The best way to deal with a side using seven Gunships?

[FBPL]

I'm asking the question because a member of a team I was on recently argued that the best defence against said Horde'O'Gunship™ was to use lots of bombers and draw them onto us. A tactic totally at odds with switching to Scouts and getting in close for kills with lasers and rockets, a tactic which was taught to me by several players better than I. (Approach from an odd angle, boost engines, hold spacebar, evasion buffs, jink, boost weapons, barrel roll past them, split S turn and then pop them with everything you have. You all know the drill I'm sure.)

 

I was convinced that the Gunships would simply pop all their mines/drones/beacons, pop the bombers, then continue popping us. They argued otherwise, insisting that we had to draw the Gunships onto their defences...

 

Can you use Bombers to defeat an opposing side that is Gunship heavy? Have I missed a briefing somewhere and if so can someone clue me in on how to do it?

Edited September 18, 2014 by FBPL

[SammyGStatus]

As a GS pilot, I can say that I can't take on a group of 8 bombers either :/

[FBPL]

I ought to add, this is in a TDM, not a Dom match.

[Nemarus]

I ought to add, this is in a TDM, not a Dom match.

 

In Domination, all Bombers would be hard to beat.

 

But in TDM, I don't see how they'd be at-all effective against 7 Gunships. The Gunships have 15km range. The most range a Bomber has is 11k with a torpedo or 10k with a railgun drone.

 

As soon as the Gunships kill one Bomber with focus-fire, they've won. They have no reason to come within 999km of you, let alone 15km, let alone 10km.

 

Honestly there is no perfect answer, because pretty much every ship stacks super-well with itself. This is a problem we've been telling BioWare for months. My advice would be to play on a server with a less boring GSF population.

[Drakkolich]

I'm asking the question because a member of a team I was on recently argued that the best defence against said Horde'O'Gunship™ was to use lots of bombers and draw them onto us. A tactic totally at odds with switching to Scouts and getting in close for kills with lasers and rockets, a tactic which was taught to me by several players better than I. (Approach from an odd angle, boost engines, hold spacebar, evasion buffs, jink, boost weapons, barrel roll past them, split S turn and then pop them with everything you have. You all know the drill I'm sure.)

 

I was convinced that the Gunships would simply pop all their mines/drones/beacons, pop the bombers, then continue popping us. They argued otherwise, insisting that we had to draw the Gunships onto their defences...

 

Can you use Bombers to defeat an opposing side that is Gunship heavy? Have I missed a briefing somewhere and if so can someone clue me in on how to do it?

 

If we are talking theretical best way to kill 7 or even 8 gunship teams, and you have control over everyship your tema is flying and how they fly it I would do this.

 

5 Mangers, 2 with running interference 3 with wingman, all clustered in one spot.

Have 1 legion with interdiction drones, seeker mines and repair drone Stack ontop of the gunships. The repair drone should be behind the gunships if you arn't surrounded, which would be easy with team positioning. The seekers and interdiction drones are only there to absorb gunship shots.

Have 1 Imperium with Repair probes (shield repair) and Shield Projector. Spaming these abilities. Both Legion and imperium can take wingman and running interference aswell to stack defences for the gunships.

Last on my team I would have 1 full evasion scout just hanging around the gunships targeting anything trying to speed in and snipe a kill.

 

So basically I'd counter a gunship wall with a gunship Pile with tons and tons of heals and buffs on my gunships.

 

Now in practice you can never do this cause no one wants to just sit there and wait. But its an interesting thought experiment. Spamming 8 bombers to counter gunships will never be an optimal strat as all the gunships have to do is kill 1 of your bombers then go hide in open space and wait for the timer to run out.

[Ryuku-sama]

If we are talking theretical best way to kill 7 or even 8 gunship teams, and you have control over everyship your tema is flying and how they fly it I would do this.

 

5 Mangers, 2 with running interference 3 with wingman, all clustered in one spot.

Have 1 legion with interdiction drones, seeker mines and repair drone Stack ontop of the gunships. The repair drone should be behind the gunships if you arn't surrounded, which would be easy with team positioning. The seekers and interdiction drones are only there to absorb gunship shots.

Have 1 Imperium with Repair probes (shield repair) and Shield Projector. Spaming these abilities. Both Legion and imperium can take wingman and running interference aswell to stack defences for the gunships.

Last on my team I would have 1 full evasion scout just hanging around the gunships targeting anything trying to speed in and snipe a kill.

 

So basically I'd counter a gunship wall with a gunship Pile with tons and tons of heals and buffs on my gunships.

 

Now in practice you can never do this cause no one wants to just sit there and wait. But its an interesting thought experiment. Spamming 8 bombers to counter gunships will never be an optimal strat as all the gunships have to do is kill 1 of your bombers then go hide in open space and wait for the timer to run out.

 

Well. Best strat against 8 Sheeps IMO?? Go with 8 Nova StE + TT + Pods. StE is better against gunship than Disto simply because they are all running Wingman and don,t have any missile (assuming no T2 or T3) And you can take and Ion, StE once, get in range and kill.

Best strat against 8 'Bot??? Hide and pray he doesn't want you dead

[FBPL]

Valid point made about the Gunships only needing to kill a single bomber then wait it out.

 

When I pointed out that not all of us had Bombers to switch to, they suggested that the rest of us in should draw the Gunships onto the mines he had hidden behind an asteroid... (Why can I hear Gunship pilots laughing from here? )

[mattycutts]

I'm asking the question because a member of a team I was on recently argued that the best defence against said Horde'O'Gunship™ was to use lots of bombers and draw them onto us. A tactic totally at odds with switching to Scouts and getting in close for kills with lasers and rockets, a tactic which was taught to me by several players better than I. (Approach from an odd angle, boost engines, hold spacebar, evasion buffs, jink, boost weapons, barrel roll past them, split S turn and then pop them with everything you have. You all know the drill I'm sure.)

 

I was convinced that the Gunships would simply pop all their mines/drones/beacons, pop the bombers, then continue popping us. They argued otherwise, insisting that we had to draw the Gunships onto their defences...

 

Can you use Bombers to defeat an opposing side that is Gunship heavy? Have I missed a briefing somewhere and if so can someone clue me in on how to do it?

 

Im from same server and see the problem u experience, more often than not its the empire side that runs heavy GS/Bomber groups in TDM.

 

Personally i prefer the scout approach loaded with rockets and hydro spanner. I use this set up that works extremely well for me, and if u ever seen me in a match i never finish with more deaths than kills but what i do is go grab a engine boost, do some strifing runs on gunships, this is based on them actually being good gunships the key is to agrevate them as much as poss and never sitting still, once u take some damage duck behind something get a bit of hull back rinse and repeat, by time im done most of them are locked on me moment i come into sight, what this means is the other 7 players in ya team can finish them off.

 

If its average gunships, ill not stop till i kill them.

 

Drop me a whisper in game can team up, i play both sides.

 

Good hunting

[RatPoison]

If all things were equal... namely the skill of the pilots for each team, then the primary response to the tactic once known as "gunship bukkake" is not much different from tactics that would be employed in a 1 v 1 scenario.

 

The goal is to push them off their selected spot and force them into flying evasively. Of course, when you're 1 v 1, this is far easier to accomplish.

 

When faced against a whole team of gunships you're inevitably reliant on your teammates on being able to disrupt, push, and pursue each a different gunship. This differing aspect to a 1 v 1 fight can be compared to a life science reproduction concept called massing. What this means is that if your attempts are performed with only a couple of ships at a time, then you will understandably be picked off. Massing, to simplify, is a strategy that involves all members of a population birthing, hatching, etc their offspring at relatively the same time. Of course, in the context of this thread, it's killing and chasing gunships as a group. While a portion of these offspring (your teammates) will likely die to predators the whole of the population is more likely to successful because predators can't get all of them. But the key is to engage them all together. Stragglers, and trickling into the death zone won't be very successful.

 

The short of it, it can't be done alone and your teammates must actively and effectively engage the gunships together with any tactic that has success in a 1 v 1 fight.

 

Of course, this is assuming that all things are equal regarding the skill level of the teams... and this is rarely the case. I find that skill still leads the way as a response to this issue. I've been a part of teams that have mowed down, for the most part, TDM teams full of gunships flown by inexperienced players. And of course, I've been on the receiving end of beat downs, both with a team that was using gunships, and those where the opposition did.

 

From experience, when facing a beat down by a team of gunships in TDM with a team that either is unskilled or has no real interest or know-how in winning... I will fly a gunship in response. This is more or less because I know I can't fly into a 3 and 4+ gunships on anything and expect to survive when my teammates are dropping like flies. It also gives me the advantage of using range, dampening sensors, and hopefully some tactical positioning to at least pick off some kills. If my team is at least somewhat competent and flying a couple gunships, another strategy I will employ is one of baiting and distraction. Even though it will likely be met with heavy damage or death, a fast, evasive, scout that can close the gap will likely get the favor of being targeted by most of the gunships. With that said, obviously their attention and hopefully direction of focus has changed allowing other ships to successfully shoot from a far and/or close the distance. This concept goes hand in hand with disrupting and pushing gunships off their spots. I find rocket pods and a blaster with a longer range helps in reaching out and touching as many of these gunships as possible.

 

**Oh, and a side note... knowing your competition's flying style can be helpful. For example, I know there are a handful of pilots that fly primarily or only gunships, and that when they are in their gunships... if they are even just grazed, that they're more than likely going to break off from their spot to retreat. I'll take note of these pilots and make sure that at every presented opportunity I pop them once, provoking them to run away. I've gone whole matches doing this to one notable pilot on our server and it is so effective that they've finished some matches with just a couple of kills, less than 25k total damage, etc... If you know of a few pilots like that, then this will at least help diminish the difference in numbers for a short time period.

Edited September 18, 2014 by RatPoison

[nyghtrunner]

I think it's somewhat dependent on your situation, but intuitively, I'd want a slightly lopsided split between scouts and gunships, with a +1 scout on the split.

 

The really tricky part is the teamwork aspect, because you'd need to have the scouts release and go harass the opposing Gunships. With enemy attention on the scouts, allied Gunships should have pretty clear lines to wreak havoc on the opposition. But everyone needs to be somewhat on the same page to do that.

 

If they've got bombers, and do a battle-ball, the best way to combat that might actually be a group of ion rails with the AoE?

 

Outside of Domination, though, I can't see why a group of nothing but gunships would be scared of bombers. Maybe if enough of the bombers have rail drones, but gunship rails still have better range.

 

As a pilot who prefers scouts, though, I can definitely relate to how frustrating it can be when the opposing team goes really heavy on the Gunships. If I don't have team cover, I can't really do much if the opposition is well spaced, and are covering each other/have good awareness.

 

EDIT - I definitely think all scouts would have a much better chance in a TDM against all gunships than all bombers would... In TDM, bombers are one of the least intimidating ships out there on their own. The only time they're really that good is if they're creating minefields around their allied funships so that scouts have a hard time closing the gap. As a scout, if I catch a bomber in open space, he's generally toast. If the TDM is melee heavy, you can usually afford to just utterly ignore bombers.

Edited September 18, 2014 by nyghtrunner

[tommmsunb]

Scouts running burst/pods or quads/pods are the best for solo.

Type 3 gunships if you can get a partner.

 

Anything with retro really because you can typically time when most gunship pilots are going to release their blast and then make a 90 degree rotation and hit retro in time to avoid all of their shots and then keep moving. A 170 degree would also work quite well if you want to clear a little bit more distance

 

Side note, there will be people who say that that is "wasting" your engine ability. Those people are wrong and should never be listened to.

Edited September 18, 2014 by tommmsunb

[Gavin_Kelvar]

Scouts running burst/pods or quads/pods are the best for solo.

Type 3 gunships if you can get a partner.

 

This pretty much. I've found that so long as the GS aren't a premade/lack organization to be efficiently covering each other a scout with pods can really cause havoc among the GS horde. Against a horde that is on VOIP/effectively covering each other you're pretty well screwed as a solo though.

[KE_Maverick]

I'm asking the question because a member of a team I was on recently argued that the best defence against said Horde'O'Gunship™ was to use lots of bombers and draw them onto us. A tactic totally at odds with switching to Scouts and getting in close for kills with lasers and rockets, a tactic which was taught to me by several players better than I. (Approach from an odd angle, boost engines, hold spacebar, evasion buffs, jink, boost weapons, barrel roll past them, split S turn and then pop them with everything you have. You all know the drill I'm sure.)

 

I was convinced that the Gunships would simply pop all their mines/drones/beacons, pop the bombers, then continue popping us. They argued otherwise, insisting that we had to draw the Gunships onto their defences...

 

Can you use Bombers to defeat an opposing side that is Gunship heavy? Have I missed a briefing somewhere and if so can someone clue me in on how to do it?

 

Well, in my personal opinion there isn't much that can be done against a Horde of GS and Bombers, when they all nest at one Point, covering each other and being covered by a huge mine field. In fact i would even say that defies the purpose of the name Galactic "Star Fighter" by far.

 

So all you can hope for in a Scenario like that is to sit far beyond the range of those GS, wait and hope they move eventually out of that nasty mine field and out of the cover of the other GS around.

 

Even tho I really do support the idea of some sort of tactical play and not just having dog fights all along, were it all just Comes down to flying in circles around each other and the one with the better turn rate wins. But the power of GS and Bombers has gotten way out of hand and Balance, that we do have to face those ridiculous scenarios that a Setup contains 5 GS and 3 Bombers out of 8 players in the match.

 

With a Setup like that i have seen Deathmatches ending with a score of something like 10 : 8 because both sides just sat back and waited for the one breaking out of the group and moving in on the enemy to get a kill wich is not automatically also a suicidal mission. I really doubt that was the Intention of Bioware to have matches ending like that, when the primary goal is to win the match at 50 kills.

 

Hence in my opinion the only decent solution is if Bioware would limit the spread of ships.

For example for every 4 Players in the match 1 GS and 1 Bomber, so it would be a maximum of 3 GS and 3 Bombers, each side, in a full house 12 man vs. 12 man match.

So that each player selects at queing, just like with flashpoints in Group Finder, what role he / she would like to be in the next match and then getting an available role assigned.

With a solution like that it would also be much more intersting for new players with unmastered ships and only having the Scout and the Strike Fighter available, to play somewhat decent matches, when they don't have to go in "tin cans" against 5 mastered GS.

 

Or, Bioware reduces the strength of those "Tactical Support" ships back to what they are supposed to be, only Support and not the primary power in matches.

[Fractalsponge]

Well, in my personal opinion there isn't much that can be done against a Horde of GS and Bombers, when they all nest at one Point, covering each other and being covered by a huge mine field. In fact i would even say that defies the purpose of the name Galactic "Star Fighter" by far.

...

With a Setup like that i have seen Deathmatches ending with a score of something like 10 : 8 because both sides just sat back and waited for the one breaking out of the group and moving in on the enemy to get a kill wich is not automatically also a suicidal mission. I really doubt that was the Intention of Bioware to have matches ending like that, when the primary goal is to win the match at 50 kills.

 

I have almost 3000 matches. I can count on my fingers how often games like this (10-8) have happened. There are tactics to break these compositions. Here's the thing: if the group running that setup were actually good enough, they'd just roll over your team in whatever composition. Turtling up and farming newbies is a usually sign of weakness. Push at them with your own gunships and battlescouts, and these compositions usually crumble. PUGs have a hard time with syncing up to the flow of a match, but let's not kid ourselves - a team organized enough to do a bomber/gunship formation WELL is going to roll over unorganized teams flying strikes or whatever else.

 

Hence in my opinion the only decent solution is if Bioware would limit the spread of ships.

For example for every 4 Players in the match 1 GS and 1 Bomber, so it would be a maximum of 3 GS and 3 Bombers, each side, in a full house 12 man vs. 12 man match.

So that each player selects at queing, just like with flashpoints in Group Finder, what role he / she would like to be in the next match and then getting an available role assigned.

With a solution like that it would also be much more intersting for new players with unmastered ships and only having the Scout and the Strike Fighter available, to play somewhat decent matches, when they don't have to go in "tin cans" against 5 mastered GS.

 

Yeah, till we get cross server, this idea is DOA - look at the DPS queue times for flashpoints. Taking away choices for players is a bad move.

 

Gear is important in GSF, but it take only about 30k requisition to make a pretty functional ship. The trick is to give new players "protected" time at the low levels so they can practice. Best way to do that is to boost population, either with cross server or incentives like conquests to queue.

 

Or, Bioware reduces the strength of those "Tactical Support" ships back to what they are supposed to be, only Support and not the primary power in matches.

 

Where, pray tell, does it say they are supposed to be support ships only? They can perform a support role in many ways, but they are still combat ships. Take away their ability to do anything other than a narrowly defined task and you might as well just throw a bunch of NPC turrets into matches.

[Danylia]

Hence in my opinion the only decent solution is if Bioware would limit the spread of ships.

For example for every 4 Players in the match 1 GS and 1 Bomber, so it would be a maximum of 3 GS and 3 Bombers, each side, in a full house 12 man vs. 12 man match.

So that each player selects at queing, just like with flashpoints in Group Finder, what role he / she would like to be in the next match and then getting an available role assigned.

With a solution like that it would also be much more intersting for new players with unmastered ships and only having the Scout and the Strike Fighter available, to play somewhat decent matches, when they don't have to go in "tin cans" against 5 mastered GS.

Honestly? I would LOVE this. I really, really would. Limit the number of Gunships, Bombers (and probably Type 2 Scouts) in a match by making you choose the ship before you queue. You could still queue as anything, but by taking one of these aforementioned ships, you would risk longer waiting - same as DPS in Groupfinder, compared to tanks and healers. It would be great.

 

But it likely won't ever happen. The GSF population (without cross-server) isn't big enough to support this kind of change and keep the queue times reasonable. Bioware probably won't redo the mechanics, not to mention it would have to contain rather complex algorithms (to prevent "3 Aimbots vs. 3 stock Type 2 GS" matches). And last but not least, from my experience for many pilots the GS and Bomber are the only means to be competitive, and such change would flip them from "average at best" to "cannon fodder" (or would increase their waiting time exponentially).

[Fractalsponge]

Honestly? I would LOVE this. I really, really would. Limit the number of Gunships, Bombers (and probably Type 2 Scouts) in a match by making you choose the ship before you queue. You could still queue as anything, but by taking one of these aforementioned ships, you would risk longer waiting - same as DPS in Groupfinder, compared to tanks and healers. It would be great.

 

But it likely won't ever happen. The GSF population (without cross-server) isn't big enough to support this kind of change and keep the queue times reasonable. Bioware probably won't redo the mechanics, not to mention it would have to contain rather complex algorithms (to prevent "3 Aimbots vs. 3 stock Type 2 GS" matches). And last but not least, from my experience for many pilots the GS and Bomber are the only means to be competitive, and such change would flip them from "average at best" to "cannon fodder" (or would increase their waiting time exponentially).

 

Why stop with limiting numbers of type 2 scouts? ONE SHIP FOR EVERYONE. EQUALITY FOR ALL.

[TrinityLyre]

Solo? A gunship-slayer scout build (TT/pods/quads). StE/pods/LLC could work as well.

 

Team? Ion Maidens (standard build T1 gunship). Tag team enemies with one other skilled gunship and blow all 7 out of space no problem. Coordination and superior play will destroy most "cheesy" tactics.

Edited September 19, 2014 by TrinityLyre

[Icebergy]

A couple good scout pilots will make short work of seven gunships.