Rhyltran Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 The canon scale is obsolete now. Most of the supporting literature for the black and white Force in which the dark side is an unnatural cancer is no longer valid. The Clone Wars featured an entire story arc where the light and dark sides were posited as tragically opposed but equally vital natural conditions in the Galaxy. The Inquisitor in Rebels does not use swelling intensities of negative emotion to tap into the dark side but rather derives his power from his dedication to the mission and passion for results. Episode VII probably won't feature any heroic Sith, but the new Disney-approved canon is certainly different from the old canon's Force natures in some important areas. The old rules still apply to "Legends." which is what this game is. Star Wars Legends. The rules are consistent within that universe. As for Disney's Canon I think it would be more like.. Light/Dark are just as vital because you can't have good without evil. Star Wars was designed to have very little moral ambiguity and I don't think that's changing. Light = Good Dark = Bad. Some people don't like that simplistic nature but it's always been like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exosasa Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Fiction with actual rules. G/T/C/S/N Canon. It's not what I want to "Believe." when following those rules there's facts. You can't practice/embrace the dark side and be a good person. This is a fact within the confines of the Star Wars Universe. Bioware is aware of this which is why there's "Light Sith." and it's also why in SWTOR as a Sith Warrior you actually defeat and conquer your dark side. It's why your character straight up mentions when you confront a certain master to one of your companions that your character wears his own "Mask" in the Empire and seeks to change the Empire from within. The inquisitor says a similar line when following light side path with one of his companions. Your own characters essentially denounce the Dark Side. It's why all the Dark options are typically brutal, self serving, cruel, and harsh with very few exceptions. If Lana Beniko is their attempt at a Light Sith then she's following the Light more than the Dark. If you want a great lore example of someone who follows both sides? You have to look at Revan. He's fallen three times now. There are no good guys in all Star Wars lore who have embraced the Dark Side and have become upstanding individuals whom you can trust and rely on. There is zero. Nadda. Zilch. In short your statements about the force and the dark side are wrong. It's all inference, man. You can't debate opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) It's all inference, man. You can't debate opinions. Weren't you the one telling someone else how wrong they were? It's not inferrence and this isn't based on opinions. The actual lore, books, and quotes contradict what you're stating. Sorry, there's no opinion here. As you were telling someone else "Wrong, wrong, and wrong." You shouldn't be so quick to jump down someone's throat if you hate being proven wrong or you should make sure next time that what you're saying is correct. That's all there is to it. In fact, that's the exact reason I stepped in. "There is no room for compromise. We walk the path of the light side, or we fall into darkness. There is no gray area, Ben." ~ Jedi Grand Master Luke Skywalker (P. 187 FotJ, Book II: Omen) Luke Skywalker's opinion on the subject. Edited November 7, 2014 by Rhyltran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rashadk Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 She totally reminds me of that Cynthia doll from Rugrats. Pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exosasa Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 She totally reminds me of that Cynthia doll from Rugrats. Pic LOL. Weren't you the one telling someone else how wrong they were? It's not inferrence and this isn't based on opinions. The actual lore, books, and quotes contradict what you're stating. Sorry, there's no opinion here. As you were telling someone else "Wrong, wrong, and wrong." You shouldn't be so quick to jump down someone's throat if you hate being proven wrong or you should make sure next time that what you're saying is correct. That's all there is to it. In fact, that's the exact reason I stepped in. "There is no room for compromise. We walk the path of the light side, or we fall into darkness. There is no gray area, Ben." ~ Jedi Grand Master Luke Skywalker (P. 187 FotJ, Book II: Omen) Luke Skywalker's opinion on the subject. No, I stopped trying because I have no interest in trying to throw light at a mirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) LOL. No, I stopped trying because I have no interest in trying to throw light at a mirror. If you say so. Just know if you ever change your mind I have quotes from Lucas, the authors themselves, and from various novels. If there's something you're looking for? I have it. I am obsessed with Star Wars lore and have nearly every comic while also owning all of the Star Wars novels. I apologize if I came off as pompous but I jumped in only because you jumped on someone else for stating his opinions and it annoys me when someone claims certain things are opinions when I have sources/facts to back up my statements. I'd argue if you don't care to debate don't tell other people they're wrong. If you are using only opinions and you don't have facts? I'd also argue to not say anything about the subject. Star Wars is an obsession to some of us. This is the story and lore section so I'm willing to get into heated debate about it. Again, back on topic? I'd like to see more of Lana Beniko. She seems to be the most interesting Sith at the moment primarily for her uniqueness. Also if Bioware intended for her to be a light sith I hope they introduce more such characters in the future. Not too many of course (They should be rare) but it'd be interesting to see a few other examples even if they aren't higher up in the chain. I'd also like to see them re-do her hair because it really doesn't look right. It also doesn't match well with the current way hair is done on most characters. It feels like.. plastic. Edited November 8, 2014 by Rhyltran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exosasa Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 If you say so. Just know if you ever change your mind I have quotes from Lucas, the authors themselves, and from various novels. If there's something you're looking for? I have it. I am obsessed with Star Wars lore and have nearly every comic while also owning all of the Star Wars novels. I apologize if I came off as pompous but I jumped in only because you jumped on someone else for stating his opinions and it annoys me when someone claims certain things are opinions when I have sources/facts to back up my statements. I'd argue if you don't care to debate don't tell other people they're wrong. If you are using only opinions and you don't have facts? I'd also argue to not say anything about the subject. Star Wars is an obsession to some of us. This is the story and lore section so I'm willing to get into heated debate about it. Again, back on topic? I'd like to see more of Lana Beniko. She seems to be the most interesting Sith at the moment primarily for her uniqueness. Also if Bioware intended for her to be a light sith I hope they introduce more such characters in the future. Not too many of course (They should be rare) but it'd be interesting to see a few other examples even if they aren't higher up in the chain. I'd also like to see them re-do her hair because it really doesn't look right. It also doesn't match well with the current way hair is done on most characters. It feels like.. plastic. *twitches* I wouldn't want to see more of people like her, I would rather see her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) *twitches* I wouldn't want to see more of people like her, I would rather see her. I mentioned I want to see more of her as well (Albeit in another thread). However, if Light Sith exist in the Empire isn't it a bit weird that there's only one example? There should be more than one example. They don't need to share the exact same personality or even ideals. Just other Sith that possess more "Honorable" traits. I know they're supposed to be the extreme majority but even a low ranking member would be nice. Edited November 8, 2014 by Rhyltran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth__Reaver Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 She looks like she got sat on by a a cross bred rancor and bantha See this could have happened during her childhood which would explain why she went dark side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Advent Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 The old rules still apply to "Legends." According to you. Anything pertaining to the official canon overrules discontinued lore. As for Disney's Canon I think it would be more like.. Light/Dark are just as vital because you can't have good without evil. Star Wars was designed to have very little moral ambiguity and I don't think that's changing. Light = Good Dark = Bad. Some people don't like that simplistic nature but it's always been like that. There is more room than ever for deconstructive ambiguity, which is an objectively good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 According to you. Anything pertaining to the official canon overrules discontinued lore. There is more room than ever for deconstructive ambiguity, which is an objectively good thing. Legend is it's entirely own separate universe now. Disney Canon doesn't affect Legend stories/canon. Star Wars Legends is only canon within it's own universe. SWTOR is no longer part of the official (Disney) Canon which will have it's own EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Advent Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Legend is it's entirely own separate universe now. Disney Canon doesn't affect Legend stories/canon. Star Wars Legends is only canon within it's own universe. SWTOR is no longer part of the official (Disney) Canon which will have it's own EU. I think you're reading too much into the Legends branding, unless there's been a LucasArts statement which I've never read saying exactly that. All of the new EU is of equal canon to the movies and CGI shows, which were the foundation for everything going forward being canon. The Legends retcon thing was just their attempt at being delicate about outright saying the old EU "never happened" so as to avert the neckbeard blowback that is so common among Star Wars geeks. Being that calling it legends implies that they were plausible but ultimately not "real" takes on the legitimate Star Wars continuity, I will continue to take its material as taking priority on TOR over other Legends material. That means that if I want to roleplay a Light Side Sith that uses the dark side like the Inquisitor from Rebels does, without being engulfed by negative emotion, I am justified in doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenBenmc Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 (edited) Legend is it's entirely own separate universe now. Disney Canon doesn't affect Legend stories/canon. Star Wars Legends is only canon within it's own universe. SWTOR is no longer part of the official (Disney) Canon which will have it's own EU. If i am correct, SW:TOR is somewhat part of the EU Legends (the original one). As for some examples of gray/lightsided siths, i may have another example : Lord Praven (we encounter this one in Tattooine with the JK on a class mission). For me, Lana Beniko is a grey (neutral) or a bit lightsided sith like Lord Praven. And this is what i like her and she is interresting on my eyes. She isn't ruthless but have cold manners. But this may be only in the surface ... After all, you can flirt with her (no matter what gender is your toon) and she seems to like it . At the opposite, i think that Theron Shan is a bit ruthless, totally grey, maybe a bit dark sided in his thoughts (a good example is in the third part of Forged Alliances right before entering the conscription room). Edited November 9, 2014 by BenBenmc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Krushya Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I'm not as well versed on Lana Beniko as the rest of you are. My Sith Inquisitor/Sorcerer has FLIRT chances with her and her doesn't get or hasn't had that many chances so I'm looking forward to giving him some opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I think you're reading too much into the Legends branding, unless there's been a LucasArts statement which I've never read saying exactly that. All of the new EU is of equal canon to the movies and CGI shows, which were the foundation for everything going forward being canon. The Legends retcon thing was just their attempt at being delicate about outright saying the old EU "never happened" so as to avert the neckbeard blowback that is so common among Star Wars geeks. Being that calling it legends implies that they were plausible but ultimately not "real" takes on the legitimate Star Wars continuity, I will continue to take its material as taking priority on TOR over other Legends material. That means that if I want to roleplay a Light Side Sith that uses the dark side like the Inquisitor from Rebels does, without being engulfed by negative emotion, I am justified in doing so. The problem with that is that it doesn't fit into what is now "Legends." Even if Legends is non-canon it still has a continuity within itself. Your character might fit in with the new continuity but it doesn't fit into what is established as Legends which is exactly what SWTOR fits snugly into. Likewise, the movies invalidate Mara Jade, Caedus, etc but in legends these characters still firmly exist. It's much like how PJ's LOTR trilogy is not canon within the books but there's characters in them that don't exist within the novels and wouldn't fit in the novels. It has it's own continuity which makes sense with itself even if it doesn't make sense with the actual source material and there's been some games based on PJ's version of LOTR (Such as Shadows of Mordor which don't fit within the books.) So no Legends is no longer Canon but it does contain it's own form of continuity and if material continues under that moniker it's going to continue as if what has been established in legends is what exists. The Disney Canon will have it's own entire EU that is completely separate from Legends. Legends won't become a second Disney EU. It's like a fan fiction having it's own established continuity outside of the source material. This is no difference. Canonically your character makes sense but in this (now large) fan fiction it doesn't fit. That's my understanding so far. I'm not stating you're wrong. I could very well be wrong but this is my understanding of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Advent Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 So no Legends is no longer Canon but it does contain it's own form of continuity and if material continues under that moniker it's going to continue as if what has been established in legends is what exists. But the issue I have with this claim is that everything was stated as if all EU stuff going forward period would be part of the "New Canon" and only everything before would be Legends. SWTOR is the only, single, solitary Legends branded media that still has things constantly being added to it. Furthermore, the new writing and story content is approved by the story group that maintains the New Canon. SWTOR is a special case that doesn't fit in well with LucasArts' statements on canon, which is why there are still people on these forums clinging to the vain hope that SWTOR is still kinda sorta maybe "real" canon. That's why overall I adopt a more flexible position on the lore than I would have before. Prior to the Disney buyout I would be 100% in your camp corroborating your arguments without compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 But the issue I have with this claim is that everything was stated as if all EU stuff going forward period would be part of the "New Canon" and only everything before would be Legends. SWTOR is the only, single, solitary Legends branded media that still has things constantly being added to it. Furthermore, the new writing and story content is approved by the story group that maintains the New Canon. SWTOR is a special case that doesn't fit in well with LucasArts' statements on canon, which is why there are still people on these forums clinging to the vain hope that SWTOR is still kinda sorta maybe "real" canon. That's why overall I adopt a more flexible position on the lore than I would have before. Prior to the Disney buyout I would be 100% in your camp corroborating your arguments without compromise. Except I don't think SWTOR is going to be included in the new canon. It only moves forward because it's an mmo and unless the game is going to be shut down things have to be added to it. I don't think it's going to be part of Disney's canon. If you're right and it does? Then your statements are 100% correct. As it stands now it's "Legends" so I'm basing my comments off that. If there is an announcement that is part of the new "official" canon? I'll revise my line of thought entirely. Don't get me wrong. I'm not hating on disney's canon (So far Rebels is pretty decent for what it is.) and I would LOVE for SWTOR to still be part of the official canon. Not to mention one of the writers stated that some things under the legends moniker might be adopted into the "New EU." while others are just "mere stories." so there is hope in that department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exosasa Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 (edited) Kinda sorta back on topic... What powers do you think Lana is capable of? She uses lightning in the SoR trailer, and she sounds confident in her abilities at the end of FA part 1. Do you think she'll elevate to Head of Military Offense in place of Arkous? Or that Soverous guy pubs kill? Edited November 11, 2014 by Exosasa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malffurion Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 yes i do very much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xakthul Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 What powers do you think Lana is capable of? She uses lightning in the SoR trailer, and she sounds confident in her abilities at the end of FA part 1. Do you think she'll elevate to Head of Military Offense in place of Arkous? Or that Soverous guy pubs kill? The problem is, there's nobody to compare her to, because the only other character in the game who really went around hiding their power like she does was either Jadus, or the Warrior. Jadus did a crappy job of it, and the Warrior eventually has almost no powerbase. I think Marr and Ravage's days on the council are numbered, and the Warrior and Lana may be able to step up and take their places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenBenmc Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 After doing the whole scenaristic arc back from Forged Alliances part one to the end of Yavin 4, i do like more and more Lana beniko. OK she's a sith but a light sided sith. She isn't ruthless but can make some hard choices to maximize the chances of success (even if she don't like it). My female JC really like her (and has tried to help her to change sides ). On the other side, Theron IS ruthless and tends to make the quicker and nastier choices, just because they are easier to do. Fortunately for the galaxy, he isn't talented in the force (that would have made a really nastier guy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 (edited) After doing the whole scenaristic arc back from Forged Alliances part one to the end of Yavin 4, i do like more and more Lana beniko. OK she's a sith but a light sided sith. She isn't ruthless but can make some hard choices to maximize the chances of success (even if she don't like it). My female JC really like her (and has tried to help her to change sides ). On the other side, Theron IS ruthless and tends to make the quicker and nastier choices, just because they are easier to do. Fortunately for the galaxy, he isn't talented in the force (that would have made a really nastier guy). Lana wanted to save the plans for the creation of a new Infinite Army, that would greatly benefit the Sith Empire on the long run; Theron wanted to destroy those same plans to prevent a blight on the Galaxy, seeing said Army is supposed to be an extermination army. Lana threw Theron to the wolves -- something that even Jakarro had issues with -- which could have resulted in Theron's death. ... And Theron is the ruthless one? Seriously? Edited December 6, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelefantos Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Lana wanted to save the plans for the creation of a new Infinite Army, that would greatly benefit the Sith Empire on the long run; Theron wanted to destroy those same plans to prevent a blight on the Galaxy, seeing said Army is supposed to be an extermination army. Lana threw Theron to the wolves -- something that even Jakarro had issues with -- which could have resulted in Theron's death. ... And Theron is the ruthless one? Seriously? I have to agree there. On the scale of ruthless, Lana ranks at Sith Lord, Jakarro at Madclaw and Theron as above average SIS agent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted December 6, 2014 Author Share Posted December 6, 2014 Lana wanted to save the plans for the creation of a new Infinite Army, that would greatly benefit the Sith Empire on the long run; Theron wanted to destroy those same plans to prevent a blight on the Galaxy, seeing said Army is supposed to be an extermination army. Lana threw Theron to the wolves -- something that even Jakarro had issues with -- which could have resulted in Theron's death. ... And Theron is the ruthless one? Seriously? Which is why I like her. She is calm and nice, but she also made it clear that she is a Sith Lord and serves the Empire. She also suggest you to use some monitor on the pub activity in one of the missions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 (edited) Which is why I like her. She is calm and nice, but she also made it clear that she is a Sith Lord and serves the Empire. She also suggest you to use some monitor on the pub activity in one of the missions. Allowing or supporting the creation of another Infinite Army is not serving the Empire, but more so unleashing a blight on the galaxy. You do know the definition of "extermination", right? Edited December 6, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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