The economic case for maintaining the "status quo" (by not changing the slots)

[Neglience]

its been explained again and again to you that machine doesn't print money, but I guess I need to again.

 

machine on its own doesn't print money it doesn't generate wealth. it generates materials in exchange for credits. or used to anyways. and now, your proposed credit cost is ridiculous, just like current purple mat mission rewards are ridiculous.

 

what people want? is deflation of prices, they want to be able to craft at will, they want to be able to afford to buy stuff off GTN at will. you really need to read OP carefully and slowly until you understand what it explains about economy and inflation.

 

and hell... it doesn't even need to be a machine. it could have been vendor that exchanged basic coms for jawa junk for all I care (although in this case, it wouldn't be credit sink, since basic coms are a reward from questing... which also rewards credits). it just so happened to be a machine

 

to quote Adele. "we could have had it all" :/

 

They want to craft what they want? Fine they can do crew missions. I do that and i can craft everything i need, i even can sell crafted stuff on the GTN.

 

People want the game to be easy mode for their laziness. With 2k per token they could still sell their "easy in a few second made mats" at 50% of the price now.

[Draqsko]

What people want is instant gratification and they feel entitled to this. I will admit, I'm not a fan.

 

If that is the case, then why are you allowed to sell mats on the GTN.. That is instant gratification of the buyer, because they should have been running their own crew missions instead of buying off the GTN.

 

Instant gratification is fine if it comes with a price. A properly balanced slot machine provides the instant graitifcation at the cost of increased unit price.

 

Now you have a pick, fast mats at a much higher cost, or lower cost mats at a much longer gathering time. You aren't forced to use the machine, in fact you are economically disadvantaged by using it over crew missions in this case. In fact you are doubly disadvantaged by not being able to generate credits while you play the slot, and have to pay more per mat. If that's not acceptable balance, then I'm sorry but you are not looking at the best interests of the game, but your own personal interest.

[Jeweledleah]

If that is the case, then why are you allowed to sell mats on the GTN.. That is instant gratification of the buyer, because they should have been running their own crew missions instead of buying off the GTN.

 

Instant gratification is fine if it comes with a price. A properly balanced slot machine provides the instant graitifcation at the cost of increased unit price.

 

Now you have a pick, fast mats at a much higher cost, or lower cost mats at a much longer gathering time. You aren't forced to use the machine, in fact you are economically disadvantaged by using it over crew missions in this case. In fact you are doubly disadvantaged by not being able to generate credits while you play the slot, and have to pay more per mat. If that's not acceptable balance, then I'm sorry but you are not looking at the best interests of the game, but your own personal interest.

 

this

 

@ negligence. either you are deliberately refusing to understand, or I'm not explaining it clearly enough, but either way, I'm starting to think its pointless for me to continue to try.

[Neglience]

No, we just have different points of view how this game should work. I like it to be something where you have to earn stuff, you (and the rest of the whiners) want to get everything handed to you easy with little to no effort. Edited January 24, 2015 by Neglience

[Tsillah]

If that is the case, then why are you allowed to sell mats on the GTN.. That is instant gratification of the buyer, because they should have been running their own crew missions instead of buying off the GTN.

 

Instant gratification is fine if it comes with a price. A properly balanced slot machine provides the instant graitifcation at the cost of increased unit price.

 

Now you have a pick, fast mats at a much higher cost, or lower cost mats at a much longer gathering time. You aren't forced to use the machine, in fact you are economically disadvantaged by using it over crew missions in this case. In fact you are doubly disadvantaged by not being able to generate credits while you play the slot, and have to pay more per mat. If that's not acceptable balance, then I'm sorry but you are not looking at the best interests of the game, but your own personal interest.

 

They would have to be at a much higher cost but they weren't.

 

The thing is though that a game isn't just about economy. It's about activities and spending time doing them. MMOs are time passers. If things are too quick it's boring and people complain of a lack of things to do. If it takes too long people get discouraged and give up.

 

This slot machine idea was just a bad idea because crafting is a game activity that is not just an economic activity but a time passer to a degree and just something to be busy with. Problem is that people forget that if things are too easy to get, it will get boring more quickly and there is no sense of achievement in mass production with lower profit margins. We already have jobs, well, a lot of us do at least.

 

Instant gratification needs to be limited where possible. Convenience is great to a point. The balance can go too far in either direction. The concept of a vendor for all mats or a slot machine therefore is a bad idea in general as far as I'm concerned.

 

Especially because companions can do missions for you while you do other stuff I feel it's already far enough in the direction of easy.

[Draqsko]

They want to craft what they want? Fine they can do crew missions. I do that and i can craft everything i need, i even can sell crafted stuff on the GTN.

 

People want the game to be easy mode for their laziness. With 2k per token they could still sell their "easy in a few second made mats" at 50% of the price now.

 

If they can sell mats made with 2k tokens for 50% of the price, then that price is past the gouging point. That 2k price actually puts it over the cost of obtaining Doonium at 6k per.

 

2k tokens on a 5/10/15 jawa scrap award scale is 6 jawa junk per 130k spent. Even factoring out 50k for the certs that's 80k for 6 Doonium or 13.3k each.

 

There is no way that by making the slot supplied mats cost more than twice as much as mission supplied mats should ever make crew missions non-competitive to slots. Sure I could sell the mats at the current prices easily from teh slot machine, but that's only because the current mat prices are so astronomically high. If mats from the slots cost twice as much as mats from crew missions, yet still turn a profit by selling on the GTN, then the prices on the GTN need to be looked at for collusion and price-fixing.

 

And that is the last I am going to respond to you because it's apparent you have an agenda and that agenda is to protect your little private virtual enterprise and the massive profits you are generating by overcharging for mats. Please, when there is 17 pages of Midlithe crystals, all over 30k, when they cost 4k to obtain with crew missions, yeah there is some definate cartel going on there. By sheer quantity alone on the market the price should have fell more, that's a 700% markup. To give you an idea RETAIL markup in real life is only 120% over wholesale, and they have to pay overhead and wages, pretty sure your companions aren't asking for raises.

[_Coragin]

Please ignore Neglience. He is a troll.

 

If it were up to him auto manufacturers would not be allowed to use assembly lines.

If it were up to him, nothing in the world would be able to be automated with a machine.

If it were up to him, there would not be allowed answering machines, because back in the day you had to physically be there to answer phone.

 

Lets change the slot machine to "Scrap Generator". Because according to him, thats the only issue is it was deco only. So if it is changed into a "Scrap Collector" or "Scrap Generator" he would completely endorse it.

[Tsillah]

Please ignore Neglience. He is a troll.

 

If it were up to him auto manufacturers would not be allowed to use assembly lines.

If it were up to him, nothing in the world would be able to be automated with a machine.

If it were up to him, there would not be allowed answering machines, because back in the day you had to physically be there to answer phone.

 

Lets change the slot machine to "Scrap Generator". Because according to him, thats the only issue is it was deco only. So if it is changed into a "Scrap Collector" or "Scrap Generator" he would completely endorse it.

 

He is free to have that opinion, that doesn't make him a troll.

 

I find this post of yours more in bad taste. It's a direct attack on him and a public shaming at that. We don't need you to call out to the forum to ignore a person. That's mobbing. Everyone can decide for themselves if they appreciate his opinions or not but not like this.

 

Horrible. This is just harrassment because you can't get him to agree with you.

[Neglience]

If they can sell mats made with 2k tokens for 50% of the price, then that price is past the gouging point. That 2k price actually puts it over the cost of obtaining Doonium at 6k per.

 

 

Has nothing to do with past the gouging point. The mats are just rare, as endgame mats should be to some point. The machine on the other hand was creating them in seconds. It was directly affecting the economy and the gameplay for a lot of players.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Neglience

[Draqsko]

They would have to be at a much higher cost but they weren't.

 

The thing is though that a game isn't just about economy. It's about activities and spending time doing them. MMOs are time passers. If things are too quick it's boring and people complain of a lack of things to do. If it takes too long people get discouraged and give up.

 

This slot machine idea was just a bad idea because crafting is a game activity that is not just an economic activity but a time passer to a degree and just something to be busy with. Problem is that people forget that if things are too easy to get, it will get boring more quickly and there is no sense of achievement in mass production with lower profit margins. We already have jobs, well, a lot of us do at least.

 

Instant gratification needs to be limited where possible. Convenience is great to a point. The balance can go too far in either direction. The concept of a vendor for all mats or a slot machine therefore is a bad idea in general as far as I'm concerned.

 

Especially because companions can do missions for you while you do other stuff I feel it's already far enough in the direction of easy.

 

Crafting is no more or less an in game activity than slots is. Both cases you are sitting there clicking a UI.

 

Yes crafting can be done while you do other stuff, however sometimes you can't do other stuff until you are done crafting. If you didn't have the mats stockpiled beforehand, crafting actually slowed down your ingame activities more than using the slot machine would have.

 

I know, that's where I was during early access. I still haven't set foot on Rishi yet except to the ops. I was busy working my crafting skills during the week of early access, I was the one preorder that didnt complain about skill training because I didn't level at all while working on my crafts. That's literally all I did for 2 weeks so I could get enough mats to craft my gear to do ops.

 

In my case, the slot machine would have sped up the process and let me actually do more ingame activities than crafting did.

 

It's really a matter of persepctive, maybe I'm rare in that I can see both sides of the fence on the issue and both sides have merit. Both seem to not care about merit of the other though, and that will be a huge detriment going forward in this game.

[Draqsko]

Has nothing to do with past the gouging point. The mats are just rare, as endgame mats should be to some point. The machine on the other hand was creating them in seconds. It was directly affecting the economy and the gameplay for a lot of players.

 

They are not rare mats.. You want rare mats..

 

Exonium is a rare mat

SPPC is a rare mat

SEM is a rare mat

ADC is a rare mat

BCA is a rare mat

 

Midlithe, Doonium, Adaptive Circuitry are not rare mats. Anyone can gather them, rare mats only drop in Ops and flashpoints.

[Neglience]

They are not rare mats.. You want rare mats..

 

Exonium is a rare mat

SPPC is a rare mat

SEM is a rare mat

ADC is a rare mat

BCA is a rare mat

 

Midlithe, Doonium, Adaptive Circuitry are not rare mats. Anyone can gather them, rare mats only drop in Ops and flashpoints.

 

But how can players gouge you guys on something anyone can gather ? Thats the point, they could, but they don't. Because they are to lazy for it. And the machine offered a way to get around their laziness.

 

And yes, in my opinion BW should in no way please your laziness, while other players go the way.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Neglience

[Tsillah]

Crafting is no more or less an in game activity than slots is. Both cases you are sitting there clicking a UI.

 

Yes crafting can be done while you do other stuff, however sometimes you can't do other stuff until you are done crafting. If you didn't have the mats stockpiled beforehand, crafting actually slowed down your ingame activities more than using the slot machine would have.

 

I know, that's where I was during early access. I still haven't set foot on Rishi yet except to the ops. I was busy working my crafting skills during the week of early access, I was the one preorder that didnt complain about skill training because I didn't level at all while working on my crafts. That's literally all I did for 2 weeks so I could get enough mats to craft my gear to do ops.

 

In my case, the slot machine would have sped up the process and let me actually do more ingame activities than crafting did.

 

It's really a matter of persepctive, maybe I'm rare in that I can see both sides of the fence on the issue and both sides have merit. Both seem to not care about merit of the other though, and that will be a huge detriment going forward in this game.

 

It is more as it also involves companions for example. Why bother with things like affection if crafting crits don't matter? Crafting missions are not dependable. The results vary and it takes longer before you try again.

 

If you could use the slot machine and after 6 atttempts with a decent success rate it would go on cooldown for 45 mins I would agree with you on that part at least.

 

But no, you can just keep going and going and get lots of mats just by standing in your Stronghold. Oh yeah, about that, they do kinda like people to go to planets and the fleet from time to time as well.

 

So yeh. It's connected to a whole lot of things and that's what people tend to forget it seems.

[Draqsko]

But how can players gouge you guys on something anyone can gather ?

 

Market Collusion, Cornering, Price Fixing

 

You don't think it happens? I watched happen on my server the day after the patch. Anyone that tried to undercut the midlithe market past 30k was immediate bought out and reposted for 40k. The Doonium market was already cornered on patch day, and they are now 55k each with only 3 sellers posting.

 

Go look at the prices and there is no way you cannot call a markup that high price gouging. Making a profit is one thing, making a profit that pays for your costs by a factor of 10 is price gouging. And it is price gouging on mats that are used to make entry level gear for endgame content. If you can't see how that is problem and how that is turning new players off of this game then go make a guild, be a GM and watch out many people come and go for this very reason.

[Draqsko]

It is more as it also involves companions for example. Why bother with things like affection if crafting crits don't matter? Crafting missions are not dependable. The results vary and it takes longer before you try again.

 

If you could use the slot machine and after 6 atttempts with a decent success rate it would go on cooldown for 45 mins I would agree with you on that part at least.

 

But no, you can just keep going and going and get lots of mats just by standing in your Stronghold. Oh yeah, about that, they do kinda like people to go to planets and the fleet from time to time as well.

 

So yeh. It's connected to a whole lot of things and that's what people tend to forget it seems.

 

The way to do that is with economic incentive, not forcing one style of play though. People don't like to be forced, they want some kind of choice even if it's just an illusion. Didn't the whole fuss about the skill tree changes teach you that? Even though the discipline system gives you more utility options than you had possible with a pure spec in the old skill tree system, the skill tree system had the illusion of greater choice and people clung to that.

 

PS I never said it was balance before, it wasn't. That was obvious when the larger sample sizes came in. But that doesn't mean it can't be balanced, and wouldn't be beneficial to the game as a whole to offer that option. Some people would take the quick fix, some people wouldn't, but the game would then appeal to a greater audience since there is something for everyone.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Draqsko

[Neglience]

Market Collusion, Cornering, Price Fixing

 

You don't think it happens? I watched happen on my server the day after the patch. Anyone that tried to undercut the midlithe market past 30k was immediate bought out and reposted for 40k. The Doonium market was already cornered on patch day, and they are now 55k each with only 3 sellers posting.

 

Go look at the prices and there is no way you cannot call a markup that high price gouging. Making a profit is one thing, making a profit that pays for your costs by a factor of 10 is price gouging. And it is price gouging on mats that are used to make entry level gear for endgame content. If you can't see how that is problem and how that is turning new players off of this game then go make a guild, be a GM and watch out many people come and go for this very reason.

 

So they steal your farmed crystals out of your pocket or what ? You do not need to attend to the market at all. Make your own mats and you are fine. I really do craft a lot and i have absolutely no idea what prices for crafting mats are, because i get all that i need myself.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Neglience

[Tsillah]

Market Collusion, Cornering, Price Fixing

 

You don't think it happens? I watched happen on my server the day after the patch. Anyone that tried to undercut the midlithe market past 30k was immediate bought out and reposted for 40k. The Doonium market was already cornered on patch day, and they are now 55k each with only 3 sellers posting.

 

Go look at the prices and there is no way you cannot call a markup that high price gouging. Making a profit is one thing, making a profit that pays for your costs by a factor of 10 is price gouging. And it is price gouging on mats that are used to make entry level gear for endgame content. If you can't see how that is problem and how that is turning new players off of this game then go make a guild, be a GM and watch out many people come and go for this very reason.

 

Yeah but you can make these yourself so you don't need to buy them off the GTN.

 

Someone said instant gratification should come at a price...

[Khevar]

Crafting is no more or less an in game activity than slots is. Both cases you are sitting there clicking a UI.

This is a gross oversimplification, and I believe it detracts from your point. Would you describe driving a car as "sitting there moving your hands and feet"?

 

Here is an example of some ways that people may engage in crafting as an in-game activity:

 

1. There are multiple crew skills, but you can only have 3 per character. So you look at a number of factors (what do I want to do with this toon, crafting wise? What companion bonuses are there?) and pick.

2. Over x period of time, you run lower level crew missions, eventually reaching a skill cap.

3, If you decide to make things (as opposed to 3x gathering) you have to decide WHAT to make.

4. Then you make green, blue and finally purple version of those things to learn the schematics.

5. You find out that companion affection impacts your crew missions.

6. So you use your companions more often to raise their affection (e.g. Belsavis dailies), or you obtain gifts through purchase, or by running gift missions.

7. You decide your 3 crew missions aren't enough to be self sufficient, so you repeat 1-6 on another toon.

8. etc.

 

Now let us compare to the slot machine:

 

1. Buy packs and open them until you get the slot machine, or

1a. Buy slot machine on GTN directly, or

1b. Find someone else with a slot machine to use

2. Buy coins.

3. Right-click on slot machine.

 

Edit: Let me be clear -- I'm not trying to argue against your point of how the slot machine could be good for the game. I'm arguing against an apparent disdain you have for crafting in this game by calling it "sitting there clicking a UI"

Edited January 24, 2015 by Khevar

[Draqsko]

Yeah but you can make these yourself so you don't need to buy them off the GTN.

 

Someone said instant gratification should come at a price...

 

I don't buy them off the GTN, in fact, I buy nothing off the GTN, except conquest mats, but even then it's not really buying because I'm buying them from guildies. However I do sell alot on the GTN and I do know who buys what I sell, and I do check for flips and relistings.

 

Yes, instant gratification should come at a price, but that price shouldn't be 10 times what it costs to produce that item, especially when that price is being set by another player and not Bioware. Bioware can set the price for the slot machine and crew missions and determine the balance between them without prejudice. A player cannot do that, and shouldn't do that. My suggestion wasn't intended to be balanced in fact, but only to show that it is possible for it to be balanced.

 

Yes it would take far more than the napkin math I did to actually balance it, but the math itself shows that balance is possible to achieve. And that is the most important point I am trying to drive home, the slot machine mechanic itself is not unbalancing, the state it was in was. Increasing the costs to obtain the mats to be twice or three times higher than the costs to obtain with crew missions would be more than enough balance for an instant mat machine. People have an economic incentive to use crew missions, and a time incentive to use the slot machine. Which they use depends on which they value more, time or money.

[Tsillah]

I don't buy them off the GTN, in fact, I buy nothing off the GTN, except conquest mats, but even then it's not really buying because I'm buying them from guildies. However I do sell alot on the GTN and I do know who buys what I sell, and I do check for flips and relistings.

 

Yes, instant gratification should come at a price, but that price shouldn't be 10 times what it costs to produce that item, especially when that price is being set by another player and not Bioware. Bioware can set the price for the slot machine and crew missions and determine the balance between them without prejudice. A player cannot do that, and shouldn't do that. My suggestion wasn't intended to be balanced in fact, but only to show that it is possible for it to be balanced.

 

Yes it would take far more than the napkin math I did to actually balance it, but the math itself shows that balance is possible to achieve. And that is the most important point I am trying to drive home, the slot machine mechanic itself is not unbalancing, the state it was in was. Increasing the costs to obtain the mats to be twice or three times higher than the costs to obtain with crew missions would be more than enough balance for an instant mat machine. People have an economic incentive to use crew missions, and a time incentive to use the slot machine. Which they use depends on which they value more, time or money.

 

From an economic point of view I probably agree. I guess my main point is that this isn't just about economics but as usual BW just does something wild and doesn't talk to us when they cause the proverbial **** hits the fan yet again. I guess I should see it as progress that they talked about it before they let that hammer swing down but I suppose there would be a lot less bile and vitriol here if BW communicated more and better here. I often feel that Eric is just the one that has to write things down for someone else. I would rather this someone else comes to talk to us because as soon as it gets a little tricky Eric has to run off and get informed. Which means, without wanting to be rude, he is not in the topics enough to be able to know what he's talking about. And that means to me that BW has a very odd idea about communication.

[Draqsko]

This is a gross oversimplification, and I believe it detracts from your point. Would you describe driving a car as "sitting there moving your hands and feet"?

 

Here is an example of some ways that people may engage in crafting as an in-game activity:

 

1. There are multiple crew skills, but you can only have 3 per character. So you look at a number of factors (what do I want to do with this toon, crafting wise? What companion bonuses are there?) and pick.

2. Over x period of time, you run lower level crew missions, eventually reaching a skill cap.

3, If you decide to make things (as opposed to 3x gathering) you have to decide WHAT to make.

4. Then you make green, blue and finally purple version of those things to learn the schematics.

5. You find out that companion affection impacts your crew missions.

6. So you use your companions more often to raise their affection (e.g. Belsavis dailies), or you obtain gifts through purchase, or by running gift missions.

7. You decide your 3 crew missions aren't enough to be self sufficient, so you repeat 1-6 on another toon.

8. etc.

 

Now let us compare to the slot machine:

 

1. Buy packs and open them until you get the slot machine, or

1a. Buy slot machine on GTN directly, or

1b. Find someone else with a slot machine to use

2. Buy coins.

3. Right-click on slot machine.

 

Edit: Let me be clear -- I'm not trying to argue against your point of how the slot machine could be good for the game. I'm arguing against an apparent disdain you have for crafting in this game by calling it "sitting there clicking a UI"

 

If I had such disdain, then why do I have a bunch of max crafters in every game I've played, and barely touched the slot machines my guild has? No I don't mean to sound like crafting is nothing, but the slot machine is no different fundamentally once you get your crafting skills maxed. You are sitting there clicking a UI. It's not an ops, it's not pvp, it's not doing dailies. I've been sitting here writing in this forum, crafting all week while writing. I can't do the slot machine while doing that. Sorry my disdain is from forum goers who refuse to accept that the slot machine is just as much an ingame activity as crew missions. Now I'm going to do some real in game activities and do some raiding with my guild.

 

Maybe tomorrow we can continue this discussion, you seem to be one of the few reasonable people on this forum.

[grombrinda]

If I had such disdain, then why do I have a bunch of max crafters in every game I've played, and barely touched the slot machines my guild has? No I don't mean to sound like crafting is nothing, but the slot machine is no different fundamentally once you get your crafting skills maxed. You are sitting there clicking a UI. It's not an ops, it's not pvp, it's not doing dailies. I've been sitting here writing in this forum, crafting all week while writing. I can't do the slot machine while doing that. Sorry my disdain is from forum goers who refuse to accept that the slot machine is just as much an ingame activity as crew missions. Now I'm going to do some real in game activities and do some raiding with my guild.

 

Maybe tomorrow we can continue this discussion, you seem to be one of the few reasonable people on this forum.

Point!

[Draqsko]

From an economic point of view I probably agree. I guess my main point is that this isn't just about economics but as usual BW just does something wild and doesn't talk to us when they cause the proverbial **** hits the fan yet again. I guess I should see it as progress that they talked about it before they let that hammer swing down but I suppose there would be a lot less bile and vitriol here if BW communicated more and better here. I often feel that Eric is just the one that has to write things down for someone else. I would rather this someone else comes to talk to us because as soon as it gets a little tricky Eric has to run off and get informed. Which means, without wanting to be rude, he is not in the topics enough to be able to know what he's talking about. And that means to me that BW has a very odd idea about communication.

 

That I will agree with you 100 percent, the premise behind the slot machine was GREAT. The implementation left so much to be desired, and the nerf was 10 times worse.

 

I have a feeling the communication level we see here, is pretty much the same level they see in the office.

[Jeweledleah]

If I had such disdain, then why do I have a bunch of max crafters in every game I've played, and barely touched the slot machines my guild has? No I don't mean to sound like crafting is nothing, but the slot machine is no different fundamentally once you get your crafting skills maxed. You are sitting there clicking a UI. It's not an ops, it's not pvp, it's not doing dailies. I've been sitting here writing in this forum, crafting all week while writing. I can't do the slot machine while doing that. Sorry my disdain is from forum goers who refuse to accept that the slot machine is just as much an ingame activity as crew missions. Now I'm going to do some real in game activities and do some raiding with my guild.

 

Maybe tomorrow we can continue this discussion, you seem to be one of the few reasonable people on this forum.

 

/considers just taking your posts and going:

"what he said"

 

P.S.

<-- crafter in every game that has crafting. including DAI - the game where most people pretty much abandoned any thought of crafting, relying on drops instead.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Jeweledleah

[ShinDoRai]

i cant read it anymoe....the problem was in 1st case bioware. no comment on that...

and if this was intended how it has to work....they never tested it.

 

the problem was since f2p that all mats prices raised.

a lot of ppls run crew missions to control the market and get profit out of it....maybe they are all ferengi..who knows.

 

since the slotmachine appears the market stabilaised...and thats THE ONLY REASON why it was nerved to zero.

i as a crafter since the very 1. day ( and the best low lev crafte on my server, cos i craft all epics for all classes from lev 9-50 ) know all places and ways to gain mats on every planet, but a lot of idiots only do crew mission.

but crew missions were only needed for epic purple mats...the rest was like a present for lazy farmers.

 

now when the machine hits the stores, everybody was hot to make a lot of credits.

even more, after biofail said it works like a charm.....jeah...u got em all to buy it.

 

for me it was clear since day 1 of dat mats-machine it´s not working right, but would help a lot of ppls to start a crafting carrer. for me it was a gift to continuing my crafting and sell some epics. but all dat jewish ferengis cryed here that it makes the ecco instable or a piece of **** for crew missions...realy facepalm.

 

i give u an example....a casual player with less time than others and new hopping in in this game have no credits....he will need to farm mats... a basic player with time and ingame money can run missions , can go farm on planets and do crafting or sell mats.....a hardcore gamer ( and that are the ferengis who cryed ur sites full with threads ) have a lot of ingame cash, time and real money to earn it 4 mats.

so they can play monopoly...

think about it...the rest will follow

 

maybe the percentage of drop rates where not correct, and u had to make em more cooperative to the rest..but u nuked it away.

i never run crew missions cos i dont pay 4 it. i play since u trolled us with rothc in f2p mode, and i save my credits for running crew missions, to buy purple mats in the ah. cos i dont get any purples from crew missions in f2p mode.

 

what ever ...u dont even have a idea of eco in mmos...sry biofail.....and again a slap in ya face, 4 no comments since days 4 that debacle.

 

ps. i did the link thingy to get 7 day free play...only to write about from my point of view....thy bioware...with that u never get customers to pay the game in a sub.

pps.: and i dont wanna go through all the other probs u made since release. thx u make it easy to be a f2p player.