When Did We As MMO gamers get so Greedy

[Darkercrab]

Warning: Long post, lots of evil Text, in fact super long.

 

Ive spent some time sifting through general forums etc, you know just seeing what people thought of the game, and Though I know that forumites are the extreme vocal minority I have to ask?

 

Really? A single bug makes the game a failure? Really? You people power grind to 50 using space/pvp exploits and you feel you've a right to whine about content when you skipped 90 percent of it? Really? The game lacks basic functions of an mmo, Functions that 99 percent of other mmo's didnt have until YEARS after being released?

 

IMPORTANT: I agree the game isnt perfect! There are things Id like added and fixed but for heavens sake the games been out for FIVE DAYS, What in the hells are you people expecting in five days?

 

Now I promised text and explaining, so ive decided to Compile up the major complaints that people give, and have decided to explain them as best I can, and of course lobby my own opinion.

 

1. Content.

 

Now granted, Im only reading this from the people I mentioned above, the folks that used exploits or just skipped the text/subquests/any exploration etc, so I offer near no symapthy to this group. And I remind you, how many mmo's were rich with max level raids FIVE DAYS after release?

 

WoW: Near nothing for nine or so months. Hell Expansions like Wrath etc only gave you the end game raids in small chunks, most of which were snoresville (especially Wrath).

 

Dark Age of Camelot(amazing MMO even if old). PVP was the end game for a while

 

City of Heroes: Nothing until Hamidon, and even than it was a single raid...hami-o's(only old school CoH's will get that)

 

Rift: A few heroics and a few rift level raids that were near undoable due to Guild ganking exploits, so joy.

 

Conclusion: Welcome to the first five days of An MMO, if you plowed through using exploits/8 metric tons of mountain dew why are you shocked at this point if there isn't 100 raids? If youve actually played a decent number of MMO's you should have Known this was comming, so why complain?

 

2. Bugs at launch

 

Wow, cmon people you name me ONE mmo that didn't come out rife with bugs here and there. Name me one and ill award you king of the internet. How many games like Age of conan came out with bugs that made the game UNPLAYABLE. Anyone whos been around the block remembers The various game killing glitches that plauged WoW as well.

 

Conclusion: Compared to many mmo's were bugs/glitches resulted in errors and black screens, this game has had a relativly clean release. And as long as you submit the bugs, They will be fixed. Does dealing with Bugs suck? Oh heck yes they do, but again I demand you name one MMO that doesn't have this issue, and WoW has bugs from burning crusade STILL not fixed.

 

3. Not An MMO/No one around

 

I have to ask.....wut? No really, I read over a few threads of people complaining its linear, and all I could say is...whaaaa? Well lets go over what we have that makes it an mmo, with people around!

 

Lots of players- even on the newbie planet I was constantly getting into groups for heroics, did the first flashpoint three times with various people. Heck this was before I realized I could friend em, as I had fun. Im on my second char on the second Planet and I still find a fair number of people, and have had no issues finding a group to deal with a nasty Heroic.

 

MEGA POINT, READ it: DId anyone else check the date lately, and realize We are going through Christmas? Were lots of people are with family or on Vacation? Anyone ever one think that could effect some folk?

 

But yea...we have pvp, crafting, An auction house(will hit on this), Raids, guilds, everything Most MMo's start out with o_O.

 

4. Bad Economy!

 

Uhhhhmmm, games been out for five days? Did you expect a fully fleshed economy for all the items and stuff people? Patience for pities sake, No mmo came out and immediatly had a happy old economy.

 

5. Missing stuff like Dual builds!

 

I can sympathize here, I wish I had dual builds? BUt remember When NO mmo had em? As far as I can recall City of heroes was the first MMO I saw that had it, several years after elease at than. Than WoW followed along very quickly (lol). But yes, I do wish I could dual build for a pvp and a pve spec, but again its a Minor gripe.

 

6. Non Tiered PVP

 

Again, I can see why this is annoying, but people act as if this is an unfixable problem and that Bioware will just forget pvp exists. Again...five days, Christmas to so Bioware likely isnt working through x mas eve etc. Again this Is aggitating right now, but I can still enjoy pvp and Am Pretty sure Bioware can fix this without to much hassle.

 

7. Loading screens!

 

.....so yea, When you enter a pvp battleground in WoW, Rift etc you get a loading screen.

 

When you enter a dungeoun you get a loading screen

 

When you sailed to another continent you got a loading screen, Heck City of heroes has far more loading screens than this game.

 

The only Unique loading time this game has is starting quest conversations, and thats 1-5 seconds tops. Ill trade 1-5 seconds for the story and immersion actually talking to the people adds.

 

Conclusion:.....so yea whats the problem?

 

8. Shards!

 

Heres the thing, shards have thier ups and there downs to be sure. Due to them some areas can seem abandoned, especially during early morning hours or Xmas holiday (cough). Buuuuuuut if you remove them, than you start having to wait in long lines for quest mobs and desperatly fighting people for a single resource node. I remember Back in old school WoW, a single quest mob would have 20 or so people just surrounding his spawn point, first come first serve.

 

Conclusion: You either have it one way, or the other and Im sorry but fighting for a quest mob is NOT fun.

 

9....feck i cant think of anymore right now, Onto the conclusion! Ill edit it if a player brings up a real concern.

 

SUPER CONCLUSION:

 

The game has been out for five days, Five days and so far there have been No Game ending crashes, no emergency takedown maintences etc that many other Games have suffered. Be patient with Bugs and simple additions like Tiered pvp.

 

Bioware is NOT some tiny little company like, Say Adventurine( poor guys). They are an extremely well known Name that have created multiple Amazing games, Game of the year worthy games (KoToR one). They won't sit back and just laugh at players and thier grievances, patches will come along with content and everything we want.

 

All thats asked is Patience. If you seriously cant Show any of that, FIVE DAYS after a release, than Im sorry but no one can help you with your problem.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Darkercrab

[Bravotwentynine]

Simple... People who dont code..Never made a video game...dont under stand the process in doing so. So they expect perfection.

 

They want it all up front and not later.

 

They want the new game better than the old but want thing from the old into the new..go figure.

 

They want the game to revolve around them and nobody else.

 

I can keep going on and on. I hear this crap in focus groups we did every time.

 

You cant please everybody at once.

[Cameirus]

Simple... People who dont code..Never made a video game...dont under stand the process in doing so. So they expect perfection.

.

 

I dont build cars, but I expect any car I buy to start properly without waiting 49mins to get going, to not randomly just stop, to steer correctly and to have all modern features such as airbags, air conditioning, and such like.

 

I dont expect some 1970s piece of crap just because it was good enough then it should be now...

 

I expect the same things in my computer games.

 

Its called progress. Any new product has to compete with the current market, not some nostalgic view of how things were 7years ago.

[Cancrizans]

The really short yet truthful reply to the OP is this: we started getting greedy when people besides the traditional MMO player started playing these games. Thanks to Blizzard and WoW, who set out to get as many subs as possible by whoring the genre out to any game type that existed, we have been flooded by FPS players, RTS players, Pokemon players, and all types of players who are used to playstyles where the goal is GETGETGET rather than the traditional MMO ideals of exploration, socialization, and mature cooperation.

 

These people have IMO ruined numerous MMO communities, which used to be the pride of the MMO experience, with their infantile demands and inhuman and indecent agressive demands and overall attitudes.

 

At this point it is best to just ignore them and try to cultivate the old MMO style community feel on a smaller scale, there are just too many of them out there to do anything about.

 

Sometimes I wish they had a Raid-style can of whoopass you could just open and fumigate these pets from the world of MMOs, but unfortunately they don't and things are only likely to get worse.

[Darkercrab]

I dont build cars, but I expect any car I buy to start properly without waiting 49mins to get going, to not randomly just stop, to steer correctly and to have all modern features such as airbags, air conditioning, and such like.

 

I dont expect some 1970s piece of crap just because it was good enough then it should be now...

 

I expect the same things in my computer games.

 

Its called progress. Any new product has to compete with the current market, not some nostalgic view of how things were 7years ago.

 

Ques, the thing they said they are fixing is your complaint? Yea ill add that up there but you forget.

 

But it isnt like they didnt come out with a load of servers, Im sorry if they all filled up but this again happens at the start of EVERY popular MMO? I remember two hour waiting lines for catacylasm. I remember an hour wait for Rift at release.

 

They already addressed server ques, so what else do you want?

[Bravotwentynine]

Its called a warranty...Cant compare a car to a program.

 

Warranty=patches,fixes,security fixes.

 

You think if every program out there waited till every bug, issue, or even compatibity issue was fixed until it was released we still be using windows 95.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Bravotwentynine

[Kandorr]

Just because said games above didn't have the features when they were released all those years ago doesn't mean Bioware couldn't learn from those said games and have it when they released.

 

Simply put, it's lazy developing expecting people to accept the state the game is in because "that's just the way it is".

[JuneDTD]

We have always been greedy. Throw your nostalgia out.

[Darkercrab]

The really short yet truthful reply to the OP is this: we started getting greedy when people besides the traditional MMO player started playing these games. Thanks to Blizzard and WoW, who set out to get as many subs as possible by whoring the genre out to any game type that existed, we have been flooded by FPS players, RTS players, Pokemon players, and all types of players who are used to playstyles where the goal is GETGETGET rather than the traditional MMO ideals of exploration, socialization, and mature cooperation.

 

These people have IMO ruined numerous MMO communities, which used to be the pride of the MMO experience, with their infantile demands and inhuman and indecent agressive demands and overall attitudes.

 

At this point it is best to just ignore them and try to cultivate the old MMO style community feel on a smaller scale, there are just too many of them out there to do anything about.

 

Sometimes I wish they had a Raid-style can of whoopass you could just open and fumigate these pets from the world of MMOs, but unfortunately they don't and things are only likely to get worse.

 

No....No we can't act like this towards everyone. Doing this just alienates us terribly. I agree my title did sound offensive, but just saying we need them gone isnt the answer,

 

We need them to realize how an MMO launch is, not call them names and shoo them away. If they can adapt and realize how this goes, than they can become part of the community, and we can live happily together with a growing population.

[Cameirus]

Ques, the thing they said they are fixing is your complaint? Yea ill add that up there but you forget.

 

But it isnt like they didnt come out with a load of servers, Im sorry if they all filled up but this again happens at the start of EVERY popular MMO? I remember two hour waiting lines for catacylasm. I remember an hour wait for Rift at release.

 

They already addressed server ques, so what else do you want?

 

no, its not my complaint, its an example. But grats for sticking through an entire sentance before you replied.

 

 

my gripe is its a half finished game made in a half arsed manner, that feels dated, lifeless and incomplete.

[Florial]

The really short yet truthful reply to the OP is this: we started getting greedy when people besides the traditional MMO player started playing these games. Thanks to Blizzard and WoW, who set out to get as many subs as possible by whoring the genre out to any game type that existed, we have been flooded by FPS players, RTS players, Pokemon players, and all types of players who are used to playstyles where the goal is GETGETGET rather than the traditional MMO ideals of exploration, socialization, and mature cooperation.

 

These people have IMO ruined numerous MMO communities, which used to be the pride of the MMO experience, with their infantile demands and inhuman and indecent agressive demands and overall attitudes.

 

At this point it is best to just ignore them and try to cultivate the old MMO style community feel on a smaller scale, there are just too many of them out there to do anything about.

 

Sometimes I wish they had a Raid-style can of whoopass you could just open and fumigate these pets from the world of MMOs, but unfortunately they don't and things are only likely to get worse.

 

Nicely said sir, nicely said. I've really missed the old style MMO community lately. LoTR was probably the best game that I've played recently but haven't been back to it for a few years. Perhaps I'm just getting a bit too old for these games or need to find a great guild with similar mindsets that I have.

[Bravotwentynine]

I dont build cars, but I expect any car I buy to start properly without waiting 49mins to get going, to not randomly just stop, to steer correctly and to have all modern features such as airbags, air conditioning, and such like.

 

I dont expect some 1970s piece of crap just because it was good enough then it should be now...

 

I expect the same things in my computer games.

 

Its called progress. Any new product has to compete with the current market, not some nostalgic view of how things were 7years ago.

 

My prime example!

[Darkercrab]

We have always been greedy. Throw your nostalgia out.

 

Great reply that offers much debate, how about elaborating.

 

As per the poster above, to some point your right. But again, until you open a game to MASS testing, aka release you will never find every single tiny bug unless they had kept the game away friom us for another five years.

 

This happens with every MMO, especially ones were over a million people are playing. Im not saying" It is what it is", but you seem to act like this is some new Crisis thats never happened.

 

The folks who didn't get to Play AoC until near a month after release would like a long word with you friend.

[Bravotwentynine]

Just because said games above didn't have the features when they were released all those years ago doesn't mean Bioware couldn't learn from those said games and have it when they released.

 

Simply put, it's lazy developing expecting people to accept the state the game is in because "that's just the way it is".

 

Have you ever made a game or developed one? It isnt easy even if you do it every day. look at microsoft they still realse bug infest programs that corp america uses.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Bravotwentynine

[pattongb]

The really short yet truthful reply to the OP is this: we started getting greedy when people besides the traditional MMO player started playing these games. Thanks to Blizzard and WoW, who set out to get as many subs as possible by whoring the genre out to any game type that existed, we have been flooded by FPS players, RTS players, Pokemon players, and all types of players who are used to playstyles where the goal is GETGETGET rather than the traditional MMO ideals of exploration, socialization, and mature cooperation.

 

These people have IMO ruined numerous MMO communities, which used to be the pride of the MMO experience, with their infantile demands and inhuman and indecent agressive demands and overall attitudes.

 

At this point it is best to just ignore them and try to cultivate the old MMO style community feel on a smaller scale, there are just too many of them out there to do anything about.

 

Sometimes I wish they had a Raid-style can of whoopass you could just open and fumigate these pets from the world of MMOs, but unfortunately they don't and things are only likely to get worse.

 

 

/thread

 

This should be stickied for epic absolute truth.

[scfs]

Its greedy to want to be able to do flash points without begging for a group, and playing merry go round with dps as i try to find a healer for half an hour?

 

Well guess i'm a greedy ******e then!

[Zironic]

The really short yet truthful reply to the OP is this: we started getting greedy when people besides the traditional MMO player started playing these games. Thanks to Blizzard and WoW, who set out to get as many subs as possible by whoring the genre out to any game type that existed, we have been flooded by FPS players, RTS players, Pokemon players, and all types of players who are used to playstyles where the goal is GETGETGET rather than the traditional MMO ideals of exploration, socialization, and mature cooperation.

 

These people have IMO ruined numerous MMO communities, which used to be the pride of the MMO experience, with their infantile demands and inhuman and indecent agressive demands and overall attitudes.

 

At this point it is best to just ignore them and try to cultivate the old MMO style community feel on a smaller scale, there are just too many of them out there to do anything about.

 

Sometimes I wish they had a Raid-style can of whoopass you could just open and fumigate these pets from the world of MMOs, but unfortunately they don't and things are only likely to get worse.

Look.

 

Before WoW, a great success in the MMO market was 200k subs. WoW went and reached 13 million. What you call the traditional MMO community is -EXTREMELY- niche. All games that have tried to cater to it have crashed and burned, because there is no money there.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Zironic

[Darkercrab]

no, its not my complaint, its an example. But grats for sticking through an entire sentance before you replied.

 

 

my gripe is its a half finished game made in a half arsed manner, that feels dated, lifeless and incomplete.

 

Explain how its half finished

 

Theres more than enough content to get to fifety, with at least SOME end game heroics and stuff, many mmo's before that came out with one end game dungeoun, or less.

 

Again, theres stuff wrong with this game no doubt, but so far nothing that isn't fixable and CERTAINLY not the gloom and doom these forums spread.

[Darkercrab]

Its greedy to want to be able to do flash points without begging for a group, and playing merry go round with dps as i try to find a healer for half an hour?

 

Well guess i'm a greedy ******e then!

 

Im sorry, two characters, multiple flash's done and ive never had this problem (than again one of my chars is a healer, so I guess thats cheating a little ^_-)

[emartell]

Im gonna take a stab and say the vast majority of people that are wanting more hadn't played an MMO before WoW and have never launched a big major name like this.

 

Because the issues that are "issues" right now are all launch issues and not anything to do with real game quality.

 

I've never seen an MMO launched that wasnt launched too early in the views of most people but when you've seen it a half dozen times, you just accept it and move on.

[Zironic]

Explain how its half finished

 

Theres more than enough content to get to fifety, with at least SOME end game heroics and stuff, many mmo's before that came out with one end game dungeoun, or less.

 

Again, theres stuff wrong with this game no doubt, but so far nothing that isn't fixable and CERTAINLY not the gloom and doom these forums spread.

 

I'd say its half finished in the sense that the leveling/single player is really well done. The MMO features however are not yet properly implemented.

[Kandorr]

Have you ever made a game or developed one? It isnt easy even if you do it every day. look at microsoft they still realse bug infest programs that corp america uses.

 

They only release it because people accept it the way it is. If people didn't buy it or kicked up a stink about it and didn't support it, then they'd have to change their ways.

[Vorodor]

no, its not my complaint, its an example. But grats for sticking through an entire sentance before you replied.

 

 

my gripe is its a half finished game made in a half arsed manner, that feels dated, lifeless and incomplete.

 

Door is that way. --->

[Darkercrab]

I'd say its half finished in the sense that the leveling/single player is really well done. The MMO features however are not yet properly implemented.

 

I explained them in my first post. But ill do so again to be sure ive covered my bases, not at all to insult you.

 

Economy of an MMO: you show me a developed economy in five days and ill give you a box of oreo cookies

 

Raids/guilds: Seen plenty of guilds recruiting, and there is more end game content than most mmo'shad at launch, even more than the Precious WoW ( Who mind you thier expansions never have raiding to start with, just some heroics until WAY down the road).

 

Socialization: Ive already made friends in flashpoints, so i do that to

[Lerdoc]

Addressing just the title as OP critted me for over 9000 wall of text damage I say that blizzard spoiled mmo gamers and still caters to them giving everything on a silver plate.