Fury | Concentration Rotation

[Ardarell_Solo]

I have been doing a fair bit of analysing of the rotation and have been using something slighty different from yours. Concentrated Slice applies its damage very quickly, which actually makes you able to fit it in inside the Heightened Power window as the fourth GCD after Focused Burst with no alacrity. However that is cutting it very close, in fact for me sometimes it will be inside and sometimes outside the window. When it's outside it's by no more than 0.1 seconds. When cutting Master Strike on the other hand there's a bit more room and I'm able to fit it in almost every time.

 

Making use of this would move up Master Strike to position 3-4 and Concentrated Slice to 5, as well as the second Concentrated Slice to either 11 (because of CD) or 12 (to make use of fourth GCD in window). 11 is probably the best idea to be sure it fits inside the window. In a real fight various delays will easily move the Concentrated Slice in position 5 out of the window of course, but on a dummy I think it should give the best results, and with a little alacrity it would be safer in a real fight, even putting the 2nd one in position 12.

 

That's what I had been doing until I took 5 parses and analyzed every Concentrated Slice and wether it was under Heightened Power. -> Too little and weaker DPS. Even though that was done on the ship dummy late at night.

 

When raiding only one of ten Slices was under HP. So if at all, which I doubt, it is a rotation suitable for dummy parsing. Which to me doesn't make much sense, since Watchman will outperform it in that. So it's just the Plan B spec for burst fights and thus needs a rotation that works in a raiding situation. And clipping MS into CSlice doesn't (again: reliably!) work there (without at least 2 alacrity enhancements, which is not possible/effective if not full 198 on your tertiary stats).

 

Thing is: If you have as little as 20% of your Concentrated Slices land outside Heightened Power, then the rotation I listed already does more dps.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Ardarell_Solo

[MiaowZedong]

I have been doing a fair bit of analysing of the rotation and have been using something slighty different from yours. Concentrated Slice applies its damage very quickly, which actually makes you able to fit it in inside the Heightened Power window as the fourth GCD after Focused Burst with no alacrity. However that is cutting it very close, in fact for me sometimes it will be inside and sometimes outside the window. When it's outside it's by no more than 0.1 seconds. When cutting Master Strike on the other hand there's a bit more room and I'm able to fit it in almost every time.

.

Doing it in the order Oofalong posted is better because, even with significant lag and without clipping Ravage/MS, you get four GCD worth of damage inside Cascading Power/Heightened Power. Clipping exactly is ideal for dummy DPS but "in the wild", with unpredictable delays and frequent demands on your attention, Oofalong's rotation is far more dependable and consistent.

 

On clipping Ravage/MS in general, remember, clipping it too early even once in a fight costs you more DPS than you will be able to make up for with timely clips on all the other channels. It's better to clip slightly late than slightly early (dummy parsing aside, where you can just start over until everything is perfect and the RNG is favourable).

 

So how will that rotation work against a player that has: knock back, slows, stuns, mobility and range?

 

Advice against a non moving, non shooting target is one thing. But, that isn't going to happen in TOR because either your going against NPCs or players that will move, and shoot back.

For PvP or for solo PvE don't use Oofalong's rotation. It's for group PvE where your tank is responsible for positioning the boss, and you just avoid telegraphed attacts while unloading into it. And right now, I can't see a way to improve on Oofalong's work.

 

For PvP try something like Berserk>Force Charge>[Additional setup as needed]>Raging Burst>Force Crush>Furious Strike>Obliterate>Smash>Force Scream>[followup]. You can swap Smash and Raging Burst around if the target is already Overwhelmed, but in PvP you're unlikely to get the second auto-crit inside the Cascading Power window anyway. Additional setup can be things like Crippling Slash for Trauma, Force Choke if the target used their CC breaker already, etc. Followup depends on the situation: Vicious Throw to finish the target, Force Camo and disengage if you're now being focused, etc.

 

@ Oofalong: nice work

Edited January 27, 2015 by MiaowZedong

[oofalong]

@ Oofalong: nice work

 

 

Thanks, I should point out that I have been revising the rotation listed in my google doc as this thread has expanded. Thus, thanks to the many people who have helped me test and improve the rotation I first documented.

[Excypher]

For me, after I activate the first raging burst there is 2 seconds where no skills build fury for me, I use ravage and it seems this skill still builds fury, This is also with only 1 alacrity piece (not stacking in this spec!)

 

With the way you describe after using : > Raging burst>Crush>Furious strike>Ravage you only end on 6 fury

using it this way round : > Raging Burst>Ravage>Furious strike>Crush you get 12-14 fury from the same combination of skills

 

My rotation is as such

 

Berzerk+Obliterate>RagingB>Ravage>Strike>Crush>Battering>Obliterate>RagingB>Scream>Strike>Vicious+Berzerk>Vicious

Repeat

 

Again, not sure if its just me but thats what is happening when im using that rotation.

Edited February 1, 2015 by Excypher

[Aluvi]

Oofalongs rotation (or a slight variation) is best. After playing around, it makes the most sense. Also, trying to get in an extra ability on your cascading power window by sacrificing surge or power for alacrity.. it's just not worth it.

 

I do have a question though. I break the rotation up into two "sections", basically the two different Cascading Power windows. On the first one, if you swap Obliterate and Ravage, it allows you to get in Obliterate in place of a vicious slash during the second Cascading Power window. This is more ideal, since Obliterate hits significantly harder than Vicious Slash. The question then, is this: does Obliterate hit as hard or harder than the first two ticks of Ravage in the first rotation? My rotation would go like this:

 

Pre stack 30 fury

----------------------

Charge + Berserk

 

Part 1 or rotation

Raging burst (Cascading power 4.5s left)

Force Crush (CP 3s left)

Furious Strike (CP 1.5s left)

Obliterate (CP falls off after this GCD)

Ravage

Battering Assault

 

Part 2 of rotation

Raging Burst (CP 4.5s left)

Furious Strike (CP 3s left)

Obliterate (CP 1.5s left)

Force Scream (CP falls off after this GCD)

Vicious Slash

Vicious Slash

 

I realize this is kind of splitting hairs here. The 2nd part of my rotation would be superior to Oofalongs I believe, due to getting better abilities into the Cascading Power window. First rotation I swap Ravage and Obliterates places. Using Obliterate earlier in the first rotation allows me to use it earlier in the second rotation. The second rotation is definitely a dps gain, due to using Oblit within the CP window instead of Vicious Slash. The question I have is, does this get offset by not getting the first two ticks of Ravage into the first CP window, and getting obliterate in instead?

 

It comes down to this: how much damage do the first two ticks of Ravage do compared to Obliterate?

 

I THINK Ravage's damage is split in half at the 1.5 second mark. That is, the first two ticks, which occur in the first 1.5 seconds, do half the total stated damage, and the other half comes at the end of the 3 second cast. If it IS half at the 1.5 second mark, then Obliterate and the first 1.5 seconds of Ravage do roughly equal damage. If it's nearly equal, then the dps gain in the 2nd rotation would justify using Obliterate before Ravage in the first rotation.

 

EDIT: Something else occurred to me.

 

If you start casting Ravage within the CP window, does the last tick retain the CP buff even though it falls off halfway through the Ravage? I didn't think that was how it worked but... if it does, then Oofalong's rotation is probably just straight up superior.

Edited February 1, 2015 by Aluvi

[VenJr]

Hi guys,

 

What augments do you think are best suited for this spec? Is having 100% accuracy vital or you can sacrifice it for something else?

Also would alacrity be a viable option given that the attacks are pretty slow?

[Ardarell_Solo]

Oofalongs rotation (or a slight variation) is best. After playing around, it makes the most sense. Also, trying to get in an extra ability on your cascading power window by sacrificing surge or power for alacrity.. it's just not worth it.

 

I do have a question though. I break the rotation up into two "sections", basically the two different Cascading Power windows. On the first one, if you swap Obliterate and Ravage, it allows you to get in Obliterate in place of a vicious slash during the second Cascading Power window. This is more ideal, since Obliterate hits significantly harder than Vicious Slash. The question then, is this: does Obliterate hit as hard or harder than the first two ticks of Ravage in the first rotation? My rotation would go like this:

 

Pre stack 30 fury

----------------------

Charge + Berserk

 

Part 1 or rotation

Raging burst (Cascading power 4.5s left)

Force Crush (CP 3s left)

Furious Strike (CP 1.5s left)

Obliterate (CP falls off after this GCD)

Ravage

Battering Assault

 

Part 2 of rotation

Raging Burst (CP 4.5s left)

Furious Strike (CP 3s left)

Obliterate (CP 1.5s left)

Force Scream (CP falls off after this GCD)

Vicious Slash

Vicious Slash

 

I realize this is kind of splitting hairs here. The 2nd part of my rotation would be superior to Oofalongs I believe, due to getting better abilities into the Cascading Power window. First rotation I swap Ravage and Obliterates places. Using Obliterate earlier in the first rotation allows me to use it earlier in the second rotation. The second rotation is definitely a dps gain, due to using Oblit within the CP window instead of Vicious Slash. The question I have is, does this get offset by not getting the first two ticks of Ravage into the first CP window, and getting obliterate in instead?

 

It comes down to this: how much damage do the first two ticks of Ravage do compared to Obliterate?

 

I THINK Ravage's damage is split in half at the 1.5 second mark. That is, the first two ticks, which occur in the first 1.5 seconds, do half the total stated damage, and the other half comes at the end of the 3 second cast. If it IS half at the 1.5 second mark, then Obliterate and the first 1.5 seconds of Ravage do roughly equal damage. If it's nearly equal, then the dps gain in the 2nd rotation would justify using Obliterate before Ravage in the first rotation.

 

EDIT: Something else occurred to me.

 

If you start casting Ravage within the CP window, does the last tick retain the CP buff even though it falls off halfway through the Ravage? I didn't think that was how it worked but... if it does, then Oofalong's rotation is probably just straight up superior.

 

The biggest problem with that rotation (I had tested it for the same reasons you're giving) is doing Ravage outside Berserk and thus missing out on the extra Fury, since it will even give you Fury under Berserk which Obliterate will not do. So you will sit at 28 or 29 Centering sometims at the end of the second window.

 

 

@Oofalong: Update on Blade Storm: It simply depends on the Crits you get on Blade Storm. Non critted it is weaker than Slash, if it Crits, it's stronger, since it doesn't have an offhand hit and ALL its damage is multiplied. In most cases with the amount of Crit I have, Blade Storm is stronger, but sometimes it's not. So it's a matter wether you want to gamble or not. So of course I now put Blade Storm under Heightened Power like you're suggesting ;-)

[Aluvi]

The biggest problem with that rotation (I had tested it for the same reasons you're giving) is doing Ravage outside Berserk and thus missing out on the extra Fury, since it will even give you Fury under Berserk which Obliterate will not do. So you will sit at 28 or 29 Centering sometims at the end of the second window.

 

 

True, however if you want to be super efficient fury wise, you go with

 

Raging Burst

Force Crush

Ravage

Furious Strike

Obliterate

Battering Assault

 

Raging Burst

...etc

 

But what I have found is that even though you would think you would run short on fury with my rotation, you actually don't . Basically as long as you actually use Ravage within the full rotation, you cannot possibly run out of Rage.

 

I'll do more dummy testing to make sure that I'm not missing something, but I did like a 5 minute parse and never ran short on Fury. I know it's counter intuitive... and if you're going by the "set bonus", then using Ravage even before Furious Strike would make sense, to get the auto crit buff (otherwise you delay your auto crit Furious Strike by one full rotation, could make a difference in a prolonged fight).

Edit: OK, I managed to run 1 Fury short on one of my dummy rotations. It took a long time (like 3-4 minutes into the fight), but you can. So it appears that you should definitely run with Oofalongs rotation, period.

Edited February 1, 2015 by Aluvi

[Ardarell_Solo]

True, however if you want to be super efficient fury wise, you go with

 

Raging Burst

Force Crush

Ravage

Furious Strike

Obliterate

Battering Assault

 

Raging Burst

...etc

 

 

But what I have found is that even though you would think you would run short on fury with my rotation, you actually don't . Basically as long as you actually use Ravage within the full rotation, you cannot possibly run out of Rage.

 

I'll do more dummy testing to make sure that I'm not missing something, but I did like a 5 minute parse and never ran short on Fury. I know it's counter intuitive... and if you're going by the "set bonus", then using Ravage even before Furious Strike would make sense, to get the auto crit buff (otherwise you delay your auto crit Furious Strike by one full rotation, could make a difference in a prolonged fight).

 

If you look above, I already posted that rotation and why it will be best in full 198s with 2 alacrity enhancements and why its inferior atm :-)

 

The problem with Ravage outside Berserk and Fury is that you just can't rely on it: The little dps gained (if at all) by that is not worth the risk of delaying Concentrated Burst which WILL happen too frequently. I did the extensive testing already and have checked all rotations discussed here even on PTS - meaning I did about 40+ parses for all variations. I'm quite sure there are a few simple rules:

 

 

• Force Exhaustion right after Force Crush
   
   
  
• Ravage under Berserk
   
   
  
• Clipping Master Strike into Furious Slice will only work reliably enough on bosses with 240 Alacrity from 2 198 Enhancements (given alacrity augments are a dps loss). Without Alacrity the dps loss from occasional Furious Slices failing to land inside Heightened Power is a bigger loss than losing the third hit of Master Strike.
   
   
  
• Though Zealous Leap looks like a better option inside Heightened Power it has to be pushed out for the reasons stated above. Plus in raids you will see it's quite beneficial to have it right before Concentrated Burst/Smash
  

 

 

Which leads to the rotation I recommended - except that if you want to gamble, you put Blade Storm inside the second Heightened Power window instead of Slash.

Edited February 1, 2015 by Ardarell_Solo

[Aluvi]

If you look above, I already posted that rotation and why it will be best in full 198s with 2 alacrity enhancements and why its inferior atm :-)

 

Right on, but I can't see myself using this spec for any fights over Annihilation or Carnage for PvE. At least not on current content . There are sparingly few fights where having the possibility of using Smash to aoe a group of targets is actually relevant, and Annihilation actually keeps up now, aoe dps wise.. and if you really want to do crazy aoe dps, then Carnage is actually the better choice (thinking like killing the Adds on the first boss if you use the group them up on top of the MT method for Hardmode).

 

Actually, I won't be using this class at all for pve anymore, seeing how we are stuck on HM Underlurker and our two melee are the ones holding the group back due to terrible mechanics implemented by BioWare. Thanks for screwing over melee in PvE. Again.

[g_mK]

My regular rotation is

 

Zealous Leap

Focused Burst

Force Exhaustion

Concentrated Slice

Zealous Strike

Focused Burst

Blade Storm

Slash

Concentrated Slice

Slash-Zen

Zealous Leap

 

With one alacrity enhancement you can get CS in the heightened power window by clipping MS at 2.7sec

[Ardarell_Solo]

With one alacrity enhancement you can get CS in the heightened power window by clipping MS at 2.7sec

 

On the dummy at 2am maybe. Have you checked your raid parses how many of your CS actually land inside Heightened Power with that rotation and 111 alacrity. You're probably in for a surprise :-)

 

EDIT: That rotation was the first I came up with and I WANTED it to be the best. Extensive testing has proved my assumption wrong which I didn't like one bit. Especially on bosses, which is the only point of the specc as on the Dummy it's Watchman all the way.

 

EDIT 2: I think you forgot to include Master Strike in your post (understood what you were aiming for anyway though :-))

Edited February 1, 2015 by Ardarell_Solo

[Ardarell_Solo]

Right on, but I can't see myself using this spec for any fights over Annihilation or Carnage for PvE

 

Concentration/Fury beats Combat/Carnage on all fights except for the ones where Annihilation/Watchman is better than both anyway :-)

[Ryuku-sama]

I really wonder one thing.. Why does everyone use Ravage and Crush in the same CP window??? It's better to separate them simply to bring a better control over your rotationnal CC's (PvP), and Overpower.

[Ardarell_Solo]

I really wonder one thing.. Why does everyone use Ravage and Crush in the same CP window??? It's better to separate them simply to bring a better control over your rotationnal CC's (PvP), and Overpower.

 

We were purely talking PvE and maximizing DPS until now.

[Ryuku-sama]

We were purely talking PvE and maximizing DPS until now.

 

By separating them you can actually make sure Ravage land fully inside CP window..

 

RB > FS > FC > Obl > VS > BA >

RB > FS > Rav > Obl > Sc > VS + Enr >

 

Ravage lands always inside CP window and once in execute phase you can move Obl and VS (becoming VT).

 

Using Crush and Ravage in the same window adds some front loaded burst but likely push your max DPS down a little with Ravage last hit being outside CP window.

 

EDIT : So the Execute would become :

 

RB > FS > FC > VT > Obl > BA >

RB > FS > Rav > VT > Obl > Sc + Enr >

Edited February 1, 2015 by Ryuku-sama

[Ardarell_Solo]

By separating them you can actually make sure Ravage land fully inside CP window..

 

RB > FS > FC > Obl > VS > BA >

RB > FS > Rav > Sc > Obl > VS + Enr >

 

Ravage lands always inside CP window and once in execute phase you can move Obl and VS (becoming VT).

 

Using Crush and Ravage in the same window adds some front loaded burst but likely push your max DPS down a little with Ravage last hit being outside CP window.

 

EDIT : So the Execute would become :

 

RB > FS > FC > VT > Obl > BA >

RB > FS > Rav > VT > Sc > Obl + Enr >

 

As explained above - Any rotation with Ravage outside Berserk doesn't work: You won't have 30 Fury by the end of the second window ever so often, if you don't use Ravage under Berserk and profit from the fact that it's the only ability that does build Fury even under Berserk.

[Ryuku-sama]

As explained above - Any rotation with Ravage outside Berserk doesn't work: You won't have 30 Fury by the end of the second window ever so often, if you don't use Ravage under Berserk and profit from the fact that it's the only ability that does build Fury even under Berserk.

 

I see... I'm more used to Jugg Rage than Mara Fury. Thank for the answer...

[g_mK]

On the dummy at 2am maybe. Have you checked your raid parses how many of your CS actually land inside Heightened Power with that rotation and 111 alacrity. You're probably in for a surprise :-)

 

EDIT: That rotation was the first I came up with and I WANTED it to be the best. Extensive testing has proved my assumption wrong which I didn't like one bit. Especially on bosses, which is the only point of the specc as on the Dummy it's Watchman all the way.

 

EDIT 2: I think you forgot to include Master Strike in your post (understood what you were aiming for anyway though :-))

 

yes I did forget Master Strike between Force exhaustion and concentrated slice. My comments are more of a purely dummy parse, I don't use concentration for raiding since I run combat in all fights.

[ElcorHamlet]

I really wonder one thing.. Why does everyone use Ravage and Crush in the same CP window??? It's better to separate them simply to bring a better control over your rotationnal CC's (PvP), and Overpower.

 

So I think what you are trying to say is, why not root them with ravage in one hightened power window and slow them with force crush in the other? Well, I don't do this because taking the root on ravage almost guarantees that it will get interrupted. Its strange, but even with the severe snare on force crush people don't seem to realize that they are being ravaged unless you root them with it.

[oofalong]

As explained above - Any rotation with Ravage outside Berserk doesn't work: You won't have 30 Fury by the end of the second window ever so often, if you don't use Ravage under Berserk and profit from the fact that it's the only ability that does build Fury even under Berserk.

 

In a raid situation, you can almost surely count on Defensive Forms contributing enough Fury | Centering to allow you to use Ravage | Master Strike in your 2nd Cascading | Heightened Power window. I am going to update the initial rotation to make note of this.

 

(No real reason for quoting Ardarell_Solo, I just wanted to make sure my comment had the proper context.)

[Ryuku-sama]

In a raid situation, you can almost surely count on Defensive Forms contributing enough Fury | Centering to allow you to use Ravage | Master Strike in your 2nd Cascading | Heightened Power window. I am going to update the initial rotation to make note of this.

 

In your raid rotation, you're missing one filler to fully reset RB CD... The rotation I suggested moved Scream to the second half-cycle for this reason :

RB > FS > FC > Obl > VS > BA >

RB > FS > Rav > Sc > Obl > VS + Enr >

 

And why do you say you can only replace one VS with VT??? they can be placed at 9s exactly from one another so you can replace both.

[oofalong]

In your raid rotation, you're missing one filler to fully reset RB CD... The rotation I suggested moved Scream to the second half-cycle for this reason :

RB > FS > FC > Obl > VS > BA >

RB > FS > Rav > Sc > Obl > VS + Enr >

 

And why do you say you can only replace one VS with VT??? they can be placed at 9s exactly from one another so you can replace both.

 

you caught me while I was actively editing it so it wasn't (still isn't) finished

 

Doesn't Vicious Throw | Dispatch have a 10s CD?

[Ryuku-sama]

you caught me while I was actively editing it so it wasn't (still isn't) finished

 

Doesn't Vicious Throw | Dispatch have a 10s CD?

 

Damn.. You're right... I was sure it was on a 9s CD. My Jugg rotation (the toon I'm levelign currently 'cause I'm not playing anything else right now) was rather loose until I got Gravity manipulation so I was able to fit 2 VT anyway.. But you're right...

Edited February 2, 2015 by Ryuku-sama

[ShadowShrike]

I'm a bit busy :/

https://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1685/1987/original.jpg

in the meantime, here's a parse that I did in 186 gear with the following rotation (put in spoilers to prevent misinformation)

 

rest | leap zen | focused burst | exhaust | master strike | master strike | concentrated slice | blade storm |

 

zealous leap | focused burst | slash | zealous strike | concentrated slice | slash |

 

zen zealous leap | ...

 

 

From what I can gather, I seem to have a few other rotations to try thanks to this thread