Bioware: Warzones are not the Problem in Conquest, Crafting is.

[scottythebod]

BW should just make everything repeatable.

 

• If people want to craft their asses off, by all means
  
• If people want to FP their asses off, by all means
  
• If people want to warzone their asses off, by all means
  
• If people wanted to world boss / commander their asses off, by all means
  
• etc.
  

 

People should be free to earn points any way they enjoy doing, not be limited by what the system dictates.

 

Now, each week giving bonuses to different themes is fine, but the basic principle stays the same.

No doubt that should be how it is, however on top of that the different activities do need to be balanced so they output roughly the same points per hour of play. As it stands now crafting is by far the most efficient way to grind points. They just need to update the point totals for some of the other activities to match crafting.

[Grayseven]

I'm not sure that's right. I have 1 character at the moment, I have no stockpiled mats other than what I happened to gather while questing that didn't get used up while leveling my crafting skills. When I logged in yesterday I didn't have mats to craft even 1 WS and I have less than 100k credits so buying mats isn't really an option.

 

I started about 7:00 and while I was watching my son (he's less than a year old so he requires a lot of attention so I wasn't able to really maximize my time just check the computer every 15-20 or so as I had time) I would send my comps out to gather lvl 2 & 3 mats, each run takes about 10 minutes for all 5 comps to return & costs about 2,000-2,500 credits. About every 2 run gathers enough mats to make one WS. So in essence every 20 minutes I get enough mats to make a WS costing me about 4-5k. I then turn around & sell the WS for 11k.

 

Last night with one crafter I was able to make 19,000 points in 5 hours with 2 hours of those crafting occasionally while babysitting. With 4 or 5 characters being able to cycle through to send off comps on gathering missions I could easily break 50k in 4 hours completely self sustaining.

 

One, I am counting just one character crafting. Yes, multiple characters will get you multiple points but the same can be said of anything you do conquest related. Two, you made my point.

 

In the same 5 hours you did your thing, someone else got more points because they were running WZ's and/or FP's and/or GSF at the same time you were sending out your companions.

 

The 4.25 hours is how long it takes to craft 25 WS on one toon. Each WS takes 51 minutes on a max affection character without efficiency. Using your 1 WS every 20 minutes of mat gathering you can add 8 hours to the 4.25 hour mark meaning you can get 25k Conquest on one toon in just over 12 hours of total time. Now spread that out over the average playing time of people which is probably in the 3-4 hours a day mark so figure it'll take around 5 days to hit 35k through just crafting for "normal" players. Since you also have to factor in the lack of Rich and Bountiful missions you often run in to, you're probably looking at longer.

 

People who spend their entire life in game will have better results, no doubt.

 

In fact, this is what I do. My crafting toons do crafting, my non-crafting toons do the other stuff and in the process often gather materials for my crafting toons from mobs and nodes. When my crafting toons aren't crafting they are gathering mats. All in all, I easily get at least 7 toons to 35k every week. Some weeks are better than others though but it all averages out.

 

But it still boils down to time and money. Crafting takes both. FP's and the like or PvP have minimal costs and more often end up returning many credits as well as Conquest points for the time spent and also allow you to craft at the same time.

[Grayseven]

No doubt that should be how it is, however on top of that the different activities do need to be balanced so they output roughly the same points per hour of play. As it stands now crafting is by far the most efficient way to grind points. They just need to update the point totals for some of the other activities to match crafting.

 

Crafting isn't more efficient. Time wise, it takes longer because you have to account for the gathering of materials or credits to by materials.

 

Right now, you are seeing crafting at an over the top level because we have been sitting on huge stockpiles of materials for years, having nothing else to really use them for. Given time, crafting will fall to a points level equal to or less than running a FP or WZ because gathering takes time and then you have to craft.

 

Of course, if people would stop complaining and start doing they'd find getting points are easy no matter what you do.

[scottythebod]

One, I am counting just one character crafting. Yes, multiple characters will get you multiple points but the same can be said of anything you do conquest related. Two, you made my point.

 

In the same 5 hours you did your thing, someone else got more points because they were running WZ's and/or FP's and/or GSF at the same time you were sending out your companions.

 

The 4.25 hours is how long it takes to craft 25 WS on one toon. Each WS takes 51 minutes on a max affection character without efficiency. Using your 1 WS every 20 minutes of mat gathering you can add 8 hours to the 4.25 hour mark meaning you can get 25k Conquest on one toon in just over 12 hours of total time. Now spread that out over the average playing time of people which is probably in the 3-4 hours a day mark so figure it'll take around 5 days to hit 35k through just crafting for "normal" players. Since you also have to factor in the lack of Rich and Bountiful missions you often run in to, you're probably looking at longer.

 

People who spend their entire life in game will have better results, no doubt.

 

In fact, this is what I do. My crafting toons do crafting, my non-crafting toons do the other stuff and in the process often gather materials for my crafting toons from mobs and nodes. When my crafting toons aren't crafting they are gathering mats. All in all, I easily get at least 7 toons to 35k every week. Some weeks are better than others though but it all averages out.

 

But it still boils down to time and money. Crafting takes both. FP's and the like or PvP have minimal costs and more often end up returning many credits as well as Conquest points for the time spent and also allow you to craft at the same time.

That's the thing if you're referring to just one character I can do more than craft. In fact while I was making 18k last night I also was running missions & managed to lvl up as I was crafting. So while you can do PvP I can do PvP while I craft. And no you can't run PvP with more than one character at a time, I can craft with mutliple characters at once.

 

And yeah I know there's the five hours required to craft the WS, but that I do while I sleep, actual time spent in the game was 5 hours with 2 of that not actively playing. That's with a lot of dead time in which I could be crafting on alts to double or triple my output. Again you can't do that with any other method you can only run one WZ at a time, you can only run one FP at a time.

As far as crafting taking time & money, yes that's somewhat true. It does take about 30 seconds to send my comps out & while I do spend money, at the end of the day I'm selling what I craft for double what I'm paying so I'm actually making money as well.

 

But again I made almost 20k last night, ended the night with more money than when I started & managed to gain a full lvl while doing it, I couldn't make that much doing PvP & I wouldn't have been able to devote time to lvling my character. If you want to believe you can't maintain that pace go ahead but it isn't the truth

[Grayseven]

That's the thing if you're referring to just one character I can do more than craft. In fact while I was making 18k last night I also was running missions & managed to lvl up as I was crafting. So while you can do PvP I can do PvP while I craft. And no you can't run PvP with more than one character at a time, I can craft with mutliple characters at once.

 

And yeah I know there's the five hours required to craft the WS, but that I do while I sleep, actual time spent in the game was 5 hours with 2 of that not actively playing. That's with a lot of dead time in which I could be crafting on alts to double or triple my output. Again you can't do that with any other method you can only run one WZ at a time, you can only run one FP at a time.

As far as crafting taking time & money, yes that's somewhat true. It does take about 30 seconds to send my comps out & while I do spend money, at the end of the day I'm selling what I craft for double what I'm paying so I'm actually making money as well.

 

But again I made almost 20k last night, ended the night with more money than when I started & managed to gain a full lvl while doing it, I couldn't make that much doing PvP & I wouldn't have been able to devote time to lvling my character. If you want to believe you can't maintain that pace go ahead but it isn't the truth

 

You will eventually run out of money. It boils down to credits when you run your system the way you are and lets be honest, you probably aren't selling many WS considering the number of people that appear to be crafting them which means you have to somehow acquire credits in game to keep sending your toons out on missions. One character will have to work its backside off trying to keep multiple toons gathering so they can craft. You can probably easily sustain one toon in the way you manage, but more than that will tap you out quick.

 

Until the huge surplus of mats is gone, we can't get a real idea as to whether or not crafting is over the top, but since crafting is A) easy and B) available to everyone no matter what else they do and for very little real effort, complaining about it as a system is ludicrous at the least.

[ML_DoubleTap]

One, I am counting just one character crafting. Yes, multiple characters will get you multiple points but the same can be said of anything you do conquest related. Two, you made my point.

 

The difference is multiple characters can get crafting points at the same time. PvE and PvP only allow points to be made on the character that is logged in.

[ML_DoubleTap]

I don't think the people posting really know how many points are available with crafting.

 

Without even going that strong I'm at 300k across 4 of my toons already this week. My foot is off the gas because we have a significant lead. I'd be over 500k if need be by myself. That's impossible with PvP or PvE. I'm nowhere near as efficient as others either. That's why it needs to be fixed.

[Khevar]

I don't think the people posting really know how many points are available with crafting.

 

Without even going that strong I'm at 300k across 4 of my toons already this week. My foot is off the gas because we have a significant lead. I'd be over 500k if need be by myself. That's impossible with PvP or PvE. I'm nowhere near as efficient as others either. That's why it needs to be fixed.

If you don't mind, could summarize exactly what it is you want changed? Limited per day? Per week? Lower the point value? Something else?

[Monterone]

I'm a PvPer, and I'm finding it hard to meet my 35k minimums.

 

I really don't want to have to craft a lot in order to be helpful for my guild, that's just not my style of play.

[AdrianDmitruk]

Actually no, I'm not in a large guild. Nor do we have trouble usually placing in the top five. What I want is for there to be other viable ways to win a planet than just crafting, especially when, you know, it's not crafting week. Right now, nothing can touch the numbers. You have to craft in order to win. Which, is just well, really freaking boring, frankly.

 

Have you looked at the numbers quoted in this and the other crafting thread? There is no way, even if everything was set back to how it was, for PVP or PVE to compete with the numbers produced.

 

That's the problem.

 

I mean, seriously. If pvp week conquests are won by a handful of hard core crafters putting up millions of points on their alts - that's a broken system. If it's PVP week, you should win by doing mostly PVP. Same with GSF. Same with Flashpoints. It would be just as broken if PVP guilds won the crafting week by doing warzones.

 

Please reread the second sentence of the second paragraph you quoted from me:

 

The point values given by each activity (PVE, PVP, crafting) can then be rebalanced as necessary.

 

But few of the anti-crafters seem interested in this. Instead they want crafting nerfed to be non-repeatable like PVP and PVE were made non-repeatable, as an over-reactive nerfhammer to various forms of QQ.

 

Level 55s farming level 10 SMs for points? Scale SMs to level of content/your level, and make SMs in general give fewer points than HMs.

 

Instead we have PVE made non-repeatable, then PVErs whined about PVP being repeatable so that too was made non-repeatable, and now we have everyone whining to make crafting non-repeatable--a solution that would hardcap literally any way a small guild might try to compete for that leaderboard spot.

 

The proper solution is to make all activities repeatable again but re-balance the point values to better reflect the difficulty and/or scalability of the content. That way small guilds could compete on being more active than larger, low-standards, mass-recruiting guilds and they wouldn't necessarily have to craft to do it if that wasn't their preferred playstyle.

[BrintoSFJ]

WZ point was not the problem, problem was that people were joining wz and just running around doing nothing just to get the point for participation. If i designed it then i wud have made it so that only those with 10 medals in wz get participation point. or i would totally remove the participation objective, make it win only. crafting is no problem here, i don't craft for conquest at all but those how does, they should get rewarded. at least they are not trolling a group of players in wz.

[BrintoSFJ]

Where they messed up is they let you use alts to repeat the crafting missions as many times as you want, but many objectives can only be done once per legacy, which is complete nonsense! If I have 8 characters that are leveled and geared to do Nightmare Pilgrim, then I should be able to get points for each character I kill him on! Same thing for 250 kills or whatever else. Those alts I have are also taking up roster spots from the guild, which is capped at 500. So BioWare wants us to kick our own alts out of the guild to make room for other accounts that can contribute those non repeatable points? We have already limited members to 5 as it is. I have another guild for my Republic characters and I can't even contribute for them on a lot of objectives. A LOT of players play both factions, which is what BioWare wanted in the 1st place!

 

Or the points gained from killing should be granted to all toon in our legacy.

[Essence_of_Light]

This sure seems like a fun thread.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

Your posts have become more sarcastic and trolly over the last few months. I'm fairly certain you don't even read threads anymore.

 

He is clearly correct though in his statement.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

I'm a PvPer, and I'm finding it hard to meet my 35k minimums.

 

I really don't want to have to craft a lot in order to be helpful for my guild, that's just not my style of play.

 

So am I and I could not care less. If I played one toon, sure, easy, but I don't and have no intention of changing the way I play the game. The rewards are garbage anyway and can be picked up off the GTN if you really want those crafting decoration for next to nothing.

 

I am also a master craftsman, but do not waste my materials on crap like this. Crafting is about making money, not about wasting your mats in some conquest enforced materials sink.

Edited September 12, 2014 by ThorgrimLutgen

[Kulyok]

I am also a master craftsman, but do not waste my materials on crap like this. Crafting is about making money, not about wasting your mats in some conquest enforced materials sink.

 

Yep. I did craft about thirty different universal prefabs, but at least I'll need those for my strongholds. War supplies? Junk.