Meleeslayer Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 How's the spec on some of these new ops compared to df or ss, have you guys had success? and what are your numbers compared to the other specs. Especially fights like the underlurker, sparky and Revanite Commanders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kacynski Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I was going to make a thread asking about engineering slinger, but as this threads calls for pro's to help, I will gladly tag along. I love the engineering slinger, always played that specc, but I never took my slinger to competitive raiding so I have no real comparison. With 3.0 I decided I woul like to make the slinger my go-to dps and started to collect some starter gear. I am now in 186's, fully augmented, crafted enhancements (low endurance) with 100,21% accuracy, but my DPS numbers are pathetic. I am just below 3.000 dps when parsing on a dummy and this seems really, really low. So my question is (like the OP): what numbers is engineering supposed to pull of? Is it still a viable specc for OPs? What and how should I personally train to get better dps numbers? I really don't want to go back to my Commando, this playstyle became a bit boring to me, but I can pull way higher numbers there with the same kind of gear ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyluke Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 The spec is generally in a great place right now. On Sparky: As long as tanks don't keep moving the boss constantly and your not the rDPS who has to kill every add incoming the spec does fine. You can keep high uptime of Inciendary Grenade and can roll through the Boss. If your group struggles with Adds or Boss placement or putting the adds together when more then one is present you should switch to SS. Underlurker: You can play anything on it and it will be fine. The moveability of the spec is in HM not of that much use. But the cleave dps while dealing while focusing one add is handy. Your dots will keep ticking while hiding behind the stone if done right and your moveability helps in the cross phase. Again, if you struggle with the add SS is the save bet to get it down in time. Commanders: Haven't tried this yet with my gunslinger but since the end phase is pretty much the only thing that matters really in this fight lets look only in that. It is a little dependend on your strat but cleave will definetly help, but I'm not sure if SS wouldn't be better to get the first boss down asap. Don't ever try to roll under the shield, but if your group stacks up the adds nicely you can roll and bomb the adds away quickly after the first boss dies. Moving while keeping the damage up is nice because of having to move out of the adds aoa quiet often. Energy might be an issue with the aoa required to make up for the non existend burst though so it gets a close call ... Try both and see what helps your group better On a side note, Malaphar is just funny with Saboteur... Cleave ftw I play Saboteur on almost every boss and if I have to I switch to SS because of add issues or something like that. I don't like the new DF playstyle with the way too long dots and the possible energy constraints. The only fight I would consider DF would be the Walkers since you can almost constantly keep dots on both targets and that helps energy managment quiet a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kacynski Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Well, I was praticing my rotation a bit this afternoon and I can now do quite a bit better. I'm now at 3.300dps in 186's which still seems low, but that's what it is right now. What do you mean by "cleave"? To my understanding a cleave is an attack that will damage not only the maintarget but also splash some (or all) damage to nearby targets ... which of the Saboteurs attacks does this? Do you mean Thermaldetonator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyluke Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Thats exactly what I mean by cleave. You got 4 main abilities that should be used in the single target rotation that will also do damage to anything in the vicinity of the main target. 1) Incindiary Grenade (ground placed Dot damages up to 5 targets) 2) Thermal Grenade (hits Main target and up to 5 with a little bit less) 3) Roll /Scatter Bombs (Approx 10k dmg to anything which is inside the rolling line 4) XS Flyby (Ground placed Dot to hit up to 8 Targets) Roll and XS are only used under certain conditions: For Roll the bossfight has to allow the usage of the roll. Some fights do (Malaphar), some fights absolutly don't (Bulo, Revan) XS is quiet energy absorbing and might mess up your managment, so it is to be only used with cool head or illegal mods if you have to continue with your rotation afterwards (i.e. in the Underlurker fight you can regenerate in the rock phase) On the dummy, using the roll I hit just under 5k with a mix of 186 and 192 token gear (Offhand and 1 or 2 peaces are 198) New Setbonus is 6/6 (this gives you about 2-300dps more then 4/6) Since I have done my almost 5k parse I have got some upgrades so when I have got time I will parse again. With 186 token gear you should hit 3,8-4,2k on the dummy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meleeslayer Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Thanks for the info Flyluke, i will definitely try out the spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyovarde Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I was going to make a thread asking about engineering slinger, but as this threads calls for pro's to help, I will gladly tag along. I love the engineering slinger, always played that specc, but I never took my slinger to competitive raiding so I have no real comparison. With 3.0 I decided I woul like to make the slinger my go-to dps and started to collect some starter gear. I am now in 186's, fully augmented, crafted enhancements (low endurance) with 100,21% accuracy, but my DPS numbers are pathetic. I am just below 3.000 dps when parsing on a dummy and this seems really, really low. That is low. I'm hitting 3400-3500 with all 3 specs in the new 186 gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagosei Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I can hit 3700 np on a dummy with engine. Real importance is what you do during a raid. In my old group I was always the top 2 dps in the operations. So engine is certainly viable. Only lurker can give anyone a little trouble if group doesn't do everything right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyovarde Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) I'm up to 4k consistently now that I have the rotation down. APM could be improved slightly. I've managed to get it up to 36 some tests. 186 gear + 192 weapons. No set pieces. http://swtor-parser.elasticbeanstalk.com/parser/view/31d0253396abcaee2eddad61d06e9a96/0 Edited February 6, 2015 by Kyovarde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Thats exactly what I mean by cleave. You got 4 main abilities that should be used in the single target rotation that will also do damage to anything in the vicinity of the main target. 1) Incindiary Grenade (ground placed Dot damages up to 5 targets) 2) Thermal Grenade (hits Main target and up to 5 with a little bit less) 3) Roll /Scatter Bombs (Approx 10k dmg to anything which is inside the rolling line 4) XS Flyby (Ground placed Dot to hit up to 8 Targets) Thermal Grenade only deals AoE damage to standard and weak enemies. So basically to nothing in Ops or PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardarell_Solo Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 (edited) Thats exactly what I mean by cleave. You got 4 main abilities that should be used in the single target rotation that will also do damage to anything in the vicinity of the main target. 1) Incindiary Grenade (ground placed Dot damages up to 5 targets) 2) Thermal Grenade (hits Main target and up to 5 with a little bit less) 3) Roll /Scatter Bombs (Approx 10k dmg to anything which is inside the rolling line 4) XS Flyby (Ground placed Dot to hit up to 8 Targets) Roll and XS are only used under certain conditions: For Roll the bossfight has to allow the usage of the roll. Some fights do (Malaphar), some fights absolutly don't (Bulo, Revan) XS is quiet energy absorbing and might mess up your managment, so it is to be only used with cool head or illegal mods if you have to continue with your rotation afterwards (i.e. in the Underlurker fight you can regenerate in the rock phase) On the dummy, using the roll I hit just under 5k with a mix of 186 and 192 token gear (Offhand and 1 or 2 peaces are 198) New Setbonus is 6/6 (this gives you about 2-300dps more then 4/6) Since I have done my almost 5k parse I have got some upgrades so when I have got time I will parse again. With 186 token gear you should hit 3,8-4,2k on the dummy You can actually use Freighter without energy cooldowns, if you do it after the roll and right before Sabotage Charge, if you have decent energy at that point. If anyone's interested, you can check out this rotation from a 5200 dummy parse (Just click the tab "Rotation) Btw I'm having trouble with Underlurker HM as the adds can actually slow you while you're rolling, thus stopping you right in the middle, which is a huge annoyance... Edited February 7, 2015 by Ardarell_Solo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaidinah Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 How's the spec on some of these new ops compared to df or ss, have you guys had success? and what are your numbers compared to the other specs. Especially fights like the underlurker, sparky and Revanite Commanders. I've changed my mind to a large degree on the effectiveness of Saboteur in the new ops. Even though it does great damage in ideal scenarios, the amount of extra work needed from the player compared to the other disciplines and the lack of movement from bosses/adds needed to get there is just not worth it in many cases. The energy management when using AoE on any adds that don't die very quickly is painful as Saboteur (like on Underlurker) when you are trying to maximize 4 different skills, which require good positioning and setup to be effective. Since you can't reset your skills anymore to get an effective cooldown of about 1 minute on Cool Head/Adrenaline Probe and Freighter Flyby/Orbital Strike costs 20 energy even in Saboteur spec, it's frustrating. There are a lot of problems with the new Saboteur discipline, but it's been gone over before so I'm not going to rehash them. The sad part is you can get about the same results playing Sharpshooter/Marksman by pressing one button with none of the same requirements and really easy energy management unless the adds take a minimum of 15+ seconds of focus to die on a regular basis (which is never the case in the new ops). At this point, I only run Saboteur on Malaphar, Bulo, and Sword Squadron and just run Sharpshooter on every other fight. You can make it work on the other fights, but you have to play non-optimally and/or selfishly to make it significantly better than the other disciplines by not using your roll defensively and by killing adds slowly to pad your numbers for more AoE uptime. On average with Saboteur, I do about 6k+ on Malaphar with only getting to 7 stacks, around 4k on Bulo while being one of the 2 people who drop Mass Barrage on pirates, and another 4k+ on Sword Squadron whether I run the bomb or not. For the other fights with Sharpshooter on average, I do 4k+ on Sparky, 4k+ on Torque (by killing all the adds, not just the ones I can AoE), 4k on Underlurker, 4k on Revanite Commanders (again not just using AoE to kill adds and interrupting/stunning/knocking back as necessary) and around 3k on Master/Blaster (only beaten the fight recently). These are 16 man numbers as I generally don't play DPS when I'm doing 8 man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camelpockets Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 You can actually use Freighter without energy cooldowns, if you do it after the roll and right before Sabotage Charge, if you have decent energy at that point. If anyone's interested, you can check out this rotation from a 5200 dummy parse (Just click the tab "Rotation) Btw I'm having trouble with Underlurker HM as the adds can actually slow you while you're rolling, thus stopping you right in the middle, which is a huge annoyance... I still don't know how to fiddle with parsely very well, can you change that to english? I'm quite interested to see how other Engineering/Saboteur people play the spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardarell_Solo Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I still don't know how to fiddle with parsely very well, can you change that to english? I'm quite interested to see how other Engineering/Saboteur people play the spec. Unfortunately the language shown there is not a matter of Parsely, it just shows what's in the log. And the log is created on the basis of in which language you are playing. So there's no way of transferring it automatically afterwards. Best I could do is provide the translations for the abilities displayed in the log here in the forums, if you want me to. Not very comfortable though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camelpockets Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) Unfortunately the language shown there is not a matter of Parsely, it just shows what's in the log. And the log is created on the basis of in which language you are playing. So there's no way of transferring it automatically afterwards. Best I could do is provide the translations for the abilities displayed in the log here in the forums, if you want me to. Not very comfortable though... Eh don't worry about it lol. Thanks though! Edit: I just popped the opener into google translate, and saw that you open up with SaboCharge then IncendG and Speed Shot. Did that little change, and dropped 50 crit and my parse went up a good chunk. Yay learning curves! Edited February 9, 2015 by Camelpockets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardarell_Solo Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Eh don't worry about it lol. Thanks though! Edit: I just popped the opener into google translate, and saw that you open up with SaboCharge then IncendG and Speed Shot. Did that little change, and dropped 50 crit and my parse went up a good chunk. Yay learning curves! Congrats on that! I do that to make better use of the energy return from Contingency charges. Sometimes you cap energy when you do Speed Shot right after Sabotage Charge. If you put another ability inbetween that doesn't happen :-) How much Crit do you run now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camelpockets Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) Congrats on that! I do that to make better use of the energy return from Contingency charges. Sometimes you cap energy when you do Speed Shot right after Sabotage Charge. If you put another ability inbetween that doesn't happen :-) How much Crit do you run now? Yeah the enegy management is much nicer! I went down from 343 to 302 (dropped a crit crystal) and its working wonderfully. I was experimenting with crit for a bit, and it seems like 350 is the high end, and maybe 275 is the low end. Now that I have extra crit stuff I was able to test stuff out. I tried a few at 500 and 400, and neither worked out too well lol. And I tried a few at 200, and that wasnt really working to well either. In short, the closer to 300, the better. I think this is a good crit rating for the other specs as well so we dont really need to swap enhancements too much Edited February 9, 2015 by Camelpockets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaos_KidSWTOR Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Unfortunately the language shown there is not a matter of Parsely, it just shows what's in the log. And the log is created on the basis of in which language you are playing. So there's no way of transferring it automatically afterwards. Best I could do is provide the translations for the abilities displayed in the log here in the forums, if you want me to. Not very comfortable though... I'm going to assume Clear Out is Hightail it? and Duck is Cover? and Advanced analgesic Angriffsaufputscher is your Advanced Anodyne Attack Adrenal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camelpockets Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I'm going to assume Clear Out is Hightail it? and Duck is Cover? and Advanced analgesic Angriffsaufputscher is your Advanced Anodyne Attack Adrenal? Thats what I was gathering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardarell_Solo Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I'm going to assume Clear Out is Hightail it? and Duck is Cover? and Advanced analgesic Angriffsaufputscher is your Advanced Anodyne Attack Adrenal? Yep! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexhimbur Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Personally I have more success using sabo than DF, I see many people use DF over sabo though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlionherz Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Personally I have more success using sabo than DF, I see many people use DF over sabo though. guess its because of the numbers. most ppl prefer big numbers. be it dmg done or hard hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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