Heat-Wave Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I would assume they underestimated just how willing people are to stand in one spot and click... and click... and click... and click... The simple solution would be the same as for the gathering nodes... Simply limit each toon to 99 pulls of the slots in any given 24 hour period. Or perhaps limit to 500 pulls per account, per week, resetting on Tuesday. Then the drop rates as they were last week would be fine, then people would be running the machine more for personal use than for massive profit. This is obvious and simple, but sadly it flies over their heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neglience Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 4. The slot machine was rapidly becoming a nice social feature in the game. People were gathering in strongholds to play the slots and chat. People were actually handing out keys to their homes! This game desperately needs more social hooks. Why destroy one of the few aspects of the game that brought people together for casual social interaction? 6. I also don't understand the harm in high levels of material drops. I was very, very excited at the chance to gear out all of my toons instead of just one or two. Low drop levels mean I can really only afford a limited amount of gear. High drop levels via the slot machine had me jazzed about playing all of my toons. Which would translate into more time playing the game. And more fun for me!! The more fun I have playing the game the more likely I am to keep spending money on the game. Wiping out the original entertainment, monetary, social and gaming value of the slot machine seems short-sighted, counter-productive and more than a bit dishonest. 4. Because the machine was destroying other parts of the game which are not just an item added to the CM. 6. One could create up to 1000+ grade 11 mats with this machine per day. With crew missions this would probably take weeks ( assuming you took the way through month of playtime to build this up) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I suspect these new values are based on the assumption that people will keep clicking on the machines at the same rate as they were when they were new (and usefull). So these will also prove to be grossly inaccurate. Yes, I would agree... This is the same insane logic when tax rates are being talked about... "If we raise taxes by 1%, it will bring in X dollars", without taking into account that people change their behavior based on the reward/penalty for their existing behavior. This is why tax increases never bring in as much as promised and tax cuts never cost quite as much as you fear. People behave in their own self interest, there have been some VERY smart people who have studied this issue many times over the years, MMO developers would be wise to learn something from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruceme Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 translation: "there is another even bigger exploit. between you and me we have the fix in" right on cue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Welcome to gambling, not gaining. Yes, but in gambling you don't have to pay 3 million for the machine before you can play it. During the nightlife event, the machines didn't cost anything. Here they do, either real money or in-game credits. And if the drop rate is so low that you will spend millions to earn thousands, it isn't gambling, it is losing. Gambling would be if you could spin and spin and spin and win nothing, right up until you win 500 Jawa Junk. THAT is gambling... If the win rate is guaranteed to be below par with no jackpot, then it isn't gambling, it is losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neglience Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Yes, but in gambling you don't have to pay 3 million for the machine before you can play it. During the nightlife event, the machines didn't cost anything. Here they do, either real money or in-game credits. And if the drop rate is so low that you will spend millions to earn thousands, it isn't gambling, it is losing. Gambling would be if you could spin and spin and spin and win nothing, right up until you win 500 Jawa Junk. THAT is gambling... If the win rate is guaranteed to be below par with no jackpot, then it isn't gambling, it is losing. And ? Most of the stuff in your stronghold costs credits too. The only difference is that the machine has a minigame. If the odds are to low, they might change it again. But i would not expect the machine to create millions of credits per hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 This is the same company that thought the launch content would take several MONTHS to burn through for the pre-purchase customers. Months is the word that Bioware actually used... You could have told them this. I could have told them this. BIOWARE DOES NOT HAVE ANYONE WORKING THERE WHO ACTUALLY KNOWS MMOS. The past year has been evident of this... GSF? WZ Ranked 8v8? GSH Hooks? 3.0 launching with two ops, both badly bugged? Removing Skill trees for "balance", only to have it remain unbalanced? The Slot machine? There are more examples, but I won't bother.... What exactly have they done right recently? While I am just as irritated by the slot machine as anyone else, this post leaves the point and goes off into extraneous BS. Of course they have people who work on MMOs. Let's be real here and get back on track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KamikazeKommando Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 My first post in the forum. Grats! 4. The slot machine was rapidly becoming a nice social feature in the game. People were gathering in strongholds to play the slots and chat. People were actually handing out keys to their homes! This game desperately needs more social hooks. Why destroy one of the few aspects of the game that brought people together for casual social interaction? ^ This. 110%. It was a great idea that boosted the whole idea of MMOs, enjoying an online game with other people. I personally observed quite positive reactions as a result, and then today's patch happened to bury that completely. Kind of sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 My first post in the forum. 1. Offering a product for sale that has a certain value, collecting money on that sale and then completely removing the value of the item sold strikes me as rather unethical. 2. Announcing an increase in the price of the coins used to operate the slot machine, thereby encouraging people to buy coins in advance and then not being honest about the scale of the upcoming changes to the slot returns - also strikes me as unethical. 3. Offering up a mount with statistically impossible odds to obtain as a substitute for the value taken away seems unnecessarily petty and small. What does it hurt to make the mount or other older Cartel items drop at a higher rate? It is fun to win things. Makes me want to log in and play. Losing over and over at a virtual slot machine makes me want to do yard work instead. 4. The slot machine was rapidly becoming a nice social feature in the game. People were gathering in strongholds to play the slots and chat. People were actually handing out keys to their homes! This game desperately needs more social hooks. Why destroy one of the few aspects of the game that brought people together for casual social interaction? 5. I don't buy cartel packs to get certificates. But it is certainly fun to spend certificates on decorations and on rep items. Having more certificates to use was a blast. I bought crazy amounts of stuff from the rep vendors. Instead of nerfing the drop rate on the certificates - why not give me more stuff to buy with the certificates from the rep vendors? I will have more incentive to max out my rep level to legend for all the upcoming packs. Again - it makes no sense to remove fun from the game. 6. I also don't understand the harm in high levels of material drops. I was very, very excited at the chance to gear out all of my toons instead of just one or two. Low drop levels mean I can really only afford a limited amount of gear. High drop levels via the slot machine had me jazzed about playing all of my toons. Which would translate into more time playing the game. And more fun for me!! The more fun I have playing the game the more likely I am to keep spending money on the game. Wiping out the original entertainment, monetary, social and gaming value of the slot machine seems short-sighted, counter-productive and more than a bit dishonest. Your first post? We need more of you and less of the whiners... You summed it up perfectly, I have nothing useful to add other than I wish to highlight your post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varium Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Oh *gasp* maybe the slot machine wasn't supposed to replace crew skills completely and destroy the crafting market, but instead give people another way to get reputation for old cartel stuff and they completely underestimated people's ability of going overboard with the slot machine. Good change. Maybe you slot machine gouging whales can now try to adapt. (see? I can call you those names too) Now you guys can get such a required items for operations and PVP such as the Revan Mask and the Hoverchair as some of you say they are. Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jojomagro Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Who is keeping tally for who Bioware has pissed off so far this year? My count so far is up to: people who run dailies on 3.0 planets, raiders, and now crafters. Whats next? Ruin PvPers experience? lol wait... Edited January 21, 2015 by Jojomagro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szarqy Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) If some1 already got Legend from that reputation and the walker is available to get from HM FP or reputation - Yavin than Slot Machine is totally useless now- not good again ;/ Edited January 21, 2015 by szarqy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 My first post in the forum. [...] Wiping out the original entertainment, monetary, social and gaming value of the slot machine seems short-sighted, counter-productive and more than a bit dishonest. All good points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djiini Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Yes, but in gambling you don't have to pay 3 million for the machine before you can play it. During the nightlife event, the machines didn't cost anything. Here they do, either real money or in-game credits. And if the drop rate is so low that you will spend millions to earn thousands, it isn't gambling, it is losing. Gambling would be if you could spin and spin and spin and win nothing, right up until you win 500 Jawa Junk. THAT is gambling... If the win rate is guaranteed to be below par with no jackpot, then it isn't gambling, it is losing. Sorry, did they change it so you can't go in people's public strongholds and use their's? Did I miss something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Oh *gasp* maybe the slot machine wasn't supposed to replace crew skills completely and destroy the crafting market, but instead give people another way to get reputation for old cartel stuff and they completely underestimated people's ability of going overboard with the slot machine. Good change. Maybe you slot machine gouging whales can now try to adapt. (see? I can call you those names too) Now you guys can get such a required items for operations and PVP such as the Revan Mask and the Hoverchair as some of you say they are. Peace That is fine, if the machine wasn't sold a week ago for real money. If this machine were given out free to everyone, then I'd have no issues whatsoever with the changes... I bought it with CC via the packs, specify to get the machine. If it isn't illegal to do this, it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Sorry, did they change it so you can't go in people's public strongholds and use their's? Did I miss something? Yes... yes you did... but I'm not sure how to explain it if it isn't obvious... It is like trying to explain that the sky is blue. Well, it is... if you can't see it because you're color blind, then nothing I say will matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djiini Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Yes... yes you did... but I'm not sure how to explain it if it isn't obvious... It is like trying to explain that the sky is blue. Well, it is... if you can't see it because you're color blind, then nothing I say will matter. So they -did- change it so you can only use one in your own stronghold? Edited January 21, 2015 by Djiini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grombrinda Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I would assume they underestimated just how willing people are to stand in one spot and click... and click... and click... and click... There projections were probably based on an assumption that the Average Player with access to a machine would play it for [X] amount of time per week. When their value for [X] proved to be grossly inaccurate, they would have to change another variable in the equation (the drop rates) to get the actual number of Certs generated back where they wanted it. ...either that or they didn't actually do any initial projections and just said "yeah, 2% sounds good". Not entirely willing to rule out that possibility these days. How could they have underestimated this ?? It all goes back to how they underestimated how fast people would eat their "story filled" content back in the beginning??? It's like they really haven't learned anything.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djiini Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 How could they have underestimated this ?? It all goes back to how they underestimated how fast people would eat their "story filled" content back in the beginning??? It's like they really haven't learned anything.... If this nerf has proven anything, I think learning is pointless for them because people are going to whine about anything they do. This slot machine is too overpowered! Wow, Bioware, you ruined the slot machine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulturefett Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 This nerf to the slot machine is ridiculous! I paid 2 million credits on the GTN to get one with the intention of being able to get Jawa junk to trade for the purple mats to craft augments and relics for my 8 lvl 60s. Now the drop rate is so bad that it's not worth it. This is the equivalent of buying a character slot with the intention of playing that character every day then a week later being told you can only play that character once a week. Or buying a years sub then a week later being told you can only play one hour a day. Or buying a mount that increases speed by 110% then the next week it is changed to 100%. You have changed what the item I PAID in game credits for does. All this because the whiny, greedy crafters weren't making as much money. This is unfair to those who bought one thing and now have another. This needs to me made right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djiini Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 This nerf to the slot machine is ridiculous! I paid 2 million credits on the GTN to get one with the intention of being able to get Jawa junk to trade for the purple mats to craft augments and relics for my 8 lvl 60s. Now the drop rate is so bad that it's not worth it. This is the equivalent of buying a character slot with the intention of playing that character every day then a week later being told you can only play that character once a week. Or buying a years sub then a week later being told you can only play one hour a day. Or buying a mount that increases speed by 110% then the next week it is changed to 100%. You have changed what the item I PAID in game credits for does. All this because the whiny, greedy crafters weren't making as much money. This is unfair to those who bought one thing and now have another. This needs to me made right! why didn't you just go into a public stronghold and use someone else's for free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) While I do not support the way BW handled things with the Slot Machine, I am fairly baffled that a mishandling of a quirky little stronghold decoration has caused this much of a blow-up, with people claiming they've unsubbed over it. Yeah they screwed things up, but they screwed things up in relation to a really minor aspect of the game. Obviously your money is your own, and you can subscribe or unsubscribe on any basis you want whatsoever, but if I was a dev I'd be looking at these threads and wondering what freaking twilight zone I dropped into where this is what has people worked up. Edited January 21, 2015 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grombrinda Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 If this nerf has proven anything, I think learning is pointless for them because people are going to whine about anything they do. This slot machine is too overpowered! Wow, Bioware, you ruined the slot machine! Oh i'm not saying that the machine was not overpowered, it needed to be toned down...sure!! But now it is basically USELESS.....What you might not be seeing here is the clear bait and switch they pulled. They did say the machines were working as intended, and that was what many people were waiting to hear. Thus they spent in game credits and actual cash to get said item. Now they also did say that they were keeping an eye on jawa junk drops, which yes I would agree with, but not the cartel certificates. Why would you need the rep if you don't have the currency to spend on said rep? It is just another clear example of their lack of communication. Unless they did this to in fact detract people from the non-bannings that have occurred from the op exploit, that they went live with..in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckman Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) The glut of crafting materials was fun while it lasted. Hopefully the win percent reorganization will yield more credits. Hidden in here is a comment about the lack of purple materal drops from gathering missions. Edited January 21, 2015 by buckman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EzraFett Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 So they say it was too easy to get purple mats, fine drop that rate. But why drop the rate of the green and blue scrap? I mean it was basically just a convenience to get those mats instead of sending out companions or picking it up off of the ground in low level areas. Why increase the rep tokens? I played six stacks before the nerf and got max rep. (I wasn't even newcomer before playing these slots) From what I understand the increased rate of those tokens dropping will never sell as vendor trash for enough to make playing the slots even partly rewarding. Now we come to the reduced drop rate of the cartel certificates. So how was being able to buy old vanity items breaking the economy in any way? It wasn't, so why reduce the drop rate? Were people buying too many Jawa vendors after they bought the two or three things they wanted from the short list of very old vanity items? Eric posted that the slot machines were added because players enjoyed the Nar Shaddaa event. Well guess what? Those slots were fun. The nerfed slots are not. I am glad I held off on buying them. I wanted to set up a casino at my Tat homestead for the guild, but the non playable slot machines will be more fun. It was nice while it lasted. Play a few stacks of coins after a raid before logging off. Now it is really just a credit trash can. I will go back to watching something on netflix after raid. Here is the deal. In my opinion. (Don't forget this is my opinion) The ONLY reason some in the community were crying so loud to nerf the slot machines is because they were trying to take attention away from the fact that they exploited and were scared they would get in trouble. The interesting thing is that BW seems to have listened to the cheaters cry instead of the non cheaters cry. The cheaters in my guild have not received any form of punishment, but the slot machines got nerfed. Oh Fortuna you are a cruel mistress. My valve has slammed shut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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