SW Rebels: Spark of Rebellion

[Wolfninjajedi]

...No....no, NO. This is the straw that broke the camels back....sorry but folks, in regards to Stormtroopers. ALL OF YOU ARE WRONG AND HAVEN'T PAID ATTENTION!

 

With the exception of like....1. But let's go over a few things and shed some light on Stormtroopers shall we?

 

1. They are the elite shock troops of the Empire, so to those saying that they aren't bright, or the best, or can't hit anything(will get to that in a minute) are wrong. They are the best in the Galactic Empire, moving with swift effectiveness.

 

One of the most recognized symbols of the Empire, the Stormtrooper legions are the largest elite fighting force in the galaxy.

 

- Taken from Rebel SpecForce Handbook

 

Encased in protective white armor and wielding the most powerful personal weapons available, Imperial Stormtroopers form the Empire's elite shock troops and are feared throughout the galaxy.

 

- Taken from Imperial Sourcebook 2nd edition

 

Among pretty much EVERY source, saying that they are elite troops within the Empire.

 

2. Their aiming capabilities....ok, did anyone even watch ANH? Yes? Ok so then tell me...you folks keep saying that the Stormtroopers couldn't hit any of the main characters, even when the DS was full of them.

 

Anyone wanna know why? THEY WERE LET GO! The Stormtroopers were under orders to let Luke and co go, does anyone remember this line?

 

"You sure the homing beacon is secured aboard their ship? I've taken an awful risk Vader, this had better work"

 

- Tarkin to Vader

 

Then Leia confirms this...

 

"They let us go, it's the only reason for the ease of our escape."

 

- Leia to Han

 

Remember...the Empire was trying to find the Rebel Base, so what better way than to follow the ship heading straight for where they want to go?....Folks....it's not that hard, it was shown plain as day right in the movie....Stormtroopers didn't suck at aiming just because, they 'sucked' because they were under orders to let Luke and co go.

 

3. This whole "they were terrible in the movies" ....WHAT? Let's look at something here....

 

- A New Hope, they stormed the Tantive IV, taking it over and taking Rebels prisoners with quick speed. They then acted out very convincingly as trying to kill Luke and co, while following orders to let them go.

 

- Empire Strikes Back, they stormed through Echo Base, quickly overrunning it and taking out any remaining personnel. Cloud City, they were able to quietly move in without any notice of them even being in the city, taking Han and co by surprise. Then again, they were under order to not kill Leia and co and instead push them back to the Falcon, so then Vader could capture them aboard the Executor.

 

Speculation on the last part, but it fits very well with the fact of this line...

 

"Calrissian, take the Princess and the Wookiee to my ship."

 

Vader to Lando

 

Then these lines...

 

"Did your men deactivate the hyperdrive on the Millennium Falcon?"

 

"Yes, my lord."

 

"Good prepare the boarding party and set your weapons for stun."

 

- Vader and Piett

 

Take note, the Falcon was being 'worked' on as soon as Han and co arrived, so clearly Vader had a contingency plan to capture them if something had happened. So again....why would the Stormtroopers kill them, if Vader was wanting them alive?...Makes sense..

 

- Return of the Jedi, their mission was to capture the Rebel Strike Force and THEY DID....without a single shot being fired, Rebellion was done. Even during the ground battle, the fight only really turned around when Chewie hijacked an AT-ST

 

Chewbacca's walker moves through the forest, firing laser blasts at unsuspecting stormtroopers, and destroying other Imperial walkers. The Ewoks shout and cheer as the giant machine helps turn the tide of the

battle in their favor.

 

- Taken from ROTJ script

 

This was the only battle that the Stormtroopers lost and it was due to a huge number of factors set against them, it was hardly due to incompetence or what have you.

 

Alright I'm done...just had to get this out in the open.

 

/End rant.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

/applause

[Silenceo]

The underestimation of Stormtroopers always annoys me... Couldn't have put it better myself Wolf! Not to mention what others mentioned earlier about the lethality displayed in Rebels, accuracy and such wise. Please, oh please, let there be no more scenes like where Ezra tricked guards into his cell... *facepalm*

[Aurbere]

Guess you guys didn't see the trailer where the Stormtrooper stares at a grenade until it blows up, huh?

 

Rebels seems intent on obliterating the reputation the EU gave the Stormtroopers.

[Silenceo]

Guess you guys didn't see the trailer where the Stormtrooper stares at a grenade until it blows up, huh?

 

Rebels seems intent on obliterating the reputation the EU gave the Stormtroopers.

 

I declare those ones rookies!

 

They have their moments, and then they have their....moments... There are both good showings and terrible showings so far.

 

So, what does a stormtrooper new-recruit look like? Different armor or the same?

[Callaron]

...No....no, NO. This is the straw that broke the camels back....sorry but folks, in regards to Stormtroopers. ALL OF YOU ARE WRONG AND HAVEN'T PAID ATTENTION!

 

With the exception of like....1. But let's go over a few things and shed some light on Stormtroopers shall we?

 

1. They are the elite shock troops of the Empire, so to those saying that they aren't bright, or the best, or can't hit anything(will get to that in a minute) are wrong. They are the best in the Galactic Empire, moving with swift effectiveness.

 

 

 

 

 

Among pretty much EVERY source, saying that they are elite troops within the Empire.

 

2. Their aiming capabilities....ok, did anyone even watch ANH? Yes? Ok so then tell me...you folks keep saying that the Stormtroopers couldn't hit any of the main characters, even when the DS was full of them.

 

Anyone wanna know why? THEY WERE LET GO! The Stormtroopers were under orders to let Luke and co go, does anyone remember this line?

 

 

 

Then Leia confirms this...

 

 

 

Remember...the Empire was trying to find the Rebel Base, so what better way than to follow the ship heading straight for where they want to go?....Folks....it's not that hard, it was shown plain as day right in the movie....Stormtroopers didn't suck at aiming just because, they 'sucked' because they were under orders to let Luke and co go.

 

3. This whole "they were terrible in the movies" ....WHAT? Let's look at something here....

 

- A New Hope, they stormed the Tantive IV, taking it over and taking Rebels prisoners with quick speed. They then acted out very convincingly as trying to kill Luke and co, while following orders to let them go.

 

- Empire Strikes Back, they stormed through Echo Base, quickly overrunning it and taking out any remaining personnel. Cloud City, they were able to quietly move in without any notice of them even being in the city, taking Han and co by surprise. Then again, they were under order to not kill Leia and co and instead push them back to the Falcon, so then Vader could capture them aboard the Executor.

 

Speculation on the last part, but it fits very well with the fact of this line...

 

 

 

Then these lines...

 

 

 

Take note, the Falcon was being 'worked' on as soon as Han and co arrived, so clearly Vader had a contingency plan to capture them if something had happened. So again....why would the Stormtroopers kill them, if Vader was wanting them alive?...Makes sense..

 

- Return of the Jedi, their mission was to capture the Rebel Strike Force and THEY DID....without a single shot being fired, Rebellion was done. Even during the ground battle, the fight only really turned around when Chewie hijacked an AT-ST

 

 

 

This was the only battle that the Stormtroopers lost and it was due to a huge number of factors set against them, it was hardly due to incompetence or what have you.

 

Alright I'm done...just had to get this out in the open.

 

/End rant.

 

You make some very good points.

Now go over to the guys producing Rebels. *starts to push Wolfninjajedi towards the studio* Instruct them in the ways of the Stormtrooper!

[Wolfninjajedi]

You make some very good points.

Now go over to the guys producing Rebels. *starts to push Wolfninjajedi towards the studio* Instruct them in the ways of the Stormtrooper!

 

I'm just....I'm just tired of all the ignorance regarding Stormtroopers....

[Silenceo]

I'm just....I'm just tired of all the ignorance regarding Stormtroopers....

 

Think of it this way...

 

We might get to see many variants of Stormtroopers to pose as new threats throughout the show!

 

Examples:

 

Dark Troopers

Space Troopers

Shock Troopers

Nova Troopers

Jet Troopers

Sand Trooper

Snow Trooper

Sniper

Storm Commando

Purge Trooper

Cybernetic Troopers (storm troopers with improvements)

Zombie Trooper

 

The list goes on and on! When a new one is introduced, it is likely they will try and emphasize why they are different/deadlier than the standard one. See, bright side! (Also confirms them all to the current canon if they are on the show. That is most of what I look forward to in Rebels. I am calling it now... If they defeat the Inquisitor... I totally call some one like Jerec being called! )

[Wolfninjajedi]

Think of it this way...

 

We might get to see many variants of Stormtroopers to pose as new threats throughout the show!

 

Examples:

 

Dark Troopers

Space Troopers

Shock Troopers

Nova Troopers

Jet Troopers

Sand Trooper

Snow Trooper

Sniper

Storm Commando

Purge Trooper

Cybernetic Troopers (storm troopers with improvements)

Zombie Trooper

 

The list goes on and on! When a new one is introduced, it is likely they will try and emphasize why they are different/deadlier than the standard one. See, bright side! (Also confirms them all to the current canon if they are on the show. That is most of what I look forward to in Rebels. I am calling it now... If they defeat the Inquisitor... I totally call some one like Jerec being called! )

 

That is if they ever get out of the "Saturday morning villain" cartoon phase. This show better pick up quick and show the Empire as a legit force, because already it really hasn't, except for near the end with Kallus. But I wanna see more than just 1 guy do something significant.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[DarthDymond]

...No....no, NO. This is the straw that broke the camels back....sorry but folks, in regards to Stormtroopers. ALL OF YOU ARE WRONG AND HAVEN'T PAID ATTENTION![...snip for length...]

There are absolutely a ton of explanations/justifications/excuses/fanwanks for why the Stormtroopers should really be thought of as an elite fighting force, but at the end of the day the popular conception of them is still this, or this, or this, or

.

 

I personally prefer a Star Wars story that treats Stormtoopers as a legitimate threat (or at least as barely competent), so I hope that over time Rebels moves in that direction. But I'm not going to put too much fault on a series that is choosing to follow the popular conception of them and instead uses them as some combination of obstacles and comic relief. As long as it doesn't frequently go so far over the line, that is - which I feel happened with Ezra's escape from his cell.

[Wolfninjajedi]

There are absolutely a ton of explanations/justifications/excuses/fanwanks for why the Stormtroopers should really be thought of as an elite fighting force, but at the end of the day the popular conception of them is still this, or this, or this, or

.

 

I personally prefer a Star Wars story that treats Stormtoopers as a legitimate threat (or at least as barely competent), so I hope that over time Rebels moves in that direction. But I'm not going to put too much fault on a series that is choosing to follow the popular conception of them and instead uses them as some combination of obstacles and comic relief. As long as it doesn't frequently go so far over the line, that is - which I feel happened with Ezra's escape from his cell.

 

Except that conception is completely wrong if people only paid attention to the movies....they didn't even need to go into the EU, just...watch...the movies.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[DarthDymond]

Except that conception is completely wrong if people only paid attention to the movies....they didn't even need to go into the EU, just...watch...the movies.

If the impression the movies were aiming for was that Stormtroopers were an elite fighting force, then the narrative shouldn't have had them getting beaten by teddy bears.

 

It's a core principle of storytelling: "show, don't tell" - so lines of dialogue that state or imply that the stormtroopers were holding back just aren't going to resonate as deeply with most viewers as seeing them on-screen miss, and miss, and miss, and miss.

 

The narrative of the original trilogy gave us two scenes where the Stormtroopers were legitimately coming across - on screen - as threatening: the attack on the Tantive IV and the attack on Echo Base. But those two scenes just got overshadowed by the times we saw them (again based on what we actually see on screen) come across as ineffective - taking off from Tatooine, the Death Star escape, the battle on Cloud City, and the battle on Endor.

 

Every movie (or series of movies) has to make tradeoffs in terms of plot pacing, conservation of detail, special effects practicalities, structuring their twists/reveals, budget, etc., etc., etc. Often you have to cut out something that could have fleshed out one aspect of the narrative so that the overall product comes out better (e.g. we don't see Luke really grieving over Owen and Beru, which could seem like a heck of an oversight, but that means we're able to keep the plot moving and get to the introduction of key characters like Han that much sooner). I think the Stormtroopers were just a victim of one such tradeoff.

 

It probably made for a better movie overall that we didn't have screen time devoted to seeing the Stormtroopers attacking the Sandcrawler with their "precise" shots or wiping out the Lars homestead, or by adding more scenes that could have showed them being the "elite" force that the dialogue says they're supposed to be. But those narrative choices did mean that much of their actual screen-time was made up of instances where we saw them being ineffective - so viewers' perception of them started to skew.

 

Stormtroopers were a legitimate threat to the "redshirts" of the Rebels, but in the narrative we saw portrayed on-screen, they never served as anything more than obstacles to the main characters. And, since the story follows the main characters, that is the impression of the Stormtroopers that sticks for many viewers.

Edited October 14, 2014 by DarthDymond

[Wolfninjajedi]

If the impression the movies were aiming for was that Stormtroopers were an elite fighting force, then the narrative shouldn't have had them getting beaten by teddy bears.

 

It's a core principle of storytelling: "show, don't tell" - so lines of dialogue that state or imply that the stormtroopers were holding back just aren't going to resonate as deeply with most viewers as seeing them on-screen miss, and miss, and miss, and miss.

 

The narrative of the original trilogy gave us two scenes where the Stormtroopers were legitimately coming across - on screen - as threatening: the attack on the Tantive IV and the attack on Echo Base. But those two scenes just got overshadowed by the times we saw them (again based on what we actually see on screen) come across as ineffective - taking off from Tatooine, the Death Star escape, the battle on Cloud City, and the battle on Endor.

 

Every movie (or series of movies) has to make tradeoffs in terms of plot pacing, conservation of detail, special effects practicalities, structuring their twists/reveals, budget, etc., etc., etc. Often you have to cut out something that could have fleshed out one aspect of the narrative so that the overall product comes out better (e.g. we don't see Luke really grieving over Owen and Beru, which could seem like a heck of an oversight, but that means we're able to keep the plot moving and get to the introduction of key characters like Han that much sooner). I think the Stormtroopers were just a victim of one such tradeoff.

 

It probably made for a better movie overall that we didn't have screen time devoted to seeing the Stormtroopers attacking the Sandcrawler with their "precise" shots or wiping out the Lars homestead, or by adding more scenes that could have showed them being the "elite" force that the dialogue says they're supposed to be. But those narrative choices did mean that much of their actual screen-time was made up of instances where we saw them being ineffective - so viewers' perception of them started to skew.

 

Stormtroopers were a legitimate threat to the "redshirts" of the Rebels, but in the narrative we saw portrayed on-screen, they never served as anything more than obstacles to the main characters. And, since the story follows the main characters, that is the impression of the Stormtroopers that sticks for many viewers.

 

They also seem to forget that R2 was shot and so was Leia at the Battle of Endor.

 

But I digress, I just wanted to get all that out in the open.

 

I'm not saying Stormtroopers are immune to the 'bad guy' trope thing, but to say their aiming capabilities suck and can't hit anything is complete exaggeration.

 

Also I'm getting really annoyed of having to login over and over again, every couple of times I come on here..

Edited October 14, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

They also seem to forget that R2 was shot and so was Leia at the Battle of Endor.

 

But I digress, I just wanted to get all that out in the open.

 

I'm not saying Stormtroopers are immune to the 'bad guy' trope thing, but to say their aiming capabilities suck and can't hit anything is complete exaggeration.

 

Also I'm getting really annoyed of having to login over and over again, every couple of times I come on here..

 

They hit them there yes. But they also missed as the group fled cloud city, and didnt hit 3PO on Hoth during their retreat either (my belief for this one is who the hell shoots at a protocol droid when their are people with guns right behind it. IE they werent aiming at 3PO they didnt care)

 

That being said, but at least watching the movie and even the most recent episode there are only a couple moments that make me shake my head at the stormtroopers and go REALLY?

 

The first is being tricked by Ezra that was dumb. The second was the most recent episode when Zeb picked up a couple and knocked down a majority of them with just a couple throws. Though that second I let pass a little. Zeb is Royal Gaurd and while we can talk about Stormtroopers being Elite we know SEVERAL other groups were MORE Elite.

 

Royal Gaurds

Some Mandolorians.

Storm Trooper Special Forces

Rebel Special Forces

and Special Ops groups on both sides.

ISB agents

Force Users

 

 

That being said there were still several times I FELT the threat of the Storm Troopers. During the trap in the first episode. Also I still argue that when Kanaan went "Matrix" on them (by the way EVERY Jedi can or has done this before I can pull up points in the movies where Quigon, Obi-wan, Mace Windu all dodged Blaster fire, Luke has done so. Others with Latent force abilities that dont know how to use it but get warning do so, hell every single jedi pilot does so while flying a space craft much more difficult.) they were a good shot only about 2 were firing and nearly killed him several times, the rest were firing on the group behind the crates supressing them and pinning them down 100% successfully as no one behind those crates could move or attempt to take a shot with out their heads being blown off.

 

The most recent episode the storm troopers nearly Killed Kaanan AND Hera. And not ONCE has the crew stuck around to fight the Imperials. They retreat EVERY time. And most of the time when they are ambushed they are ambushed NEAR the ship allowing for that easy escape. The Crew of The Ghost relies entirely on staying one step ahead. Heck we even had a Random Imperial figure things out half way decently which caused the first retreat the group had to do.

 

Kallus did fail me the most recent episode though. He brings in walkers and troopers for the people on the ground.... and no Star Destroyers waiting in Space for the Crew just in case they got away, Serious lack of Judgement.

 

That being said I feel of all the "faceless villians" we have gotten in Star Wars so far the Storm Troopers are still the best. They may not be as good as we were all hoping but they are assuredly a threat. Also as far as I can tell this takes place in a time not long after episode 3 so the Storm Trooper academies might not be quite up to being as good as they are later on.

[Wolfninjajedi]

They hit them there yes. But they also missed as the group fled cloud city, and didnt hit 3PO on Hoth during their retreat either (my belief for this one is who the hell shoots at a protocol droid when their are people with guns right behind it. IE they werent aiming at 3PO they didnt care)

 

That being said, but at least watching the movie and even the most recent episode there are only a couple moments that make me shake my head at the stormtroopers and go REALLY?

 

The first is being tricked by Ezra that was dumb. The second was the most recent episode when Zeb picked up a couple and knocked down a majority of them with just a couple throws. Though that second I let pass a little. Zeb is Royal Gaurd and while we can talk about Stormtroopers being Elite we know SEVERAL other groups were MORE Elite.

 

Royal Gaurds

Some Mandolorians.

Storm Trooper Special Forces

Rebel Special Forces

and Special Ops groups on both sides.

ISB agents

Force Users

 

 

That being said there were still several times I FELT the threat of the Storm Troopers. During the trap in the first episode. Also I still argue that when Kanaan went "Matrix" on them (by the way EVERY Jedi can or has done this before I can pull up points in the movies where Quigon, Obi-wan, Mace Windu all dodged Blaster fire, Luke has done so. Others with Latent force abilities that dont know how to use it but get warning do so, hell every single jedi pilot does so while flying a space craft much more difficult.) they were a good shot only about 2 were firing and nearly killed him several times, the rest were firing on the group behind the crates supressing them and pinning them down 100% successfully as no one behind those crates could move or attempt to take a shot with out their heads being blown off.

 

The most recent episode the storm troopers nearly Killed Kaanan AND Hera. And not ONCE has the crew stuck around to fight the Imperials. They retreat EVERY time. And most of the time when they are ambushed they are ambushed NEAR the ship allowing for that easy escape. The Crew of The Ghost relies entirely on staying one step ahead. Heck we even had a Random Imperial figure things out half way decently which caused the first retreat the group had to do.

 

Kallus did fail me the most recent episode though. He brings in walkers and troopers for the people on the ground.... and no Star Destroyers waiting in Space for the Crew just in case they got away, Serious lack of Judgement.

 

That being said I feel of all the "faceless villians" we have gotten in Star Wars so far the Storm Troopers are still the best. They may not be as good as we were all hoping but they are assuredly a threat. Also as far as I can tell this takes place in a time not long after episode 3 so the Storm Trooper academies might not be quite up to being as good as they are later on.

 

Right but Vader was wanting the group captured, hence why they missed hitting Leia and co because Vader wanted them alive. So Stormtroopers missing on Cloud City seems to be again, under orders by Vader as to not kill them.

 

As per the groups, right although Zeb seems to be the exception to that as Kallaus wiped out the Royal Guards of Zeb's home planet so...

 

Rebel SpecForce....depends on which you mean

 

ISB agents...eh....depends.

 

As far as Academies go...they are up and running, the Empire got them from the Old Republic if you remember. So they still have the Academy of Carida in training Stormtroopers.

 

Although right, the Ghost crew does regularly retreat so...guess that's a plus..

 

I just hope it picks up when the Inquistor appears next episode.

 

Although the preview with Ezra with fruit and the Stormtrooper asking "you did this all...for fruit?" Was just...ugh...

Edited October 14, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

Right but Vader was wanting the group captured, hence why they missed hitting Leia and co because Vader wanted them alive. So Stormtroopers missing on Cloud City seems to be again, under orders by Vader as to not kill them.

 

As per the groups, right although Zeb seems to be the exception to that as Kallaus wiped out the Royal Guards of Zeb's home planet so...

 

Rebel SpecForce....depends on which you mean

 

ISB agents...eh....depends.

 

As far as Academies go...they are up and running, the Empire got them from the Old Republic if you remember. So they still have the Academy of Carida in training Stormtroopers.

 

Although right, the Ghost crew does regularly retreat so...guess that's a plus..

 

I just hope it picks up when the Inquistor appears next episode.

 

Although the preview with Ezra with fruit and the Stormtrooper asking "you did this all...for fruit?" Was just...ugh...

 

 

I think that just says the Skill of Kallus more so then the negative of Zeb or the Royal Gaurds as a Whole.

 

Any of the Special Forces members should be better 1v1 against storm troopers, except against Special Forces Storm Troopers. Remember that the Battle of Hoth had both standard Storm Troopers and Special Forces Storm Troopers AND the rebels were out manned and outgunned. Though depending on how they look at it, they were still successful as a vast majority of the Rebel Base escaped which was their only Job no one expected them to win when they had 0 equipment capable of handling AT-AT's, just like the only Reason the AT-AT's were even taken down is they didnt consider the T47's a threat until the Cables brought a couple down and their primary mission was to allow Vader to land.

 

And While I didnt mean the Academies werent "up and Running" I meant more along the lines of the training standards for a Storm trooper might not be as high right now, as the Empire might not see the purpose of grunt soldiers being competent. Something the Ghost Crew may have a hand in changing the Empires mind. Maybe we will see later seasons where they bring in "new stormtroopers straight out of the academy" and all of a sudden our heroes find themselves in serious trouble.

 

But ya some of those previews make me cringe.

 

Like one with Kanaan asking Zeb if he is "embarissing the empire again" and Zeb responding "Honestly it's hard not to"

[Wolfninjajedi]

I think that just says the Skill of Kallus more so then the negative of Zeb or the Royal Gaurds as a Whole.

 

Any of the Special Forces members should be better 1v1 against storm troopers, except against Special Forces Storm Troopers. Remember that the Battle of Hoth had both standard Storm Troopers and Special Forces Storm Troopers AND the rebels were out manned and outgunned. Though depending on how they look at it, they were still successful as a vast majority of the Rebel Base escaped which was their only Job no one expected them to win when they had 0 equipment capable of handling AT-AT's, just like the only Reason the AT-AT's were even taken down is they didnt consider the T47's a threat until the Cables brought a couple down and their primary mission was to allow Vader to land.

 

And While I didnt mean the Academies werent "up and Running" I meant more along the lines of the training standards for a Storm trooper might not be as high right now, as the Empire might not see the purpose of grunt soldiers being competent. Something the Ghost Crew may have a hand in changing the Empires mind. Maybe we will see later seasons where they bring in "new stormtroopers straight out of the academy" and all of a sudden our heroes find themselves in serious trouble.

 

But ya some of those previews make me cringe.

 

Like one with Kanaan asking Zeb if he is "embarissing the empire again" and Zeb responding "Honestly it's hard not to"

 

What SF Stormtroopers were at the Battle of Hoth? They were just the specialized Stormtrooper Snowtroopers from Blizzard Force, specialized Stormtroopers aren't SF, they just have variant Stormtroopers for different types of terrain and the Rebels had Wilderness Fighters ontop of regular Rebel Troopers fighting against them and they were rolled over still even in Echo Base.

 

Eh...probably I guess on the Academy bit....although if they really were wanting to do right, they should be using Imperial Army Troopers, not Stormtroopers for everything. Imperial Army Troopers are good enough and highly trained, but they aren't elite troops.

 

Although I haven't seen Stormtrooper piloting any vehicles, so it seems to me they are keeping the Stormtroopers as strict infantry forces at least and they do seem to be giving back the Stormtrooper armor durability of being able to survive explosions as a group of them survived a TIE fighter exploding next to them.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

What SF Stormtroopers were at the Battle of Hoth? They were just the specialized Stormtrooper Snowtroopers from Blizzard Force, specialized Stormtroopers aren't SF, they just have variant Stormtroopers for different types of terrain and the Rebels had Wilderness Fighters fighting against them and they were rolled over still even in Echo Base.

 

Eh...probably I guess on the Academy bit....although if they really were wanting to do right, they should be using Imperial Army Troopers, not Stormtroopers for everything. Imperial Army Troopers are good enough and highly trained, but they aren't elite troops.

 

Ya but as we know most dont know their lore enough to know about the Army Troopers. They were also outnumbered and out gunned. Once they got into the base I was under the assumption that Rebels didnt have many Special Forces IN the base at that point it became mostly Normal troopers. A lot of Rebel Special Forces were Storm Troopers at one time, heck some Rebel Troopers were. The Special Forces training for Rebels last I checked was the same training Storm Trooper Special Forces got so both Rebel Special Forces and Storm Trooper Special Forces were on the same level which are both themselves higher then Stormtrooper standard. The biggest difference ended up being equipment, the empire just had access to more people and more equipment. That being said, I dont know how many times I have said it, it doesnt matter how skilled you are, you get shot with 1 blast from a blaster of sufficient strength to ignore your armor and your done. So numerically superior and superior equipment Snow Troopers (who also have better gear protecting them against the harsh conditions) vs Rebel Wilderness fighters who just have better training. The fight SHOULD be in the Storm Troopers Favor, but the Rebels were more then skilled enough to accomplish their mission. Assure the safety of the Rebel leadership and a vast majority of Rebel Assets. For more Rebels successfully fled then were killed that day.

 

Mission Accomplished.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Ya but as we know most dont know their lore enough to know about the Army Troopers. They were also outnumbered and out gunned. Once they got into the base I was under the assumption that Rebels didnt have many Special Forces IN the base at that point it became mostly Normal troopers. A lot of Rebel Special Forces were Storm Troopers at one time, heck some Rebel Troopers were. The Special Forces training for Rebels last I checked was the same training Storm Trooper Special Forces got so both Rebel Special Forces and Storm Trooper Special Forces were on the same level which are both themselves higher then Stormtrooper standard. The biggest difference ended up being equipment, the empire just had access to more people and more equipment. That being said, I dont know how many times I have said it, it doesnt matter how skilled you are, you get shot with 1 blast from a blaster of sufficient strength to ignore your armor and your done. So numerically superior and superior equipment Snow Troopers (who also have better gear protecting them against the harsh conditions) vs Rebel Wilderness fighters who just have better training. The fight SHOULD be in the Storm Troopers Favor, but the Rebels were more then skilled enough to accomplish their mission. Assure the safety of the Rebel leadership and a vast majority of Rebel Assets. For more Rebels successfully fled then were killed that day.

 

Mission Accomplished.

 

Rebel SpecForces being former Stormtroopers?....Eh? Rebel Troopers being former Stormtroopers? Eh?

 

Suppose you have sources on those, cause I don't and sources I have say Stormtroopers are heavily indoctrination and attempts are bribing, seducing or defection almost never actually happen.

 

A large percent of SpecForce troops are former Imperial soldiers, but I don't see anything about Stormtroopers.

 

The Rebellion had Imperial Officers defecting and the like, but I don't recall any Stormtroopers doing so with the exception of Kyle Katarn and this was due to finding out the Imperial murdered his family.

 

Even then I would say they are a small minority. Eh I wouldn't say that Rebel SF and Empire SF is the same training wise, they both have high standards with the Empire having a slightly higher washout rate. I'd say the Empire SF has a slightly better training than Rebel SF if only due to much better facilities ontop of instructors, whereas Rebel SF just has the latter.

 

Although I will say yes, Rebel SF are > to regular Stormtroopers but I wouldn't say the gap is too wide.

 

The Imperial Army Troopers are noted by SpecForce to be highly trained and able to put up a good fight and are respected by SpecForce. Stormtroopers on the other hand are a threat to anything they engage, which would include Rebel SpecForce.

 

Army Troopers > Stormtroopers in terms of training/combat capability.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

Rebel SpecForces being former Stormtroopers?....Eh? Rebel Troopers being former Stormtroopers? Eh?

 

Suppose you have sources on those, cause I don't and sources I have say Stormtroopers are heavily indoctrination and attempts are bribing, seducing or defection almost never actually happen.

 

A large percent of SpecForce troops are former Imperial soldiers, but I don't see anything about Stormtroopers.

 

The Rebellion had Imperial Officers defecting and the like, but I don't recall any Stormtroopers doing so with the exception of Kyle Katarn and this was due to finding out the Imperial murdered his family.

 

Even then I would say they are a small minority. Eh I wouldn't say that Rebel SF and Empire SF is the same training wise, they both have high standards with the Empire having a slightly higher washout rate. I'd say the Empire SF has a slightly better training than Rebel SF if only due to much better facilities ontop of instructors, whereas Rebel SF just has the latter.

 

Although I will say yes, Rebel SF are > to regular Stormtroopers but I wouldn't say the gap is too wide.

 

The Imperial Army Troopers are noted by SpecForce to be highly trained and able to put up a good fight and are respected by SpecForce. Stormtroopers on the other hand are a threat to anything they engage, which would include Rebel SpecForce.

 

Army Troopers > Stormtroopers in terms of training/combat capability.

 

Yes stormtroopers are still a threat, but last I checked it was more then just Kyle Katarn. And Madine used to train Imperial Special Forces before defecting and Training Rebel Special Forces.

 

At the End of the day I pretty much agree with everything here. I am pretty sure there is still at least a few Special Ops, Spec Forces that used to be storm troopers.

 

but overall yes

 

Storm Trooper Special Forces> Rebel Special Forces > Storm Troopers> Rebel Army > Imperial Army (as we said a lot of the rebel army were former Imperial Army)

[Wolfninjajedi]

Yes stormtroopers are still a threat, but last I checked it was more then just Kyle Katarn. And Madine used to train Imperial Special Forces before defecting and Training Rebel Special Forces.

 

At the End of the day I pretty much agree with everything here. I am pretty sure there is still at least a few Special Ops, Spec Forces that used to be storm troopers.

 

but overall yes

 

Storm Trooper Special Forces> Rebel Special Forces > Storm Troopers> Rebel Army > Imperial Army (as we said a lot of the rebel army were former Imperial Army)

 

Yeah but Madine was an Imperial Army Officer, he wasn't a Stormtrooper. But yes he did rig up the Storm Commandos and did lead them before defecting to the Alliance and establishing Rebel SpecForce.

 

I'd put it more like this...

 

Stormtrooper SF > Rebel SF > Stormtrooper > Imperial Army > Rebel Army

 

Army Troopers may have defected, but the Rebellion was still mostly made up of those from oppressed worlds, or those looking to fight the Empire and so on.

 

Of course, there's a marginal difference between many of these with different factors, so it's rather variable.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

Yeah but Madine was an Imperial Army Officer, he wasn't a Stormtrooper. But yes he did rig up the Storm Commandos and did lead them before defecting to the Alliance and establishing Rebel SpecForce.

 

I'd put it more like this...

 

Stormtrooper SF > Rebel SF > Stormtrooper > Imperial Army > Rebel Army

 

Army Troopers may have defected, but the Rebellion was still mostly made up of those from oppressed worlds, or those looking to fight the Empire and so on.

 

Of course, there's a marginal difference between many of these with different factors, so it's rather variable.

 

Ya I could see that and ya the Marginal difference is almost small enough that most of the time the equipment and the numbers is going to decide the victor more so then the force itself. Like Stormtroopers can totally overwhelm Rebel SF with a marginal Numerical and Equipment advantage.

 

Also to be fair to the portrail of the Empire in Star Wars Rebels, remember the opening of the Series Premier (not the movie but the episodic series premier "episode 3" if you will) had them fleeing from the Empire escaping but NOT with the goods. First thing they talk about is how they are low on Food, Fuel and Ammo and that these Solo Ops arent working, they need to do a Job for the Criminal Organization again (I dont remember the guys name) they have the intel to make those Jobs a success. Pretty much saying that The Ghost crew can't do a successful Op against the Empire without Criminal Organization Intel groups. The Empire has to many resources, is to well equiped and to well organized for them to really have a good success rate at the moment. Its only with Criminal Cells that the can even hope to get a success against the empire, and even then as the episode showed its not a resounding success, because while the Empire lost the Disruptors, the crew did bassically walk out empty handed battered and bruised if it wasnt for R2 and 3PO they would have been the same situation they were in at the start of the episode, if not worse (more food, fuel and ammo used up)

 

 

Also if we compare this a little to TCW most of TCW was them in a straight fight trying to outsmart droids or what have you with a few Covert missions or Force Exploring, or Comedic/ Political episodes thrown in. Thus far Rebels has been all Covert Ops missions, almost saying the different kind of war the Rebellion is. Its not a straight war between 2 fairly even factions its a Small band trying to hit Imperial Supplies, and ultimately barely putting a dent in the Empire their greatest effect so far is the hope they give others rather then the damage they have done to the Empire.

Edited October 14, 2014 by tunewalker

[Wolfninjajedi]

Ya I could see that and ya the Marginal difference is almost small enough that most of the time the equipment and the numbers is going to decide the victor more so then the force itself. Like Stormtroopers can totally overwhelm Rebel SF with a marginal Numerical and Equipment advantage.

 

Also to be fair to the portrail of the Empire in Star Wars Rebels, remember the opening of the Series Premier (not the movie but the episodic series premier "episode 3" if you will) had them fleeing from the Empire escaping but NOT with the goods. First thing they talk about is how they are low on Food, Fuel and Ammo and that these Solo Ops arent working, they need to do a Job for the Criminal Organization again (I dont remember the guys name) they have the intel to make those Jobs a success. Pretty much saying that The Ghost crew can't do a successful Op against the Empire without Criminal Organization Intel groups. The Empire has to many resources, is to well equiped and to well organized for them to really have a good success rate at the moment. Its only with Criminal Cells that the can even hope to get a success against the empire, and even then as the episode showed its not a resounding success, because while the Empire lost the Disruptors, the crew did bassically walk out empty handed battered and bruised if it wasnt for R2 and 3PO they would have been the same situation they were in at the start of the episode, if not worse (more food, fuel and ammo used up)

 

 

Also if we compare this a little to TCW most of TCW was them in a straight fight trying to outsmart droids or what have you with a few Covert missions or Force Exploring, or Comedic/ Political episodes thrown in. Thus far Rebels has been all Covert Ops missions, almost saying the different kind of war the Rebellion is. Its not a straight war between 2 fairly even factions its a Small band trying to hit Imperial Supplies, and ultimately barely putting a dent in the Empire their greatest effect so far is the hope they give others rather then the damage they have done to the Empire.

 

Yeah and next episode is them going after fruit....but at least we finally get to see the Inquistor and possible Imperial training sequences with the Empire seeing as Ezara seems to be in one of them according to the previews.

 

I just hope 3PO and R2 don't appear anymore, or hardly...I don't want them showing up really, I want new characters to go over not old ones.

[tunewalker]

Yeah and next episode is them going after fruit....but at least we finally get to see the Inquistor and possible Imperial training sequences with the Empire seeing as Ezara seems to be in one of them according to the previews.

 

I just hope 3PO and R2 don't appear anymore, or hardly...I don't want them showing up really, I want new characters to go over not old ones.

 

Absolutely agreed. New Characters are who I want to see explored. I Dont think I would have an issue if Governor Tarkin showed up though. He has been explored a little but not all that much in Visual Media and this is a place where he SHOULD be as this IS his domain and he is the Governor of this area.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Absolutely agreed. New Characters are who I want to see explored. I Dont think I would have an issue if Governor Tarkin showed up though. He has been explored a little but not all that much in Visual Media and this is a place where he SHOULD be as this IS his domain and he is the Governor of this area.

 

Tarkin would be fine, just no 3PO or R2, they have enough.