The Contraband Slot Machine

[Andryah]

He's just a messenger though. Not shure why he's suddenly become a scapegoat.

 

Never heard of the term "cannon fodder" ? He is paid to work the front lines and get shot at.

 

As "the messenger" I get that PR, Marketing, and Spin are part of doing business. But the handling of this slot machine, and the VERY misleading and dishonest gold posts from Eric surrounding it rest with... HIM. Why? Because he is the Community Manager for the game.

 

I know he can take the heat generally... but I'm uncertain if he survives this one... at least in the eyes of players.

 

Seeing as the gold posts went MIA today on this.... I have created a thread in the Bug Report forum to see if we can flush Tait or Eric out into the open to comment and clarify intentions here. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=792008

 

I know they are not ignoring the forum, and are probably huddled in Austin trying to figure out how to sort this mess of vomit out, but it sure feels like they left the country... considering almost all threads in general forum today are discussing the same exact topic. I don't recall seeing the forum like this since spring of 2012 when most of the 200+ servers were going dormant due to low populations.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Andryah

[achwas]

I can get behind the idea that this is such a 'vivid' example of a bait and switch that it would engender outrage, thus kicking things up a notch on the forums.

 

Oh well obviously you quite obviously love being lied to straight to the face. Your personal call, but I really don't think most people would take this lying down.

 

Politicians resign over this degree of incompetence....

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Everyone knows interns should only be allowed to redo the engine, over the weekend, while drunk and blind folded.

 

In that case I volunteer!

[Reno_Tarshil]

Never heard of the term "cannon fodder" ?

 

As "the messenger" I get that PR, Marketing, and Spin are part of doing business. But the handling of this slot machine, and the VERY misleading and dishonest gold posts from Eric surrounding it rest with... HIM. Why? Because he is the Community Manager for the game.

 

I know he can take the heat... but I'm uncertain if he survives this one... at least in the eyes of players.

 

He posts what he is told and allowed to post and only when they have something to post. It's quite possible he isn't allowed to post anything yet.

 

Give it a few days. They might be testing something or preparing their words. No need to shoot the messenger because we are all upset. (Yes I am upset about this too.)

[Max_Killjoy]

Never heard of the term "cannon fodder" ? He is paid to work the front lines and get shot at.

 

As "the messenger" I get that PR, Marketing, and Spin are part of doing business. But the handling of this slot machine, and the VERY misleading and dishonest gold posts from Eric surrounding it rest with... HIM. Why? Because he is the Community Manager for the game.

 

I know he can take the heat generally... but I'm uncertain if he survives this one... at least in the eyes of players.

 

Here's the thing -- I'm not calling Eric a liar. What I am saying is that even if he was telling the truth as far as he knew it, that puts him so far outside the loop on the truth that what he says no longer has any weight.

[achwas]

Never heard of the term "cannon fodder" ? He is paid to work the front lines and get shot at.

 

As "the messenger" I get that PR, Marketing, and Spin are part of doing business. But the handling of this slot machine, and the VERY misleading and dishonest gold posts from Eric surrounding it rest with... HIM. Why? Because he is the Community Manager for the game.

 

I know he can take the heat generally... but I'm uncertain if he survives this one... at least in the eyes of players.

His problem is, that he requires some trust from the player-base. Which right now is obviously gone, which means he could immediately resign since only a foolish few will in the future believe something he claims . Perhaps a job in the understaffed Quality Assurance department for the poor soul ?

Edited January 22, 2015 by achwas
corrected spelling

[Andryah]

He posts what he is told and allowed to post and only when they have something to post. It's quite possible he isn't allowed to post anything yet.

 

I agree that he is largely told what the message needs to be, but he as Community Manager surely does have some influence over the final message agreed to. If he does not, he is a bad Community Manager.

 

Give it a few days. They might be testing something or preparing their words. No need to shoot the messenger because we are all upset. (Yes I am upset about this too.)

 

He does not have a few days to come into the forum and comment. he as some time for a fix, but if he stone walls any comment until then... people are just going to get more worked up about this. It's gone beyond surface rage over the severity of the nerf IMO...... they now appear to be missing in action in the forum today, except to try to delete posts that quote drop rates. They know the drop rates, everyone does. Time to comment as to "working as intended" or "yeah, we need to fix this... please bear with us for a few days until we fix it.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Andryah

[Andryah]

His problem is, that he requires some trust from the player-base. Which right now is obviously gone...

 

Exactly.

[Max_Killjoy]

I agree that he is largely told what the message needs to be, but he as Community Manager surely does have some influence over the final message agreed to. If he does not, he is a bad Community Manager.

 

 

 

He does not have a few days to come into the forum and comment. he as some time for a fix, but if he stone walls any comment until then... people are just going to get more worked up about this. It's gone beyond surface rage over the severity of the nerf IMO...... they now appear to be missing in action in the forum today, except to try to delete posts that quote drop rates. They know the drop rates, everyone does. Time to comment as to "working as intended" or "yeah, we need to fix this... please bear with us for a few days until we fix it.

 

Careful, even talking about the deleting of the posts that list the drop rates can lead to a warning...

[Andryah]

Here's the thing -- I'm not calling Eric a liar. What I am saying is that even if he was telling the truth as far as he knew it, that puts him so far outside the loop on the truth that what he says no longer has any weight.

 

No disagreement here.

 

Like I said, I generally cut dev teams a lot of slack. But the rope is not infinite... and it's time to give a good firm tug on the rope.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Andryah

[WastedLight]

Ok sir...I will try and explain it to you.....As of friday, they said the machine were working as intended and not an exploit, but that they were going to keep an eye on jawa junk (aka lvl 11 mats..to them at least). And so upon hearing this ,straight from Bio/EA's mouth, people that had not got the item as of yet for fear of it being bugged or exploited finally went out and spent either in-game credits or real life cash trying to get this item. Thus probably making this one pack SWtOR's best selling item as of yet. Now, flash forward to today and not only did they nerf the jawa junk drop, but everything else into oblivion , thus wasting people's time and real money.

 

Thus giving a rather vivid example of "bait and switch"..... So, yeah they have a right to be angry.

 

It's definitely a bait and switch tactic. Even if it was unintended, that's what they've done. It's wrong and I understand why people are upset. I never even come onto the forums, yet here I am. The people who really lose out are those who purchase cartel coins. Which seems like a lot of us. I wonder how much they made over the last week in sales.....

[Pietrastor]

No disagreement here.

 

Like I said, I generally cut dev teams a lot of slack. But the rope is not infinite... and it's time to give a good firm tug on the rope.

If it was just Jawa mats nerfed, there would still be rage (if the nerf was as it happened, essentially giving you 0 Jawa scraps) but at least with Cartel Certificates the machine would still be worth something. But now lol?

[WastedLight]

If it was just Jawa mats nerfed, there would still be rage (if the nerf was as it happened, essentially giving you 0 Jawa scraps) but at least with Cartel Certificates the machine would still be worth something. But now lol?

 

Agreed. They could have just nerfed the Jawa Junk only and it would have been fine and in fact the patch notes only mention Jawa Junk rate getting a hit. Nothing else is mentioned there. Even that didn't need to be nerfed to the point of receiving only 4 in the over 1400 spins I made today....

Edited January 22, 2015 by WastedLight

[YesterdaysRepeat]

The nerf is absolute ********. I bought cartel packs in an attempt to get the slot machine, on the understanding that it would work as it did on release. For them to nerf it after the fact, when it's something that people are paying -actual- money for, is absolutely wrong. I find it -really- hard to believe that this wasn't something they did on purpose, either, with how long it went un-nerfed.

 

If this was something outside of the game, it would warrent a lawsuit. Take, for instance, buying a house. You see the house, are told it's x amount for this house, as the house currently appears. You pay the money for the house. Then you are suddenly told "Oh, the money you just paid is actually for this *******r house over here". That's not legal, and shouldn't be acceptable in the game, either.

[achwas]

Agreed. They could have just nerfed the Jawa Junk only and it would have been fine and in fact the patch notes only mention Jawa Junk rate getting a hit. Nothing else is mentioned there. Even that didn't need to be nerfed to the point of receiving only 4 in the over 1400 spins I made today....

 

Gosh they might simply have increased of the grade 11 Artifact level items by some factor (like they did for the Diplomacy and Slicing drops anyway). And/or increased the time between clicks on the machine.... or made the machine impossible to use with macros...

Oh wait, too simple for the Nerfbat. Let's redact one's own statement and lose any trust the community has.

[Neglience]

The nerf is absolute ********. I bought cartel packs in an attempt to get the slot machine, on the understanding that it would work as it did on release. For them to nerf it after the fact, when it's something that people are paying -actual- money for, is absolutely wrong. I find it -really- hard to believe that this wasn't something they did on purpose, either, with how long it went un-nerfed.

 

If this was something outside of the game, it would warrent a lawsuit. Take, for instance, buying a house. You see the house, are told it's x amount for this house, as the house currently appears. You pay the money for the house. Then you are suddenly told "Oh, the money you just paid is actually for this *******r house over here". That's not legal, and shouldn't be acceptable in the game, either.

 

They stated shortly after the release of the machine they might change it. Taking into consideration the impact the machine made, it was pretty obvious that it gets nerfed.

 

However, this machine should have never been release in the original version, yes. If they would have just released this version, there would not be any QQ at all (well at least not so much ) . They handed you guys a easy mode semi-afk farming money maker and now everyone expects that the machine has to do exactly that (a bit nerfed of course, but only a bit...)

Edited January 22, 2015 by Neglience

[WastedLight]

The nerf is absolute ********. I bought cartel packs in an attempt to get the slot machine, on the understanding that it would work as it did on release. For them to nerf it after the fact, when it's something that people are paying -actual- money for, is absolutely wrong. I find it -really- hard to believe that this wasn't something they did on purpose, either, with how long it went un-nerfed.

 

If this was something outside of the game, it would warrent a lawsuit. Take, for instance, buying a house. You see the house, are told it's x amount for this house, as the house currently appears. You pay the money for the house. Then you are suddenly told "Oh, the money you just paid is actually for this *******r house over here". That's not legal, and shouldn't be acceptable in the game, either.

 

Agreed. It is indeed something that would warrant a lawsuit outside the game. One can however dispute with your bank or credit card issuer and try to initiate a chargeback for goods not received as advertised. Might be a hard fight, but if people are really wanting their money back I'd suggest screenshotting what you need to for evidence and filing a claim. It is real money we are are discussing, game or not.

[Lucyfer_Infinity]

However, this machine should have never been release in the original version, yes. If they would have just released this version, there would not be any QQ at all (well at least not so much ) .

 

I agree there would be no QQ if they would have released it in current version. They also wouldn't get a huge cash injection from all the people trying to get it, as most wouldn't care about the useless thing.

Instead they choose to bait us with amazing item and when they got our cash, switch the item for something worthless. Therefore they get well deserved QQ and rage.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Lucyfer_Infinity

[WastedLight]

I agree there would be no QQ if they would have released it in current version. They also wouldn't get a huge cash injection from all the people trying to get it, as most wouldn't care about the useless thing.

Instead they choose to scam us, bait us with amazing item and when they got our cash, switch the item for something worthless. Therefore they get well deserved QQ and rage.

 

Exactly. We are just "working as intended" after being completely ripped off.

[ThunderVamp]

I pulled all of my payment methods off my account tonight.

 

So many ways to handle this.

1. Cut back the drop rate a little to keep it in line with crew missions
   
2. Limit the number of coins you could play per day
   
3. Increase the cost of mats from the Jawa vendors
   

 

And they do THIS? They completely nuke it? Increase the cost per pull by 50%, increase the fail rate entirely to 45% and make all but rep items pretty much ultra-rare?

 

I'd like to think this was a mistake, but I don't believe that, because that, coupled with the complete fails of 3.0 and poorly handled management of the game since then (holidays, lack of responses, lack of bug fixes) would indicate a level of incompetence so extreme it doesn't even bear thinking about.

 

I spent the last few days playing 100K worth of chips a day. Nothing excessive. I used what I got for mats to craft gear for my alts, something I normally don't bother because the cost of purple mats is always so high.

 

Yes, I know, I could run crew missions and get the mats myself!

 

I want to level my alts, you know, when I have time to do so, not a month down the road of sending comps out on missions over and over and over and over and over and over and over... because the return rate sucks.

 

"Do it on your alts, too!"

 

Yeah, I want to do an alt dance of logging in, sending out comps, assigning them all the same crew skills, so I can send them out, logging out and into another toon, repeat over and over. Sure.

 

And people say sitting in front of the slot machine isn't playing the game??

 

But that's all irrelevant and I just know people will come in here to tell me "You're doing it wrong! lrn2play noob!"

 

Anyway, so I spent the last few days actually crafting gear for my alts because I could do so reasonably. I still actually spent money on mats on the GTN for greens (although 2K CPU when sorting by lowest price per unit for greens? ***??)

 

I loved it. I was finally bothering to craft items again, to go to the trainers for new schems. It was great.

 

Now it's gone because it wasn't just nerfed, it was eradicated from high orbit. E.L.E., baby.

 

Because dealing with the mats being a little too accessible, well, that was just too much to deal with reasonably, even with the suggestions above or those of others. No, let's kill it entirely.

 

And you know what will happen, right? They'll "fix" it in time for the next cartel pack release with a new slot in it. About a week before then, this one will get "fixed." And people will extoll the virtues of it again. And sales will go up when the new one comes out. Then watch out.

 

So, I can't in good faith give them more money. No way, no how. Screw me once and all that.

 

I hope I'm wrong. I hope we finally see a yellow name say "Yeah guys, we botched it. Hang on while we get that fixed." and have them do it in a reasonable time. But I'm not gonna hold my breath, either. These are the same people who said:

With that being said, we do hear the concern from many of you around the effects of the Jawa Junk’s drop rate on the economy. We are going to take a look at it and make changes accordingly.

Jawa Junk. No other drops mentioned, no Certs mentioned. And they gave us what we have today. Changed accordingly? Apparently meant "removed what I mentioned and anything else worthwhile almost entirely".

 

So I removed all methods of payment. Let them hear that concern. I encourage others to do the same.

[YesterdaysRepeat]

They stated shortly after the release of the machine they might change it. Taking into consideration the impact the machine made, it was pretty obvious that it gets nerfed.

 

However, this machine should have never been release in the original version, yes. If they would have just released this version, there would not be any QQ at all (well at least not so much ) . They handed you guys a easy mode semi-afk farming money maker and now everyone expects that the machine has to do exactly that (a bit nerfed of course, but only a bit...)

 

Eric also stated it was working as intended, and wasn't an exploit. So either he has litterally no idea what he's talking about, and should just be ignored from this point foreward, or it was a total bait and switch tactic to get people to buy cartel packs. For some, weird, strange reason, I put greater weight on it being bait and switch as a way for ea/bioware to get more money.

[Neglience]

I pulled all of my payment methods off my account tonight.

 

So many ways to handle this.

1. Cut back the drop rate a little to keep it in line with crew missions
   
2. Limit the number of coins you could play per day
   
3. Increase the cost of mats from the Jawa vendors
   

 

 

Everything above 1% is not in line with crew missions.

 

A player could create 1200 grade 11 purple mats within 10 Hours. With crew missions this takes weeks.

 

After 50% drop reduction: 600 grade 11 purple mats within 10 hours. This will probably still take weeks with crew missions.

 

After 75% drop reduction: 300 grade 11 purple mats within 10 hours. This can be done in a week with luck and a lot of maxed out alts which takes month to accomplish.

 

and so on.

 

300 Grade 11 mats ( lets take augments) will give you 150 augments if you get zero crits. So even at a 75% reduced drop chance you can fully augment nealry 9 chars within 10 hours of using the slot machine.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Neglience

[picee]

so now u have nerfed this to high hell the poeple that held off and waited to buy packs until they heard word as to it working as intended or it being broken will they be intitled to a full refund ???

[ThunderVamp]

Everything above 1% is not in line with crew missions.

 

A player could create 1200 grade 11 purple mats within 10 Hours. With crew missions this takes weeks.

 

After 50% drop reduction: 600 grade 11 purple mats within 10 hours. This will probably still take weeks with crew missions.

 

After 75% drop reduction: 300 grade 11 purple mats within 10 hours. This can be done in a week with luck and a lot of maxed out alts which takes month to accomplish.

 

and so on.

 

300 Grade 11 mats ( lets take augments) will give you 150 augments if you get zero crits. So even at a 75% reduced drop chance you can fully augment nealry 9 chars within 10 hours of using the slot machine.

 

Guess it was too long for you to read it all.

Because dealing with the mats being a little too accessible, well, that was just too much to deal with reasonably, even with the suggestions above or those of others. No, let's kill it entirely.

[Icycola]

I pulled all of my payment methods off my account tonight. ....So I removed all methods of payment. Let them hear that concern. I encourage others to do the same.

 

Great idea that I've heard several times. Done.