DawnAskham Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) Why level 55? Would make more sense to do it at level 60. By the looks of it they use level 60 to do it. I'm not sure I follow... In every other game I've played where an expansion with a new level cap has been added, pre-existing content at the previous level cap remained at the same relative difficulty it did prior to the new expansion and level cap, even if adjustments and changes where done to absolute power or individual classes or such. A new player hitting the previous level cap (in this case level 55) after the expansion would be as powerful against level 55 content as players were prior to the new expansion, on a relative basis (e.g. TTK), even if their absolute damage numbers were lower. Or said another way - player power (dps / hps / hp) follows a curve that is aligned with a content power curve (mob health / mob damage). If the power curve gets too steep such that the growth of future power looks to exceed what the developer wants, the curve can be flattened by changing the top end (level 60) target down and then adjusting the points on the curve from 1-60. When doing so, the previous content power curve should be flattened as well to maintain relative power - that is a player at any point along the curve logs in the day after the change, and while their numbers are lower, their relative power against content at their level is the same. If however they change the top end damage target at 60 and flatten the power curve without changing pre-existing (e.g. 55 or lower) content, then players following along later will find the content to be more difficult than it is today as their relative power against content has been reduced. This also has the effect, which some of us believe is the real reason behind the change, of making current level 55 content more difficult such that it will require leveling to 60 and gaining new gear in order to complete at the same relative difficulty as today. Again, from experience, I've never had a game reduce absolute power without adjusting content such that old content becomes more difficult at the old level cap as that removes the illusion of players getting more powerful as they level and gear up, which removes a bit of the reason for playing these games in the first place. I like challenges. But old challenges beaten should stay in the past, and fade into obscurity run just for fun or achievements, not raised in difficulty to maintain progression relevance by reducing player power. New content with new challenges is what I expect, not recycled existing content made challenging by reducing player power without adjusting pre-existing content. Edited November 4, 2014 by DawnAskham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoop Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 You forgot the part about needing the new bis gear (2 tiers above 186), to be back to where you are today. We will be months away from being back to pre-patch numbers when this goes live. just a guess but i'd bet you are level 60 in about the time it would take to run the new planet quests and try the new ops. Hours not months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimvinny Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) I'm not sure I follow... Snip. New content with new challenges is what I expect, not recycled existing content made challenging by reducing player power without adjusting pre-existing content. Very well said. Your concerns and thoughts are exactly what mine are. I just haven't had time to write them all down so nicely. Edited November 4, 2014 by Jimvinny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 just a guess but i'd bet you are level 60 in about the time it would take to run the new planet quests and try the new ops. Hours not months 5 levels... As casual player, i'd say max two days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTap Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) just a guess but i'd bet you are level 60 in about the time it would take to run the new planet quests and try the new ops. Hours not months I more meant the gearing part, since they said you'd be doing similar damage using the new bis gear as we are now in 186. I'd guess most op groups gear first through sm ops (192?) and then have to gear through hm (198). Leveling won't take long at all Edited November 4, 2014 by KTap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 SNIP... New content with new challenges is what I expect, not recycled existing content made challenging by reducing player power without adjusting pre-existing content. Second that. ^ It's a bit odd design in this type of game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malastare Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Except that from what they have said, the first part of your statement will be true, but the latter is not. You don't know that. They never said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoop Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 they are releasing new content with new challenges, this will all be in near perfect balance with current 55's why the hell is everyone all bent out of shape about the stuff you have already finished (the old 55 content) getting ever so slightly harder is mind blowing. (simple solution to level up, problem solved) it's like everyone's brains turned off when they heard the numbers would go down day 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotharofxev Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 New content with new challenges is what I expect, not recycled existing content made challenging by reducing player power without adjusting pre-existing content. No more calls please, we have a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Except that from what they have said, the first part of your statement will be true, but the latter is not. ROFL indeed.missed the entire point, the above is a demonstration of the relativity between hp and dps. let me spell it out to you again with a different example. would you rather this? pre 3.0 you do 100dps, target has 1000hp, dies in 10 seconds post 3.0 you do 200dps, target has 4000hp, dies in 20 seconds. according to you, this is something to celebrate! wow your dps is double! lol all you seem to care about is the dps number. they are concerned with the time to kill the target. if you get your wish and see fancy higher numbers, they would have just attacked TTK differently. your inability to comprehend this is astounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malastare Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 it's like everyone's brains turned off when they heard the numbers would go down day 1 Some people measure their self-worth based upon raw damage numbers. If DPS was cut in half and all mob HP was cut in half, they would be sad that they were doing less damage. It's totally illogical, but there you are. Some people are illogical. For those of us who are, it's very difficult to discuss issues with them, as they are basing their argument on emotions, and we are basing them on logic. Essentially, we have a bunch of people on the forums who are exhibiting fear or panic responses. They don't really care about the facts as much as they care about being told in a way that makes them feel good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoop Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 No more calls please, we have a winner. the player chooses where to spend their time you seem to only be able to grasp running the old already existing 55 content as the only option in game. SPOILER ALERT there is new content in the xpac designed for the new skill trees and new player powers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotharofxev Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Essentially, we have a bunch of people on the forums who are exhibiting fear or panic responses. They don't really care about the facts as much as they care about being told in a way that makes them feel good. What part of raw numbers does not matter, but that our DPS is getting nerfed, not JUST by equipment, but by re-leveling do you not understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 New content with new challenges is what I expect, not recycled existing content made challenging by reducing player power without adjusting pre-existing content.you are getting new content and new challenges. i'm sure the 10 people out there that will care about dp/df after 3.0 will be really upset. no one is asking tyou to do dp/df ever again. they are obsolete. gone. finished. bubye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoop Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 missed the entire point, the above is a demonstration of the relativity between hp and dps. let me spell it out to you again with a different example. would you rather this? pre 3.0 you do 100dps, target has 1000hp, dies in 10 seconds post 3.0 you do 200dps, target has 4000hp, dies in 20 seconds. according to you, this is something to celebrate! wow your dps is double! lol all you seem to care about is the dps number. they are concerned with the time to kill the target. if you get your wish and see fancy higher numbers, they would have just attacked TTK differently. your inability to comprehend this is astounding. this guy gets it^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoop Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 What part of raw numbers does not matter, but that our DPS is getting nerfed, not JUST by equipment, but by re-leveling do you not understand? what part of our dps need to get nerfed are you not understanding? TTK is too damm fast, they are FIXING it, making the world a better place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimvinny Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 what part of our dps need to get nerfed are you not understanding? TTK is too damm fast, they are FIXING it, making the world a better place Ttk is too fast? Go do nim brontes or council in mostly 180's, and see if you still feel like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Ttk is too fast? Go do nim brontes or council in mostly 180's, and see if you still feel like that.i think its cute that you think your opinion matters more than the devs' it doesnt matter if you think it's long. they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 They are improving the core combat mechanics more than they are taking away my individual power to kill trash mobs. Have you looked at Disciplines and what it actually means for hybrid classes BioWare can't balance for? That isn't improving core combat mechanics, that's simply removing variables BioWare didn't account for and don't have the resources to try to balance for. Mitigated by adding raid wide buffs (alacrity, seriously? 3rd time lucky maybe ), adjustijng abilities across classes. All the balancing they really needed to do DPS wise was per class. Not a complete all classes DPS nerf to keep you fairly static. They could quite easily have limited each classes DPS output to be fairly level and within a % variance upon hitting level 60, without actually reducing every classes DPS upon the 3.0 introduction. They've already taken steps to remove the variables and it would have been a more consistent form of progression, not regression to progress back to close to what they were. Then it would have been a case of developing the new operations around the DPS % levels they were aiming for (perhaps taking the opportunity of making sure it had to be a mix of classes for use of the new raid wide buffs). Instead they've decided they want to keep DF / DP in play by nerfing your DPS and push it as having new drops (content). Instead of doing the class balance (easier - Disciplines + new level cap) and creating new fresh content after 3.0 hits. Players are happy with this approach? Next they'll start to reskin OPs and start calling it new content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotharofxev Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 i think its cute that you think your opinion matters more than the devs' it doesnt matter if you think it's long. they don't. The same Devs who got the game INTO this situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 The same Devs who got the game INTO this situation?right so i guess that instead of trying to fix the game, they should do nothing and play candycrush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malastare Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 The same Devs who got the game INTO this situation? Yes. They still know far more about game design and software development than the people complaining in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) what part of our dps need to get nerfed are you not understanding? TTK is too damm fast, they are FIXING it, making the world a better place where exactly did you get this idea? some classes in 186 in NIM df/dp were doing too much damage. a very small % of the playerbase. ttk was not too fast for 99.9% of the player base. the devs are swatting a fly with a sledgehammer. they do that entirely too much and dont really care about the consequences. Edited November 4, 2014 by ivanhedgehog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 right so i guess that instead of trying to fix the game, they should do nothing and play candycrush Well, if you thought this was fixing anything then yea, candy crush should be in your future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 where exactly did you get this idea? some classes in 186 in NIM df/dp were doing too much damage. avery small % or the playerbase. ttk was not too fast for 99.9% of the playerbase. the devs are swatting a fly with a sledgehammer. the do that entirely too much and dont really care about the consequences.so you're in beta then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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