1v1 (duels) vs WZ's

[Scarab_]

How do you guys think Mara's perform in general (and you personally) in Duels vs WZ's? Do you think there's much of a difference? Do you change tactics and play-style etc?

 

I'm asking because personally I really like my Mara right now in WZ's but duels really aren't my thing. It seems odd to me because I'm NOT one of those mara's who runs around a WZ spreading soft dmg from target to target. Quite the opposite, I'm all about the kill. That means I end up in plenty of 1v1 situations within a WZ and yet still do well. I usually end up with some solo kills and as much dmg and killing blows as possible.

 

Duels seem to vex me a bit tho, some classes more than others. I'm often very close to winning, but i find it very frustrating to survive thru all the CD's, stuns n KB's, when they can use them all at once in a short period against me. Any thoughts?

Edited October 17, 2014 by Scarab_

[DeltaThreeEight]

As a long time player of the Sentinel class, I feel like I can bring you a answer. For Duels vs Warzones with Sentinel/Marauders, I feel they shine best in 1 vs 1 duels against most enemies. This is because in Warzones, as a dual-wielding maniac you stand out in the crowd so you are quickly targeted and killed. However! In 1v1 duels, it's just you, and your opponent, this means you are free to jump on them and proceed to decorate their face with saber burns.

 

In my experiences as a duelist while playing Sentinel, I've found I'm able to beat, (by usually a big spread of HP), people who are better geared then me. This is typically done while in the Watchman spec. This is because of your three amazing defensive buffs. Rebuke, Saber Ward, and Guarded by the Force. Saber Ward, while in Watchman Spec, actually heals you when you get hit, and your burn crits, (which can't be cleansed in Watchman Spec), heal you as well, your Zen Mode makes all your burn dots crit automatically, and your Merciless Slash has a 6 second cooldown after being fully revved up after 4 strikes, (provided they're still alive after that), Merciless Slash after having 6 Juyo Stacks tends to hit between 8-9k damage, depending on your gear, (may go higher, I'm not in full 180 gear nor do I have full 162 pvp gear yet), and Master Strike with 6 stacks of Juyo will tend to do 12k worth of damage, (Again, may go higher depending on gear). So, between constantly being healed, dishing out massive damage, constant dots, and 3 defensive buffs, you will find yourself easily stomping enemies who try to challenge you.

 

Of course every class has it's downsides, as a Sentinel, you can never underestimate a enemy, doing so will lead to you dying, quickly. Sniper/Gunslingers can burst you down faster then it takes a bad Call of Duty game to come out if you don't prepare with the proper defensive buffs. Guardian/Juggernauts can activate their defensives that give them health when hit. Smuggler/Operatives can chainstun you and proceed to melt you due to your flimsy medium armor.

 

In my experience, any other class however you should be fine fighting. Commando/Mercenaries melt since a majority of their attacks have channel times which can easily be interrupted with a swift kick to the face, a Awe stun, or a Stasis. Vanguard/Powertechs adrenaline can be countered by constantly self healing with burn crits, (and you don't have to worry about damage since they don't have big cannons or two pistols).

 

Well, what about Sentinels you might be asking if you read this far. Well, if they're specced Watchman, it's a battle of the ages, it comes down to better gear, and better timing and knowledge of your class. Combat Sentinels are all burst, you gotta be quick to counter with a Stasis when they pop their damage penetration attack. Focus Sentinels, well, you just kind of laugh at them since only time you should spec Focus is for smashing 4 or more enemies for fun.

 

But other then that, you should really be enjoying dueling as probably one of the best classes in the game. It really all comes down to how well you understand your class. The more you play, the better you get. So, I hope this helps you on your quest for dominance in duels. If you have any questions, ask away. If you think I'm a noob and want to laugh at me for using a 'PVE Spec' in PVP, be my guest. As long as this helped, I'm happy.

 

~~Emelc

[fire-breath]

Any thoughts?

 

Yes. I thought I hope that while you are going for the kill you still watch out for people capping nodes and stuff like that.

Nothing I hate more in PvP are people mindlessly going in for the kill which are than proceeded to be ninja capped behind their back. Have this happen once to many times.

 

Anyways, regarding marauder duelling. They are very nice to duel with or against. Your cooldowns almost makes you more tankier than most tanks are while you still ditch out nice damage. With some smart use of force camo you should be able to outwit ennemies.

 

That having said ...... bring the player, not the class. I don't make it a secret that I suck at melee PvP. My lousy dps skills however are compensated by that I know what to do in warzones and what to lookout for. For you this means that if you are up against me on my melee in a 1 vs 1 you most likely will win if you are a skilled duellist. But than again I might have lured you away from the civil war turret which you were guarding so that my stealthed teammate can cap the node

 

EDIT:

TL;DR - bring the person not the class. Marauders are fine

Edited October 17, 2014 by fire-breath

[Skarey]

I'd like to point out a major defensive cd against a lot of classes...pacify/obfuscate. Good use of this ability is often the difference between winning and losing. Contrary to the apparently widespread belief that its best to apply to the healer your tunneling (sarcasm inserted there) using this on classes that rely on heavy burst windows with white attacks (carnage/combat, AS/Pyro, Vigilance/Vengeance) will save your butt. For instance, if you are aware and capable enough to obfuscate a Carnage's opener, especially in duels, you will merely get hit with a non-critted maybe 3k force scream in full gear instead of gore for 2k, 25k total ravage, 12k force scream, so on so forth. Even against pyro pts, which for some reason people apparently think aren't scary (you don't play arena on PoT5), their initial damage has back to back rail shots. You would be surprised how many really good top ranked pvpers still double rail shot or high impact bolt while under obfuscate. Also against classes with execute abilities under 30% it is an amazing cd for keeping yourself alive. I cant tell you how many times as anni/watchmen I hve been dead next global, obfuscated and watch them vt/assassinate all up on me expecting the duel to be over while I pop a zerk and heal up enough to let me kill them. Same with carnage, it can keep you alive long enough to have gore come up and take someone from 40% to dead in 3 globals. I would say atm the hardest classes for me to duel are conceal and vengeance. I play with some of the best conceals and simply put a good one will just destroy you. Vengeance is self explanatory...in the hands of as capable, geared and skilled as you are they will win. Anyway sorry for wall of text I just see a lot of random obfuscates beinthrown out there and I thought maybe some people could use some clarification on what it does and how it can be used. Take the time to READ tooltips. I play with really good pvpers and many still don't understand their abilities and talents sometimes because they don't take the time to read. Hope this helps ggs and gds

[Rhylass]

Playing Sentinel exclusively, for 3 years now, being a Watchman.

To OP, thats right, one on one duels divergent from "real" PVP. Duels in this game are just a gimmick, not really balanced as ware zones are, think of all the hidden Buffs there.

 

Basically, I see my role as a GPS. Let others marvel about their damage numbers - which are high for us anyway - unless we are out-focused and there is no Back up or heal. Like you, I think kills matter. As a Watchman in PvP I am the killer, if I am not stunned Lots of solos and high kill count are to be expected.

 

If they are dead, they are good. Everything beside this, is drama.

 

1vs1 is much harder against certain classes you ordinarily cut to pieces.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

For Sentinels/Marauders, dueling an opponent is their easy win thing, any spec can do it if you know how to play right.

 

Watchman has a pretty easy time doing 1v1 dueling, since your DCD's are quite powerful and you have one of the best ways to catch someone off-guard (6s Force Camouflage) and you can have one of the shortest CD interrupts. It's main downfall though is, the damage takes time to ramp up, so your opponent could catch you at low HP before you get to your full damage potential.

 

Combat has a decently easy time but it's main counter is Force or Tech heavy classes like Deception Sin, or Pyro PT. Since you have next to no defence against them, also other burst classes and stealthers can give you a hard to win 1v1, ive dueled the really good Carnage Mara in my raid team as both Decep Sin and Pyro PT and won both duels with me being lower gear than him (both were in PvE gear).

 

Focus spec has the most control over the battlefield, Force Sweep can hit like a truck, and your other skills allow you to shape the duel how you want it to go, so just watch how your opponent goes at you, and react to it.

[DeltaThreeEight]

I'd like to point out a major defensive cd against a lot of classes...pacify/obfuscate. Good use of this ability is often the difference between winning and losing.

 

I forgot to mention Pacify in my wall of text.

 

Pacify is a great skill for dueling because it allows you a grace period where they will have a very hard time hitting you, it makes a great skill to use during big hits on the enemies side or to use as a 'Oh S***' button. I have my Pacify bound to 'Shift + C' so I can easily pop it in fights without it taking up any of the valuable keys.

[cjwestlake]

Once upon a time I asked the same questions

While the answers here are very helpful and full of great info I needed a visual representation of great players showing their skill and subsequently tried to mimic their gameplay. Eventually, I created my own style but watching the elite helped a great deal.

1. Keybinds = make them easy to use, once u can just play instinctually your skill will skyrocket

2. Watch when and where each ability is used and why.

 

Combat

 

tatooine vs Grim:

 

Infaburst:

 

Watchmen

 

SWTOR 2.8 lvl 55 Watchman Sentinel PvP 1500+DPS 1…:

 

These are just a couple of examples good luck

[Scarab_]

I was sorta hoping to keep this discussion more general but maybe I should clear up a few things about my playstyle first.

 

... I hope that while you are going for the kill you still watch out for people capping nodes and stuff like that.

Nothing I hate more in PvP are people mindlessly going in for the kill ..

 

Absolutely! Right on all points. ANY game I play, I play for the win - NOT personal numbers. When I WZ these days, it's almost exclusively with guildies, most of us using VOIP. We are objective oriented, want to win, and win or lose as a team.

 

That said I understand my role within the group as the DPS. And not just fluff DPS, but the killer. Especially on heavy armor targets, as I'm combat/carnage and can burn thru armor, whereas other classes may struggle.

 

As far as Keybinds and Def CD's go...

 

I use a Logitech G-13 and a g600 mmo mouse, I have absolutely everything bound and make frequent use of all my CD's. (I'll play my tank or some other class if I want the game to slow down a bit, but I've always considered my Mara my main because i love the fast-paced, key-smashing action.)

 

• Pacify/Obfuscate can be your best friend against certain DPS classes. (Anyone using this on a healer, force-user or DoT spec class needs to re-read the tooltip.)
  

 

• Ward and Cloak are no-brainers and should be used whenever your incoming damage becomes uncomfortable.
  

• Choke/Stasis and Force Camo I mostly use as interrupts in a duel, but a WZ play out a bit differently... (Consider when you happen to be the last man standing, surrounded by 6 baddies at a hard fought node. You have a sliver a health and no hope of surviving... Stealth out, wait as long as possible while they start capping the node. At the last possible second, leap in and pop Undying rage - you have 4 seconds to be as annoying as possible before you die. Maybe your lucky and Roar is off CD. Mez everyone with your final act as you die in a blaze of glory - Lol. This the stuff fun WZ's are made of. It won't show up in your personal numbers but you may well have bought enough time for your team to send reinforcements.)
  

• Force Camo and Undying Rage are also good ways to buy your healer time to get to you. A lot of people don't like the way UR works now, and I get that, but I found if you announce that you are using it first, a good healer can get through it. Have them use their HoTs and any buffs first, saving their big heal for after the penalty.
  

 

I could go on, but the point is I'm having a lot of fun in WZ's and definitely making an impact. I don't play for numbers, but now that I'm geared better (thanks in part to some insightful members of these forums) my numbers are consistently pretty good now. This is leading me to the problem I was hoping to get a little help with.

 

I guess I'm starting to get a reputation with my guildies as a pvp-er. I'm fine with that as it encourages more to join me. But it's led some others, especially those much lower rank, to wanna challenge me in a duel to somehow earn some cred/bragging rights. As I outrank them, I feel sort of obliged to give them their shot, tho i really don't like dueling.

 

Of course I could just decline, but I was hoping improve that aspect of my game.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Scarab_

[Scarab_]

To OP, thats right, one on one duels divergent from "real" PVP. Duels in this game are just a gimmick, not really balanced as ware zones are...

 

I actually agree with your entire post, but especially that. I feel like even if there was a such a thing as 2v2 duel, I would start to do well again. I like taking advantage of different class mechanics, as well as other game functions like focus targets and assists. You don't get any of that in a duel.

 

Also in a WZ, I attack when I want to Attack. If I'm ganked when I'm not ready, well thats what Camo and Roar are for. If I have to, i might even burn a frenzy-predation to run away in certain situations. When I'm looking for prey, I'm looking for anyone that might be vulnerable to where I have the advantage. Again, you don't get any of that in a duel.

 

1vs1 is much harder against certain classes you ordinarily cut to pieces

 

Exactly. That's why I'm a bit frustrated.

 

If they are dead, they are good. Everything beside this, is drama.

 

Amen brother.

 

IDK, maybe this is just a play-style thing I'll have to accept. I do know some Mara's that are exceptional in duels however. We are geared a bit differently, and use some different combos, but maybe I'll just have to spend more time learning from them and decide whether or not its worth changing up my style.

 

[EDIT:] Bah, I fear I'm getting sidetracked. I'll try to summerize my point as discreetly as possible.

 

I like the interplay with other classes as well as managing all the other chaos in a WZ. With a guard, I'm kinda nasty. With some occasional heals, I'm kinda nasty. With a guard and Heals, I tend to dominate. Tho as i was trying to point out with the solo kills, I definitely can hold my own when i don't have those, especially when I can tip something else in my favor. However, I'm not that good in a contrived situation 1v1 like a duel. Do you guys think: I'm using support classes as a crutch? Or is it a legitimate difference in the way Mara's and some styles are built?

Edited October 18, 2014 by Scarab_

[Rhylass]

Do you guys think: I'm using support classes as a crutch? Or is it a legitimate difference in the way Mara's and some styles are built?

 

Greetings Scarab_

 

Yes I think you're using support classes as a crutch, and yes, that's legitimate. More so, its the way IMO Sentinels are meant to be played.

 

Sentinels are team players.

Like you, I don't care much about my personal "appearance" . Fighting alongside my friends, I do what's necessary, no matter what, the WIN is the goal. If everything falls on its place, results are rewarding anyway, numbers and all.

If not, well, you've been one of the nastier character all around anyway, hurting them.

 

Its important HOW you enter a fight and which fights you enter.

What is, at this very moment, the given task?

Offensive - Defensive?

Going after their healer or guarding your own against incoming DDs? - melee or ranged? Aggressively attacking individually, exposing your self as you go, or, as a support, focussing with team mates, turning in on specific targets, melting into the background - if this still is possible for you. You're melee, so which beautiful nose you may ever broke, you did so, upfront, literally face to face. You're a threat? You're known.

 

Duelling?

 

It starts : "3" "2" "1" "go" .

 

It ends with the best utility.

[Skarey]

If you let us know what classes are challenging you in duels I would expect we could give you some better advice as to what to do vs what advanced class and spec. I find carnage can be difficult to duel with simply because a skilled player can fairly easily cc/root/avoid most of your gore windows. All said and done, if your not jug/op/sorc you cant heal in a duel so yeah your gonna lose repeatedly to those classes unless you happen to take them off guard.