The Contraband Slot Machine

[Infernixx]

Personally, I'm hoping they see the near-universal distaste that these changes have invoked and they'll tweak the drop rate back up from the depths of ridiculousness.

 

But, come on. Do we really need to play the 'from one extreme to the other' game? Is it really 'that' hard to find a happy median?

[SebastiaanZ]

For once you make an item everybody likes on the CM, the Contraband Slot Machine ... and a patch later you *********** nerf it. ***? Drop rates on purple mats were already ridiculously low, and those people who could run them all the time get the best again, because they whine the hardest.

 

So community, can we now please start whining about the slot machines being nerved? Apparently it works with Bioware. Those who whine the most, get their wish apparently.

 

Good job Bioware.

 

A disappointed subscriber

Edited January 21, 2015 by SebastiaanZ

[LuxDragon]

You want feedback BioWare? Here it is:

 

Dumbest "fix" ever.

 

A small group of rich people are crying so you make it so a large group of poor players can't get crap now. Well done. 99 rolls, and all I "win" is useless rep to get back a fraction of the money I spent. And NOTHING else. No mats, no walker, nothing.

[Danw]

Lets face it the slot machine allowed people to augment without Slicing.

 

It [Jawa Junk] had to go, it was allowing an entire profession to be bypassed.

 

Good riddance.

 

Your looking at the wrong thing, what they needed to do was remove grade 11 blue and purple items from the jawas, not change the slot machine.

[BuriDogshin]

As someone who has spent thousands on this game, you have lost my trust. I will no longer, outside of my subscription fee, be supporting this game financially through the Cartel Market.

 

TL;DR - You lost my trust and any future income from me outside of subbing by being very deceptive about these slot machines within 7 days of them being available in your Acolyte's Shadow packs.

This, except I have also cancelled the automatic renewal of my subscription. Maybe they'll notice if lots of people do that.

 

Eh, I need to get out more anyway. And it's not like the bug-ridden L60 ops are actually all that fun.

Edited January 21, 2015 by BuriDogshin

[DarthDymond]

Personally, I'm hoping they see the near-universal distaste that these changes have invoked and they'll tweak the drop rate back up from the depths of ridiculousness.

 

But, come on. Do we really need to play the 'from one extreme to the other' game? Is it really 'that' hard to find a happy median?

Honestly, if they do another tweak on these rates, I'm pretty sure for every one person who is mollified you'll have two or three who get more pissed off. ("You owe me [X] number of certs because I spent a thousand coins while the rate was still lower!" "I sold my machine super-cheap because you made the rewards suck, you just screwed me by making them desirable again!" "Oh great, BW, way to cave to whining minority that wanted the rates higher!" "What is this amateur hour BS, you're changing it again?!?!")

[interus]

oops i made my own thread for this and didn't see this one.

anyhow,

99 coins = 1 scavenged scrap

posted thread

99 coins = cartel cert and a pile of rep tokens im already at legend with.

after reading some other stats im not even going to bother testing out the new drop rate im just done with the slot machine, They can stuff the new mount that probably looks like all the other walkers (which I all ready have), What a stupid thing to nerf when this game still has bugs that have existed since launch, THIS right here, and other stuff like it is exactly why so many "founders" and others have left this game, the only reason i stay is im a huge Star Wars nerd, but i don't blame the ones that have. being someone who also plays Sims 3 another of EA's babys which they have now already moved on to sims 4 yet is still loaded with huge bugs that have existed since launch and which differ based on what kind of pc it's loaded on (i've had it installed on 4 diferent pc over the years and the bugs change it's actually amusing), i can only assume it's EA's policy to ignore that stuff and only deal with things that they choose. At any rate Im just really disappointed that they chose to listen to the ************ matt hoarders.

[Foambreaker]

Your looking at the wrong thing, what they needed to do was remove grade 11 blue and purple items from the jawas, not change the slot machine.

 

How could I not see that.

 

Not only could they "fix" the problem, they could screw over players who earn a reasonable number in Conquest each week.

 

Such a missed chance, a nerf and a screwing in one change

Edited January 21, 2015 by Foambreaker

[DjSnazzyduds]

Lol the irony. Players complain to nerf, complainers are whiners. Nerf happens. Players who weren't complaining before are now complaining, now turned whiners.

 

In the end someone loses, such is the way of the MMO. You had your win, now you're losing, deal. *mlg shades*

Edited January 21, 2015 by DjSnazzyduds

[achwas]

This, except I have also cancelled the automatic renewal of my subscription. Maybe they'll notice if lots of people do that.

 

Eh, I need to get out more anyway. And it's not like the bug-ridden L60 ops are actually all that fun.

 

Not the worst of ideas. One can live off game cards quite well, and overall, no much fun playing a game with broken rules and buggy content.

Edited January 21, 2015 by achwas
edited spelling

[Krixten]

Hmmmm.... I'm trying to figure out why the slot machines are completely controlled by Game Devs and not the player owner? I say, let the owner set the payouts percentage, and jackpot amounts, let the owner be responsible for the machines internal bank, and have the machine have a monthly activation fee that has to be paid! If the machines bank runs out, it turns off. If the owner tightens up the payouts too much, his casino will be a ghost town! Let there be competition within the communities! This would allow the Owner a chance to make a profit and the gambler, PLUS the Devs make a profit. All credit based, this jawa junk is crazy! Who wants to pay a slot machine to get a handful of junk! LOL!!! There's going to be two types of owners, the ones that want to be lucrative casino owners and others that just want a cool little trinket in their stronghold!

[Foambreaker]

For once you make an item everybody likes on the CM, the Contraband Slot Machine ... and a patch later you *********** nerf it. ***? Drop rates on purple mats were already ridiculously low, and those people who could run them all the time get the best again, because they whine the hardest.

 

So community, can we now please start whining about the slot machines being nerved? Apparently it works with Bioware. Those who whine the most, get their wish apparently.

 

Good job Bioware.

 

A disappointed subscriber

 

Really, you never thought a cartel item that replaces Slicing and Underworld Trading wasn't just possibly too good to be true?

[Gazza_DJ]

It was definitely worth you posting another thread on this. It's not like there are many other threads you could add your opinion to.

[Neglience]

Really, you never thought a cartel item that replaces Slicing and Underworld Trading wasn't just possibly too good to be true?

 

your forgot archaeology and all the other crew skills

Edited January 21, 2015 by Neglience

[DjSnazzyduds]

It was definitely worth you posting another thread on this. It's not like there are many other threads you could add your opinion to.

 

But how else will his voice be heard!? THINK OF THE JAWAS!

[interus]

For once you make an item everybody likes on the CM, the Contraband Slot Machine ... and a patch later you *********** nerf it. ***? Drop rates on purple mats were already ridiculously low, and those people who could run them all the time get the best again, because they whine the hardest.

 

So community, can we now please start whining about the slot machines being nerved? Apparently it works with Bioware. Those who whine the most, get their wish apparently.

 

Good job Bioware.

 

A disappointed subscriber

 

WELL Said!!!!!!!! another disappointed subscriber

[Krixten]

Hmmmm.... I'm trying to figure out why the slot machines are completely controlled by Game Devs and not the player owner? I say, let the owner set the payouts percentage, and jackpot amounts, let the owner be responsible for the machines internal bank, and have the machine have a monthly activation fee that has to be paid! If the machines bank runs out, it turns off. If the owner tightens up the payouts too much, his casino will be a ghost town! Let there be competition within the communities! This would allow the Owner a chance to make a profit and the gambler, PLUS the Devs make a profit. All credit based, this jawa junk is crazy! Who wants to pay a slot machine to get a handful of junk! LOL!!! There's going to be two types of owners, the ones that want to be lucrative casino owners and others that just want a cool little trinket in their stronghold!

[Neglience]

WELL Said!!!!!!!! another disappointed subscriber

 

I did not like it. In fact it was one of the dumpest things i have seen added to an MMO.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Neglience

[Lyshar]

To fix this they need to undo what they did first.

Then they need to take time to make interesting stuff to put in.

Then update it seriously and TEST it.

 

Possible fixing loot...

 

Weapons & Armors:

Several sets, set pieces all having the same chance to drop.

Some legacy? Well, maybe one while 3 or 4 other sets are collectible & tradable.

Unique looks, could be based slightly on embargoed old pack sets (Contraband).

 

Decorations:

You took away the certificates, main use for those for me at least were decorations.

Decorations could be a nice incentive to play slots.

 

Mindlessly nerfing like happened anyone can predict this fallout from.

[SebastiaanZ]

THANKS FOR SCREWING US OVER ERIC!

 

These changes are ridiculous. You need to reverse them ASAP.

 

I am fine with a reduced drop rate, but 0,01% (and I know its true) is ridiculous. And I feel the green and blue vendor junk has been reduced as well, but they didnt bother to tell us that,

[BuriDogshin]

WELL Said!!!!!!!! another disappointed subscriber

Make yourself an ex-subscriber, like I just did, and maybe BioWare will care.

But maybe not, in which case I get 3 more runs with my raid group before I go preferred.

Edited January 21, 2015 by BuriDogshin

[EnkiduNineEight]

I keep throwing posts into the thread to offer up a helpful suggestion as opposed to just complaining about the change.

 

First, please refer to this thread:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=791558

 

I'm editing his post to only list the relevant/areas I am commenting on.

 

Hey folks,

 

• There have been adjustments made to the Contraband Slot Machine (more on this in a second)
  

Let’s talk about the changes coming to the Contraband Slot Machine. When we were going into 3.0.2, we wanted to make Grade 11 materials more accessible to more players than they were at the time. As you know, we simultaneously put in the Contraband Slot Machine, which afforded you a fairly good chance to get Jawa Junk and other Jawa vendor scrap parts. This had two effects:

• It had the risk of taking the Grade 11 material costs in the economy, in the long term, to a price below where we would like
  
• It created a situation where it could be more profitable to completely ignore crew skills by use of the Slot Machine
  

With those in mind, we decided to make the following changes, which will be live tomorrow:

• The drop rate on all Jawa scraps, has been greatly reduced
  
• The drop rate on Contraband Reputation items, has been increased
  
• To insure that the Slot Machine is still an awesome item to strive for, we have added a faction specific walker mount as a very rare drop
  
• Lastly, we have increased the cost of each Slot Machine coin from 500 to 750 credits. It was always our intent that the coin cost would increase over time as we add more Slot Machines that accept the coin
  

Thanks everyone!

 

-eric

 

So, we can see that they did recognize that the slot machines had too great of a 'correcting' affect on the rate of materials acquisition and shifted things too far in the opposite direction. They state as well that the intent of having the materials drop from the slot was intentional as a price pressure on the current markets as they were higher than they wanted to see.

 

They were looking for a fun way to exert a market pressure downwards on pricing for the current top tier materials and items produced with them, but one that was making things accessible, not 'rock bottom'.

 

This is a noble goal and I appaud them for attempting to come up with a system that provides these two things.

 

Agree or not, BioWare had the numbers and they showed that the slot machine was too generous and so a correction was in order.

 

It is my contention that the correction was made without adequate testing and fast tracked to production and they ended up going significantly too far in the opposite direction.

 

Given that the materials were intended to come from slots, and in a quantity great enough to exert a negative market pressure on pricing (eg making them available to players in greater quantities), the current rate of return is not going to meet their stated design goals. I think this is self evident.

 

My own hypothesis is that someone mixed up doing things in a three place decimal system (0.001 to 1.000) and applied percentages instead to the same, resulting in some seriously off-balanced numbers and results that are, just as when they were too generous, clearly not intended.

 

Using the new Walker for example. I myself had championed creating a jackpt that was about as frequent as the Kingpin Rancor jackpot. When I stated as much I would use the number .001. As a decimal representation this means 0.1%, or one in one thousand attempts. What was implemented appears to have been 0.001% which equates to one in one hundred thousand attempts. This is a significant difference.

 

likewise the percentages were adjusted downwards for materials drops in a like manner (cartel certs too) and now the machines are completely incapable of stating their initial goal of:

 

When we were going into 3.0.2, we wanted to make Grade 11 materials more accessible to more players than they were at the time.

 

I believe we can all agree that the present approximate drop rate of 0.1%, or roughly the same odds of winning a Kingpin Rancor in the Nightlife event, is completely incapable of meeting the stated goal of making these materials more accessible.

 

Having a Jawa Junk drop one time out of every 1000 spins will do very little to make these more accessible, even at the returned credits from selling reputation items back rates, the cost per single junk, to the player, far exceeds its previous cost on the GTN and it is many multiples more than the average price when using trade skills/gathering missions.

 

I suggest that you look at your percentages/decimals and figure out where you went wrong, and re-adjust them to a more reasonable rate where the Walker mount is not 100 times more rare than the kingpin Rancor and where the rate of purple drops is such that the credit cost for obtaining them through the slot machine is equivalent to about 50% to 100% higher than the cost for obtaining the materials through a gathering mission.

 

This will serve your expressed purposes.

 

Crew skills will remain the choice of crafters for gathering a volume of materials over time for the lowest price. They can use this then to craft items for the markets. Their crew skills are not rendered obsolete by the slot machine.

 

Slot Machines will provide a rich enough payout that they will provide an increase in available materials for the marketplace but at a cost that is higher than the best/cheapest method. This makes these items available to players in a greater quantity but not at a rate that obviates gathering missions. The cost is higher because of convenience and reliability coupled with speed. Most of these materials then would be used for 'personal use' as opposed to producing products for the market, but enough can be converted to market goods that will exert the price pressures you stated you desired simply by increasing supply.

 

I also, again, highly suggest a swift response to the community on the issue. I think it is in the best interest of BioWare and the Community to hear at least that you are aware of the 180 degree turn that was taken and whether or not this is truly the intention made.

 

I believe you will make a strong, positive, impression on the community if you were to take plans such as mine listed above, and find a more happy median between the slots of yesterday(1/20) and the slots of today (1/21).

 

I appreciate your time.

Edited January 21, 2015 by EnkiduNineEight

[Ferretfur]

Well, the latest patch has destroyed any benefit from the Slot Machine.

 

The drop rate for jawa scrap is now way, way to low. 99 tokens to get only one bit of jawa scrap...this is now a pointless waste of credits and not worth bothering with.

 

Yes I did get a large number of rep tokens, but selling these netted only 30k out of the 75k spent for the tokens, so one bit of jawa junk cost 45k...yeah, that is not balanced.

 

Also, what happened to the drop rate on Cartel Certificates, you used to get at least a couple, now nothing at all.

 

Yes, BW definitely had a major knee jerk reaction on this and ruined a potential fun extra.

[ExarKyp]

While I'll admit I'm one of the many that took advantage of the "godly" drop rates of the old slot machines, and I certainly believe that the drop rate for jawa junk should be lowered, I believe they did so in an incorrect way altogether.

 

What threw off markets substantially and turned the slot machines into "god modes" was the EQUAL drop rate of all 3 types of jawa scrap. You got just as many purple jawa junk as you did green. I believe the jawa drop rate could remain the same (or even slightly diminished if need be), if they simply changed the drop rates of green/blue/purple scrap to be equivalent to the drop rates of green/blue/purple rep items - so it would be strange if, out of a stack of 100 coins used, you received back any more than 4-7 of the purple grade jawa junk, but would NOT be uncommon to receive something in the range of 10-15 of the blue jawa scrap and 25-40 of the green jawa scrap.

 

This would keep the markets stabalized without removing the jawa drops or reducing them to the point of being completely useless.

[Burba]

I'm utterly disgusted with EA/BW's reaction to this. A logical solution would have been to have introduced diminishing returns to scale. It should be profitable to begin with each week and then the returns should slowly fall away as you bet an increasing number of chips. This would therefore limit the ability for people to spam the machines and milk the credits. Instead now everyone loses.

 

Everyone knows that the house always wins (eventaully) and this would've been a far more equitable way of putting a limit on how much people could win.