Faction Imbalance

[BlueIllyrian]

I really want to enjoy playing my pubs, but my imps are more fun. I think the voice acting quality is higher imp side, plus pubs generally suck at pvp on my server, albeit with some notable exceptions.

 

I am the opposite, the faux British accent of imperial characters was driving me bonkers.

[DomiSotto]

Types like you always crack me up. It's fine to like playing a badguy, or liking the story, or enjoying the content but it's really hillarious watching mental cowards/simpletons trying to whitewash their choice.

 

I don't remember whom it attributed to, but I believe the saying goes that "Nobody likes being evil." Bio is trying to address the perennial complaints that playing Evil is unrewarding or simplistic. They did it well enough. It's normal that people try to rationalize. I still wish they had an Imperial story where an Imperial clearly worked against the Empire & the SIth to its downfall.

 

Hi, I'm 51 years old. I look at the planetary missions on Balmorra for the Republic, and wonder how anyone could justify the "We're going to save the people of Balmorra by killing them before the Empire gets a chance". I guess they are just very young, or not well educated in history, or at all?

 

Oh, really? I love playing Pub Balmorra to bits because what I see on Imperial Balmorra (and I now do class quest only after having been exposed to the unsavory side-quests and the horrid Darth L.

 

-Empire executes anyone they could get their hands on without a trial.

-Empire wants the civilians to suffer (in a quest on Balmorra Empire punishes the one decent Imp on the whole planet that tries to move the explosive devices to the materials only combatants will pick up off the supplies that will blast the families)

-Empire poisoned Balmorra's Fertile Belt rendering it unable to sustain own food production

-Empire hamstrung the Corporations nationalizing the factories and using slave labor there

-And, the Empire willfully destroyed their own puppet's mind to put him into a vegetable state

-They did rebuilt Sobric, good stuff.

 

In other words, what I am seeing is the Empire sucking Balmorra dry and bringing the planet to ruin with a sheer spite and brutality and zero intelligence. Balmorra is where I normally start hating playing an Imperial toon. I start doing anything to hit L20 and make haste to Nar Shadda. Unfortunately, I have 4 paired characters with my husband who obsessively plays every quest he sees, so I can't do that, and for the first time I am finding excuses not to play the game. Do anything but play Imp Balmorra! I mean, Colossus on DK is bad enough....

 

On the other hand, the Pub comes over, helps kick the Empire out, installs a local who is far more benign than the brutal Darth Larchus as their puppet, and sends a Jedi to keep checking on the corporations....

 

All and all, my fav arms dealers might actually survive under Pub. Under Empire, I think the writing is pretty much on the wall. No wonder they fight tooth and nail....

 

I am the opposite, the faux British accent of imperial characters was driving me bonkers.

 

I dunno if it is faux or authentic, but I do find it unpleasant, particularly protagonists, like both IAs and F!SI. Male SI is sort of okay, and F!SW is louder than anyone else that drives me crazy.

Edited October 4, 2014 by DomiSotto

[discbox]

I am the opposite, the faux British accent of imperial characters was driving me bonkers.

 

They are Imperial not British. So... they don't have to sound exactly like British.

Edited October 4, 2014 by discbox

[Galdos]

I still wish they had an Imperial story where an Imperial clearly worked against the Empire & the SIth to its downfall.

 

They do have 2.

 

 

An extremely lightside Sith Warrior is actively working for the downfall of the Sith. Im talking about allying with the Jedi and telling the Jedi that you are a hidden ally in the Sith ranks type of stuff.

 

The Imperial Agent can defect to the Republic

 

[Atma]

7. Emperor Plapatine had the gift of seeing the future and built the Death Star not to fight the Rebels but to fight the incoming invasion of the Vong.

 

Haha I'm so glad Disney retconned most of this garbage.

[robertthebard]

Hi, seeing yourself in the uneducated category despite your 51 years of age?

 

Republic is corrupt, bumbling, incompetent etc. and that is bad.

 

Empire is a totalitarian, slaveowning, genocidal entity ruled by a caste of homicidal sociopathic maniacs and that is worse.

 

Types like you always crack me up. It's fine to like playing a badguy, or liking the story, or enjoying the content but it's really hillarious watching mental cowards/simpletons trying to whitewash their choice.

 

What's the matter, don't have the guts to claim you like the bad guys and you enjoy pixelated sadism?

 

Yes, space nazis aka the Sith are cool so now let's pretend they are not as bad as they look.

 

My favourite so far in this tread is the guy with the line how slavery isn 't bad if you are a Sith.

 

And concentration camps were geat if you were a gas chamber operator.

 

And chattle slavery in American South was grand if you were the guy with a whip.

 

NKVD was cool if you were a Stalinist.

 

And so on and so forth, in the end BW f-ed it up big time by giving too many toys and flash to "evil" faction. If not for the plot armour any organization/state like this comic book villain Sith Empire would cave in from internal infighting far before it would rose to be a power of any statue.

 

What's really fun is to watch self proclaimed geniuses make idiots out of themselves. Go back, read my previous post, and see where I justify playing one side or the other. Of my 11 toons over 50, with 10 being 55, 6 are Pub. I'm not pulling things out of my *** to justify "the Pub side is every bit as bad as the Imps, with the added bonus of 'Surprise, we're bigger *****s than you thought'". I'm speaking from experience. I'm speaking as someone who has actually finished all the class missions on the Pub side, and the IA story. I get it, I really do, you want the Pubs to be a beacon of hope in a galaxy at war, but the reality is far from that.

 

True story: The Republic wants to destroy Balmorra, with all the people on it, to keep the Empire from destroying Balmorra.

 

During the Trooper's missions, from the time they leave Ord Mantell until they actually complete their story line, there are plenty of places where the Republic would rather save a building, or destroy one, rather than save the people that actually make up the Republic. I won't even go into what the Supreme Chancellor plans to do at the end that story.

 

Looking at the story as presented doesn't mean I'm naïve, or trying to rationalize playing one side or the other. I have, as you can tell, played both sides equally. I have not, however, blinded myself to the realities of the Republic, or the Empire. What I have done is decided that, if I were to choose, I would rather have the people that are upfront about their douchebaggery in charge, instead of the people that will smile to your face while stabbing you in the back. So you can stow your comments about my education level, it's likely higher than yours. I simply looked at the entire picture, instead of holding on desperately to Ep 4-6, and the idealistic idea of an altruistic Republic, and saw them for what they are.

 

Just a little note here: The entire Imp fleet isn't at Balmorra. After they get done committing genocide on a planetary scale there, where are they going to move that weapon to next? But it's ok to commit planetary genocide on any world where they can strike a blow at the Empire, because it's for our own good, right?

[robertthebard]

I don't remember whom it attributed to, but I believe the saying goes that "Nobody likes being evil." Bio is trying to address the perennial complaints that playing Evil is unrewarding or simplistic. They did it well enough. It's normal that people try to rationalize. I still wish they had an Imperial story where an Imperial clearly worked against the Empire & the SIth to its downfall.

 

 

 

Oh, really? I love playing Pub Balmorra to bits because what I see on Imperial Balmorra (and I now do class quest only after having been exposed to the unsavory side-quests and the horrid Darth L.

 

-Empire executes anyone they could get their hands on without a trial.

-Empire wants the civilians to suffer (in a quest on Balmorra Empire punishes the one decent Imp on the whole planet that tries to move the explosive devices to the materials only combatants will pick up off the supplies that will blast the families)

-Empire poisoned Balmorra's Fertile Belt rendering it unable to sustain own food production

-Empire hamstrung the Corporations nationalizing the factories and using slave labor there

-And, the Empire willfully destroyed their own puppet's mind to put him into a vegetable state

-They did rebuilt Sobric, good stuff.

 

In other words, what I am seeing is the Empire sucking Balmorra dry and bringing the planet to ruin with a sheer spite and brutality and zero intelligence. Balmorra is where I normally start hating playing an Imperial toon. I start doing anything to hit L20 and make haste to Nar Shadda. Unfortunately, I have 4 paired characters with my husband who obsessively plays every quest he sees, so I can't do that, and for the first time I am finding excuses not to play the game. Do anything but play Imp Balmorra! I mean, Colossus on DK is bad enough....

 

On the other hand, the Pub comes over, helps kick the Empire out, installs a local who is far more benign than the brutal Darth Larchus as their puppet, and sends a Jedi to keep checking on the corporations....

 

All and all, my fav arms dealers might actually survive under Pub. Under Empire, I think the writing is pretty much on the wall. No wonder they fight tooth and nail....

 

 

 

I dunno if it is faux or authentic, but I do find it unpleasant, particularly protagonists, like both IAs and F!SI. Male SI is sort of okay, and F!SW is louder than anyone else that drives me crazy.

 

Yes, and if you don't destroy the weapon on the Pub side's planetary mission, the Republic will kill all life on the planet, and in orbit around the planet. So, what you're saying is "Planetary genocide is better than all that stuff the Empire is doing". I wonder then, why choosing to let them keep the weapon is a DS choice? So DS is ok, if you're a Pub, because it's for our own good?

[freeoftime]

you know the big difference there? you can actually make a meaningful ls choice, unlike many, many of the empire ls choices. (think of the taris imperial planetary -- "well i guess i'm not gonna kill these people myself someone else can do that after i disable their defences." "well sure, i've been instrumental in working towards messing up this planet even more and destroyed any chance of the cathar finding a home here, killing them by the dozens instead, but hey, i let some refugees go! that makes me a nice guy right?")

 

because the republic, while corrupt and doing some horrible ****, is still not nearly as bad as the empire pverall, which thrives on being awful, which punishes people who try not to be awful (see that pure guy on balmorra who ends up being whipped for trying to save children). Yeah sure, republic can be awful, but the empire does *everything* the republic does, and then five times more than that.

[Damask_Rose]

I am the opposite, the faux British accent of imperial characters was driving me bonkers.

 

If it makes you feel any better, the vast majority of Imperial voice actors really are British, with an occasional Aussie tossed in the mix.

[CrutchCricket]

Haha I'm so glad Disney retconned most of this garbage.

 

Yes because Force deities and all the other nonsense in the Clone Wars is so much better....

 

 

Otherwise what I seem to be getting from this Pub/Imp argument is Empire is better because they don't hide being fascist *****? lol really?

[DomiSotto]

Yes, and if you don't destroy the weapon on the Pub side's planetary mission, the Republic will kill all life on the planet, and in orbit around the planet. So, what you're saying is "Planetary genocide is better than all that stuff the Empire is doing". I wonder then, why choosing to let them keep the weapon is a DS choice? So DS is ok, if you're a Pub, because it's for our own good?

 

I frankly I don't remember anyone on the Pub side to command me to have Balmorra annihilated (it takes me a long time to play each character, so my 2 Balmorra runs were a few months ago), all I remember is saving every last person I could there but it sounds like one of those many player choices, where the player upholds the moral side in spite of his or her short-sighted superiors. It is a relatively common theme on both sides, and it is actually amazing how often Bio repeats this. My Trooper is on Alderaan, so I will pay attention to see if there is really OMG, Pub Autrocities! going on, but really, I have a hard time believing it's anything but a clearly marked DS choice (since the game has to be viable for both sides). Even if it is genocide in making, on Pub side you can clearly prevent it, while on the imperial side you actively helping Darth with hers and there is no option to do otherwise (not to mention you are killing your own loyalist on a Warrior at least).

 

At least you are given a choice. On the imperial Side, you are continuously trying to chose between slaughtering them and... slaughtering them after you have apologized. Use the poison that will just kill them, or use the poison that makes them suffer and then kill them.

 

On the pub side there much more choices where you are actively doing the right thing. On the imperial side... nothing, nothing and... nothing. About the only place I really enjoyed playing an Imperial character so far was killing a certain whiny brat on Taris. The rest was a cringe fest, and the IA story was the worst so far. I dunno how to get through it, short of shooting every NPC in the face, they are all so revolting to me. Even my Sith Inquisitor who is supposed to be a former slave him/herself sounds just like every other bully in the Imp story. If it was not in the backstory I would have never guessed from the writing.

Edited October 4, 2014 by DomiSotto

[MsMalice]

I have a fair few characters on both sides, I started out an Imp but fell in love with the scoundrel class (female version of Han Solo with a shotgun... yeah). The faction imbalance on the Bastion is so horrendous (at least when I'm on, APAC primetime) that I transfered to the Harbinger where there seems to be some reasonable balance between the factions.

 

I do find the Empire a bit more interesting to be honest and I think most people do, getting the chance to play the bad guys is always appealing to me since playing the hero has gotten somewhat stale (yes I know you can do both on every character). And in my opinon when it comes to class ability animations and the overall coolness factor, the Empire wins.

 

Jugg > Guardian

Mara = Sent (I don't know, I like both)

Sorc = Sage (sage has smoother animations but sorc has lightning and purple heals, hard decision)

Sin > Shadow (dat kick doe... but inquisitors are more interesting and also purple)

Powertech > Vanguard

Mercenary > Commando (dual blasters > assault cannon, bounty hunters are the ****)

Scoundrel > Operative

Sniper > Gunslinger (this one's the hardest since I love both, but Series of Shots > Speed Shot)

 

With that said I'll always be a pub at heart because I love my Smugglers. <3

[well]

I have a fair few characters on both sides, I started out an Imp but fell in love with the scoundrel class (female version of Han Solo with a shotgun... yeah). The faction imbalance on the Bastion is so horrendous (at least when I'm on, APAC primetime) that I transfered to the Harbinger where there seems to be some reasonable balance between the factions.

 

I do find the Empire a bit more interesting to be honest and I think most people do, getting the chance to play the bad guys is always appealing to me since playing the hero has gotten somewhat stale (yes I know you can do both on every character). And in my opinon when it comes to class ability animations and the overall coolness factor, the Empire wins.

 

Jugg > Guardian

Mara = Sent (I don't know, I like both)

Sorc = Sage (sage has smoother animations but sorc has lightning and purple heals, hard decision)

Sin > Shadow (dat kick doe... but inquisitors are more interesting and also purple)

Powertech > Vanguard

Mercenary > Commando (dual blasters > assault cannon, bounty hunters are the ****)

Scoundrel > Operative

Sniper > Gunslinger (this one's the hardest since I love both, but Series of Shots > Speed Shot)

 

With that said I'll always be a pub at heart because I love my Smugglers. <3

 

I enjoy either side. The reason some folks started making chrs on the other faction is because of the HK quest. I have to admit that was a good idea. I had a neglected Sith on the imp side but really got into the SI story. Which led to checking out the other classes of the empire.

[robertthebard]

I frankly I don't remember anyone on the Pub side to command me to have Balmorra annihilated (it takes me a long time to play each character, so my 2 Balmorra runs were a few months ago), all I remember is saving every last person I could there but it sounds like one of those many player choices, where the player upholds the moral side in spite of his or her short-sighted superiors. It is a relatively common theme on both sides, and it is actually amazing how often Bio repeats this. My Trooper is on Alderaan, so I will pay attention to see if there is really OMG, Pub Autrocities! going on, but really, I have a hard time believing it's anything but a clearly marked DS choice (since the game has to be viable for both sides). Even if it is genocide in making, on Pub side you can clearly prevent it, while on the imperial side you actively helping Darth with hers and there is no option to do otherwise (not to mention you are killing your own loyalist on a Warrior at least).

 

At least you are given a choice. On the imperial Side, you are continuously trying to chose between slaughtering them and... slaughtering them after you have apologized. Use the poison that will just kill them, or use the poison that makes them suffer and then kill them.

 

On the pub side there much more choices where you are actively doing the right thing. On the imperial side... nothing, nothing and... nothing. About the only place I really enjoyed playing an Imperial character so far was killing a certain whiny brat on Taris. The rest was a cringe fest, and the IA story was the worst so far. I dunno how to get through it, short of shooting every NPC in the face, they are all so revolting to me. Even my Sith Inquisitor who is supposed to be a former slave him/herself sounds just like every other bully in the Imp story. If it was not in the backstory I would have never guessed from the writing.

 

Choosing to do the right thing, despite orders to the contrary doesn't mean that the people in charge didn't give the orders. You get your first view of this corruption as soon as you get off the shuttle, with the Senator, and there's another Senator in the tower that you can expose as well. Then there's the slave collar chips. Note here that these examples are part of the Coruscant story, not a particular class mission. Choosing to expose it instead of condone it doesn't make it as if it never happened, it just means that the player chose to expose it/disallow it to continue. All of this while smiling in your face while twisting the knife. So yes, I find the "I know exactly what to expect with the Empire" to be better than the Republic's knife in the back. Evil is evil, it doesn't matter if they fly a red flag, or a blue one.

[well]

Choosing to do the right thing, despite orders to the contrary doesn't mean that the people in charge didn't give the orders. You get your first view of this corruption as soon as you get off the shuttle, with the Senator, and there's another Senator in the tower that you can expose as well. Then there's the slave collar chips. Note here that these examples are part of the Coruscant story, not a particular class mission. Choosing to expose it instead of condone it doesn't make it as if it never happened, it just means that the player chose to expose it/disallow it to continue. All of this while smiling in your face while twisting the knife. So yes, I find the "I know exactly what to expect with the Empire" to be better than the Republic's knife in the back. Evil is evil, it doesn't matter if they fly a red flag, or a blue one.

 

Evil by individuals doesn't constitute the whole system.

[DomiSotto]

Not only that, but in the case of one Senator she admits choosing what's easy over what's right and instead of trying to kill your character off (in an honest SIth way, lol), admits your moral high ground and stands down. I can respect that. In case of the second senator, you also come across an uncorrupted officer who puts a stop to the scheme (and whom I can respect). I do not see the betrayal there at all. I feel that people are fallible, but accountable to those who are willing to go beyond complacency. Now, when I feel that my char is personally twisting a knife while smiling is in the Warrior's story....

 

You can certainly play Pub side without losing the moral integrity.

 

On the other hand on DK, your character lets go of the last vestiges of common decency by slaughtering & poisoning rebelling slaves by accepting that some sentient being are inferior to others. I strongly miss that in the writing of the Inquisitor. That, and Miraluka not having a certain character voice so far are two biggest disappointments writing wise for me in the game (well, Zenith non-romance, but well, Bio was always like that).

 

I can't off hand even remember a single thing I did on the Imperial side that made me feel that i am doing something that benefits anyone, but my superior. I keep feeling that I tramp everyone, a lot of folks that I like, in order to please someone I loathe....

 

As of now, after playing the game for a little over 6 months, I have Consular and Smuggler finished their class stories(and a bit more), a Trooper starting Alderaan, and, well, a Warrior who's just finished Chapter 2 (and the rest of the 12 chars in the low 20'ies). Most of this personal imbalance has to do with feeling too unhappy playing for the Empire.

 

If I did not want to see all the class stories, I probably would have deleted all the Imp characters, and just finished the Pub. With IA in particular I find myself wanting my character to lose and to die a horrible death.

 

EDIT: Sorry about the walls of text. I should not be doing it. Everyone enjoys the game the way they enjoy the game, and feel the way they feel.

Edited October 5, 2014 by DomiSotto

[robertthebard]

Evil by individuals doesn't constitute the whole system.

 

...and yet, it's the system that's breeding the individuals. These incidents are "isolated", in that they are different parts of the ruling body that "give the orders", but they are a product of their environments. So refusing to deliver on the conditions of a bribe, leading to gangs taking over a sector is excusable, because she's a Pub Senator. If she were a Dark Council member, wouldn't we be saying that that's the expected behavior? General Garza has lots of examples of questionable activities, ranging from killing civilians to lying to the Senate, to destroying property because it's "easier" than trying to preserve the things you are supposed to be fighting for.

 

Yes, these are individuals, but they are all part of a system of "unrelated" events that show where the Republic really lies; win at all costs. The Balmorra story says "Hi". Chapt 2 of the IA story shows just how far they're willing to go:

 

 

During this chapter, you are effectively their slave, and they take full advantage at every opportunity.

 

 

So no, I don't see them as being any better than the Empire, and, in fact, see them as the lesser, since they do indeed pretend that the "evils" they are willing to commit are for the "greater good". The Empire makes no illusions about how they are, and frankly, I find that honesty "refreshing".

[DomiSotto]

I did not read the spoiler, but it seems that the IA story is extremely heavy-handed and revisionist. It feels like a propaganda movie rather than the truth the way you see it in the other stories. Honestly, I again feel like just deleting the IA altogether. Nothing but "ha-ha, all your other chars are STPOOOPID!" there. Bleh.

 

EDIT: Nevermind the rest of it. As I said, everyone feels the way they feel.

Edited October 5, 2014 by DomiSotto

[TravelersWay]

Haha I'm so glad Disney retconned most of this garbage.

 

Actually they didn't. George always said that the only thing that was canon were the movies. Everything that happened in the EU occurred in a "different world" and "alternate reality". All Disney did was combine the 5 tiers of non-canon into one and called it non-canon outright. The Vong never existed in George's universe, therefore they didn't exist in the official universe, and hence the Death Star was never built to defeat them, but simply to solidify the Empire's hold on the galaxy.

Edited October 5, 2014 by TravelersWay

[well]

...and yet, it's the system that's breeding the individuals. These incidents are "isolated", in that they are different parts of the ruling body that "give the orders", but they are a product of their environments. So refusing to deliver on the conditions of a bribe, leading to gangs taking over a sector is excusable, because she's a Pub Senator. If she were a Dark Council member, wouldn't we be saying that that's the expected behavior? General Garza has lots of examples of questionable activities, ranging from killing civilians to lying to the Senate, to destroying property because it's "easier" than trying to preserve the things you are supposed to be fighting for.

 

Yes, these are individuals, but they are all part of a system of "unrelated" events that show where the Republic really lies; win at all costs. The Balmorra story says "Hi". Chapt 2 of the IA story shows just how far they're willing to go:

 

 

During this chapter, you are effectively their slave, and they take full advantage at every opportunity.

 

 

So no, I don't see them as being any better than the Empire, and, in fact, see them as the lesser, since they do indeed pretend that the "evils" they are willing to commit are for the "greater good". The Empire makes no illusions about how they are, and frankly, I find that honesty "refreshing".

 

No it shows where some Pubs are corrupt. Broad brush approach doesn't work. There is no perfect world and you will always have some yutts that are bad apples.

[Sindorin]

In all honesty, I started out on the side of the Galactic Republic. I too felt that the Empire had far too many players and a lot of them were immature and even more were the hardcore "griefers" that you find on most Player vs Player servers. When I hit cap, I eventually left to defect to the Empire and after hitting cap there, I realized that while the Republic may have it's share of poor players, the maturity level on the Republic and the general quality of the players has always been much better in the Republic faction. That's not to say the Empire doesn't have it's own, but in my experience, the really good people go Republic simply for the challenge.

[Damask_Rose]

I prefer to play the Empire because I love the accents and the Imperial uniform is way cooler. I also made the mistake of rolling a Fem!Consular as my first Republic character and I think she is hands down the worst voice actor in the game. She makes paint drying seem interesting in comparison

 

The Empire is evil and the Republic is slimy. I was going to write up some examples of how slimy the Republic is, but it started turning into a novel. Greed, crime, and cruelty at every turn all coated with sanctimonious hypocrisy.

[robertthebard]

No it shows where some Pubs are corrupt. Broad brush approach doesn't work. There is no perfect world and you will always have some yutts that are bad apples.

 

Yep, they just happen to be in positions of authority on just about every planet. I'd love to just shift into denial mode, and look at them with my rose colored glasses, but they got broken in the '70s, so I'm forced to look at the stories as they are presented.

[well]

Yep, they just happen to be in positions of authority on just about every planet. I'd love to just shift into denial mode, and look at them with my rose colored glasses, but they got broken in the '70s, so I'm forced to look at the stories as they are presented.

 

So you switched to blinders I see. Sounds like you got your wish on denial mode though. Kudos.

[Halinalle]

This so called imbalance seems to vary between servers:

 

The Progenitor:

I can't really say who is better. Both factions have their share of good and bad players.

 

The Red Eclipse:

Republic seems to have more good players, some bad players in the mix too.

Empire... on the other hand... is totally different story (there's still some very good players).