Floplag Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I see a lot of long drawn out posts on what to do to fix us, and its overkill. Asking for 50 changes wont get us anything.. i suggest we as a community focus on a few simple fixes. For me, its simple, here are a few options: -increase effectiveness of Energy Shield to be on par with Inquisitor Static Barrier in terms both of cooldown and effectiveness. -change Kolto Overload to the equivalent of Juggs Enraged Defense, or at least let us use it at 70% as they can. -some kind of immunity to gap closers like snipers have, perhaps for 3-5 seconds after JetBoost to give it a root or leap/pull immunity. -remove the cooldown on our base heals heal since Sorcs dont have one. -give us some kind of "oh crap" ability either an escape such as a reverse "Jet Charge" with the above leap/pull immunity or something to make the dps focusing us to at least think about target swapping as every other class has. These are all simple, realistic options that would tremendously increase our viability without pushing us over the top. The last thing i want is to be the next FOTM, i just want to be viable.. nothing more, nothing less. Im not saying we need all of them, just offering up options. it doesnt have to be a thesis statement, we don't need that much, we just need the same quality of life things that other classes have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lattervane Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 All of these seem like reasonable solutions. I never understood why Sorc's got so many defensive cooldowns, bubbles, CC, spammable heals, and now force barrier and we were left with a crappy 25% damage reduction shield, heals with long cooldowns, and no absorb bubble. Sorc bubble should be limited to healing spec only imo. But if some of these changes were made to Mercs, I wouldn't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macroeconomics Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I'd be happy if they just gave us back some off healing ability. Sorcs can off heal for 300k in a wz match. Merc off heals? More like 30k..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I'd be happy if they just gave us back some off healing ability. Sorcs can off heal for 300k in a wz match. Merc off heals? More like 30k..... Couple of things re: Sorc healing. Much of this isn't really off-healing, in the sense that they are helping out as a healer. Sorcerers get the majority of their defensive mitigation from heals and absorb shields which show up as healing. Mercs get a combination of mitigation including healing, DR, and defense in some specs. Simply comparing the heal numbers at the end of a WZ isn't an apples to apples comparison. IMO, Mercs don't need that much help. They need an "anti-focus" escape type cooldown and better off-healing and they will be good. IMO, they should: 1) Up the max health limit of Kolto Overload to 75% from 35%; 2) Remove the cooldown from Healing Scan and lower its cast time for DPS specs to 1.5 seconds; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macroeconomics Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Couple of things re: Sorc healing. Much of this isn't really off-healing, in the sense that they are helping out as a healer. Sorcerers get the majority of their defensive mitigation from heals and absorb shields which show up as healing. Mercs get a combination of mitigation including healing, DR, and defense in some specs. Simply comparing the heal numbers at the end of a WZ isn't an apples to apples comparison. Absorb shields are an excellent way for a sorc to help keep a teammate up. They can be cast while moving. They can be pre-cast before the fighting begins. What does the Merc have? A 1k heal that is more of a red herring than a real benefit. But you do have one thing right. You can't compare Sorc dps off heals to Merc dps off heals at the end of a match by just looking at the numbers. Because those numbers dramatically UNDERSTATE the Sorc off heals. Static barriers cast on a full health teammate generate no healing numbers, but still contribute to team longevity. So in fact the situation is even MORE unbalanced than it already appears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Absorb shields are an excellent way for a sorc to help keep a teammate up. They can be cast while moving. They can be pre-cast before the fighting begins. What does the Merc have? A 1k heal that is more of a red herring than a real benefit. But you do have one thing right. You can't compare Sorc dps off heals to Merc dps off heals at the end of a match by just looking at the numbers. Because those numbers dramatically UNDERSTATE the Sorc off heals. Static barriers cast on a full health teammate generate no healing numbers, but still contribute to team longevity. So in fact the situation is even MORE unbalanced than it already appears. Static Barrier only helps at all when its used. I'm not sure why you think it is relevant whether the recipient is at full health. If Static Barrier contributed anything to the match it will be counted as healing. But don't let me intrude on the Merc pity party. Edited January 8, 2015 by Master-Nala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 Couple of things re: Sorc healing. Much of this isn't really off-healing, in the sense that they are helping out as a healer. Sorcerers get the majority of their defensive mitigation from heals and absorb shields which show up as healing. Mercs get a combination of mitigation including healing, DR, and defense in some specs. Simply comparing the heal numbers at the end of a WZ isn't an apples to apples comparison. IMO, Mercs don't need that much help. They need an "anti-focus" escape type cooldown and better off-healing and they will be good. IMO, they should: 1) Up the max health limit of Kolto Overload to 75% from 35%; 2) Remove the cooldown from Healing Scan and lower its cast time for DPS specs to 1.5 seconds; not true.. check the cooldowns on your heals, then check the cooldowns on ours.. it isn't rocket science. Sorcs have a marked advantage over both Mercs and Ops in that regard and are the only one capable of healing themselves back to full, so to speak... im not even talking about bubbles and your emergency self heal... im just talking he base healing skills... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) DPS Operatives only have a cooldown on Kolto Pack. Kolto probe is pretty close to the gold standard for off-healing. Their free channel, Diagnostic Scan is pretty weak but it's free. Sorcs have resurgence on a six second cooldown which would clip the HoT. Then there is Benevolence which is a resource hog but has no cooldown and finally there is static barrier with its 20 second lockout. Mercs clearly are the worst with Healing Scan and Emergency scan having cooldowns and Med Shot being so bad. That said, it is really not as dire as you all make it out to be. Mercs need tweaks not a revamp. Edited January 8, 2015 by Master-Nala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DariusCalera Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 1: As others have said, change Kolto Overload so it activates at 75% but also have it usable while stunned. 2: Change Priming Shot so that it procs the instant TM "on use" instead of "on damage". At the very least make it a tech attack. 3: Bring back the old Rocket Punch so that it knock backs AND roots. 5: For DPS heals, remove the CDs and revert them to casts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 The only change KO needs is for 30% DR while active to be made baseline for all troopers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 The only change KO needs is for 30% DR while active to be made baseline for all troopers. I think a stronger buff is warranted to make KO a true 'escape' type cooldown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macroeconomics Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Static Barrier only helps at all when its used. I'm not sure why you think it is relevant whether the recipient is at full health. If Static Barrier contributed anything to the match it will be counted as healing. But don't let me intrude on the Merc pity party. Thanks for confirming that you don't understand how Static Barrier's effect is counted in endgame stats. If a Sorc casts Static Barrier on a full health teammate, it protects him from any initial damage. But that protection (which effectively is a deferred effect heal) is NOT counted in any endgame stats. This is why Sorc dps off heals are underestimated by endgame stats. And has been noted, Sorc dps off heals are already measured by endgame stats as 8-10x greater than Merc dps off heals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 Static Barrier only helps at all when its used. I'm not sure why you think it is relevant whether the recipient is at full health. If Static Barrier contributed anything to the match it will be counted as healing. But don't let me intrude on the Merc pity party. while we are on the subject of static barrier versus energy shield... also note that out can only be used on us, while theirs can be cast on allies. another key difference, just to add another log to the fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 DPS Operatives only have a cooldown on Kolto Pack. Kolto probe is pretty close to the gold standard for off-healing. Their free channel, Diagnostic Scan is pretty weak but it's free. Sorcs have resurgence on a six second cooldown which would clip the HoT. Then there is Benevolence which is a resource hog but has no cooldown and finally there is static barrier with its 20 second lockout. Mercs clearly are the worst with Healing Scan and Emergency scan having cooldowns and Med Shot being so bad. That said, it is really not as dire as you all make it out to be. Mercs need tweaks not a revamp. you are omitting Dark Heal, which has no cooldown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venomlash Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 you are omitting Dark Heal, which has no cooldown. ¿Se habla Ud. Jedi Sage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 ¿Se habla Ud. Jedi Sage? you really needed me to go look up the jedi equivalent for you? its Benevolence, lvl 10 skill with no cooldown heres a tip, use the calcualtor at Dulfy or other sources.. here is dulfy's http://dulfy.net/2014/10/13/swtor-disciplines-calculator-swtor_miner/?link=dGEAAAAKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Thanks for confirming that you don't understand how Static Barrier's effect is counted in endgame stats. If a Sorc casts Static Barrier on a full health teammate, it protects him from any initial damage. But that protection (which effectively is a deferred effect heal) is NOT counted in any endgame stats. This is why Sorc dps off heals are underestimated by endgame stats. And has been noted, Sorc dps off heals are already measured by endgame stats as 8-10x greater than Merc dps off heals. How do you do this? Every time you post you look more retarded than before. Static Barrier on full health does count, I'm *********** sure of it. I use it to run over the fire at the start of huttball and I instantly get the 3k healing medal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venomlash Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Then there is Benevolence which is a resource hog but has no cooldown and finally there is static barrier with its 20 second lockout. you are omitting Dark Heal, which has no cooldown. its Benevolence, lvl 10 skill with no cooldown okay, maybe I was being a little bit more cryptic and snarky than I needed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Thanks for confirming that you don't understand how Static Barrier's effect is counted in endgame stats. If a Sorc casts Static Barrier on a full health teammate, it protects him from any initial damage. But that protection (which effectively is a deferred effect heal) is NOT counted in any endgame stats. This is why Sorc dps off heals are underestimated by endgame stats. And has been noted, Sorc dps off heals are already measured by endgame stats as 8-10x greater than Merc dps off heals. Then why do Sorcerers and Sages, get the 3K heal medal from Barrier from the initial hits at the start of a match? And what's your evidence for your statement. I can bubble the team and if one of them gets hit with a 3K+ hit the bubble is expended and I am credited with a heal. This is at the very beginning of the match before they have taken any damage. Are you stating that the game awards healing medals but doesn't add that healing to stats? I'm more than willing to be proven wrong, that's how you learn the mechanics, but I'm not taking your word for it when the evidence suggests the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) you are omitting Dark Heal, which has no cooldown. Really? Then there is Benevolence which is a resource hog but has no cooldown What the other guy was trying to state, was that I did not omit Dark Heal, I just used the Sage name. I did so because I always forget the Sorc names since I main a Sage. Edited January 8, 2015 by Master-Nala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 Really? What the other guy was trying to state, was that I did not omit Dark Heal, I just used the Sage name. I did so because I always forget the Sorc names since I main a Sage. 45 force is a hog? really? out of 600? Even if it were its a skill that the other dps classes that can off heal DO NOT HAVE, regardless of cost. In the 10 seconds i have to wait after using my heal you can heal yourself for another 20-30K that i cannot not counting your "oh crap" heal that oh by the way we also dont have... and your improved shields... Honestly, at this point ive forgotten what your actual point is but if you are in any way suggesting that you as a sage do not have a huge advantage... youre are not being honest or you dont know your class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macroeconomics Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 How do you do this? Every time you post you look more retarded than before. Static Barrier on full health does count, I'm *********** sure of it. I use it to run over the fire at the start of huttball and I instantly get the 3k healing medal... Every time you post, you post about something you have no idea about. I've cast Static Barrier 20 times in a wz, making certain to cast only on full health teammates, and then have gone out of my way to not do direct heals. No healing score in endgame stats. Medals? Does anyone even care about those? The devs balance based on meta average output. Which is biased, on top of being already grossly unbalanced for off healing dps subclasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 45 force is a hog? really? out of 600? Sages and Sorcerers do not regenerate Force anywhere near as fast as the other classes. If we use powers like Benevolence it can crash our Force quickly. Even if it were its a skill that the other dps classes that can off heal DO NOT HAVE, regardless of cost. Scoundrels have Slow Release Medpack which can keep a constant HoT on them forever. In the 10 seconds i have to wait after using my heal you can heal yourself for another 20-30K that i cannot not counting your "oh crap" heal that oh by the way we also dont have... Merc off-healing could use some help, I said that above. What's your point? Honestly, at this point ive forgotten what your actual point is but if you are in any way suggesting that you as a sage do not have a huge advantage... youre are not being honest or you dont know your class. We don't have an advantage over Operatives/Scoundrels. We do against Mercs. As I said above. You all keep saying that Sorcerers/Sages are heads and shoulders above the other healers and that's just not true and never will be because they gave one of the best healing powers in the game to DPS Scoundrels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Every time you post, you post about something you have no idea about. I've cast Static Barrier 20 times in a wz, making certain to cast only on full health teammates, and then have gone out of my way to not do direct heals. No healing score in endgame stats. Medals? Does anyone even care about those? The devs balance based on meta average output. Which is biased, on top of being already grossly unbalanced for off healing dps subclasses. You did it again!!! /slowclap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Every time you post, you post about something you have no idea about. I've cast Static Barrier 20 times in a wz, making certain to cast only on full health teammates, and then have gone out of my way to not do direct heals. No healing score in endgame stats. Medals? Does anyone even care about those? The devs balance based on meta average output. Which is biased, on top of being already grossly unbalanced for off healing dps subclasses. Did you actually see the shield expended or did it time out? Because absorb shields only count when used and my experience is different from yours. Just casting the bubble isn't the key, it's the shield being expended. I don't see any evidence that an expended shield doesn't count it stats. I've been in games where the only thing I've done is cast bubble because of a undermanned team ending the WZ and it counted in stats if it was used. It's akin to Kolto Shell which doesn't count if it isn't activated by an attack. Edited January 9, 2015 by Master-Nala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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