Aurbere Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 No I believe what he notes is that if the Sith Emperor had been able to absorb more living Force, he would have been at full strength, but still in spirit form. This is of course working on the assumption that the Sith Emperor lacks a body, but it seems to me that it was his essence that emerged from the Temple going who knows where. The point being that lore repeatedly demonstrates that spirits have a unique and enhanced connection to the Force. I'm pretty sure one codex says the Emperor is in some sort of spiritual form after being resurrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 Yeah, it's a vague quote. "Many" is a vague term. I'm guessing the source of the power was the big flash of light originating at the site of the final Revan battle, is that correct?Yeah I guess they don't really explain how these people died, the only thing I assume it could be is some kind of Force drain, the effects of an explosion seems unlikely as everyone directly in front of the Temple was fine... Actually that's something important I thought needed to be added to the Sith Emperor's primer, he possesses the ability to drain the Force energy of subjects on a massive scale, and from across the galaxy. He is not able to outright kill them, but if sacrificed he does possess the ability to siphon their energies, which is actually pretty impressive. And if this is a Force drain feat, it proves he can outright kill people in close proximity, and without the assistance of ritual. However I suspect that he could only do this in spirit form, which would ascribe him certain luxuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Yeah I guess they don't really explain how these people died, the only thing I assume it could be is some kind of Force drain, the effects of an explosion seems unlikely as everyone directly in front of the Temple was fine... Actually that's something important I thought needed to be added to the Sith Emperor's primer, he possesses the ability to drain the Force energy of subjects on a massive scale, and from across the galaxy. He is not able to outright kill them, but if sacrificed he does possess the ability to siphon their energies, which is actually pretty impressive. And if this is a Force drain feat, it proves he can outright kill people in close proximity, and without the assistance of ritual. However I suspect that he could only do this in spirit form, which would ascribe him certain luxuries. I always thought it was from the energy gathered to revive him that he was able to do that. But if it is a drain feat, it is quite impressive. Unfortunately, the scale of it isn't exactly clear. And the circumstances don't exactly help either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) Indeed, Marr notes that since he was in spirit form, he was even weaker. He then notes that if Vitiate would have been fully resurrected, that the casualties would have been practically insane. Marr doesn't know much about the Emperor. He was convinced that the Emperor was truly dead. As the Emperor's wrath we learned that he never really died. He's been in a form of "stasis" or a type of "coma" of sorts. We outright tell Marr during Makeb that he's not dead and Marr shrugs it off. Marr's knowledge of the Emperor is lacking. That being said, I do agree with you that Vitiate is one of the most powerful Sith of all time by far and give him more credit than some do on these forums but just pointing out Marr is kind of clueless about him. I also agree he wasn't at his full power. I'm not arguing with you. I just think one needs to be careful when considering Marr's opinion. Edited January 18, 2015 by Rhyltran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Marr doesn't know much about the Emperor. He was convinced that the Emperor was truly dead. As the Emperor's wrath we learned that he never really died. He's been in a form of "stasis" or a type of "coma" of sorts. We outright tell Marr during Makeb that he's not dead and Marr shrugs it off. Marr's knowledge of the Emperor is lacking. That being said, I do agree with you that Vitiate is one of the most powerful Sith of all time by far and give him more credit than some do on these forums but just pointing out Marr is kind of clueless about him. Marr was merely one example. Shan, Wrath, and everyone else also agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Marr was merely one example. Shan, Wrath, and everyone else also agreed. Oh, I know. Completely agree. I'm not debating against you here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 I always thought it was from the energy gathered to revive him that he was able to do that. But if it is a drain feat, it is quite impressive. Unfortunately, the scale of it isn't exactly clear. And the circumstances don't exactly help either.I don't think so, he got that from the casualties of the battle, its made clear that this happens after his resurrection, I expect he nom nommed a few more before fleeing. Anyway I added that to the comparison, as well as some other things, I realised my Sidious vs Sith Emperor comparison was more updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I don't think so, he got that from the casualties of the battle, its made clear that this happens after his resurrection, I expect he nom nommed a few more before fleeing. Anyway I added that to the comparison, as well as some other things, I realised my Sidious vs Sith Emperor comparison was more updated. Yeah, I was referring to the energy from the casualties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 So, back to the question. Where do people place the three? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) Having re-read the feats now fixed with Yoda's and such Control : Yoda Wins : Caedus and Vitiate honestly to close for me to comfortably call Sense: Caedus I still feel wins, but just marginally it could just be over Yoda do to Sidious's blocking of the Light side's senses of Yoda. Vitiate comes in last here Alter: still where I left it All 3 show amazing feats that I am not comfortable making a verdict on, as such its a Tie. Winner by a small margin. Yoda. (edit: to answer "where to place the 3" the answer is I dont know, as by my own admition on how I am conducting myself AND how I am conducting candidates, by any one winning there is a person below him that MUST be considered a candidate. who's feats must be placed side by side for all to see to make fair comparisons BEFORE we put the "two losing cadets" into place I still honestly Think we should be talking about Plagues and Talzin as well, just as a means of fair comparison.) Edited January 18, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 So, back to the question. Where do people place the three? Well, I think I'll reserve my thoughts for when we convene to make the decision. I'm still not too sure about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 Yeah, I was referring to the energy from the casualties.Hmm, but then I don't think he have any left for himself, given that in the end we are talking about restorative power, rather than a temporary amp, I think its best to treat it as just an outburst of his power in that current state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Hmm, but then I don't think he have any left for himself, given that in the end we are talking about restorative power, rather than a temporary amp, I think its best to treat it as just an outburst of his power in that current state. Well, that seems fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 So, back to the question. Where do people place the three? Vitiate > Yoda > Caedus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Well, I think I'll reserve my thoughts for when we convene to make the decision. I'm still not too sure about it. When would we be doing that? @Tune I'd agree about only putting two down and leaving the last spot as the next spot to debate. I am confident I can convince you all of Talzin's superiority to Caedus, and I'm sure Aurbere feels the same about Plageuis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcheseAMM Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 @Tune I'd agree about only putting two down and leaving the last spot as the next spot to debate. I am confident I can convince you all of Talzin's superiority to Caedus, and I'm sure Aurbere feels the same about Plageuis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 When would we be doing that? @Tune I'd agree about only putting two down and leaving the last spot as the next spot to debate. I am confident I can convince you all of Talzin's superiority to Caedus, and I'm sure Aurbere feels the same about Plageuis. Whenever you and Beni feel that it's time. And, yes, I would feel confident in an argument for Plagueis being placed above Caedus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) When would we be doing that? @Tune I'd agree about only putting two down and leaving the last spot as the next spot to debate. I am confident I can convince you all of Talzin's superiority to Caedus, and I'm sure Aurbere feels the same about Plageuis. Truthfully I only want to put one down, for right now, and then make more comparisons with other characters to make sure its all done systematically and gets everything assuredly right. Those other spots may go quickly they may not, but for me I want to see it done 100% properly systematic, just 1 at a time. Take our time, make sure it gets done right. Edited January 18, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 Well my thoughts are as follows: Control I give to Yoda, its evident in his duel against ROTS Sidious that we was faster and stronger than him and as a result Sidious was losing the lightsaber duel. That is damn impressive and not something I think Caedus can match. Also just for reference here one of the feats Aurbere referred to: Three members of the council - Plo Koon, Saesee Tiin, and Depa Billaba, excellent fighters all - had come forward and attacked him. Master Yoda had not been armed, and had not seemed to move more than a meter or so, his tread slow and measured. Nevertheless, none of the three had been able to lay a finger on him. --Taken from Darth Maul Shadow Hunter Koon and Depa being just as good as Fisto and Kolar, if not better to be honest. Especially Depa, whose mastery over Vaapad was profound and rivaled that even of Master Windu. This is just as impressive as Sidious' feat. And then of course he repelled Sidious lightning as well, better than Caedus or the Sith Emperor could have done. The Sith Emperor's feats are very impressive, but very much based on knowledge and understanding, rather than power. Query though Aurbere, when did Yoda disarm Sidious? What that in the vision or something, or the script? Sense I think its obvious that Caedus is the best at, and not just because he has more feats, I think his mastery over the field, which he made a concerted effort to build upon, is superior and for the most part unprecedented. Yoda > Sith Emperor though, who seems really kinda lacking, perhaps he had the same problem as Scourge. And yes Alter is very difficult to call, because they are all very impressive. In my past comparison I stated Caedus and the Sith Emperor to be equals, even with the Sith Emperor's Force Drain abilities, because we cannot forget this was basically the pinnacle of his ritualistic powers, the result of a thousand years of study, very knowledge dependent. However even taken with a heavy heaping of salt, Yoda did still TK entire armies, armies of battle droids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Whenever you and Beni feel that it's time. And, yes, I would feel confident in an argument for Plagueis being placed above Caedus. I'd likewise argue about Plagueis being above Caedus. Same with Talzin. I'd argue Talzin > Plagueis though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) Yoda disarmed Sidious in the script. Edit: I linked it in my Yoda thread. @Rhyltran, not sure about Talzin over Plagueis, but it is conceivable. Edited January 18, 2015 by Aurbere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 Also folks don't feel the need to rank them, for now I think it best to just decide who is superior overall i.e. #3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) I'd likewise argue about Plagueis being above Caedus. Same with Talzin. I'd argue Talzin > Plagueis though. Any one wanting to argue either of those above yoda? Above Vitiate? I believe we should at least put feats side by side, just for the sake of accuracy. Edited January 18, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Any one wanting to argue either of those above yoda? Above Vitiate? I believe we should at least put feats side by side, just for the sake of Posterity. I wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 I'd likewise argue about Plagueis being above Caedus. Same with Talzin. I'd argue Talzin > Plagueis though.I would vehemently disagree, but the rules say I have to stay calm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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