Most Are Totally Missing the Many Point(s)

[XiamaraSimi]

price fixing never fixes anything.

 

Plus that will just fill gen chat with even more WTS spam then there already is.

[Joonbeams]

Almost no one missed these points. You clearly have not read any of the other 27,987 threads on the topic.

 

So we agree, Bran?

[KarathAnno]

I agree with most of this. I would just point out that there is no reason to run a single crafting mission with v1.0 of slots. None. The math was clear that you get higher yields for less time/money BY FAR from slots. Given that the devs spent a great deal of time and money instituting a crafting system (yes, that's part of this game) and economy, slots in v1.0 were clearly rendering pointless all that dev work and gameplay (yes, it's gameplay for many here).

 

This is only true for the purple mats. With the slot machines I found myself needing 4 times as many green and blue mats as I did purple, which the slot machine came nowhere close to providing. So I ran missions for the blue mats, gathered for the green, and played slots for the purple.

 

I do agree that the purple drop rate needed to come down some, but they went way over board. If they had halved it in addition to the 50% token cost increase it would have made the cost per purple mat ratio 3x higher which would have brought it back in line with missions.

[PurpleLynx]

price fixing never fixes anything.

 

Nor does hyperinflation. TBH, there is no way to fix MMO economies. Money is always printed, and there are few ways to remove said money. It causes hyperinflation, and we see that in the GTN. Best to let things lie, there is no way to fix it, as there is no supply/demand/production curves. there is no way to regulate unless you really regulate. A cap on GTN won't work, people will just sell in game. Stopping printing money wont work, no one will play. The system as it was made it so those that want to craft can do so with a game of chance helping them gather jawa stuff, and those that wanna try and make a fortune could. But, since it would likely self regulate the price down, like any business, they complained, and the regulatory body listened. It is really no different than real life in that regard.

[Heat-Wave]

The first iteration of slots were broken. That simply cannot be disputed.

 

Sure it can, anything can be disputed...

 

But in this case, I think most of us agree with you.

 

Some nerf would have been find, but as you say, this wasn't a nerf, this was destruction.

 

But you lose regardless. Those who bought the packs BEFORE Eric's 'working as intended' post, did so at great risk that this may be a broken mechanic and with no official word from BW that it was not. It certainly "felt' broken to those with a clue (see above). But in any event, you cannot claim that BW "swindled" you into anything at this point.

 

Those who bought the CM packs AFTER the post conveniently omit this core 'caveat emptor' disclaimer:

 

I actually spent real life money BEFORE I knew changes were coming. In any case, Eric mentioned Jawa Junk by name, he did not mention the other Jawa scrap or the Cartel certificates.

[calypsissmexy]

If putting a god item in a cash shop pack then nerfing it after the initial rush isn't a swindle, I don't know what is. Even unintentional, it's a rip. You realize they sold mad packs because of this thing that they've tweaked to complete uselessness, right? Yes, it will probably be tweaked again but they got their sales. They're fat and happy.

[DarthEccen]

Yes, but this is a separate point. I already conceded that the changes here broke the slots completely. I expect that won't last. Still not "swindling" tho...

 

Whether or not this is "swindling" depends entirely on if the current drop and loss rates are exactly as (newly) intended or if someone accidentally misplaced a decimal point. If its as intended, then this is absolutely swindling.

[DarthEccen]

I can't wait until Bioware releases the Togruta species. When they first come out, their tentacles won't clip through anything. It'll be marvelous. Then people will ***** about Togruta not being able to wear hoods. Their cries will drown out the forums. Eric will make a post talking about how Togruta armor appearances are working exactly as intended, but due to player feedback they will be adjusting some of the clothing options. A week later, you'll see Togruta, hoods up, giant head tentacles clipping through them.

[calypsissmexy]

I can't wait until Bioware releases the Togruta species. When they first come out, their tentacles won't clip through anything. It'll be marvelous. Then people will ***** about Togruta not being able to wear hoods. Their cries will drown out the forums. Eric will make a post talking about how Togruta armor appearances are working exactly as intended, but due to player feedback they will be adjusting some of the clothing options. A week later, you'll see Togruta, hoods up, giant head tentacles clipping through them.

 

Nah, they'll make the top horns tiny (nerf them) so hoods fit.

[DawnAskham]

A greater point could be made that the entire mess was not more than to keep players having a fit about the stuff the devs are NOT fixing i.e. bugged missions come to mind (*cough* Big Guns to name one of the smallest). To me that is what people should be bent about, not the soon to be fixed nerf to their money makers.

 

I doubt this was done as a deflecting mechanism, nor as any sort of bait and switch.

 

I do believe, however, that this is just another data point which demonstrates that the current team is faltering in delivering quality content and failing in effectively managing the game.

 

And the most likely reason for why this is occurring has to do with budgets and under-staffing than with any sort of nefarious plot to deceive or defraud the player base.

[calypsissmexy]

I doubt this was done as a deflecting mechanism, nor as any sort of bait and switch.

 

I do believe, however, that this is just another data point which demonstrates that the current team is faltering in delivering quality content and failing in effectively managing the game.

 

And the most likely reason for why this is occurring has to do with budgets and under-staffing than with any sort of nefarious plot to deceive or defraud the player base.

 

Deception through incompetence...has a looney tunes vibe. Those whacky devs. Why I oughta...

Edited January 21, 2015 by calypsissmexy

[grombrinda]

core game mechanic...

 

What core game mechanic are you talking about? The operations glitches, the drops, stucks, lag, disconnects, or it's almost nonexistent craft. You might be thinking about EVE, for example, when you talk about craft, not swtor.

 

0/10.

 

You are right, if they are going to do this , needs to be board wide. Get rid of mat rewards from conquest and just up the credits.

[DarthEccen]

The first iteration of slots were broken.

 

I stopped reading after this sentence, btw. Your entire argument falters here. Eric explicitly stated that the slots were working as intended. The fact that slots were adjusted dramatically, after player feedback was received, does not render this fact null. The first iteration of slots was never "broken."

[Ksilvante]

I doubt this was done as a deflecting mechanism, nor as any sort of bait and switch.

 

I do believe, however, that this is just another data point which demonstrates that the current team is faltering in delivering quality content and failing in effectively managing the game.

 

And the most likely reason for why this is occurring has to do with budgets and under-staffing than with any sort of nefarious plot to deceive or defraud the player base.

 

My apologies, I did not mean that to sound as if I believe the devs did a bait and switch. Never played on any of the slots so didn't miss a thing. I guess what I was (poorly) attempting to point out is there are many other things that interfering with peoples gameplay, not their profit margin. Too little sleep lol.

[Kalarie]

Did you miss Eric's post where he listed the changes that were to be made, but failed to mention the changes to Certs or the increased loss chance?

 

Eric only mentions possible changes ot jawa junk drop rates. It's the other changes that demand a refund on the item from BW.

[branmakmuffin]

So we agree, Bran?

I agree with your tl;dr, not with your assessment that "most are totally missing many points."

[lokimogor]

You all cant quote Eric on saying that they working as intended, and not mention the fact that he said they will adjust as appropriate after they get a bit more data. Selectively quoting is what the MSM does, was hoping for a better quality of forum ranter today.

[DarthEccen]

You all cant quote Eric on saying that they working as intended, and not mention the fact that he said they will adjust as appropriate after they get a bit more data. Selectively quoting is what the MSM does, was hoping for a better quality of forum ranter today.

 

The only reason they were investigating drop rates in the first place was because of the whining that the crafters (most of who were price gouging) were doing on the forums. Thus, yes, we can in fact quote him saying they were working as intended without mentioning the fact that they would be adjusted, because they never would have been examined in the first place if crafters hadn't made over a dozen different threads on the forums talking about how the "global economy" was ruined.

[PhlebiacMendax]

You all cant quote Eric on saying that they working as intended, and not mention the fact that he said they will adjust as appropriate after they get a bit more data. Selectively quoting is what the MSM does, was hoping for a better quality of forum ranter today.

 

Reasonably, most people would like to give the developer credit for having enough sense that the original drop rate (which was stated as working as intended) wouldn't be far off from balanced. To go from what it was to what it is; that's a huuuuuge leap. They really could've done their community of customers the courtesy of having a dialogue about their intentions in more specific terms before implementing a change this drastic.

 

Before anyone starts screaming about how I just want to make credits (which is the standard avenue to discredit someone in these talks); I only got like 4 jawa junk before the nerf. I just wanted to get materials to craft some prefabs for furniture. The life day event got me playing again after being away from the game for months and I wanted to get out and run missions and play the slot machine later. Nope, not gonna happen now. Looks like I missed my chance. I have 8 characters and all crew skills covered between them. Been running missions and leveling them up and I still haven't gotten a rare crafting mat to drop.

 

 

I'm sure a lot of people would brand me as a casual player as if that should invalidate my opinion but I did buy cartel packs specifically to get the slot machine for a specific purpose and only after it was stated they were working as intended and not bugged (yes I know about the other part of the statement that's in my first paragraph). As I skim through all these threads I see so many people in support of the change simultaneously bragging about how they themselves took advantage of the drop rates and now that they're sittin' pretty are glad the chumps that missed out don't get the same they got. All these elitists thinking newer players should have to spend months grinding when they just 'got it free' as so many put it. It's a really off-putting facet of the community that really dampens my enthusiasm for a game I was so enjoying just yesterday.

 

Again, feel free to write me of as just some casual player if it makes any of you elitists feel better.

[Heat-Wave]

If putting a god item in a cash shop pack then nerfing it after the initial rush isn't a swindle, I don't know what is. Even unintentional, it's a rip. You realize they sold mad packs because of this thing that they've tweaked to complete uselessness, right? Yes, it will probably be tweaked again but they got their sales. They're fat and happy.

 

^ This...

[beasthunt]

You say the first iteration of slots where broken, and there is no disputing that buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut this guy says other wise.

 

Hey folks,

 

We know that there have been many questions about the Contraband Slot Machine and its intent. Here are a few notes on it:

The Contraband Slot Machine is not bugged.

It is 100% not an exploit to use the Slot Machine.

If you feel the desire to sell access to your Stronghold, that’s totally up to you. As a reminder, do not scam people as that is against ToS.

We added the Slot Machine as a fun idea based on the positive feedback from the Nightlife event, so spend those credits to your heart’s content!

With that being said, we do hear the concern from many of you around the effects of the Jawa Junk’s drop rate on the economy. We are going to take a look at it and make changes accordingly. I will let you know once I know more. In the meantime, have fun!

 

I dare say there is a massive dispute on your claim. There however is zero dispute about how they completely decimated them as of today. That is true.

[Andryah]

Reasonably, most people would like to give the developer credit for having enough sense that the original drop rate (which was stated as working as intended) wouldn't be far off from balanced. To go from what it was to what it is; that's a huuuuuge leap. They really could've done their community of customers the courtesy of having a dialogue about their intentions in more specific terms before implementing a change this drastic.

 

^^ Yep.

 

Honestly... next time Bioware thinks about "fixing" something like this by extreme measures ..... just remove the item from the game completely and leave a cookie in everyone's mail box. The players would be farther ahead with a cookie then this pile of dung they patched in this morning.

[Joonbeams]

I stopped reading after this sentence, btw. Your entire argument falters here. Eric explicitly stated that the slots were working as intended. The fact that slots were adjusted dramatically, after player feedback was received, does not render this fact null. The first iteration of slots was never "broken."

 

This is not correct. It's revisionist. It's too cute. Eric specifically said there would be changes. That, alone, should end this. But even moreso, 'working as intended' does not equal 'can never ever be adjusted again.'

 

Eric said there would be changes and there were (again, I think they are too harsh). And, even the 'working as intended' hook fails because that could very well have been true (i.e. this is NOT an exploit and the SLOTS were working as the slot devs intended) and yet still also require tweaking because the thing that one group of devs had 'working as intended,' led to other problems in other areas. Happens all the time. Devs build something with a certain intent - it works to achieve that intent - but then more data comes in that reveals that changes are needed. Nothing special here.

[calypsissmexy]

^^ Yep.

 

Honestly... next time Bioware thinks about "fixing" something like this by extreme measures ..... just remove the item from the game completely and leave a cookie in everyone's mail box. The players would be farther ahead with a cookie then this pile of dung they patched in this morning.

 

Or fix it immediately, not a week later after you've sucked us dry of cartel coins.

 

Not fixing it day 1 was a calculated move. Even if they didn't intend the initial results, when they saw what it was doing, they could then easily predict the sales part of it.

Edited January 22, 2015 by calypsissmexy

[DurdensWrath]

This is not correct. It's revisionist. It's too cute. Eric specifically said there would be changes. That, alone, should end this. But even moreso, 'working as intended' does not equal 'can never ever be adjusted again.'

 

Eric said there would be changes and there were (again, I think they are too harsh). And, even the 'working as intended' hook fails because that could very well have been true (i.e. this is NOT an exploit and the SLOTS were working as the slot devs intended) and yet still also require tweaking because the thing that one group of devs had 'working as intended,' led to other problems in other areas. Happens all the time. Devs build something with a certain intent - it works to achieve that intent - but then more data comes in that reveals that changes are needed. Nothing special here.

 

HOWEVER. Those adjustments were NOT in the patch notes, and were NOT released to us prior to what happened. He ONLY said Jawa Junk. And why the increase in prices for the coins if they were going to hit the bottom out of this.

 

I mean I've seen people bend over backwards to defend Bioware, but you're taking the cake.