Slot Machine: Just rolled 5000 chips

[lironBD]

Except.. the only rep items you can get are for the very first series of pack rep. All the later ones... still only available from packs.

 

Gee... they make it easy for a player to get rep that they most likely already have maxed out... more then a year ago.

 

drop rate on those rep items was so low I never bothered and 80% of my guild only maxed their rep with this slot machine.

 

more then that I recently purchased 2 hypercrates of the previous cartel pack and had only enough rep items to get champion not legend...

 

Now that I know I can get certs from the machine and rep items I predict already new slot machines for the other CM vendors to be released hence I won't open any packs.

 

 

So you ran a 5000 coin experiment (allegedly).

 

Built an editorial in the forum, using deliberate confirmation bias, to demonstrate the evil of your dropping 5000 coins into a slot. Your data does not match previous data from a good number of players posting in the forum this week, but we are supposed to ignore them and believe you?

 

Feel better now?

 

Guess what.... nothing you say, or no matter how mad you get, Bioware will not adjust drop rates based on your input. If you have a genuine concern.. then file a bug report and maybe.. maybe.. they will agree with you and make adjustments to the drop rates. Or, maybe not. See.. Bioware has all the analytics on the economy, not us. It's up to them to review that data, compare it to their planned intention, and then make adjustments over time, if needed.

 

So where to begin...

I provided pictures as proof, perhaps you wanted to stand near me for 4 hours while I was rolling?

the prices for the rep items are fixed just count how many I got and see for yourself.

the fact I managed to get almost 1000 +- from each mats token is atrocious for the crew skills part of the game. period.

 

I provide the info, I state what I learned and placed pictures as findings, bioware can do whatever they wish same as I and other who thinks like me can unsub until such time the game will change to a more enjoyable way of gameplay for some of us or stay unsubbed if it stays the same.

 

It's already dumbbed down so much the fact crafting and crew skills getting further dumbbed down just mind boggling.

Edited January 17, 2015 by lironBD

[Andryah]

drop rate on those rep items was so low I never bothered and 80% of my guild only maxed their rep with this slot machine.

 

more then that I recently purchased 2 hypercrates of the previous cartel pack and had only enough rep items to get champion not legend...

 

Now that I know I can get certs from the machine and rep items I predict already new slot machines for the other CM vendors to be released hence I won't open any packs.

 

You are ignoring the key point...... deliberately I might add -----> the reputation in questions is well over a year old. They are simply giving players another way to get old rep... which frankly is not uncommon in MMOs.... though most of them do it by raising rates of rep for current tokens + lower the rep rates needed to achieve rep levels. This approach is simply a different approach.. one that puts control in the players hands WITHOUT requiring said players buy and open Cartel Packs.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Andryah

[lironBD]

You are ignoring the key point...... deliberately I might add -----> the reputation in questions is well over a year old. They are simply giving players another way to get old rep... which frankly is not uncommon in MMOs.... though most of them do it by raising rates of rep for current tokens + lower the rep rates needed to achieve rep levels. This approach is simply a different approach.. one that puts control in the players hands WITHOUT requiring said players buy and open Cartel Packs.

 

Not ignoring you at all.

It's fine.

but now that I know there will be, as current event shows, alternate way to gain rep I don't need to open lotto packs with RNG chance to drop rep item.

I'll wait for the next "slot machine".

Until now I played happily without maxed rep so what do I care to wait a year to max it for 1 item at discounted price?

[LordArtemis]

1. Increase chip price to 3000 credits.

2. increase the time the machine "roll" a win to at least 25 seconds.

3. limit the machines to 1 per SH.

4. Remove jawa scrap\junk drops from the drop table.

5. Make the cert drop ultra rare like 1:1000 rolls or something.

 

then it will be balanced.

good day.

 

1) 3000 is too high IMO. 2000 is sufficient.

2) That would be fine.

3) See no problem with that.

4) No. That is a foolish protectionistic suggestion IMO that intends to protect rarity.

5) No. Most if not all of the items are bound. Again, this is a protectionist suggestion that should be ignored.

 

Instead, this is what I think should happen.

 

1) Coins raised to 2000c per.

2) Resource payout from crew missions increased by 50 percent across the board.

3) Crew mission critical chance raised by 10 percent across the board.

4) Reshuffle button added for crew mission display.

 

And now I will be blunt......

 

1) Players that support the machine - Players that do not like the rarity of the mats, do not like the fact that the only way to get certs was through packs. You can call that lazy if you like, I call it QoL.

 

2) Players that want to nerf the machine - Players that wish to protect their overblown revenue streams by protecting rarity in mats. Same old song sung with every QoL change that reduces rarity. It is greed, not concern for the economy. And in most cases seems to be defended by deceit. You can call it sensible if you like, I call it exaggeration for personal benefit.

 

There is room for adjustment, especially with the coin price. The device should be a more effective credit sink...but the raritiy of high end crafting mats needs to end.

Edited January 17, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Andryah]

So where to begin...

I provided pictures as proof, perhaps you wanted to stand near me for 4 hours while I was rolling?

the prices for the rep items are fixed just count how many I got and see for yourself.

the fact I managed to get almost 1000 +- from each mats token is atrocious for the crew skills part of the game. period.

 

I provide the info, I state what I learned and placed pictures as findings, bioware can do whatever they wish same as I and other who thinks like me can unsub until such time the game will change to a more enjoyable way of gameplay for some of us or stay unsubbed if it stays the same.

 

It's already dumbbed down so much the fact crafting and crew skills getting further dumbbed down just mind boggling.

 

Again.. missing my key point -----> nothing presented as fact on the internet is guaranteed to be fact. Sorry, but that is the truth of the matter. Now.. had you designed and presented your experiment with an absence of confirmation bias on your part.... maybe we take your screenshots and data at face value. But when you color it the way you did, editorially, rather then let players simply review your data and draw their own conclusions... you wasted your time IMO. Plenty of players have already responded and expressed disagreement with your editorial... which by the way is normal in MMO gaming forums.

 

Note: I'm not saying you did anything sneaky, only that there is absolutely no way to tell one way or the other. Hence.. you should have stuck to the facts and let them go where they go with player discussion, rather then use it to deliberately platform your personal editorial about slot machines = evil.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Andryah

[Andryah]

1) 3000 is too high IMO. 2000 is sufficient.

2) That would be fine.

3) See no problem with that.

4) No. That is a foolish protectionistic suggestion IMO that intends to protect rarity.

5) No. Most if not all of the items are bound. Again, this is a protectionist suggestion that should be ignored.

 

Instead, this is what I think should happen.

 

1) Coins raised to 2000c per.

2) Resource payout from crew missions increased by 50 percent across the board.

3) Crew mission critical chance raised by 10 percent across the board.

4) Reshuffle button added for crew mission display.

 

There is absolutely zero evidence that any price for tokens is warranted or better then what they are currently set at.

 

Some people are trying very hard to base token prices on what they feel the "fixed floor" price should be for L11 mats. That is subjective and actually kind of hyperbolic.. being as prices on mats change in game from day to day across the board. There is no "fixed floor" price for anything in this game (until you get to a 1 credit list price). IF... IF Bioware determines through analytics that the current drop rates are not intended (in the context of server economy and health) they can simply adjust the loot table for the slots and bring it right back in line. But again, there is no evidence yet that the drop rates are not intended... only that some players don't like what it is (gee.. could say that about anything in the game really, based on forum discussions around here).

 

Where you and I disagree, like in this case, is when you position ideas that deliberately change some mechanic in the game and insist that it addresses something that actually needs fixing. It is not at all clear here at this time that anything actually needs fixing here.

 

The core issue here ----> some people do not like getting surprised, and some people do not like having to adjust to changes in they way content is provided to us in MMOs. And the issue is actually personal... personal for those that are bent about it (regardless of reason).

Edited January 17, 2015 by Andryah

[TheGreatFrosty]

So you ran a 5000 coin experiment (allegedly). Yeah, you got screen shots.. and we know those cannot be faked, right? Not saying you did, just that none of us can prove your screenshots are real.. that is all.

 

THEN... you published an editorial in the forum, using deliberate confirmation bias, to demonstrate the evil of your dropping 5000 coins into a slot. Your data does not match previous data from a good number of players posting in the forum this week, but we are supposed to ignore them and believe you?

 

Feel better now?

 

Guess what.... nothing you say, or no matter how mad you get, Bioware will not adjust drop rates based on your input. If you have a genuine concern.. then file a bug report and maybe.. maybe.. they will agree with you and make adjustments to the drop rates. Or, maybe not. See.. Bioware has all the analytics on the economy, not us. It's up to them to review that data, compare it to their planned intention, and then make adjustments over time, if needed.

 

You must feel embarrassed a lot. His findings reflect many players, including my own, with approximately 65-70% of the revenue being made back directly through selling rep items, and a similar number of purple items. I can also take screenshots, but you've got your tinfoil hat on (or there''s a simpler reason as to why you're committed to being wrong).

 

They've already said they plan to review the drop rates.

[Djiini]

Plus nobody would care even if he were lying because it would look pretty silly after they came out and said this isn't an exploit.

[TheGreatFrosty]

There is absolutely zero evidence that any price for tokens is warranted or better then what they are currently set at.

 

Some people are trying very hard to base token prices on what they feel the "fixed floor" price should be for L11 mats. That is subjective and actually kind of hyperbolic.. being as prices on mats change in game from day to day across the board. There is no "fixed floor" price for anything in this game (until you get to a 1 credit list price). IF... IF Bioware determines through analytics that the current drop rates are not intended (in the context of server economy and health) they can simply adjust the loot table for the slots and bring it right back in line. But again, there is no evidence yet that the drop rates are not intended... only that some players don't like what it is (gee.. could say that about anything in the game really, based on forum discussions around here).

 

Where you and I disagree, like in this case, is when you position ideas that deliberately change some mechanic in the game and insist that it addresses something that actually needs fixing. It is not at all clear here at this time that anything actually needs fixing here.

 

The core issue here ----> some people do not like getting surprised, and some people do not like having to adjust to changes in they way content is provided to us in MMOs. And the issue is actually personal... personal for those that are bent about it (regardless of reason).

 

How can you not get this. Who are we deliberating against?

 

The suggested price is not an arbitrary number, but one set against the cost of crafting missions. If it is not adjusted, crafting missions will never be ran again as they are more costly and entail increased risk.

 

I have to ask: is this something you want? When a new player comes onto the game and asks which of the gathering selects he should select to make money you simply say "Don't bother, it's slot machines or nothing."

[lironBD]

The core issue here ----> some people do not like getting surprised, and some people do not like having to adjust to changes in they way content is provided to us in MMOs. And the issue is actually personal... personal for those that are bent about it (regardless of reason).

 

no that's not the issue.

the issue here is until now you had to level up do you class story and get companions.

then pick up crew skills from trainer and either pay loads of cash running missions (which was tied to your level) or actually travel around the world pick up mats from nodes.

then you had to use your mats to craft items in order to level up your crafting skill.

then when you had enough level of your skill you paid for schem or Re'd one then you had to craft it over and over until u managed to learn artifact version which in the process required special mission mats.

^

this entire process took weeks upon weeks.

 

Now people can just take their fresh level 10 toon with HK\Treek\1st companion and port to their stronghold or friend's stronghold use the machine and makes some money pretty quickly while hoarding the mats tokens to craft whatever they want or just trade the mats with other people to craft for them.

This process makes the entire resource harvesting and mission running of crew skills null and void because I can harvest and run mission on 6 companions X max character slots all day long and still in 2-3 hours of single character rolling on slot machine I'll get much more mats.

and bonus part it's token based so I only need to level crafting skill I don't need any crew harvest or mission skill as I can pick up which ever mats I want.

[DarthTHC]

There is absolutely zero evidence that any price for tokens is warranted or better then what they are currently set at.

 

Are you saying FREE + ZERO TIME is a good price for artifact grade 11 mission-only materials?

[Andryah]

You must feel embarrassed a lot. His findings reflect many players, including my own, with approximately 65-70% of the revenue being made back directly through selling rep items, and a similar number of purple items. I can also take screenshots, but you've got your tinfoil hat on (or there''s a simpler reason as to why you're committed to being wrong).

 

Cute ad hominem.

 

No tin foil, and no embarrassment (sorry to ruin your day). Just an absence of mindless bowing to editorials in a game forum making declarations as to what is/is-not working as intended.

 

No my friend.. the OP created and published an extreme example to make an editorial soap box to preach from. We, as players, have known for days what the average drop rates for the slot are. The OP wants unanimous agreement that his view is the right and only view. Does not work that way. When someone tries that hard, it is prudent to not take screen shots, or conclusions derived, at face value.. that's all I am saying.

 

They've already said they plan to review the drop rates.

 

Stop distorting.

 

Reviewing drops rates =/= changing drop rates. It means exactly what it says ----> "we hear the concerns and we will review and let you know."

Edited January 17, 2015 by Andryah

[LordArtemis]

There is absolutely zero evidence that any price for tokens is warranted or better then what they are currently set at.

 

Fair enough. This is based purely on personal bias Andryah, and as always I do not mind folks that do not agree, nor would I mind if the price remained the same. You know how I feel about credit sinks.

 

Remember, I did support the removal of training costs.

 

Some people are trying very hard to base token prices on what they feel the "fixed floor" price should be for L11 mats. That is subjective and actually kind of hyperbolic.. being as prices on mats change in game from day to day across the board. There is no "fixed floor" price for anything in this game (until you get to a 1 credit list price). IF... IF Bioware determines through analytics that the current drop rates are not intended (in the context of server economy and health) they can simply adjust the loot table for the slots and bring it right back in line. But again, there is no evidence yet that the drop rates are not intended... only that some players don't like what it is (gee.. could say that about anything in the game really, based on forum discussions around here).

 

In my case I set the price based on my own personal experience, purchasing coins and selling back rep tokens. I want the process to cause me to lose money, abet not much. Setting that price at that price point would accomplish that.

 

Where you and I disagree, like in this case, is when you position ideas that deliberately change some mechanic in the game and insist that it addresses something that actually needs fixing. It is not at all clear here at this time that anything actually needs fixing here.

 

Again, fair enough. I appreciate the discourse and you could certainly be correct. I still feel the opportunity for this to represent an effective credit sink is too good to pass up. I feel that folks would gladly pay 2k per based on the rewards. I would gladly pay 500 per if it remained that way.

 

The core issue here ----> some people do not like getting surprised, and some people do not like having to adjust to changes in they way content is provided to us in MMOs. And the issue is actually personal... personal for those that are bent about it (regardless of reason).

 

A fair point I think. Quite a few folks bent on both sides of the fence. And likely most motivated by personal bias.

[Andryah]

Are you saying FREE + ZERO TIME is a good price for artifact grade 11 mission-only materials?

 

Not at all.

 

What is your point?

 

In my view.. if drop rates are determined to be wrong on some of the slot items (like Purple Jawa Junk), then modify the loot table.

 

Changing the token cost messes with all items in the loot table, not just junk that some people feel is dropping too freely.

[LordArtemis]

They've already said they plan to review the drop rates.

 

To be fair, they meant monitor, not review. They did not express any intent to change anything. That is more wishful thinking than anything else. They expressed an intent to make changes if needed.

They will MONITOR the situation to see if changes are needed or warranted. So they could very easily do nothing.

 

With that being said, we do hear the concern from many of you around the effects of the Jawa Junk’s drop rate on the economy. We are going to take a look at it and make changes accordingly. I will let you know once I know more. In the meantime, have fun!

 

I would remind folks that they said the EXACT SAME THING with respect to respawn rates in Rishi and Yavin and unified comms. And did nothing.

 

It is possible they will leave this as is.

Edited January 17, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Djiini]

To be fair, monitor, not review. They did not express any intent to change anything. That is more wishful thinking than anything else.

They will MONITOR the situation to see if changes are needed or warranted. So they could very easily do nothing.

 

I would remind folks that they said the EXACT SAME THING with respect to respawn rates in Rishi and Yavin and unified comms. And did nothing.

 

It is possible they will leave this as is.

 

And then people might have to actually adapt to the new market!

 

AAA! THE HORROR!

[Andryah]

Again, fair enough. I appreciate the discourse and you could certainly be correct. I still feel the opportunity for this to represent an effective credit sink is too good to pass up. I feel that folks would gladly pay 2k per based on the rewards. I would gladly pay 500 per if it remained that way.

 

I understand. But looking at it pragmatically...

 

right now.. there is only one token for slots, right? It's the same token they used for the Hutt casino event, right? That keeps it simple and it makes the coins good for any active playable slot in game at any time.

 

IF... IF.. Bioware determines that these slots are too loose... then they will very likely do what real casinos do ----> tighten the odds a bit to get it where it needs to be.. IF it actually needs any adjustment at all.

 

And as I have stated numerous times.. I don't craft and I don't play the materials market in the GTN. So I have no skin in this one way or the other. I simply see this as a positive progression by Bioware to give players more choices and control over how a player acquires things they want to acquire. That is a good thing, IMO. Sure.. the market and the players will have to adjust.. and will adjust... so this whole thing is just the latest hate-fest opportunity for people that love to take a rake to Bioware over anything and everything.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Andryah

[lironBD]

And then people might have to actually adapt to the new market!

 

AAA! THE HORROR!

 

it was never about the market or money.

there is nothing worth paying for in the game anyway.

 

It is about crew skills being useless due to this machine.

[Djiini]

it was never about the market or money.

there is nothing worth paying for in the game anyway.

 

It is about crew skills being useless due to this machine.

 

It's interesting to me that nobody started whining about that until after the dust settled from the money whining, then, to me.

 

I personally still enjoy Archaeology, Slicing and Gathering for Flashpoints....

[Jeweledleah]

Are you saying FREE + ZERO TIME is a good price for artifact grade 11 mission-only materials?

 

I had to reread this sentence several times to make sure I'm understanding it correctly. but no it still sounds the same.

 

are you claiming that slot machines are free and take zero time to get materials out of?

[LordArtemis]

I understand. But looking at it pragmatically...

 

right now.. there is only one token for slots, right? It's the same token they used for the Hutt casino event, right? That keeps it simple and it makes the coins good for any active playable slot in game at any time.

 

IF... IF.. Bioware determines that these slots are too loose... then they will very likely do what real casinos do ----> tighten the odds a bit to get it where it needs to be.. IF it actually needs any adjustment at all.

 

I would really rather they do not tighten the odds. The reason I say this is twofold.

 

First, I like the odds as they are...the win rate makes it much more fun than the original machine. Not only that, I would like something that puts downward pressure on resource costs.

Second, I am afraid that reducing the win rates would reduce the amount of use, which would have an effect that is opposite what I am trying for.

 

Let me put it to you this way....IF they are going to make changes, I would rather see the changes I suggested than to see an adjustment of win rates or removal of payment for rep items, or even the removal of jawa junk from the drop tables.

 

Those kind of changes would likely diminish the very thing that makes the machine attractive and addictive.

Edited January 17, 2015 by LordArtemis

[LordArtemis]

it was never about the market or money.

there is nothing worth paying for in the game anyway.

 

It is about crew skills being useless due to this machine.

 

If that is the case, why not simply improve crew mission returns IronBD as I have suggested?

[Andryah]

it was never about the market or money.

there is nothing worth paying for in the game anyway.

 

It is about crew skills being useless due to this machine.

 

Really? So you can and will play those slots 7/24, ignoring everything else in the game?

 

They give you another route to obtain materials, if you wish. No more, no less.

 

Most players that want junk for mats -------> will play everything open to them to gain materials. Player choice = player gets to decide which route(s) they want to use for materials.

 

You know what the self-limiting variables are here??

 

1) time and boredom limits... and MMO players, broadly speaking, get bored really easy.

2) Junk supply.. it is what it is.. and once the dumping spike from pre-3.0 hoarding flushes from the server economies, we will be able to see more clearly what slots contribute and what they don't.

3) the best players, who need/want materials, will use multiple methods available to them, depending on their mood and what they actually want to spend they game time on.

[Jeweledleah]

It's interesting to me that nobody started whining about that until after the dust settled from the money whining, then, to me.

 

I personally still enjoy Archaeology, Slicing and Gathering for Flashpoints....

 

I enjoy all my crewskills still as well.

 

I still gather as I quest. I still send out companions on missions, just not as diligently and not as many of them. I most certainly still craft.

 

those 192 sets for companions are ugly, so I use them only sporadically, mostly on Blizz, Bowdar and the like. still need augmentation components, still need fluxes and processors etc. new dyes and crystals are kinda gorgeous and now I can craft more of them and not worry so much about changing my mind about dye.

 

yeah, I think its about the credits. I think its about having to adjust to a changing market.

[LordArtemis]

Really? So you can and will play those slots 7/24, ignoring everything else in the game?

 

They give you another route to obtain materials, if you wish. No more, no less.

 

Most players that want junk for mats -------> will play everything open to them to gain materials. Player choice = player gets to decide which route(s) they want to use for materials.

 

You know what the self-limiting variables are here??

 

1) time and boredom limits... and MMO players, broadly speaking, get bored really easy.

2) Junk supply.. it is what it is.. and once the dumping spike from pre-3.0 hoarding flushes from the server economies, we will be able to see more clearly what slots contribute and what they don't.

3) the best players, who need/want materials, will use multiple methods available to them, depending on their mood and what they actually want to spend they game time on.

 

Yes, for blues and purples this is the only "hands on" way to get them. Before GTN purchase or missions was the only way. Now you have a third way.

 

It still takes time. Folks will still not want to spend the time and purchase mats instead. You can easily burn through a third of a stack of purples on one crafting session....and it would likely take hours to get the proper amount of purples so folks could craft without ever having a need to purchase them or run crew missions.

 

And that for most is just not feasible IMO. Actually laziness is a good thing here....most folks will be lazy enough to still buy the mats.

 

Also remember that for green mats resource gathering is still the best method to maximize amount and return, and crew missions can be run while you are logged out or engaged in other activities....two places the machine falls short.

Edited January 17, 2015 by LordArtemis