Utilities and Combat discipline Need a change

[DarkNecroCrusher]

Dear BW devs,

 

I'm doing this little thread to ask for some love to sentinels after the 3.0 earlier access.

 

 

First of all, our utilities :

 

We have too much utilities relying on the same ability :

 

- 4 about Rebuke

- 2 about Pacify

- 2 about Force Leap

- 2 about Force Camouflage

- 2 about Guarded by the Force

- 2 about Leg Slash

 

It represents 14 utilities on our 21 utilities in total.

 

It really feels like we have no real diversity in our utilities and that the distribution in the different utility trees is not balanced.

 

1) Defensive Forms should be an advanced class base line passive ability, like every other advanced class has for their combat forms or cells and should be replaced by Jedi Promulgator (moved frome the masterful tree).

 

2) Jedi Crusader is not incentive at all because we have Defiance just next to it : 1 Focus when hit every 3 seconds against 4 Focus when we take a CC, the choice is easy to make for a highly CC vulnerable class.

 

 

Jedi Crusader should be merged with Jedi Enforcer to make it useful and more incentive to take (but only after removing the 15% additional damage on Rebuke which is really useless).

 

Then move Displacement (from the masterful tree) where Jedi Crusader was.

 

Like this, all Rebuke utilities would be in the skillful tree and we would have 3 utilities about Rebuke instead of 4.

 

We would also have 2 slots empty in our masterful tree now.

 

 

3) The new Just Pursuit

could be moved from heroic to masterful to give us the choice between root+slow or 2 slows in the masterful tree.

 

It also needs a change because of the clunky way it's working now.

 

It should change from two leg slash to only one, but with a lower cost reduction (like 1 less instead of 2).

 

 

4) Create a new utility for the masterful tree around Sabre Reflect cooldown,

reducing it by 1 second when attacked with a 1.5 seconds internal cooldown, like other classes have on one of their defensive cooldown (we and guardians have a 3 minutes defensive cooldown lasting only 12 seconds).

 

 

 

We now have a more balanced skillful and masterful tree.

 

The majority of our Heroic utilities doesn't feel heroic at all or incentive to take, and even more when you look at what you gave to other classes.

 

 

5) The Contemplation centering thing should be a base line advanced class passive ability.

The centering system is something really specific to sentinels, and building them while preparing for the fight should not be an utility.

 

Keep the Awe cooldown reduction though, and add something allowing us to use it while stunned.

 

 

6) Expunging Camouflage really miss something to be incentive,

adding a cooldown reduction on Force Camouflage would do the job, like by 10 or 15 seconds.

 

 

7) Guarded by the Force utilities don't justify to put a point in it.

 

 

Just add to Force Aegis a 50% life cost reduction at the end of the effect (25% current health cost instead of 50%), since we can still be stunned, rooted, slowed, during the 6 seconds.

 

Then add a CC immunity to Enduring. We will still lose 50% health, which is huge, and even more at the end of the effect, but with a lower cooldown and a chance to prevent from beeing stunned, rooted, slowed, bumped during a such punitive defensive cooldown lasting only 4 seconds.

 

 

8) The healing on Zealous Ward is too low considering the huge damage we take from attacks now.

 

 

With 45k health, 3% represents a 1350 heal only every 1.5 seconds.

 

Buff it at least to 5% (2250 heal with 45k health) considering its huge 3 minutes cooldown.

 

 

9) For the last empty heroic slot, we have to think about something useful but not overpowered.

 

 

Giving 2 or 3 charges more to Zen would be the best thing ever.

 

 

With all of this, the utilities for Sentinels/Marauders would be balanced and incentive to take, with real choices to make.

 

 

Combat Discipline :

 

Watchman and Concentration disciplines are for me well balanced when compared to the other classes changes.

 

The new skills added to them really fits with their respective gameplay and themes, and make them powerful, fun and incentive to play (regardless to the animations).

 

BW talked about the DPS on a dummy, and said that the Combat spec was behind in comparison to the two others.

 

Combat spec has a lower DPS because something is missing.

 

We lost Riposte, Cauterize and Crippling Throw (replaced by Leg Slash, almost, not exactly).

 

DPS is lower, because we are missing another new skill in our rotation, especially because of the changes to Precision duration.

 

We are forced to use Blade Rush again and again to wait for our CD to be up again, and it's a real loss in our DPS.

 

Also, we have now 3 holes in our action bars in Combat, when we have just enough place for the skills with the two other disciplines, which means less skills than before to use.

 

1) Blade Rush "effect" (auto Ataru proc) should be transfered to a passive skill in the discipline, now applying the auto Ataru proc to the Slash.

 

 

The effect of the passive skill Ataru Mastery could be replaced by this (an additional 5% is nothing on a ~1k hit) cause it will respect the theme of the passive skill.

 

Then, Blade Rush could be reworked to be another decent hitting skill with an appropriate cooldown (10-12 seconds).

 

It could be :

 

- a 10m range attack, like another short double sabre throw

- a real 4m range acrobatic attack, like a jumping front tailspin/wheel, hitting with both sabers

 

 

 

 

Please feel free to comment, criticise, argue and give your thoughts or changes that could be made about these ideas.

 

Really hope BW will read this.

Edited December 18, 2014 by DarkNecroCrusher

[The_X]

I only understood half of that cause yer a dirty pub.. but yeah. The Utilities are totally borked, the loss of Deadly Throw and Retaliation was a huge hit and Gore needs to be at least 4 seconds to account for server lag. I've been Carnage since launch and its a hot mess now. In order to even come close to having what I had before, I can't even take their fancy new cleanse or get the stupid root on the useless melee ability. (Hey, BW, no sorc is gonna stand still long enough for me to hit em with two leg slashes! Oh, wait, I forgot, nobody cares about PVP.) The one ability I was hoping would make it into the Utility sillyness was the Annihilation power that refunded spent rage. Didn't get that one. Thanks. Guess that justifies your nonsense opinion that Retaliation wasn't an effective use of Rage and was only used by "fringe" players. Yeah. Im insulted. Glad I know where I stand with you now, Devs. Fringe indeed.

 

One thing that nobody really mentions much because CARNAGE IS SUCH A MESS.... WHY would you replace Force Scream?! WHY?!? "Oh, here's a new ability for you.. well, its not new, it just replaces one of your favorite powers and is so much better than you're forced to choose it. Suck on that you filthy marauder!"

 

What did we lose? Ranged root. Instant burst damage. Armor penetration duration. Speed. A very satisfying roar. A DoT for those pesky stealthers and a GREAT rotation filler. What did we gain? ...nothing. We get ONE ability that REPLACES one we all love. We weren't "given" anything but the option to choose to ignore abilities we always had to pick up a self cleanse or get the laughable melee range root IF we're lucky enough to be able to hit them twice. (LMAO Never gonna happen against anyone who can play)

 

BW, you've got 11 days as of this posting to make some sort of comment on the immediate future of this class before my sub runs out because as it stands now... after paying in advance for this huge slap to the face (...fringe? REALLY?!) I will never give you another dollar for as long as I live.

[DarkNecroCrusher]

I have not created this thread for it to become a ranting one.

 

All of this are ideas and suggestions about the way to balance the Combat discipline with the two others and to improve the QoL and the incentive of the sentinel utilities.

 

All you're saying here has been told to the devs since the first day they made the sentinel changes dev blog.

 

Ranting and beeing aggressive or insulting will not change our problems, and will even make the devs fly away from this thread without reading it.

Edited December 5, 2014 by DarkNecroCrusher

[BDragonSith]

Maybe I'm some kind of weird exception, but it seems like my experience with the Carnage Discipline is vastly different from everyone else's and makes perfect sense to me. Keep in mind, I've only played this game for a month and I'm moving into this game from KOTOR 1 & 2.

(In Sith terms)

- Cauterize, Crippling Throw, and Riposte were very underused in my experience because they didn't deal very much damage and didn't really seem to be benefited by Ataru form. The new skill, Massacre, I absolutely love because I don't have to rely solely on Ravage now for a solid high damage ability.

- Moving on from Massacre, it gives you an extra 30% chance to activate an Ataru move whist automatically performing one with its use. For me, this gives me 'Execute' to boost my Force Scream ability which I usually follow up with Viscious Slash.

- If what I'm fighting is still alive, I can hit it with Ravage and then repeat the process. Also, I can use Force choke, Slash, or "Assault?" (can't remember the name of it: builds a bunch of Rage when used)

 

This is just my take on it, though. It feels a lot closer to my Sentinel from the old KOTOR games and plays kinda similar.

[Aluvi]

Maybe I'm some kind of weird exception, but it seems like my experience with the Carnage Discipline is vastly different from everyone else's and makes perfect sense to me. Keep in mind, I've only played this game for a month and I'm moving into this game from KOTOR 1 & 2.

(In Sith terms)

- Cauterize, Crippling Throw, and Riposte were very underused in my experience because they didn't deal very much damage and didn't really seem to be benefited by Ataru form. The new skill, Massacre, I absolutely love because I don't have to rely solely on Ravage now for a solid high damage ability.

- Moving on from Massacre, it gives you an extra 30% chance to activate an Ataru move whist automatically performing one with its use. For me, this gives me 'Execute' to boost my Force Scream ability which I usually follow up with Viscious Slash.

- If what I'm fighting is still alive, I can hit it with Ravage and then repeat the process. Also, I can use Force choke, Slash, or "Assault?" (can't remember the name of it: builds a bunch of Rage when used)

 

This is just my take on it, though. It feels a lot closer to my Sentinel from the old KOTOR games and plays kinda similar.

 

Are you... uhh.. are you high?

 

Maybe I'm some kind of weird exception, but it seems like my experience with the Carnage Discipline is vastly different from everyone else's and makes perfect sense to me. Keep in mind, I've only played this game for a month and I'm moving into this game from KOTOR 1 & 2.

 

So.. translation = I'm a new player and I don't know much about this class, and I haven't played other classes enough to know where they stand in comparison to other classes. Not trying to be insulting. So yes, you're a new, casual player.

 

Cauterize, Crippling Throw, and Riposte were very underused in my experience because they didn't deal very much damage and didn't really seem to be benefited by Ataru form. The new skill, Massacre, I absolutely love because I don't have to rely solely on Ravage now for a solid high damage ability.

 

OK let me break down situational use of these abilities.

 

Cauterize - you use this if you think a stealther might try to stealth mid fight. It will pop a stealther when they take dot damage. Because it's a dot, it also has very good damage : rage cost, as in it does good damage for the amount of rage used, although it's probably worth noting that Massacre is likely a better use of the GCD since it got buffed.

 

Crippling Throw - Dude I cry on the inside a little bit every time I'm knocked out of range or can't catch a kiting ranged player in PvP. This was our medium ranged gap closer, and to boot it did a tiny healing debuff which was helpful. So many uses for this in PvP. Need to catch someone? Crippling Throw root. Need to peel for your healer? Crip Throw the dps chasing him. Knocked back and rooted / slowed and trying to get to the player? Crip throw / Dual saber throw. I used this ability so much in pvp, and my muscle memory still hasn't gotten used to it not being there. I'm constantly trying to use it and it makes me so sad and angry every time I press that key and nothing happens. It's literally like cutting off one of my in game fingers.

 

Riposte - Use if it's up during a Gore window. No brainer. It does good damage and it's off the GCD, so you use it during a gore window. Never use it outside of a Gore window unless you have excess Rage.

 

Massacre This is not a new skill. I can only assume you are like level 30 and just hadn't gotten it yet through the talent tree, but now you get it automatically through the Discipline system.

 

- Moving on from Massacre, it gives you an extra 30% chance to activate an Ataru move whist automatically performing one with its use. For me, this gives me 'Execute' to boost my Force Scream ability which I usually follow up with Viscious Slash.

 

What's your point? That they didn't make the spec even more useless by removing another core mechanic? Well, good job to BioWare then, you only partially crippled the spec.

 

- If what I'm fighting is still alive, I can hit it with Ravage and then repeat the process. Also, I can use Force choke, Slash, or "Assault?" (can't remember the name of it: builds a bunch of Rage when used)

 

Holy crap so if something is still alive you can use your basic crappy attacks and do damage to it? Congratulations. Oh man that Battering Assault ability, gee wilikers when it fills half of my Rage bar I get so happy. So.. again, good job to BioWare for not just deleting the class I guess?

 

Please do not comment on things that you don't understand. The spec is not fine. It's had it's balls chopped off as surely as Rage did when they nerfed it and then proceeded to buff EVERY other class in the game, making it one of the worst specs for PvP. Combat was ALL THAT WE HAD LEFT for pvp. Now we have nothing. Focus / Fury spec is good, but it's a completely different playstyle, and frankly, one that Juggernauts / Guardians play far far better due to their better cooldowns, utility, rotation, and superior damage output.

 

BioWare has even admitted that Combat / Carnage is performing waaaay under par, even on dummies for PvE content, but they don't know how to fix it. Really? You fix it by NOT FREAKING NERFING GORE. By NOT TAKING AWAY EVERY USEFUL UTILITY. By NOT FORCING US TO TAKE UTILITIES THAT WE GOT AS PART OF OUR BASIC COMBAT / CARNAGE TALENT SPEC. We can't even think about taking any of the new "good" utlities in the Heroic / Masterful trees, because we have to use all of our points just to get our spec to SOME resemblance of what it USED to be. You done F'd up BioWare. You F'd up so incredibly bad that I want an apology. Hell, the warrior class lead DIDN'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT HALF OF THESE CHANGES until the night before they did the Sentinel / Marauder live stream.

 

Our class is a joke, and EVERYONE knows it. Why all the hate for this class BioWare? I was so excited for the changes that were datamined, and instead, you have effectively taken a big steaming crap on our class.

[Aluvi]

As for the OP:

 

I think these are all good, balanced, and interesting changes that would help put the spec back to where it should be without making it overpowered. I don't know if it would be enough (considering I'm consistently seeing (in pvp) Sorcs pull 2k+ dps and PTs hit 1700+ as single target), but it might be a start.

 

I completely agree - some of those Utilities should be baseline passives for the class, period. Turning talents that were 100% mandatory for the spec to function properly into Utilities that you have to choose is just silly. Taking away Crip Throw was silly. Taking away Riposte was silly. I could go on but this is going to turn into a rant very quickly, so I'll stop.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Aluvi

[BDragonSith]

Are you... uhh.. are you high?

 

 

 

So.. translation = I'm a new player and I don't know much about this class, and I haven't played other classes enough to know where they stand in comparison to other classes. Not trying to be insulting. So yes, you're a new, casual player.

 

 

 

OK let me break down situational use of these abilities.

 

Cauterize - you use this if you think a stealther might try to stealth mid fight. It will pop a stealther when they take dot damage. Because it's a dot, it also has very good damage : rage cost, as in it does good damage for the amount of rage used, although it's probably worth noting that Massacre is likely a better use of the GCD since it got buffed.

 

Crippling Throw - Dude I cry on the inside a little bit every time I'm knocked out of range or can't catch a kiting ranged player in PvP. This was our medium ranged gap closer, and to boot it did a tiny healing debuff which was helpful. So many uses for this in PvP. Need to catch someone? Crippling Throw root. Need to peel for your healer? Crip Throw the dps chasing him. Knocked back and rooted / slowed and trying to get to the player? Crip throw / Dual saber throw. I used this ability so much in pvp, and my muscle memory still hasn't gotten used to it not being there. I'm constantly trying to use it and it makes me so sad and angry every time I press that key and nothing happens. It's literally like cutting off one of my in game fingers.

 

Riposte - Use if it's up during a Gore window. No brainer. It does good damage and it's off the GCD, so you use it during a gore window. Never use it outside of a Gore window unless you have excess Rage.

 

Massacre This is not a new skill. I can only assume you are like level 30 and just hadn't gotten it yet through the talent tree, but now you get it automatically through the Discipline system.

 

 

 

What's your point? That they didn't make the spec even more useless by removing another core mechanic? Well, good job to BioWare then, you only partially crippled the spec.

 

 

 

Holy crap so if something is still alive you can use your basic crappy attacks and do damage to it? Congratulations. Oh man that Battering Assault ability, gee wilikers when it fills half of my Rage bar I get so happy. So.. again, good job to BioWare for not just deleting the class I guess?

 

Please do not comment on things that you don't understand. The spec is not fine. It's had it's balls chopped off as surely as Rage did when they nerfed it and then proceeded to buff EVERY other class in the game, making it one of the worst specs for PvP. Combat was ALL THAT WE HAD LEFT for pvp. Now we have nothing. Focus / Fury spec is good, but it's a completely different playstyle, and frankly, one that Juggernauts / Guardians play far far better due to their better cooldowns, utility, rotation, and superior damage output.

 

BioWare has even admitted that Combat / Carnage is performing waaaay under par, even on dummies for PvE content, but they don't know how to fix it. Really? You fix it by NOT FREAKING NERFING GORE. By NOT TAKING AWAY EVERY USEFUL UTILITY. By NOT FORCING US TO TAKE UTILITIES THAT WE GOT AS PART OF OUR BASIC COMBAT / CARNAGE TALENT SPEC. We can't even think about taking any of the new "good" utlities in the Heroic / Masterful trees, because we have to use all of our points just to get our spec to SOME resemblance of what it USED to be. You done F'd up BioWare. You F'd up so incredibly bad that I want an apology. Hell, the warrior class lead DIDN'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT HALF OF THESE CHANGES until the night before they did the Sentinel / Marauder live stream.

 

Our class is a joke, and EVERYONE knows it. Why all the hate for this class BioWare? I was so excited for the changes that were datamined, and instead, you have effectively taken a big steaming crap on our class.

 

...OK. Let's all just take a deep breath and calm down. I don't PvP and yes, I'm at lvl.30. I was only stating my experience thus far. I'm not saying that I'm right, its just what it seems like from my point of view.

[Aluvi]

...OK. Let's all just take a deep breath and calm down. I don't PvP and yes, I'm at lvl.30. I was only stating my experience thus far. I'm not saying that I'm right, its just what it seems like from my point of view.

 

In an MMO, class balance does not really matter until level cap. A class is only fully realized when they have all of their tools. A level 30 class functions completely differently from a lvl 60 one.

 

To put this into perspective, you saying that the class is OK, when you are only level 30 and don't have any other max level characters is kind of like.. let me give you an analogy:

 

If I walk into a car dealership to buy a car, and I'm trying things out and comparing cars, and I just walk by a car, and maybe sit in the drivers seat, without knowing anything about it.. without test driving it, without asking any questions, with no prior knowledge, and I say "well, this car can drive on roads and stuff. It uses fuel and goes places and things. Looks like it has a radio, and the seat is acceptably comfortable. Looks like this is a great, well rounded vehicle that anyone would be happy to buy and use", THAT is what you are saying about the Marauder class, and to a veteran like myself that has been playing this class and been through every iteration of every spec, plus played 6 other ACs extensively at level cap, it is rather uninformed. What about the gas mileage? Acceleration speed? Reliability? Crash testing rating? Is it front, back,4 wheel or all wheel drive? Does it have 4W drive as an option? How many miles are on it? How does it FEEL driving it? When you're making judgements based on only being level 30, you're ignoring all of that. Not only do you not contribute to the solution, but you add to the problem by adding in an opinion that does not have all the facts.

 

Let me give one last comparison:

 

It's about the same as Jenny McCarthy telling us that vaccinations are bad and cause autism. Is she a scientist? No. Did she do extensive research by reading medical journals and reading real scientists research papers? No. She came to the conclusion after reading one scientific report that was retracted very soon after it was published that found a link between autism and vaccinations. She didn't see the whole picture, yet she felt that she was qualified to get people to spend millions of dollars blaming vaccinations for autism, and causing the general public to stop getting their kids vaccinated, and what do we get? Outbreaks in diseases that we have long thought were dead due to vaccinations.

[BDragonSith]

In an MMO, class balance does not really matter until level cap. A class is only fully realized when they have all of their tools. A level 30 class functions completely differently from a lvl 60 one.

 

That doesn't change the fact that new players are going to feel the same way I do.

[The_X]

That doesn't change the fact that new players are going to feel the same way I do.

 

Soooo... the people who have been here paying for the game since launch and KNOW that their class has been destroyed don't matter? Cool.

[Vodrin]

While I agree with Aluvian on a great deal of what he said, combat damage is better now than I thought it would be with the reduced PS windows. MS + CB + auto crit dispatch is better than anything you could put into a PS windo previously for damage. And the fact you can now use it every other PS window makes for greatly improved damage. Also the fact that you now have a hard stun with force stasis is a big improvement.

 

With all of this there are some significant problems I still see with the class. First off the loss of crippling throw is significant. Right now the work around to counter kiters in that 0-10 m range is to use force stasis. I much prefer to use it offensively however so this is not really practical. Another option is to spec for the snare on CB and force leap in the utilities. But this forces you to use one of your primary burst tools as a snare. This is a major DPS loss. Pretty much every other class gets a ranged option to use on this type of close kiting that does not involve screwing up their DPS. Sent/mara needs something similar. Changing leg slash back to crippling throw and giving it the same function as leg slash currently but with a 10 second cooldown would be reasonable.

 

Next problem are options for countering snares and roots. Currently this requires heroic utilities. Expunging cammo is theretically good, but it currently is not removing roots and snares reliably. To be worth a heroic point this ability should cleanse and give immunity to roots and snares for the duration of cammo.

 

The other option for snares and roots is the carnage predation/combat trans option. Also theoretically good, but forces you to burn a potential zen burst phase to counter a root. All three sentinel specs are dependent on regularly using zen for good DPS. Again, other DPS classes do not have to sacrifice damage to counter kiting (see HTL for vanguards). I really think this utility should be moved to the master level considering what we give up by using it.

 

And finally as Aluvian said, things like defensive forms that are absolutely necessary for good PvP performance of all three specs should be rolled into the existing class passives and we should get other utilities instead that address some of the classes damage resistance issues. Damage is solid for sents, but god are we squishy.

[Mrdann]

i agree with Aluvian and what he said as well. this spec had its guts ripped out, we lost 4 abilities (if you count on the damage loss on PS) that were useful to us. That is a MAJOR fist in the gut, and what did we get? 1 ability thats a replacement to another one that is insulting

 

and one thing to bioware, YOU designed this spec, and as it stood out pre 3.0 its not OUR fault that you made a decent spec that could pile out obscene amounts of damage in such a short time. we were using the tools YOU GAVE US. The biggest thing that really got my goat was the fact that you do the blog and not even 3 days later EVERYTHING was wrong with it, and the info you gave us was out of date and just damn misleading

 

i think a way to make this spec fun is either

 

A: capitalize on the energy damage aspect of it. with new abilities

B: focus on the atrau form,

 

our biggest problem is the CC and kiting all it takes is one CC stun, or push and everything is ruined and we can't do anything because we are locked out and can't move. This is almost as bad and stupid as everyone purging a Paladins Seals (his main form of damage in wow) and that went on for 5 years.

 

bioware either give us some new abilities to replace what we lost or just redo the spec completely

Edited December 6, 2014 by Mrdann

[SolidJedi]

You bring some good points. I think there has to be a discussion about what they did to combat / carnage. When I read the changes, I thought "lets wait and see..." "Adapt and overcome". But man, did they did a number on the spec. They gave the other specs a new skill, we got a REPLACEMENT to Blade Storm / Force Scream. What else? Nothing. They took away crippling throw, and I have yet to read a good excuse for that. I understood Riposte, since it was situational in PvE and in PvP, sometimes it wasn't worth the focus / rage cost or you were using your PS/Gore window on something else. Cauterize, well yeah it was a burn and a main skill in a watchman rotation, but as Aluvi said, great for stealthers and low focus / rage cost for a bit of DPS filler. But we got no skills to replace any of those. We got a better Blade Storm / Force Scream (don't get me started on the animation...) but THAT'S IT. The other 2 specs got brand new abilities, we got nothing. AND then, to add insult to injury, they took the damage from Precision Strike / Gore, and made it into a 3 second window. You know how many PS windows I've been missing with all the lag in Yavin 4? Sure, PS/Gore wasn't a HUGE damage ability, but that's another DPS skill lost.

 

The spec feels worst off. Went into PvP, to see how it did, and man... Sure, Clashing Blast does nice damage, but you can't really hit someone with it when they run away and your silly leg slash isn't in range. And there goes your 3 second PS/Gore window... And yeah, my muscle memory still goes for the CT key, only to find NOTHING. So they took damage from Riposte, PS/Gore (lowering the AP window to boot), Crippling Throw (and its root, useful on so many levels), Cauterize DoT and DPS. And we got? A LOT less than the other 2 specs. At the moment I'm trying to get used to Watchman (feeling a bit focus starved and low, DAMN you Ataru Alacrity!) and Concentration, get a feel for them, but I have been Combat / Carnage for a long, long time, because I liked fast combat. Pop Zen, Leap, and destroy, confident I could counter everything my enemy could throw at me. Now I can't event throw a crippling /sigh... throw.

 

Hopefully they revisit some of the changes to the spec. As it is now, the spec has a lot of issues and most of the changes weren't needed. There is always room for improvement, but as of now, it doesn't seem that way. Others gained, we lost.

 

That doesn't change the fact that new players are going to feel the same way I do.

Not to be rude, but that's because new players don't know any better. To get the actual feel of any class, you need to have access to ALL it can bring, and test it in different scenarios, learning counters, tricks and building muscle memory. New players also DON'T know what they are missing. Your thoughts on CT, Cauterize and Riposte are perfect examples of a lack of knowledge in the class.

[DarkNecroCrusher]

I have tested combat with PvP gear, and all I can say is that the dps is correct but not as high as other squishy DPS specs.

 

And correct is not sufficient with what has been added or given to other classes/specs with 3.0 and what we don't have anymore.

 

We are even more squishy than before and even more vulnerable to roots, bumps, stuns or kitting tools other classes have.

 

Yes we have a great anti-root tool, but we have to sacrify our burst for it.

 

And our DCDs feel just like useless with all the debuffs, all the ranged instant casts and illimited dots we take in the face.

 

The new damage done with 3.0 without a damage mitigation boost is bringing PvP to be a real unplayable crap.

 

Time to kill full CD with 3.0 is almost the same than before without CD.

 

Having 45k HP doesn't change the fact that we take 10k to 14k hits all the time.

 

Because we have more damage thanks to the new stuff, but not more damage mitigation, even with a healer, we can't do anything when we take a 2-3 players focus, and it's worse if it's 2-3 players of the same class.

 

Balance is even worst than before and I really hope they will do something quickly to fix and balance this mess, otherwise I think we will have to wait on another game, me and my guild mates, for 6 months minimum.