MorgothPl Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Was leveling my Republic characters, for the achievement, and there was another of the strange light/dark side on Rakata Prime. My sage got to that chamber where the cyborgs "sleep" in stasis, and got the cutscene. Theron tells her, that he can overload the chambers and kill them. Then my sage gets dark side choice - kill them, or light side - wake them up. She of course says "I will not kill man, who sleeps" only to wake them, and kill them all 10 seconds after. What's the logic? They are still dead, and IMO it would be less painful and more "humane" to kill mindless cyborgs while they are in oblivion, and not force them into combat. As Darth Bane said "honor is for fools, corpse is corpse". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jovianus Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Was leveling my Republic characters, for the achievement, and there was another of the strange light/dark side on Rakata Prime. My sage got to that chamber where the cyborgs "sleep" in stasis, and got the cutscene. Theron tells her, that he can overload the chambers and kill them. Then my sage gets dark side choice - kill them, or light side - wake them up. She of course says "I will not kill man, who sleeps" only to wake them, and kill them all 10 seconds after. What's the logic? They are still dead, and IMO it would be less painful and more "humane" to kill mindless cyborgs while they are in oblivion, and not force them into combat. As Darth Bane said "honor is for fools, corpse is corpse". It's the same on Imp side. I was like, 'Since the cyborgs are all going to die anyway..why is the light side choice to keep the information so we can inflict the same torture on other people for our own purposes?' Just lazy writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigilanis Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Guess it is the old 'won't shoot a man in the back' moral compass they are talking about. Same reason as why a Jedi won't fight unless he has to. Fighting a foe to the death is a reality all Jedi must face but they will do everything they can to prevent that before it happens. Therefore it is logical that they would re-animate someone in stasis and attempt to talk to them before resorting to violence. Just my take on it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Kaitou-Kid Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Guess it is the old 'won't shoot a man in the back' moral compass they are talking about. Same reason as why a Jedi won't fight unless he has to. Fighting a foe to the death is a reality all Jedi must face but they will do everything they can to prevent that before it happens. Therefore it is logical that they would re-animate someone in stasis and attempt to talk to them before resorting to violence. Just my take on it anyway. This, pretty much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Isn't it something about the technology not falling into the hands of the empire/republic? Anyway, yes, it's the old "don't shoot a man in the back" thing. If you wake them up, at least it's their own choice to fight you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornyr Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 "You don't know me, son, so let me explain this to you once: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loc_n_lol Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Yeah I'm not fond of that one, but I think the Republic one at least kind of makes sense, it doesn't involve the enslaving technology thing at all. The Imperial one is just wrong... Both choices are dark, the one labelled as light even more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 "You don't know me, son, so let me explain this to you once: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed." Shut up Mal! This is the wrong fandom... go home, you're drunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kysan Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 i think the same "issue" happened on read reaper FP with siths sleeping on capsules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornyr Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Shut up Mal! This is the wrong fandom... go home, you're drunk. It's never wrong to quote Firefly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loc_n_lol Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 i think the same "issue" happened on read reaper FP with siths sleeping on capsules. If you release them, at least some of them just escape without looking for a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreadtechSavant Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Many of the light/dark choices are baffling, take the girl from the so called "true Republic" there you can lightside give the document back or darkside expose the senator to the voters. OK sealing a document I can see that as a dark action but you are not stopping that senator from going down that same path, just making sure the voters know in advance. Are boiware saying that as voters they would not want to know the truth about there government before they vote them into office? Man there must be so many undercover reporters that are so darkside, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpsmash Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Was leveling my Republic characters, for the achievement, and there was another of the strange light/dark side on Rakata Prime. My sage got to that chamber where the cyborgs "sleep" in stasis, and got the cutscene. Theron tells her, that he can overload the chambers and kill them. Then my sage gets dark side choice - kill them, or light side - wake them up. She of course says "I will not kill man, who sleeps" only to wake them, and kill them all 10 seconds after. What's the logic? They are still dead, and IMO it would be less painful and more "humane" to kill mindless cyborgs while they are in oblivion, and not force them into combat. As Darth Bane said "honor is for fools, corpse is corpse". You have the consequentialist point of view. Jedi morality is deontological, that means the morality of an action is derived from the duties of the agent, not from the actual consequences of the action. The intention of the action is more important than its actual consequence, for the purpose of evaluating the morality of an action. As such, if a code of conduct of the Jedi says "don't kill someone who can't defend themselves", it would be immoral to kill someone in stasis. So they wake up and when the Jedi is attacked, their moral code does not forbid them to defend themselves. The actual consequence of the action is still the death of the prisoners, but the motivations are not the same. Thus, the action is not immoral. Edited January 22, 2015 by lpsmash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 You have the consequentialist point of view. Jedi morality is deontological, that means the morality of an action is derived from the duties of the agent, not from the actual consequences of the action. The intention of the action is more important than its actual consequence, for the purpose of evaluating the morality of an action. As such, if a code of conduct of the Jedi says "don't kill someone who can't defend themselves", it would be immoral to kill someone in stasis. So they wake up and when the Jedi is attacked, their moral code does not forbid them to defend themselves. The actual consequence of the action is still the death of the prisoners, but the motivations are not the same. Thus, the action is not immoral. Pretty much. If a jedi had the chance to kill a certain dictator of a European country during the late 30's as he slept, they wouldn't do that, because that would be wrong. Despite the consequences. And that's what alot of people misunderstand in these choices. That's why people argue that torturing someone to save millions of lives should be a lightside choice or at least a neutral one. That's why people argue that sending off a captured defected general in Black Talon, instead of killing him on the spot, should be a dark side choice or at least neutral because he'll end up being tortured or at least locked up for life or maby even killed. But torturing someone is wrong, no matter the reason. Killing someone who has surrendered is also wrong, no matter the reason. Then there's the people who simply have different morals than most. Like that guy a year or two back who argued that the dancer on coruscant who had run away from her controlling, jealous husband should return to him "because it's a wifes duty to be with her husband for life". The dark/light side choices are not based on the normal moral codes of most western countries. Alot of us would consider it a good thing to kill someone who is planning to kill millions. But to "the force" (which these dark/light choices are all about, really... it's not even about the jedi code) it's all about if you are making someone go against their wishes or not. If you are killing someone who is no immediate threat to you or not. It's your action right now that counts. Not the possible consequences of that action later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kissakias Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Was leveling my Republic characters, for the achievement, and there was another of the strange light/dark side on Rakata Prime. My sage got to that chamber where the cyborgs "sleep" in stasis, and got the cutscene. Theron tells her, that he can overload the chambers and kill them. Then my sage gets dark side choice - kill them, or light side - wake them up. She of course says "I will not kill man, who sleeps" only to wake them, and kill them all 10 seconds after. What's the logic? They are still dead, and IMO it would be less painful and more "humane" to kill mindless cyborgs while they are in oblivion, and not force them into combat. As Darth Bane said "honor is for fools, corpse is corpse". You gave them a chance to defend themselvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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