Poll: To be precise...

[Scarab_]

/Farnsworth "Good News Everyone..."

 

 

Hey folks,

 

We know there has been concern from the Sentinel and Marauder community about the status of their class, and when they might be receiving changes. Sents and Maras will see changes in update 3.1.1. As a secondary note, it is our plan that in some cases we will also put our minor patches (such as 3.1.1) on PTS. This way we can get some additional testing, especially around class changes.

 

Thanks everyone!

 

-eric

 

 

So it turns out we are actually getting some attention. Like many of you, I dont understand why we couldn't get this little bit of feedback much earlier - it could have gone a long way to alleviate some of the frustration many of us have been feeling - but Neverthelss, CHANGE is coming.

 

I know lots of you have your own ideas about how this could work, but please keep in mind, the devs have their own ideas too, and they're likely going to choose theirs over ours. The least [or maybe best] we can do, is give them some feedback about what is troubling us the most, and be precise about what needs to be fixed and what doesn't - so that what's not broken doesn't end up getting "fixed" too.

 

They're tons of threads about all this stuff, so I was hoping we could have one that is more consolidated and easy to look over. Please stick to the format and keep additional comments short and on point.

 

1. In Each specialization... {Please be sure to indicate which spec you're referring too}

Watchman/Annihilation needs

• a complete overhaul
  
• major tweaks
  
• minor tweaks
  
• to be left alone
  

 

Combat/Carnage needs

• a complete overhaul
  
• major tweaks
  
• minor tweaks
  
• to be left alone
  

 

Concentration/Fury needs

• a complete overhaul
  
• major tweaks
  
• minor tweaks
  
• to be left alone
  

 

2. If we are to get more utilities, what would be best?

• More Crowd Control
  
• Crowd Control Immunity
  
• Stronger Damage Reduction
  
• Anti-kiting tools
  
• Expanded Stealth
  
• Self-healing
  
• Other - please be concise
  

 

3. Overall the class needs...

• A complete overhaul
  
• More Utility.
  
• More Survivability.
  
• Should be left alone.
  

 

4. Overall I am mostly concerned with...

• End-game PvE content
  
• PvE Other - leveling etc.
  
• PvP Balance
  
• All of the above
  

 

Thanks. Here's hoping to better days ahead.

[Scarab_]

I guess I'll start things off..

 

1. Anni - Overhaul. Rotation is sloppy/unplayable. Awful in new end-game content

Carnage - Left Alone. Burst DPS is great. Fun to play. Would benefit from utility

Fury - Left Alone. Seems ok, but I've limited experience in 3.0

 

2. CC Immunity or resists would go a long way IMO towards balancing everything else. BUT i'd take any utility at this point.

 

 

3. More Survivability

 

 

4. PvP Balance. Anni also needs help to become viable again in end-game PvE which was what many want/use it for.

 

Just my 2 cents, but things aren't as bad as some make it seem. I'm more in favor of smaller changes than an overhaul which could ruin some of what works well, but not everyone is going to agree with me.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Scarab_

[BDragonSith]

1. Carnage

- Left Alone. maybe minor tweaks for Utilities to be more relevant.

 

2.

-Crowd Control Immunity and Anti-Kiting Tools! They only effect PvP, but they would be very nice to have.

 

3.

-Survivability. The class is weak enough in PvE settings, but its amplified in PvP.

 

4.

-All of the Above (PvE, End-game, and PvP). I enjoy all of them.

[QuiveringPotato]

1. In Each specialization...

 

Watchman/Annihilation needs:

Major Tweaks. Like others have said, pre 3.0 Annihilation was pretty much perfect, they should've just had Force Rend be a replacer for Rupture.

 

Combat/Carnage needs:

Minor Tweaks. I feel like carnage/combat is good, but we could use our 4.5s gore window back, and also maybe something to alleviate the "massacre spam" we're suffering right now. Losing Rupture, Crippling Throw, and Retaliation hurt this spec the most, as they already had a small amount of rotational abilities.

 

Concentration/Fury needs:

Minor Tweaks. I'm not really sure what they could do to make this class better, as I feel like it has a decent flow to it and everything, but personally I've always felt like Rage was much smoother on a jugg. Maybe just less complexity, some streamlining.

 

 

2. If we are to get more utilities, what would be best?

Definitely Anti-kiting tools and CC immunity. These 2 things are virtually our only problems in PVP.

 

3. Overall the class needs...

More utility, and more survivability.

 

4. Overall I am mostly concerned with...

End-game PVE (although this applies to all melee classes, as far as I know)

PVP balance.

[Morthwyll]

1. Anni - Overhaul. Rotation is sloppy/unplayable. Awful in new end-game content

Carnage - Left Alone. Burst DPS is great. Fun to play. Would benefit from utility

Fury - Left Alone. Seems ok, but I've limited experience in 3.0

2. CC Immunity or resists would go a long way IMO towards balancing everything else. (...)

3. More Survivability

4. PvP Balance. Anni also needs help to become viable again in end-game PvE which was what many want/use it for.

 

Pretty much ^this^ but I would additionally like to see:

ad. 1

Carnage/Combat - a bit longer Carnage/Precision (1 or even 0.5sec should suffice), so we could actually use Ravage/Master Strike comfortably with it.

 

ad. 2

Extension of anti-kiting tools seems to be proper idea too.

CC immunities (anti-snare/root mostly) count toward these tools though.

 

ad. 3

More survivability but gained not by more defensive cooldowns or self heals, but mostly by ways to counter CC.

TBH Maras/Sent are pretty tough, if played properly, but they can't use their tools when locked in stuns.

 

IMHO we just need to get some nice utilities with ways to counter CC and maybe some small tweaks here and there (like changing part of the utility passives to core) to get pretty balanced class in PvP.

 

I'm not big on PvE though, but the static dps (on dummy) seems ok, maybe a bit subpar compared to other melee/short range classes, but it's more consistent because of how Maras/Sents manage their resources, therefore in longer fights performs well enough (if Mara/Sent can stay in range ofcourse).

Edited January 20, 2015 by Morthwyll

[DarkNecroCrusher]

Great idea, other threads about this are becoming messy, because of the countless, scattered ideas in them.

 

1. Disciplines :

 

Watchman/Annihilation needs :

 

A complete overhaul : I've tested it after 3.0 to see if the spec really changed and became competitive in PvP. It only felt clunky to me compared to the 2.X version of the spec and too flabby. Make the spec smooth and fun again please.

 

 

Combat/Carnage needs :

 

Major tweaks : The spec feels like there is something missing to stay on the target (a root with Crippling Throw/Deadly Throw or ONE use of Leg Slash/Vicious Slash with Just Pursuit/Inescapable IMO).

 

Also we lost all our passive skills with 3.0 for them to be shared with the 2 other specs, only beeing able to take back 75% of them with utilities.

 

Finally, Gore/Precision could become a 3 stacks buff with a X seconds timer. You lose 1 stack when using any damaging skill, and 2 stacks during the use of Master Strike/Ravage (first stack on the first hit and second stack on the last hit). The buff timer and the skill CD don't trigger as long as you don't lose the first stack. This would help us using our window correctly, as well as Master Strike/Ravage. Enemy players would have to think twice before stunning us, bumping us or escape during our Master Strike/Ravage + Precision/Gore stacks, but there would still be a way to shut our burst down.

The window system is now too easy to shut down or counter, and the mechanic above seems fun, complete and fair to me.

 

 

Concentration/Fury needs :

 

Minor tweaks : The spec feels quite balanced and incentive to play right now, mono-target burst with AOE possibilities, Focus/Rage swimming and mobility + control. The only problem is maybe the defensive part of it that could be tuned up a little.

 

 

2. If we are to get more utilities, what would be best ? :

 

Crowd Control Immunity : at least 1 utility for this, like beeing immune to CC for X seconds after exiting Force Camouflage (could replace existing Expunging Camouflage effects).

 

Anti-kiting tools : make Just Pursuit/Inescapable utility root on ONE use of the skill every 10 seconds instead of two. 1 Heroic utility point for a 4m root every 10 seconds is not worth the investment.

 

OR EVEN BETTER : completely remove Leg Slash/Vicious Slash and replace it by Crippling Throw/Deadly Throw, but with the same effects (Focus/Rage cost, no CD, 10 seconds slow and trauma), in addition to the change needed on Just Pursuit/Inescapable utility (ONE use root, see above).

 

A 10m root every 10 seconds with an Heroic utility point seems fair to me.

 

Finally, Force Camouflage should be a root/slow breaker BASELINE to me.

 

 

3. Overall the class needs :

 

More Utility : Better/more incentive utilities in general, especially concerning GbtF/UR and utilities that should be baseline (like Defensive Forms for example).

Also, there are too many utilities tied to one skill on the same tier.

 

Please give us utilities with real choices to make instead of default utilities to take because everything else is NOT incentive at all.

 

More Survivability : Make the appropriate changes to GbtF/UR to begin with. Then buff Saber Ward by adding a passive effect like Guardians/Juggs already have with a passive ability AT LEVEL 10 (100% defense against melee/range attacks for 2 seconds when activated).

Maybe like reducing the baseline CD to 2 min with a passive ability ?

 

 

4. Overall I am mostly concerned with :

 

PvP Balance : You said that the new specs system you called disciplines would allow you to balance your game easily and faster. Now you have to show us it was not a lie. No more hybrids, no more excuses.

 

My Sentinel seems to be a flipper ball in PvP since 3.0 launch, not to mention that the CC fest is even worst than pre 3.0.

Please do something, we really need some QoL changes.

 

 

Hope you will achieve the tweaks needed for the class by listening to us like you did more or less with 2.10 and some 3.0 changes.

Edited January 20, 2015 by DarkNecroCrusher

[ElcorHamlet]

1. Watchmen/Annihilation: Major tweaks. Rupture and melt Dot durations are too long, dot spread on smash is clunky.

Combat/Carnage: Minor tweaks. Not burtsy enough. More ravage damage, less massacre damage maybe. Needs deadly throw back more than the other two specs.

Fury/Concentration. This one is pretty much fine.

2. More anti-kting tools. Deadly throw would be one of those

3. More utility. They really aren't as bad as people are making them out to be. They have always had a high skill requirement, but right now they are too susceptible to roots in pvp.

[Darth_Sennin]

Marauder/Sentinel should be the fastest running characters..in...the...game. Period. Screw predation as a group buff. No one wants to be a buff class. And for all the arguments about how marauders should never receive utilities/cc immunities etc b/c of Bloodthirst...well that is over, all classes have raid buffs now.

 

Ranged have 15% run speed bonuses. Fine, give marauder/sent 30% for relative speed (all specs not just Carnage, defensive forms for ataru form only is plain stupid). I have no idea what warped reality would cause a dev to make ranged chars be as fast/faster than melee characters, especially in the CC fest that this game is. This game was already called Stun Wars in beta, who knows what to even call it now.

 

Annihilation should just have Force Rend replace Rupture, and be 6 second cd and a 6 second dot duration. No long term dots, they ruin the speed/feel/fun of the class.

 

Carnage needs a longer gore window, good job morons who wanted a shorter gore window so that "you wouldn't lose as much dps if you were stunned/interrupted." Truly, like a moron who votes against their own interest at the polls.

 

As far as cc immunity, it's simple, give marauder Unstoppable as a utility or at least in the Annihilation disc, since devs probably fear giving that skill to Carnage. But Unstoppable from Vengeance Jugg would give cc immunity and much needed front line survivability.

 

If they don't want to give cc immunity / survivability via Unstoppable, then fine, make Marauder/Sentinel a full on stealth class, since you obviously won't let us dps on front line. Not even going to ask for better resource management that the other classes get where they ignore resource costs and spam away according to what's not on cooldown, wack-a-mole style (Sorcs, Sins, Conc ops, Arsenal merc, we're lookin at you).

 

Oh and since we have zero utility and we're a dps class, there's an easy way to fix our lack of aoe dps, not stupid dot spread or that retardedly narrow cone of Dual saber throw....a new ability called:

 

SABER STORM (like that?, it's almost like Force Storm, such a low bar to be more creative than a dev)

No cooldown (check)

1 rage cost (negligable cost, check)

3 second channel that ravages up to 8 targets within 8m radius (it's shorter w/ alot of dmg, but it's not 30m range)

 

What my real expectations are?

-That they will determine that Mara/sent are currently overpowered and Undying Rage will now take away half yer life at beginning and half at the end, and be renamed to Undying Frustration, but all the player will call it...U're Fooked.

 

GG Bioware. You guys would be finished if this game wasn't the Star Wars franchise and you know it, and this is also why players care about you guys taking a dump on our Star Wars fantasies.

 

As an example of why we're screwed...behold this GEM of Bioware logic/wisdom: ( Shoulder cannon anyone????)

The team is actively discussing taking Retaliation/Riposte off the GCD. Normally, we do not want damage abilities to be off the GCD, however, both the Shield Tech/Shield Specialist and Darkness Assassin/Kinetic Combat Shadow already have major rotation skills (Dark Ward/Kinetic Ward and Heat Blast/Energy Blast) off the GCD. If these changes are made, we will definitely readdress the current changes to the Immortal Juggernaut/Defense Guardian.

 

To those confused by the Immortal Juggernaut/Defense Guardian changes: We found that the Discipline was not performing to our DPS goals for tanks. The current changes are simply for balancing and maintaining our vision for the class.

 

Concerning balancing/changes for other classes, tanking or otherwise: Keep an ear and eye open for upcoming news. This is just the start of balancing for the season, and we have plenty more to come!

 

Thank you all for the support and continued feedback. The best way for us to help the community is by hearing your voice. Keep it coming!

 

So to recap, tickle saber abilities like Retaliation and Gore get low/zero damage b/c off the GCD but Shoulder Cannon can global you.Shoulder Cannon can global you.Shoulder Cannon can global you.Shoulder Cannon can global you.Shoulder Cannon can global you.Shoulder Cannon can global you.Shoulder Cannon can global you.Shoulder Cannon can global you.Shoulder Cannon can global you.Shoulder Cannon can global you.

 

Jeff Foxworthy needs a new show: "Can you design games better than a 5th Grader?" Well can you BW?

[g_mK]

 

Finally, Gore/Precision could become a 3 stacks buff with a X seconds timer. You lose 1 stack when using any damaging skill, and 2 stacks during the use of Master Strike/Ravage (first stack on the first hit and second stack on the last hit). The buff timer and the skill CD don't trigger as long as you don't lose the first stack. This would help us using our window correctly, as well as Master Strike/Ravage. Enemy players would have to think twice before stunning us, bumping us or escape during our Master Strike/Ravage + Precision/Gore stacks, but there would still be a way to shut our burst down.

The window system is now too easy to shut down or counter, and the mechanic above seems fun, complete and fair to me.

 

That would be bad since it negates the benefits of having 33% alacrity.

[g_mK]

Watchman: Overhaul

Combat: 4.5 second PS window

Fury: Buff Focused burst and Concentrated slice

Utility: Make GBtF cost no health and usable while CC'd

Edited January 20, 2015 by g_mK

[xvlasis]

"I know lots of you have your own ideas about how this could work, but please keep in mind, the devs have their own ideas too, and they're likely going to choose theirs over ours"

that exactly is the problem.so far ,it has been clealry shown that the devs do not know a thing about balance and have no serious gametime with the characters in order to know what is going on

[DarkNecroCrusher]

That would be bad since it negates the benefits of having 33% alacrity.

 

It won't change anything except that your window will be harder to shut down.

 

Currently, with 33% alacrity, you can't put more than 3 skills in your window (3 skills for 2 ~1.127 seconds GCD).

 

With my suggestion, you will be able to put 3 skills in your window the exact same way, but you can't be shut down with a simple bump/stun or kiting tool.

 

Example :

 

Live : You have 33% alacrity with your 6 Zen/Berserk stacks and your ennemy is stunned, with no possible way (or player) to shut your burst down or interrupt you, you will be able to use only 3 damaging skills in your 3 seconds Precision/Gore window (Precision/Gore + BR/Massacre > 1.127 sec GCD > CB/DB > 1.127 GCD > Dispatch/VT > GCD + end of your window).

 

Suggestion : You have 33% alacrity with your 6 Zen/Berserk stacks and your ennemy is stunned, with no possible way (or player) to shut your burst down or interrupt you.

 

You use Precision/Gore and you have now the 3 stacks buff and your Precision/Gore skill shadowed, unable to be used again, both waiting for a damaging skill to be used to trigger respectively the timer and the CD.

 

You will be able to use your 3 damaging skills the same way as above (BR/Massacre + trigger of buff timer + trigger of Precision/Gore CD + 1 stack lost > 1.127 sec GCD > CB/DB + 1 stack lost > 1.127 GCD > Dispatch/VT + 1 stack lost + end of your window).

 

 

Convinced ? I don't understand your concern about alacrity.

 

It will only make you able to keep using skills in your window after a 4 seconds stun, a bump or kiting tool.

 

Also, if you want to use Master Strike/Ravage in your window, you will be able to cut the channeling before the last hit to use only 1 stack, then use a CB/DB and a Dispatch/VT.

 

Another situation : when using Master Strike/Ravage, you are stunned/bumped or kited before the last hit (only 1 stack lost), so you have still 2 stacks to use 2 skills after getting on your target again if your stacks didn't fade away.

 

If your enemy wants to shut your burst down, he has to stun you after your first damaging skill and wait for your stacks to fade away.

 

I think the appropriate buff timer for Precision/Gore stacks would be 6 seconds.

 

What are you thinking about that ? To me, 4.5 seconds window again will be OP.

Edited January 20, 2015 by DarkNecroCrusher

[g_mK]

It won't change anything except that your window will be harder to shut down.

 

Currently, with 33% alacrity, you can't put more than 3 skills in your window (3 skills for 2 ~1.127 seconds GCD).

 

With my suggestion, you will be able to put 3 skills in your window the exact same way, but you can't be shut down with a simple bump/stun or kiting tool.

 

Example :

 

Live : You have 33% alacrity with your 6 Zen/Berserk stacks and your ennemy is stunned, with no possible way (or player) to shut your burst down or interrupt you, you will be able to use only 3 damaging skills in your 3 seconds Precision/Gore window (Precision/Gore + BR/Massacre > 1.127 sec GCD > CB/DB > 1.127 GCD > Dispatch/VT > GCD + end of your window).

 

Suggestion : You have 33% alacrity with your 6 Zen/Berserk stacks and your ennemy is stunned, with no possible way (or player) to shut your burst down or interrupt you.

 

You use Precision/Gore and you have now the 3 stacks buff and your Precision/Gore skill shadowed, unable to be used again, both waiting for a damaging skill to be used to trigger respectively the timer and the CD.

 

You will be able to use your 3 damaging skills the same way as above (BR/Massacre + trigger of buff timer + trigger of Precision/Gore CD + 1 stack lost > 1.127 sec GCD > CB/DB + 1 stack lost > 1.127 GCD > Dispatch/VT + 1 stack lost + end of your window).

 

 

Convinced ? I don't understand your concern about alacrity.

 

It will only make you able to keep using skills in your window after a 4 seconds stun, a bump or kiting tool.

 

Also, if you want to use Master Strike/Ravage in your window, you will be able to cut the channeling before the last hit to use only 1 stack, then use a CB/DB and a Dispatch/VT.

 

Another situation : when using Master Strike/Ravage, you are stunned/bumped or kited before the last hit (only 1 stack lost), so you have still 2 stacks to use 2 skills after getting on your target again if your stacks didn't fade away.

 

If your enemy wants to shut your burst down, he has to stun you after your first damaging skill and wait for your stacks to fade away.

 

I think the appropriate buff timer for Precision/Gore stacks would be 6 seconds.

 

What are you thinking about that ? To me, 4.5 seconds window again will be OP.

 

The problem is that you are seeing it just from a PvP point of view. A stack system would be a DPS reduction since currently a good sent is able to put in 3 attacks on a PS window in PVE without zen, on a class that struggles already to keep up with ranged. Also in PVE not getting the last tick of MS is a major DPS loss. A 4.5sec window would be OP only if we had cc immunity like Guardians.

[DarkNecroCrusher]

Can you put more than 3 attacks in a window with Zen/Berserk up, with or without a stack system, even if you go full alacrity on your gear ? No. You need more than 50% alacrity to use a 4th attack in your window.

 

Can you put 3 attacks in a window without Zen/Berserk up, with or without a stack system ? Yes.

 

It would be the exact same thing. In PvP, you can already use 3 attacks in a window without the 30% alacrity buff (3% alacrity = ~1.456 seconds GCD). It's not a matter of DPS, but of a burst window too easy to shut down.

 

With the stacks system, it won't change anything in PvE, it would even be better.

 

Cause now, only if you have a macro, you can't avoid the server ability delay and you will automatically lose time between the use of Precision/Gore and of your first damaging skill. Even if it's out of GCD, you are not a robot, and you can't press 2 buttons at the exact same time.

 

With a stack system, you can prepare and put your window in standby just after a leap, and you won't lose time because your window's timer and your Precision/Gore CD will trigger at the exact moment you will use your first damaging skill.

 

Now I really want that you explain me how it would be a DPS reduction, but with more details and arguments.

Edited January 21, 2015 by DarkNecroCrusher

[eastevil]

I'm not holding my breath with any proposed changes especially when the PR monkey musco is the one announcing "changes". Hell i doubt even musco plays this game. *reminisces of an old stream where musco is force speed backpedalling*

 

My advice is just to switch to another class for s4 instead of dreaming up fairytales on what could be which probably won't be.

Edited January 21, 2015 by eastevil

[Morthwyll]

About the Gore giving stacks instead of timed buff

That would be bad since it negates the benefits of having 33% alacrity.

 

Easily fixable with Berserk/Zen giving one more stack to it - "If used under Berserk/Zen it will grant 4 stacks instead." - the effectiveness stays the same.

[ishbindeinvater]

Watchman/Annihilation needs

• 
   
  
• major tweaks
   
  
• self-healing isnt enough especially compared to the buffs and new skills of other classes (sin and sorc, i am looking at you). 1% --> 2% and with berserk 3%
  
• our dots should be on short duration and hard hitting --> rupture back on a CD and 6 sec DoT-duration
  
• forc rend doesnt fit to a marauder. One solution would be give annihiliate a 3 sec hard hitting DoT (so a marauder will be more dangerous the longer he fights due to annihilator)
  
• smash doesnt fit into the rotation and it doesnt really work for DoT-spreading. If we really need DoT-spreading, give it to Dual Saber Throw and lower the CD on it.
  
• instead of force rend we need a new lv 57 skill, perhaps a stronger rupture, or an AoE rupture?!
   
  

 

Combat/Carnage needs

• minor tweaks: its hard to deliver our only melee damage with all those CC happening and we are too easily to completly shut down. Especially within our gore window which is now even shorter.
   
  
• make us immune to CC while in gore window
  
• +20% ravage buff (like vengeance gets)
  
• everybody seemed to be pleased with the old force scream, so you probably should take away DB and instead give us a new and better version (and cooler looking) of ravage? AoE-ravage perhaps? (Blade Storm)
   
  

 

Concentration/Fury needs

• 
   
  
• minor tweaks
   
  
• it feels weak or clunky when compared to Juggernaut Rage spec (perhaps because of Enrage vs. Fury Berserk)
  
• we have no real AoE spec anymore, the damage of Smash should be higher in this spec
  
• Force Leap 0-30m not 10-30. Its strange to have to run away in the middle of a fight and jump back in. Annoying in PvP AND PvE.
   
  

 

2. If we are to get more utilities, what would be best?

• 
   
  
• Crowd Control Immunity: discipline dependend
  
• Stronger Damage Reduction: Cloak of Pain 20% DR instead of lowering 20% of incoming damage
  
• Anti-kiting tools: Predation should not be only a cleanse but an immunity for the duration or just an immunity withouth the cleanse (like enduring pain for juggs)
  
• Expanded Stealth: no, but inherent cleanse on Force Camouflage
  
• UR useable while CCed
  
• either no health loss on UR or total CC immunity while UR
  
• i have a good idea for an UR addition: after UR ends (and you lose 1/2 of your life) all people who did damage to you will have 50% of their damage thrown back to them. That would keep the "unique" health loss but does REALLY fit into the class.
  
• another idea about UR: 99% health loss in the beginning but we gain a 50% self heal while it lasts
  
• another idea about UR: while UR your damage is +30%
  
• overall i find our Lv51 skill a little underwhelming when compared to other classes. They get really game changing abilities (the rolls, the teleport, the reflect, the bubble, the net, the cannons) but we get just another standard low damage ability which has a rather high CD for its low damage. It should be tweaked or totally changed. For example it could be a root instead of a slow or a much better slow (70%). Currently it hits mostly only 2 people in average at once. A change could be, if it hits just one person it does 200% of the damage, when it hits 2 it does 150% and when it hits 3+ it does 100%.
  

 

4. Overall I am mostly concerned with...

• PvP Balance
  

Edited January 21, 2015 by ishbindeinvater

[g_mK]

Can you put more than 3 attacks in a window with Zen/Berserk up, with or without a stack system, even if you go full alacrity on your gear ? No. You need more than 50% alacrity to use a 4th attack in your window.

 

Can you put 3 attacks in a window without Zen/Berserk up, with or without a stack system ? Yes.

 

It would be the exact same thing. In PvP, you can already use 3 attacks in a window without the 30% alacrity buff (3% alacrity = ~1.456 seconds GCD). It's not a matter of DPS, but of a burst window too easy to shut down.

 

With the stacks system, it won't change anything in PvE, it would even be better.

 

Cause now, only if you have a macro, you can't avoid the server ability delay and you will automatically lose time between the use of Precision/Gore and of your first damaging skill. Even if it's out of GCD, you are not a robot, and you can't press 2 buttons at the exact same time.

 

With a stack system, you can prepare and put your window in standby just after a leap, and you won't lose time because your window's timer and your Precision/Gore CD will trigger at the exact moment you will use your first damaging skill.

 

Now I really want that you explain me how it would be a DPS reduction, but with more details and arguments.

 

You can TST>PS>BR>CB or Dispatch>PS>BR>CB without zen. I'm not saying that I'm against a stack system, I'm simply concerned on not reducing the DPS for pve, the stack system could work though I would make it so that MS only consumes one stack or I would buff the damage done by MS

Edited January 21, 2015 by g_mK

[DarkNecroCrusher]

TST : Twin saber throw ?

 

PS : Precision Slash ?

[g_mK]

TST : Twin saber throw ?

 

PS : Precision Slash ?

 

Yes, that is correct

[Ld-Siris]

Most people have said it but I would like to iterate that in PvP you shouldn't really be using ravage under fire because A) ravage's damage was cut in half (and health pools increase in top of it) and B) ravage can be easily countered.

 

I actually like the way carnage plays now. More reliable burst and with ravage having almost half the CD I can use it more like a control feature.

 

Again I speak on a PvP basis.

[Arikata]

Watchman/Annihilation

Major tweaks: Better DoT spread as many have already said but also a better way to apply them, for example; instead of applying cauterize and melt followed by force sweep (which takes forever, uses too much focus and usually mobs are dead by then) have overload saber proc TST (removes rng on current proc) and would apply DoT's to X amount of targets. This would be a much more efficient way to apply DoT spread but it also gives us our AOE damage instantly as we need it as soon as mobs spawn on bosses not 3-4secs after with the current rotation (all other classes have good aoe abilities which they can activate immediately granted most are channels but its quicker and more efficient that what we have)

 

Force Melt - It currently does work within the rotation but at times feels out of place and can sometimes throw you off, imo it would be better off the gcd (maybe only when it procs?) and that would help it fit into the rotation more comfortably.

 

Increased self-heal would be nice to help us have abit more survivability

 

I wont comment on utilities as most have said the tweaks needed there and i agree with a lot of them.

Main focus is PVE and i mostly use Watchman

[SBR_QuorTek]

/Farnsworth "Good News Everyone..."

 

 

1. In Each specialization... {Please be sure to indicate which spec you're referring too}

Watchman/Annihilation needs

• a complete overhaul
  
• major tweaks
  
• minor tweaks
  
• to be left alone
  

 

Combat/Carnage needs

• a complete overhaul
  
• major tweaks
  [X]minor tweaks - precision back to 4.5 second window, slight increase in damage here and there, mostly due to ataru forms loss of additional accuracy.
  
• to be left alone
  

 

Concentration/Fury needs

• a complete overhaul
  
• major tweaks
  
• minor tweaks
  
• to be left alone
  

 

2. If we are to get more utilities, what would be best?

• 
  [X]More Crowd Control - not really sure, am sure other classes should handle that
  [X]Crowd Control Immunity - maybe a slight boost here and there-
  [X]Stronger Damage Reduction - Sentinels has some of the best defensive cooldowns in game, I don't see and issue and I haven't felt it being a problem yet, remove HP taken by guarded by the force maybe.
  
• Anti-kiting tools -
  [-]Expanded Stealth - no mara/sents are not shadows
  [-]Self-healing - none needed, maybe a small percentage boost with a choice in routing around your specs.
  [X]Other - please be concise - for starters do not remove anything or any system what we already got, rather enhance current problems here and there.
  

 

3. Overall the class needs...

• A complete overhaul
  [X]More Utility. - little more utility maybe, but not much
  [-]More Survivability. - has plenty of that already, now use it.
  
• Should be left alone.
  

 

4. Overall I am mostly concerned with...

• 
  [X]End-game PvE content - maybe a bonus here and there due to alot of the mechanics can prove rather mean being up close, not just for sents but also other close range classes.
  
• PvE Other - leveling etc.
  [X]PvP Balance - balance classes after each other, don't scream nerf, but rather adjust it so everyone has a fair play ground, we don't want a bunch of broken classes but rather a bunch of working.
  
• All of the above
  

 

Thanks. Here's hoping to better days ahead.

 

There my thoughts, some of it I am not really sure as in I am leaving what I do master and putting that into the 'poll'