Force Barrier Needs to go

[foxmob]

or...you could click on the imps.

[Icykill_]

Why was this much survivability given to sorcs but other classes were just ignored...it's laughable when you compare sorc to merc. Sorc is superior in every way. Healing, damage, mobility, survivability...

Dealing with constant force barriers has made pvp more frustrating than fun.

 

Ok... Mercs have a problem at the moment in Arena... But in 8 man are totally viable

As for Sorcs having OP survivability, have you forgotten about Operatives, Assassins and Juggs survivability?

Ops are a pain to kill if they play right, so are Sins and Juggs...

For a long time Sorc's were the squishiest, but had one of the highest dps in the game and used to have the ability to instant cast whirlwind as an escape measure... They got heavily nerfed in dps and they replaced instant whirlwind with force barrier...

Before 3.0 no one complained too much about the force barrier because Sorcs didn't do as much damage anymore, so less people played them and you didn't need to stop them free casting as much... Now that they have decent dps again, which they should, you are complaining that they should lose their defence because of it...

Plenty of people have explained how to counter the force barrier... Hard stuns is the best... But seeing as you are playing 8 man... 3 min CDs can be a pain for a Sorc... They have to consider when or if they should use it... Another tactic you could use is to make them pop it... Retreat, heal, re attack... If you die... Then you have the consellation of knowing they have 3 min CD... Go find them and kill them... They can't pop it again for 3 mins

Could they up Merc healing?... Maybe... But that's not what you are asking for... Also Mercs are so mobile now I don't know what your complaint is about... I never stop moving on my Merc

Also remember no matter the healing ability or survivability of a class... A good player of any class will be hard to kill

Edited December 27, 2014 by Icykill_

[Capt_Beers]

Electro net stops Force Barrier... OK. However you have to know when they are going to do it in order for it to work and they can just use their Cc breaker and FB anyway. In a frantic battle you just aren't going to know. You're not psychic. Time your electro net wrong and it will just bounce off the barrier... Because it makes them immune to Everything!!!! It's a retarded powerful ability. I've cast electro net on them coming out of FB and it doesn't seem to affect them. They just bubble and running away.

 

Playing against 2-4 sorcs (average amount) in 8m and the amount of force barriers you see through the course of a match is stupid. Why was this much survivability given to sorcs but other classes were just ignored...it's laughable when you compare sorc to merc. Sorc is superior in every way. Healing, damage, mobility, survivability...

 

Dealing with constant force barriers has made pvp more frustrating than fun.

 

You're talking about regs. Everyone else is talking about ranked.

 

I mentioned them using breaker in my post. Once they are without those 2 CD's they have blown their load and will become very dependent on their team.

 

As for "You don't know when they will use", you don't know when anyone will use anything. You could fire net right as a Sin Shrouds (I have wasted nets like this) or as a Jugg uses ED. That's the nature of PvP it's a highly dynamic environment.

 

But E-Net is a totally viable counter to barrier. Just because you have to anticipate the right time to use it doesn't mean it's not a counter.

[Malifor]

I think the ability is fine how it is, but the majority of people seem to disagree. Maybe if they just reduced the duration enough so that they have less time to receive support people wouldn't be so annoyed by it.

[Belpheghor]

It is fine but it should have like a 10 min cd 3 mins is way to short considering they can heal escape stun bubble. Longer cd so they have to use it more carefully or skillfully.

 

10 is too short, give it a 2 hour CD minimum. Well, maybe a 6 hour minimum.

[Capt_Beers]

I think the ability is fine how it is, but the majority of people seem to disagree. Maybe if they just reduced the duration enough so that they have less time to receive support people wouldn't be so annoyed by it.

 

Majority of the ~2% of people on the forums*

[Belpheghor]

I cannot believe you guys are still crying over Sorc force barrier lol. Sorc are NOT that tough to deal with. Their dots are the toughest thing to survive.

 

If you wanna *****, ***** about AP PT ridiculous burst.

[Saikochoro]

I would change my sage's force barrier for heavy armor, adrenalin rush and reactiv shield any time!

You know it's not that funny, to stand like a diik in the wedding for 6 sec totally static, without able to do anything and making the ranked match 3v4 for your team... but Sage don't have any other option to do : /

 

adrenalin rush with reactiv shield heal 3× the amount what force barrier can with life ward and you don't need a talent for it, and the most important, you can act till it's active, or even make you immune to interrupts with combat shield talent.

 

So I should say, yes, it would be cool if BW would change that : )

 

And if you mean, that till 8v8 you can ingnor dmg for 6 sec, so your team have time to reborn and you can interrupt till that time in any sec, then it's true.. but in this case we should delet Awe, guarded by the force, all hide in plane side skills, resilience, dodge, deflection.... and many more!

 

I wouldn't trade. There is a reason mercs are focused before sorcs most of the time. Saying their defenses are better is laughable.

[Saikochoro]

Yeah, the only actual defensive cooldown sorc has needs to go, you clearly know what you are talking about

 

It's not their only defense. If you really played sorcs a lot you should know this. I shouldn't need to detail everything else they have. But if you need me to just ask.

[Saikochoro]

Force barrier is a 10 second, self-CC. How is it even in the same league as abilities like force cloak, which not only save your life, but allow you to keep moving, invisibly? If you were the last combatant when you cloaked, you can then put them to sleep to prevent objective caps. Force barrier is a 2nd rate ability at best. It's fine as it is.

 

There is the self cc comment again. Seeing as how the sin can't do anything after escaping combat besides run it is effectively also a self cc. The escape doesn't heal them to full. The escape doesn't give the a massive absorption bubble. The escape doesn't give them any sort of interrupt immunity (not that they reall need it). To do any of those things they would have to exit stealth hence ending the benefit. Same thing a sorc has to do, except they are now at full health, have absorption bubble, and interrupt immunity. Not seeing how it is a second rate ability.

[alexsamma]

Uh.. when people say like "Man, sorcs are so tanky now, OMG wow!!!" - I don't get it. Is it, like, about sorcs in general, about sorcs in WZs, or about sorcs in Arena?

I recently started to play R-Arenas in 3.0 - I played alot in Vanilla and a few months in early RoTHC, may be till june-july - so I never actually witnessed arenas. Only Reg version of it recently. And was like, boy, I'm doing fine, I should try ranked!

 

So, in ranked, even with barrier, even with a heal (it's actually <60% hp heal - depends on how long you channel the barrier and how long they let you have the secondary shield after) the pressure is SO intenese, so I had to take that +25% dmg reduction for 6s (45s cd) on use of threat-reduction ability (Cloud Mind). Which is like ~57-58% mitigation with PvP adrenal.

And still that doesn't help THAT much. So when buffs expire, I have to barrier [and\or] run around and heal myself [and\or] or die. Which means I don't do damage.

I'm probably doing something wrong*, but I honestly don't know how sorc can survive 2+ decent dps on him in Ranked Arena. WHILE not running like a headless chicken and doing something useful for a team.

 

I still have a feeling, when we lose, that we lost because of me being too squishy. Because I can't passively tank even A BIT of damage (except those 6s+adrenal), while doing dps myself - I either should actively defend myself, or do damage. (While mentioned sins/juggs/pts can and will continue to do damage, even while being focused hard).

 

* - I tried to google it - how to survive arena as a sorc: guides, videos, twitch translations, stuff like that. Even tried a forum search - nothing. Seems like noone playing sorc in 3.0. So if any of you have any info I'd be much thankful if you share it.

 

As a sorc your best bet is to have two mind sets:

 

1: No one is bothering me, I'm going to freecast, and use gcds where I do not have a proc to bubble teammates because they all do better burst damage than me; I'll also pull a weak teammate and off heal if he is worth saving.

 

2:Oh ****, the enemy team knows that I can do damage and use my utility, they are going to ride me hard so I'm going to kite, heal myself, and only do damage when I have instant cast procs - my only goal is to survive long enough for my team to kill one of them before they kill me.

 

If you're a good sorc dps you'll quickly find yourself focused in every match, so you had better get good at #2 if you want to be successful.

Edited December 27, 2014 by alexsamma

[alexsamma]

There is the self cc comment again. Seeing as how the sin can't do anything after escaping combat besides run it is effectively also a self cc. The escape doesn't heal them to full. The escape doesn't give the a massive absorption bubble. The escape doesn't give them any sort of interrupt immunity (not that they reall need it). To do any of those things they would have to exit stealth hence ending the benefit. Same thing a sorc has to do, except they are now at full health, have absorption bubble, and interrupt immunity. Not seeing how it is a second rate ability.

 

Or they could be smart and phase walk + self heal; alternatively there are times when you only need a few more seconds for a dcd to come off cd and combat stealth is perfect for that.

 

Combat stealth also resets medpack and adrenal, purges all negative effects (second shroud),and allows the sin to use spike.

 

And you're totally ignoring the fact that it is much easier to push a sorc to barrier than it is to make a sin combat stealth.

[Saikochoro]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying sin escape ability isn't powerful. Not saying it is second rate. It is a good cooldown. But saying that barrier is second rate is just not true. It's is an incredibly powerful cooldown.

[Astrona]

As a sorc your best bet is to have two mind sets:

 

1: No one is bothering me, I'm going to freecast, and use gcds where I do not have a proc to bubble teammates because they all do better burst damage than me; I'll also pull a weak teammate and off heal if he is worth saving.

 

2:Oh ****, the enemy team knows that I can do damage and use my utility, they are going to ride me hard so I'm going to kite, heal myself, and only do damage when I have instant cast procs - my only goal is to survive long enough for my team to kill one of them before they kill me.

 

If you're a good sorc dps you'll quickly find yourself focused in every match, so you had better get good at #2 if you want to be successful.

 

Uh.. mindset 1 - idk, I'm fairly happy with my burst damage. Though, I still throw offheals and shields and pull people from time to time. And I'm more than happy with my AoE dmg.

So, mindset 1.5 - noone's bothering me, and I rek their entire team with recklesness+force storm. But that is very rarely a case though, because -->

Yeah, mindset 2. In 4-5 cases out of 10 enemy team knows that I can do that 1.5 thing before the game even starts. In 9-10 cases out of 10 they know it after 1st round. So, about that:

 

Am I going to kite? Uh.. yeah, sure. So, sin opens at me, spikes me and does those real nasty things behind my butt (read: maul). So I'm like "OH SHI*! Gotta run". After 2s of force speed shien jugg jumps on me and starts channeling Ravage, while yelling "Want to knock me back, kid? HAHA Unstoppable 4 seconds! Try harder lel !!1" So.. yeah.. full Ravage it is.. and may be an Impale on top xD And then there goes sin, who was sprinting after me..

Mentioned (example) process will bring me down to like 10%, if not kill me outright. And it doesn't require any significant efforts to do for them and is 100% unavoidable for me.

So, yeah, what do you mean by "kite * "?

 

* - Don't get me wrong, I know what "kite" is and don't have any troubles with staying alive 1v1, when I'm not forced to use my root-breaking sprint before jugg jumps on me. Or in 8v8, when people will just switch to some less mobile target instead (/wave merx ). But in 4v4 it's like "Hur Durr lets just fu**ing paintrain dat sorc till he ded lel"

 

P.S.

Even when I actually do manage to drop them off and run away and heal myself a bit, it usually ends like this:

-Me: "Uh.. Look, guys, I'm full again! Lets kill baddies!!! :3"

-Enemy sin saberstaff, somewhere nearby: *WJJJJ*

-Me: "Um.. guys, where are you? =("

-Enemy PT: "Ho-ho, dem friends of yer 'r long ded, lel! *GRAPPLE*"

 

So idk...

Edited December 27, 2014 by Astrona

[Selenial]

Out of curosity what utilities do you take? Like I said I don't play my Sage that often and never in ranked so I was only tlaking about number not practicality.

 

I switch it based on who's in queue. Generally I'll take the Force Wave heal, 10% Heals taken increase and the 3% DR. However if it's been 3dps 1 Healer games with a lot of PT's (Whose dps I can predict) I'll take Humility because I can find more use for it.

 

Then after that I'll really go for what I think is useful against the compositions I'm seeing. Obviously against a lot of sorcs there's no use for force wave root, but melee I'll take it. Force bubble stun is great. Egress and Force Mobility are a must.

 

So really the final extra point comes down to force wave root or one of the masterfuls like the instant lift (though I rarely take that) or the oh so debated barrier heal.