Ryaja Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 So I have been talking with guildies and wondering how Assassin Tank Spec with DPS gear would fare in PVP 3.0. Does anyone have any thoughts? One of my guildies is currently trying out Hatred with Dark Charge and he said he is doing really well but idk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekrall Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 He should play darkness with dps gear. He would do more damage and he would be tankier. Skank tanking outside of yolos barely works for juggs, no reason to do it on a sin especially considering sin tanks have the highest dps potential of the three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-ToXiN Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) To give a quick summary: Tank Spec Jugg with DPS Gear: Dont bother, not enough damage to be worth it. DPS Spec Jugg with Tank Gear or just DPS Gear + Tank Stance and Guard: Works pretty great, can still do a ton of damage in DPS spec with dps gear and be decently bulky, especially if theres a healer on your team. Perhaps the most effective way of doing "hybrid" right now. Tank Spec Sin with DPS Gear: Pretty good, little low on survivability but damage is good. DPS Spec Sin with Tank Gear: Not really a good idea. Not enough survivability OR damage. Sin DPS specs just lose too much damage without their respective charge and aren't all that durable. Tank Spec PT with DPS Gear: Totally viable. Very vulnerable to tunneling but the DPS can be huge, and has good AOE damage too. Only thing is its sustained damage, not really burst. Ive had arenas with 1000+ DPS as Tank PT with DPS gear while still doing a ton of protection and managing my guard swaps and taunts. DPS Spec PT with Tank Gear: Ive seen it work against me in solos, but it could have just been poor teammates who kept attacking guarded teammates and the fact that he always had a sage with him who off healed. The survivability is alright and the damage is so-so. Its workable. It really reverses the role of the PT though, AP PT is a squishy spec with MASSIVE burst, whereas using ion cylinder and tank gear with it trades quite a bit of damage for a lot more survivability. Edited January 15, 2015 by Z-ToXiN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 pretty much all tanks specs in dps gear is part of the crop of current fotm in pvp.. i see this constantly on Sin/Shadows, Guardians/Juggs, and VG/PTs the logic of it escapes me in that tanks should generate threat, not damage, but most games at various points in thier life cycle have made this same mistake to try to encourage people to tank by giving them more damage then they should have with very impactful changes to pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitroyoshi Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 theyre viable in many cases and imo that should be fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recamier Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) I think you're better off Mix/Maxing a mix of Tank gear with DPS mods/enhancements. Due to getting the free accuracy and diminishing returns, I'm going to end up hitting between 300 and 400 rating for both crit and surge, and then I'll dump the rest into shield and absorb. I haven't figured out if I should do power or absorb mods yet. I'm going to figure it out after I finish min/maxing my enhancements to see where my stats end up. Of course, I'm getting rid of all the +def enhance/mods. That is my plan anyways. I don't see the point of picking up 100% DPS stats. seems like you'd get dropped way to fast when you have guard on someone. EDIT: This is for PT ShieldTech. Edited January 16, 2015 by Recamier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryaja Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 So your saying use the survivors amoring with dps mods and enhancements? Dps relics or tank relics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryaja Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 Anyone else have any thoughts on this? I have been doing and seeing good results...I am Darkness using DPS Stalker gear. I also bought the focus offhand and ripped the mods and put them in a shield to give me that 20% absorb and 5% shield chance. I know the 4 set piece helps me with recklessness and the 6 makes my maul awesome but should I use the survivor armorings with DPS mods and enhancements? Will the survivor set pieces work better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardimuer Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Anyone else have any thoughts on this? I have been doing and seeing good results...I am Darkness using DPS Stalker gear. I also bought the focus offhand and ripped the mods and put them in a shield to give me that 20% absorb and 5% shield chance. I know the 4 set piece helps me with recklessness and the 6 makes my maul awesome but should I use the survivor armorings with DPS mods and enhancements? Will the survivor set pieces work better? According to ranked Darkness players in the Shadow/Sin forum, the default is to wear DPS gear with a shield offhand and the 4 piece tanking set: The 4 set bonus for the PvP tank gear is that each time you use wither/slow time, 2 seconds is shaved off the time of your AoE/single target taunts. This means if you kept using it on cd, you would potentially shave 4 seconds off of every one of your single target taunts, and 10 seconds off of your AoE taunt. So instead of 15 seconds single target taunts and 45 second AoE taunts, it would be down to 11 second single target taunts and 35 second AoE taunts. What Xinika is suggesting is to rip 4 armorings out of the tank set and swap them into your DPS gear if you were tanking. This is, however, situational. If you're facing teams where you have to focus more on staying alive, this would be useful. If the damage you receive is not a huge problem, however, you can most likely keep the DPS armorings you have without swapping in the tank 4 set bonus. I play tank sin in group ranked, and I am currently fine running with a full DPS gear setup(with the exception of shield ofc). If I knew I was facing a team with high damage, however, I might swap in those 4 tank armorings at the expense of my DPS. If their damage was insane I might even wear a couple full tank pieces mixed with my DPS gear. I cannot stress how EXTREMELY situational it is for group ranked. Know what kind of team you are facing and use your own judgement to decide what mix of tankiness and damage you want. I advise the same for regs. If you know you're going to dominate the opposition, no point in wearing tank gear at all. My understanding is that the +2% DR from the tanking 2 piece is good mitigation, and the reduced cooldown on taunts in the 4 piece is needed for group utility to keep your team mates alive. You would only go with the DPS set bonus if the problem is the enemy team taking too little damage rather than them putting out too much damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beakertanks Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I was hoping this would stay secret. Sigh. I shadow tank in DPS gear. I can solo pretty much anything but a geared and well played healer. But they take FOREVER to kill me, so it is not really an issue. In solo ranked I usually do 120k damage AND 120k prot per round. Which, you know, is sort of useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeraz Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Tanks who believe that damage is obsolete are playing from the wrong premise to begin with. The greatest advantage of a tank in this game is Guard, by a huge margin. Especially given that all "tank-able" classes get the taunts regardless. With that said, the Tank's ability to influence the fight through damage/peels/CCs are what make them most useful. Regardless of spec/class a Tank should ALWAYS seek to maximize damage in PvP. I would GLADLY drop a tank that lives longer but does less than half of another tanks comparable damage. @OP Currently Immortal Jugg isn't very good in dps gear because they just can't do any dmg, even with it. The only thing they've got is Crushing Blow but it isn't consistent. Vengeance Spec in Soretsu Form with dmg gear is really awesome however. Our tank uses that in Ranked and he has been a massive impact on the game. Juggs can also get away with this the best due to ridiculous defense CDs. Darkness Sin is the highest damage "tank spec" by default. It highly depends on your meta but it is OFTEN better to put some extra dmg stats into your gear. Sins don't have the same layers of protection as a Jugg though so you have to be more wary of dying. Dot purges are nice though and can counter certain classes/metas. Powertech is the in roughest spot for dps gear. Mostly because they die much quicker than the other tanks without tank spec + gear. Regardless, it can still be done with high damage. Powetech Tanks in dps gear will fold quickly to heavy dot comps/metas. So basically Vengeance Juggs can get away with it. Sins can get away with it in dot heavy formats and not in direct dmg heavy formats. Powertechs can get away with it in direct dmg heavy formats and not in dot heavy formats. Edited January 17, 2015 by Xeraz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrolan Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Currently Immortal Jugg isn't very good in dps gear because they just can't do any dmg, even with it. The only thing they've got is Crushing Blow but it isn't consistent. Vengeance Spec in Soretsu Form with dmg gear is really awesome however. Our tank uses that in Ranked and he has been a massive impact on the game. Juggs can also get away with this the best due to ridiculous defense CDs. Is this with or without a shield? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiveringPotato Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 To give a quick summary: Tank Spec Jugg with DPS Gear: Dont bother, not enough damage to be worth it. DPS Spec Jugg with Tank Gear or just DPS Gear + Tank Stance and Guard: Works pretty great, can still do a ton of damage in DPS spec with dps gear and be decently bulky, especially if theres a healer on your team. Perhaps the most effective way of doing "hybrid" right now. Tank Spec Sin with DPS Gear: Pretty good, little low on survivability but damage is good. DPS Spec Sin with Tank Gear: Not really a good idea. Not enough survivability OR damage. Sin DPS specs just lose too much damage without their respective charge and aren't all that durable. Tank Spec PT with DPS Gear: Totally viable. Very vulnerable to tunneling but the DPS can be huge, and has good AOE damage too. Only thing is its sustained damage, not really burst. Ive had arenas with 1000+ DPS as Tank PT with DPS gear while still doing a ton of protection and managing my guard swaps and taunts. DPS Spec PT with Tank Gear: Ive seen it work against me in solos, but it could have just been poor teammates who kept attacking guarded teammates and the fact that he always had a sage with him who off healed. The survivability is alright and the damage is so-so. Its workable. It really reverses the role of the PT though, AP PT is a squishy spec with MASSIVE burst, whereas using ion cylinder and tank gear with it trades quite a bit of damage for a lot more survivability. Err. I think you have it the other way around for juggs. Saw a tankspec jugg hitting for 12-14k crushing blows, in DPS gear, lol. Also to the OP, tank assassin in DPS gear can be pretty nasty, you probably don't have enough survivability to actually try to tank, but in 1v1's and other combat situations, you'll still hit fairly hard while retaining a good amount of survivability. For instance, I got hit for ~23k damage over the channel of depredating volts with recklessness on my operative when I was stunned. Also got hit by a 12k maul from someone else in tank spec using DPS gear. Not fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iPereira Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 As a tank who is actually good at the bare bones functionality of a tank I very much dislike people in tank spec with DPS gear. Why? Because a decent healer and I can take it to the gas in arena's and hold 4 or 5 competent players off a node for several minutes so having mediocre DPS with better than normal survive-ability doesn't help the team achieve the W. But I'm very good at guard swapping and I think there's a whopping one other tank on our server who guard swaps well and he doesn't always tank soooo If you're into solo ranked it may actually boost your win % skank tanking. ALSO food for thought killing your opponent boosts your chance of survival. You might get jumped and screwed in REGS by 6 guys and wish you had several more seconds alive but ultimately maximum offense and defense comes from a balanced comp not a balanced hybrid if that makes any sense. 3.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MystbladeWA Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Is this with or without a shield? I'd suggest it would have to be. Otherwise all you are getting is +60% armor i think. Which likely wouldnt be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeraz Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) Is this with or without a shield? Tbh, it doesn't really matter. Grab both and switch depending on your opponents. Generally I don't consider the Shield worth it for Vengeance. If you spec dps gear I think the shield adds up to like 5% damage mitigation while you lose the extra damage from dropping it. As a tank who is actually good at the bare bones functionality of a tank I very much dislike people in tank spec with DPS gear. Why? Because a decent healer and I can take it That's about as far as I got. To be completely honest, a decent healer with guard/taunts should be able to live regardless of whether you are wearing tank gear or not. Actually, if you were wearing dps gear you could more effectively kill the enemy dps which would further relieve the pressure from your healer. Edited January 18, 2015 by Xeraz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iPereira Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 That's about as far as I got. To be completely honest, a decent healer with guard/taunts should be able to live regardless of whether you are wearing tank gear or not. Actually, if you were wearing dps gear you could more effectively kill the enemy dps which would further relieve the pressure from your healer. Latter half is fair enough but the beginning would suggest dps geared tanks take arena's to the gas EVERY time which I haven't seen on my server as of yet. Also not taking the time to read more than half a post; then turning around and taking the time to respond to it strikes me as odd. Difference of opinion I suppose, I did learn from this thread to look out for Sin/Dow tanking with DPS gear though, sounds very strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedudeabidesman Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Hi all...I'm new to sin tanking so I'm looking for a little clarification. I'm currently maxed on ranked coms but am unsure which path to follow for gear (starting with the non ranked sets.) I bought two pieces of survivor gear for the set bonus, should I stick with the set for the 4 pc bonus? If I buy two pieces of dps gear, can I combine two different set bonuses? I'm a skilled pvp player in general but by no means top tier....I'm good with guard swap and taunt, my dps isn't bad but could be better and i enjoy the team aspect more than i care about individual accolades....although I strive to be top in protection every game I play. Also, which augments should I be using? Relics? I've seen posts that claim max expertise is actually a hindrance, is that true? Regardless of whether I join a ranked team, I just like being knowledgeable of the class (any class) and I like pvp. I'm trying to avoid "wasting" coms because it can be a long slog to gear up (as you all know) Any useful advice would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryaja Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 I am currently building my Sin Tank/DPS right now. I am going to buy the waist and the bracers for the survivor tank set bonus. The reason for this is they are only 600 WZ coms and then u can buy a DPS mod for 400 WZ coms to turn the mod into a DPS piece. The first thing I did was purchase the offhand focus and rip the mods and put them into a shield Offhand. Then work on getting your 4 piece DPS set bonus so that recklessness is on a shorter cooldown. The one thing I am not sure to do yet is whether I should get RW and Fortunate Redoubt for relics or get Focused Retribution and SA or a mix of the two. Thoughts anyone on this?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoju Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Disclaimer : This is my opinion, I do not speak for anyone other then myself, and nor do i say I am right - I only post what i think. Thank you for your patience.. I play a tank, in full tank gear.. and i do pretty well with it .. and while yes i can see the allure of building a tank that balances that mitigation with damage, allowing you to put out enough damage to be a factor, but still have that tanky-ness that allows you to live longer. But , i think you lose a lot of that teamwork aspect, a tank was designed for mitigation and protection, you put your healer in guard, CC for them , keeping them alive to to do there job. Healing. your DPS classes are what are meant to take people out .. i may not get 50 kills in the War-zone, but i normally hover around 1 maybe 2 deaths, as well as protection, and holding objectives. The idea behind the tank is a support class, your taunts/guard/ccs are designed to take the stress of damage off others, but the trade is that you do less damage, its that "lone wolf" ideology that has come about in most MMO's. I am a Army of One, forget my team, I am the reason we will win or lose this battle, we have all seen them , they are the one at the end of the WZ screaming cuz they have 30 or so kills, but 0 points in objectives and wonder "how could we have lost!" I used to see it a lot in GSF too, back when people actually GSF'd , sorry off topic. For every bump in your damage, you lose that bump in your mitigation, instead of taking on 5 people with your healer, you can now only take 4, or 3, the protection you grant your healer and others is lessened, thus your use is lessened. Maybe in ranked matches where you team is cultivated and built around each other, and they all stick togeather and pick up the slack of each other, this works, but of the people i see in normal, yes, i see juggs that seem to put a bit more damage, but it hasn't seemed to be a huge factor. Again just my 2 cents. Not saying im right , just how I've seen things. ``` Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts