cs_zoltan Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Thanks a bunch. Mainstats from datacrons is still 40? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Thanks a bunch. Mainstats from datacrons is still 40? 50 thanks to rishi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) 50 thanks to rishi Thanks, I made your "bug fixes". Dps still seems low, 4173, even with the 2PC added. Edited March 13, 2015 by cs_zoltan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) So... I put your values into my matlab script for gear optimizing (cause you were saying you were getting too low for everything)... How does 249 Crit, 360 Surge, 600 Alacrity hitting 6372.6903 DPS on average sound? Yeah... I don't think your rotation is sustainable. Either that or we both have things wrong with the maths. For reference, I included everything except for the 10% alacrity boost from using recharge cells. Anyway, things you forgot: Flaming Wound bonus to Incendiary Round/Supercharge/Plasma Cell Supercharge having a lower uptime during execute Only Assailable, Overwhelmed, Execute Boost and Supercharge boost being multiplicative increases, everything else in the discipline (e.g. Volatile Warhead + Susceptible) is additive with each other. Edited March 15, 2015 by TACeMossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) So... I put your values into my matlab script for gear optimizing (cause you were saying you were getting too low for everything)... How does 255 Crit, 360 Surge, 600 Alacrity hitting 6283.6783 DPS on average sound? Yeah... I don't think your rotation is sustainable. Either that or we both have things wrong with the maths. For reference, I included everything except for the 10% alacrity boost from using recharge cells. Anyway, things you forgot: Flaming Wound bonus to Incendiary Round/Supercharge/Plasma Cell Supercharge having a lower uptime during execute Well the rotation I think is very much sustainable. There's 2 filler spot, sub 30% one of them is MB the other is shared between EN and RS, and not-sub 30% it's PS and RS and EN. With cooldowns you can do even better. Also I made a bunch of edit, I'll post them in a second. Only Assailable, Overwhelmed, Execute Boost and Supercharge boost being multiplicative increases, everything else in the discipline (e.g. Volatile Warhead + Susceptible) is additive with each other. FFS, there's so many of them, I guess I have to go through all of those *****. (What about the armor?) Edited March 15, 2015 by cs_zoltan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) Well the rotation I think is very much sustainable. There's 2 filler spot, sub 30% one of them is MB the other is shared between EN and RS, and not-sub 30% it's PS and RS and EN. With cooldowns you can do even better. Also I made a bunch of edit, I'll post them in a second. FFS, there's so many of them, I guess I have to go through all of those *****. (What about the armor?) Armor is post-calculation (like susceptible, execute boosts, buff-based DoT boosts and overwhelmed) so its multiplicative. Oh and the number got bigger cause I realised my value for Supercharge's uptime was wrong Outside the exectue, its uptime would be every 52.94 seconds (18.9% uptime), and inside the execute it drops to every 81.81 seconds (12.2% uptime) So its either my maths is wrong, or IO is significantly more OP than we originally believed. NOTE: I changed everything into Mando terms for easier calculating. So maybe that killed it (I doubt it though) Edited March 15, 2015 by TACeMossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) Outside the exectue, its uptime would be every 52.94 seconds (18.9% uptime), and inside the execute it drops to every 81.81 seconds (12.2% uptime) This is how I did it: double ent_upt = 15.0/90.0; double scg_cd_ne = 10.0/((3.0-ent_upt)/15.0); double scg_cd_e = 10.0/((2.0-ent_upt)/15.0); double scg_upt_ne = 10.0/scg_cd_ne; double scg_upt_e = 10/scg_cd_e; double scb_upt_ne = 15.0/scg_cd_ne; double scb_upt_e = 15.0/scg_cd_e; I get 4435 dps now. Edited March 15, 2015 by cs_zoltan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) This is how I did it: double ent_upt = 15.0/90.0; double scg_cd_ne = 10.0/((3.0-ent_upt)/15.0); double scg_cd_e = 10.0/((2.0-ent_upt)/15.0); double scg_upt_ne = 10.0/scg_cd_ne; double scg_upt_e = 10/scg_cd_e; double scb_upt_ne = 15.0/scg_cd_ne; double scb_upt_e = 15.0/scg_cd_e; I get 4668.42 dps now. Well, we're getting there now. Though the fact my 0 crit/480 surge/1448 accuracy section of the simulation (it just keeps going through everything above 758 accuracy) ended up with 5.8kdps, I think we both have to finish fixing this. EDIT - Lol I just found one major contributor to the huge DPS boost. Silly Kwerty, Mercs don't get Explosive Fuel! Still, currently saying 273 crit/360 surge/600 alacrity for 6243.7302 DPS Edited March 15, 2015 by TACeMossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Still, currently saying 273 crit/360 surge/600 alacrity for 6243.7302 DPS For me it's: 420 crit, 240 surge, 240 alacrity and 4435.77 dps (I accidentally made SCG a 100% DoT boost not 10% ) BTW, is Missile Salvo additive as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) For me it's: 420 crit, 240 surge, 240 alacrity and 4435.77 dps (I accidentally made SCG a 100% DoT boost not 10% ) BTW, is Missile Salvo additive as well? I thought they took missile salvo out of the game. *Checks* Wait nope, the damage boost is still there, it just doesn't hit twice anymore. Well, there goes any chance of me dropping the damage -_- Its additive BTW Anyway, I've started uncovering the problem. Things like Supercharged Burn hitting 33% harder than it should... EDIT 2 - EUREKA! I accidentally was ADDING surge instead of Multiplying it! Edited March 15, 2015 by TACeMossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) For easier reference I changed it back to live IO (30% dot surge + 2% alacrity). ATM at 4613 dps. Missing around 400-600 dps I'd say (Zorz record parses are lucky parses afterall). Probably less, the general rotation I drawed up isn't pushing resources to the limit. Edited March 15, 2015 by cs_zoltan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) Anyway, here's the results now that I fixed up that very nasty glitch: Max Average DPS: 5012.1552 Recommended Gear: 397 Crit, 240 Surge, 720 Alacrity NOTE: This is post 3.1.2, and assumes the alacrity boost from Recharge Cells doesn't exist. Variable Alacrity is a pain to model. Oh and I decided to change to live conditions to see compared to Zorz as well. LIVE: 5211.0513 DPS 482 Crit, 240 Surge, 720 Alacrity Edited March 15, 2015 by TACeMossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 NOTE: This is post 3.1.2, and assumes the alacrity boost from Recharge Cells doesn't exist. Variable Alacrity is a pain to model. What's wrong with this approach: alacrityper=30 * (1 - pow(( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) ),( ( alacrityrating / 60) / 1.25 ) )) + (6.0/90.0) * 10; If it works with relic why not with alacrity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 LIVE: 5211.0513 DPS 482 Crit, 240 Surge, 720 Alacrity That seems about right. Now I just wonder what's wrong with mine :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) What's wrong with this approach: alacrityper=30 * (1 - pow(( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) ),( ( alacrityrating / 60) / 1.25 ) )) + (6.0/90.0) * 10; If it works with relic why not with alacrity? What if you were to activate Thermal Sensor Override in that period, giving more resources? What if you were to use the attack adrenal there, allowing it to be used more often? What about if you were to use Electro Net under Recharge Cells, pushing it slightly earlier into the rotation? Its things like that which cause variable alacrity to be a pain. Anyway, I'm off to bed. I should have really gone to bed 2 hours ago, cause its 2am here right now, but whatever. Was nice working on something other than the Powertech section of my guide (seriously, that is painful. Mainly cause I have to legacy everything to the powertech, and then get 2 parses that don't fall apart, and then upload them to youtube + parsely, and then rewrite a lot of the guide...) Edited March 15, 2015 by TACeMossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 What if you were to activate Thermal Sensor Override in that period, giving more resources? What if you were to use the attack adrenal there, allowing it to be used more often? What about if you were to use Electro Net under Recharge Cells, pushing it slightly earlier into the rotation? True enough, still it's better to at least include it as a general alacrity uptime than nothing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrlorrd Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 (edited) Anyway, here's the results now that I fixed up that very nasty glitch: Max Average DPS: 5012.1552 Recommended Gear: 397 Crit, 240 Surge, 720 Alacrity NOTE: This is post 3.1.2, and assumes the alacrity boost from Recharge Cells doesn't exist. Variable Alacrity is a pain to model. Oh and I decided to change to live conditions to see compared to Zorz as well. LIVE: 5211.0513 DPS 482 Crit, 240 Surge, 720 Alacrity So 10 alacrity augments plus 2x alacrity enchs. Damn and to think i was so high on surge whole that time and aim. Are those numbers correct ? Just double checking before i buy those 10 alacrity augments Edited March 16, 2015 by starrlorrd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 (edited) But its impossible to get those gear numbers . Or other way around, its possible only with replacing all accuracy enchc's to alacrity ones , but how do u want to hit anything with 90% accu ?? With accuracy Augments. "But you give up 520Aim for that!" Yes. But Aim is an additive DPS Increase. Alacrity is multiplicative. We have reached a gear level where the benefits of alacrity are better than aim or power, because we have so much bonus damage from aim, power, mainhand/offhand, and the base damage of the abilities Anyway, while I haven't tested it on my Mando yet (cause he's only level 57), the model situation was set up the exact same way as the gear optimization code used in my PT/VG guides. And I've received feedback of up to a 6% increase in DPS by using lots more alacrity. True enough, still it's better to at least include it as a general alacrity uptime than nothing at all. Fair enough. I've modified it so its: DPS = (DPS * 6) / ((84/Alacrity) + (6/(Alacrity + 0.1))) instead of DPS = DPS / (15 / Alacrity) (DPS being the 15 second rotation's damage) Gotta remember that recharge cells is every '90' seconds, but reduced by alacrity. End result: 192s (Oh yeah, I went there): 4650.8078 DPS 353 Crit 222 Surge 333 Alacrity 198s: 5040.3078 DPS 397 Crit 240 Surge 720 Alacrity Both of these assume post-3.1.2-nerf Edited March 16, 2015 by TACeMossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrlorrd Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 (edited) yeah was late and have later multiplied those 14 augs slots and yeah ur scenario lookin more and more promising thats why editied it and going just now to test it on dummy and mayby late before-reset-ops and as of now i have full 192 BiS with gettin around 4.6-7 lucky pars 4.9 so can check it even with 742 alacrity Edited March 16, 2015 by starrlorrd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodamin Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Wait, WHAT? You guys suggest 740 alacrity now? Is this real life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LtBombshell Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 In the past few weeks I've talked a lot about my model and optimal gearing for IO. 120 alacrity, 650 crit looked BiS with what I had under my hand... I kept working on my model, refinning it, adding pieces that wouldn't change the final DPS by more than a hundreth. Yesterday I've checked how I implemented relics procs to also adds Adrenals and I found an irregularity. I implemented the relic proc in two different parts for crits which was raising average crit and bonus damage way over the real number... This corrected, I've run the calculations again, but they are non-conclusive for now.. I must have another issue in my numbers since the average DPS I get to no matter what stat combinaison I try, is 200-300 under what would be expected of IO. Despite this, the 'BiS' numbers appears to be 120 alacrity/600 surge but thoese numbers are completely unreliable. I'll keep working on the model and update the thread if I find where my mistakes are. I literally barely understood a word in this post. Running calculations? Model? (I have never min/maxed before) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrlorrd Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) End result: 192s (Oh yeah, I went there): 4650.8078 DPS 353 Crit 222 Surge 333 Alacrity As of now when tested 192 BiS alacrity recomendation ( 111 - 1,47%, i went with 1 alac piece and two alacr augments to get 4,68% alacrity. 333 - 4,41% ) i got 100dps increase on dummy( Avg Parse was always 4.5, 4.6, with that it was 4650, 4.7) and 150dps loss on ops. In my opinion is that crit rating (~353) is way to low. U want a solid 33% of live crit hits in all fights, so with that crit i got like 28 , 29% crits at walkers or underlurker (without such powerfull gear like 198 u want all those crits u can have especially on those damn ads, alacrity does not give it). Till this day and how this spec is build all those alacrity bonuses looks like alacrity i useless in 192 BiS. Only after changes we can asume and test it. I use Fascinate rotation. EDIT: In my estimation , we need a higher crit rating cuz we dont have any autocrits or even boost to crit like Maras Anni have or even Gunslingers, only that surge bonus is makin our life easier, other than that its just grind to get that crit/ aim/ power balance, eh Edited March 19, 2015 by starrlorrd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 As of now when tested 192 BiS alacrity recomendation ( 111 - 1,47%, i went with 1 alac piece and two alacr augments to get 4,68% alacrity. 333 - 4,41% ) i got 100dps increase on dummy( Avg Parse was always 4.5, 4.6, with that it was 4650, 4.7) and 150dps loss on ops. In my opinion is that crit rating (~353) is way to low. U want a solid 33% of live crit hits in all fights, so with that crit i got like 28 , 29% crits at walkers or underlurker (without such powerfull gear like 198 u want all those crits u can have especially on those damn ads, alacrity does not give it). Till this day and how this spec is build all those alacrity bonuses looks like alacrity i useless in 192 BiS. Only after changes we can asume and test it. I use Fascinate rotation. EDIT: In my estimation , we need a higher crit rating cuz we dont have any autocrits or even boost to crit like Maras Anni have or even Gunslingers, only that surge bonus is makin our life easier, other than that its just grind to get that crit/ aim/ power balance, eh To be fair, those numbers assume post 3.1.2 nerf, so of course the crit recommendation is gonna be lower than on live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrlorrd Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) Yeah , but as you see i tried to insert ur model into already given alacrity bonus ( those 2% + mine of 2,68%) so why is this a diffrence ? i just made post nerf alacity rating and still it didnt bring much and even get drops on bosses. As of alacrity itself , I didnt look closely enough but when i got only that 2% alacr or even ~333 rating, alacrity wont go up more than 12 % with vent heat combat spec option. In my estimation its a lock on 12% and even after post nerf u wont be needing more than those 2% (~160 alac rating) Thats what im saying EDIT: If it goes for 192 BiS gear, with 198 gear well i will be goin definetly with more alacrity, seeing that increase is real, just need a solid crit rating to it and we will be in right place , i mean you will be because ur calculations are rock on point EDIT2: Founded BiS 192 Crit rating Edited March 24, 2015 by starrlorrd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgustusCaesar Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Anyway, here's the results now that I fixed up that very nasty glitch: Max Average DPS: 5012.1552 Recommended Gear: 397 Crit, 240 Surge, 720 Alacrity NOTE: This is post 3.1.2, and assumes the alacrity boost from Recharge Cells doesn't exist. Variable Alacrity is a pain to model. Oh and I decided to change to live conditions to see compared to Zorz as well. LIVE: 5211.0513 DPS 482 Crit, 240 Surge, 720 Alacrity Well 3.1.2 is out. How is this running.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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