_438733.jpg http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff435/Swsss/Screenshot_2011-12-23_17_06_34_642496.jpg Just because you have no idea how to play marauder/sentinel doesn't mean the rest of us have issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorWalsh Posted December 25, 2011 Author Share Posted December 25, 2011 (edited) http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff435/Swsss/Screenshot_2011-12-25_10_18_35_664134.jpg http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff435/Swsss/Screenshot_2011-12-23_22_39_42_438733.jpg http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff435/Swsss/Screenshot_2011-12-23_17_06_34_642496.jpg Just because you have no idea how to play marauder/sentinel doesn't mean the rest of us have issues. See above. You aren't addressing any facts only picking out specific moments. The rest of you do have issues. Look at the Sentinel and Marauder class forums. Again, because some of us can make the class work doesn't make the class not in trouble. I *CAN* make the class work, but I also *RECOGNIZE* the actual issues inherent. You are too caught up in your own performance to make a proper judgment call on the issues of the class because you aren't looking at things from a realistic standpoint. Edit: Also, try getting a similar screen shot without your guild and/or your friends. Try doing that while PUG'ing for example. Secondary note: Your screen shots also defeat your argument. In your screen shots no other class is anywhere close to that output. Nobody is. You stand head and shoulders above everyone by a massive margin. That means you are simply an incredible player, and I bet you could do that with any class, and I bet you could do it easier with pretty much every other class too. Note: No other marauder or sentinel is even close to you. Show me a screenie where another Sentinel or Marauder in game is matching your output. I somehow doubt that you can. Edited December 25, 2011 by ProfessorWalsh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aghar Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff435/Swsss/Screenshot_2011-12-25_10_18_35_664134.jpg http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff435/Swsss/Screenshot_2011-12-23_22_39_42_438733.jpg http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff435/Swsss/Screenshot_2011-12-23_17_06_34_642496.jpg Just because you have no idea how to play marauder/sentinel doesn't mean the rest of us have issues. Nice stats, course the op will shoot them down as random, and you were just against bad players and like. As a juggernaut I really never have problems with topping games, or dealing enough melee damage. You just need to know how to close on them, and remember not to jump first, wait for the pushback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kricys Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 See above. You aren't addressing any facts only picking out specific moments. The rest of you do have issues. Look at the Sentinel and Marauder class forums. Again, because some of us can make the class work doesn't make the class not in trouble. I *CAN* make the class work, but I also *RECOGNIZE* the actual issues inherent. You are too caught up in your own performance to make a proper judgment call on the issues of the class because you aren't looking at things from a realistic standpoint. I see a lot of kids playing a class in a new mmo that have no idea what they're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilleto Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Yes. Shadows are fine. They aren't melee classes so much as Stealth classes that use melee. Take a look at another class... Like... Sentinel. Sentinel has: 1. No Force Pull. 2. No knock back. 3. No non-channeled Stuns save for one off of Force Leap if one is that tree. 4. A root if one specs in the combat tree. Shadows are fine, Sentinels, Marauders, Juggernauts, and Guardians? Not so much. i play kinetic in pvp >_> i usually never stealth, however I see your point. my buddy plays a gaurdian, he just leaps to them he doesnt seem to have an issue but i wont overly speak for him. Since ive not played the other classes - I can only speak on what ive observed in .. who knows how many games ive played to hit my valor level but the majority of those games the team of 4 that i Que with ( me - kinetic shadow, a jedi gaurdian, a healing sage, and a healing robotcop (w/e the trooper spec that shoots green beams is) only find operatives a issue, I dont know what they do....but they hurt... and they are all up in my grill via melee. not that i think about it - they are really the only "threat" perhaps I dont know in what circumstances would cause you as a melee to be unable to get on a ranged class in any map other than huttball. granted my aim isnt to dispute your claim - as i dont have the knowledge to do so effectively but - it doesnt "appear" that range are dominant - what does appear to be happening is alot of players new to the MMO scene rolling melee because of their light saber fetish and well.. not performing well. that isnt me insuing anything pertaining to you or anyone on the forums, thats just literally what i perceive in PVP currently. * backpeddlers = lols* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kricys Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Nice stats, course the op will shoot them down as random, and you were just against bad players and like. As a juggernaut I really never have problems with topping games, or dealing enough melee damage. You just need to know how to close on them, and remember not to jump first, wait for the pushback. I've got a folder full of this crap. It's every single game. I even posted a loss against a mostly premade of 50s where I pulled 330k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesmcalli Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 shadows have : Force pull, force slow, Force wave, Force stun. Sprint, You can spec for a instant force lift. Deflection, mass mind control , mind control, REsilience, spinning kick. .... and vanish.... and at level 50 with level 52 valor.. there isnt a single class in this game at the moment that i have a issue with. I personally find no class vastly overpowering mine. I find players not well versed in MMORPG combat/pvp tend to find things not in their favor as "op" im not saying that some range arent...oddly strong..but their are more than enough ways to counter them.. I clearly dont speak for all melee.. but for shadow of any spec .. we have more than enough advantages over range and most classes in this game. All specs of shadow are melee. I suggest you do a bit more research....or ya know.. play another melee class or something.. I call bull. With the garbage stealth and melee mechanics of this game right now, I find this hard to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah_Kerrigan Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Hello, doc! I see you're new around here. Welcome to the wonderful world of MMORPG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyImTempzz Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Yiur argument about the "Master strike" that it can be inturupeded, why not just stun prior to using it, if its your most powerful ability. then surely it has a cd and is worth using a stun, also you talk about roots, snares, stuns, yet as a melle there never going to take you out in one stun... why dont you save certain skills till the knock back.. or saber ward when your running too them. Another thing you have a snare that slows them so you should be moving faster... all the time there running there doing little damage. I agree about the maps, as for the other things i feel this is just another "!WoW" style "I cant do something change it" thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorWalsh Posted December 25, 2011 Author Share Posted December 25, 2011 i play kinetic in pvp >_> i usually never stealth, however I see your point. my buddy plays a gaurdian, he just leaps to them he doesnt seem to have an issue but i wont overly speak for him. Since ive not played the other classes - I can only speak on what ive observed in .. who knows how many games ive played to hit my valor level but the majority of those games the team of 4 that i Que with ( me - kinetic shadow, a jedi gaurdian, a healing sage, and a healing robotcop (w/e the trooper spec that shoots green beams is) only find operatives a issue, I dont know what they do....but they hurt... and they are all up in my grill via melee. not that i think about it - they are really the only "threat" perhaps I dont know in what circumstances would cause you as a melee to be unable to get on a ranged class in any map other than huttball. granted my aim isnt to dispute your claim - as i dont have the knowledge to do so effectively but - it doesnt "appear" that range are dominant - what does appear to be happening is alot of players new to the MMO scene rolling melee because of their light saber fetish and well.. not performing well. that isnt me insuing anything pertaining to you or anyone on the forums, thats just literally what i perceive in PVP currently. * backpeddlers = lols* Operatives are nasty because they stun lock and hit like a brick. Getting onto a target isn't an issue, staying there is an issue. Usually they start bunny hopping like a spastic grass hopper until a knock back, stun, or mez comes in to shut us down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilleto Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 I see a lot of kids playing a class in a new mmo that have no idea what they're doing. ^^ lol why couldnt you be on my server >_> sith side needs good players - so that i can kill them and /dance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyImTempzz Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff435/Swsss/Screenshot_2011-12-25_10_18_35_664134.jpg http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff435/Swsss/Screenshot_2011-12-23_22_39_42_438733.jpg http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff435/Swsss/Screenshot_2011-12-23_17_06_34_642496.jpg Just because you have no idea how to play marauder/sentinel doesn't mean the rest of us have issues. That damage is mad, too bad maraudor survivability is low in comparison to jug or i might have gone maraudor for my alt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aghar Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 i play kinetic in pvp >_> i usually never stealth, however I see your point. my buddy plays a gaurdian, he just leaps to them he doesnt seem to have an issue but i wont overly speak for him. Since ive not played the other classes - I can only speak on what ive observed in .. who knows how many games ive played to hit my valor level but the majority of those games the team of 4 that i Que with ( me - kinetic shadow, a jedi gaurdian, a healing sage, and a healing robotcop (w/e the trooper spec that shoots green beams is) only find operatives a issue, I dont know what they do....but they hurt... and they are all up in my grill via melee. not that i think about it - they are really the only "threat" perhaps I dont know in what circumstances would cause you as a melee to be unable to get on a ranged class in any map other than huttball. granted my aim isnt to dispute your claim - as i dont have the knowledge to do so effectively but - it doesnt "appear" that range are dominant - what does appear to be happening is alot of players new to the MMO scene rolling melee because of their light saber fetish and well.. not performing well. that isnt me insuing anything pertaining to you or anyone on the forums, thats just literally what i perceive in PVP currently. * backpeddlers = lols* so you go in with a premade, and find imbalance, couldn't possibly be that your going in with a premade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts