Planetary Conquest is Dominated by LARGE Allied guilds

[MotorCityMan]

Both the excitement and problem with sand box content is that it can be won, or gotten to first, blocking others. The solution that mmo devs applied was the creation of instances.

 

Group finder and instances went a long ways towards dismantling large guilds, as players no longer needed to be a member of a large guild to find ready made groups. Everyone and their brother started a guild to enjoy their own guild bank and other perks. There was no significant advantage for participating in a large guild. Now the pendulum has swung back the other way.

 

I am sure that the system can be tweaked, but players have to understand that unlike instances, not all content in open world can be, nor should be, served to them on demand. It takes a lot of effort to form a large guild and coordinate players. Now large guilds are being rewarded for those efforts.

 

Players in small guilds have options. They can consider joining those large guilds, or merging with other guilds, or recruiting more members. If they choose to do none of those things, then they have to wait their opportunity for open world content.

 

And no, I am not a member of a large guild. I am outside looking in. But as much as I wish for everyone to get a piece of the pie, I have to say, in this case, to the victor go the spoils.

Edited September 5, 2014 by MotorCityMan

[ivanhedgehog]

Both the excitement and problem with sand box content is that it can be won, or gotten to first, blocking others. The solution that mmo devs applied was the creation of instances.

 

Group finder and instances went a long ways towards dismantling large guilds, as players no longer needed to be a member of a large guild to find ready made groups. Everyone and their brother started a guild to enjoy their own guild bank and other perks. There was no significant advantage for participating in a large guild. Now the pendulum has swung back the other way.

 

I am sure that the system can be tweaked, but players have to understand that unlike instances, not all content in open world can be, nor should be, served to them on demand. It takes a lot of effort to form a large guild and coordinate players. Now large guilds are being rewarded for those efforts.

 

Players in small guilds have options. They can consider joining those large guilds, or merging with other guilds, or recruiting more members. If they choose to do none of those things, then they have to wait their opportunity for open world content.

 

And no, I am not a member of a large guild. I am outside looking in. But as much as I wish for everyone to get a piece of the pie, I have to say, in this case, to the victor go the spoils.

 

the problem with this business model is that swtor does not exist in a vacuum. there are other games that will provide instanced content or content with fast enough respawns or large spawn pools of required targets. as people get tired of the big dog guilds hogging the content they are more likely to look at things like archeage which is in beta this weekend. this is not something that bw should take lightly. while the game is not likely to collapse anytime in the near or not so near future, money going to someone else is not money going to you. a number of small guilds are already not bothering with conquest..just like the wasteland that are seeker droid content.

[MotorCityMan]

the problem with this business model is that swtor does not exist in a vacuum. there are other games that will provide instanced content or content with fast enough respawns or large spawn pools of required targets. as people get tired of the big dog guilds hogging the content they are more likely to look at things like archeage which is in beta this weekend. this is not something that bw should take lightly. while the game is not likely to collapse anytime in the near or not so near future, money going to someone else is not money going to you. a number of small guilds are already not bothering with conquest..just like the wasteland that are seeker droid content.

 

I don't think raising the specter of quitting if you don't get what you want, now, is a convincing argument. I would counter that the opposite is just as likely, that many people leave games because there are no long term significant, exclusive goals and items to be achieved.

 

Not having a fully expanded guild ship doesn't handicap anyone's game play.

Edited September 5, 2014 by MotorCityMan

[DarthTHC]

the problem with this business model is that swtor does not exist in a vacuum. there are other games that will provide instanced content or content with fast enough respawns or large spawn pools of required targets. as people get tired of the big dog guilds hogging the content they are more likely to look at things like archeage which is in beta this weekend. this is not something that bw should take lightly. while the game is not likely to collapse anytime in the near or not so near future, money going to someone else is not money going to you. a number of small guilds are already not bothering with conquest..just like the wasteland that are seeker droid content.

 

What "content" do you think is being "hogged" by guilds that win conquests? Do you know what you get when you win a conquest? The most compelling thing is bragging rights.

[Infernixx]

What "content" do you think is being "hogged" by guilds that win conquests? Do you know what you get when you win a conquest? The most compelling thing is bragging rights.

 

I like the titles. Other than that, getting on the Leader Board is a win in and of itself in my book.

[MidichIorian]

It takes a lot of effort to form a large guild and coordinate players. Now large guilds are being rewarded for those efforts.

That's the biggest misconception of them all. It takes no effort to maintain a big guild and recruiting, in this game atleast, is to 99 % just a matter of spamming enough people about it. I can't believe that people actually believe that the big guilds are organized. My guild has been in top three every week (which is good seeing how we're not that big) so far and we have no organization whatsoever. Hell, the GM even picked the dumbest planet of them all last week, Corellia, knowing that no one in the guild ever plays GSF. It's just down to having a great number of active guild members and getting enough fluff points in addition to the few who actually are going for conquest points. Edited September 5, 2014 by MidichIorian

[Infernixx]

That's the biggest misconception of them all. It takes no effort to maintain a big guild and recruiting, in this game atleast, is to 99 % just a matter of spamming enough people about it. I can't believe that people actually believe that the big guilds are organized. My guild has been in top three every week (which is good seeing how we're not that big) so far and we have no organization whatsoever. Hell, the GM even picked the dumbest planet of them all last week, Corellia, knowing that no one in the guild ever plays GSF. It's just down to having a great number of active guild member and getting enough fluff points in addition to the few who actually are going for conquest points.

 

I have to agree. Most of the Guild Conquest stuff can be done solo, so there's no real 'coordination' to large guilds when it comes to Conquest. Most of the large guilds I see are mostly mass-invite guilds with a focus on quantity over quality.

[well]

To me it doesn't mean much except people are interested in it. That is a good thing. People like titles so more power to them. The reward isn't massive compare to what you put out but it is a achievement that means something to folks. So have fun.

[anesvik]

I have mixed feelings on this. I am in a mid sized guild. We have ~20 people busting butt to get points. We do every shortcut we can think of. I was actually impressed last week. On Saturday we had 2mil and the top guild had 4mil. We figured we could do a final push and finally get on the board at least...I logged in after event was over...top guild had 16mil points...

Surely something is not right. I noticed someone in this thread mentioned tiers.And that is an interesting idea, but I have lost "hope" in getting on the board so I have reverted back to my usually daily routine and leveling alts. This conquest system IS for large guilds...people you play 24/7 and in large groups. I feel bad for the smaller guilds that have yet to break 500k in points.

BUT reaching personal reward is fine for me. Cool mats and SH items and 25k? sure.

But I think people need to realize that in MMOs there is little balance. There will always be someone that is bigger, stronger, or can do it better than you. Just accept what you can do, and have fun with your guild.

[Infernixx]

I have mixed feelings on this. I am in a mid sized guild. We have ~20 people busting butt to get points. We do every shortcut we can think of. I was actually impressed last week. On Saturday we had 2mil and the top guild had 4mil. We figured we could do a final push and finally get on the board at least...I logged in after event was over...top guild had 16mil points...

Surely something is not right. I noticed someone in this thread mentioned tiers.And that is an interesting idea, but I have lost "hope" in getting on the board so I have reverted back to my usually daily routine and leveling alts. This conquest system IS for large guilds...people you play 24/7 and in large groups. I feel bad for the smaller guilds that have yet to break 500k in points.

BUT reaching personal reward is fine for me. Cool mats and SH items and 25k? sure.

But I think people need to realize that in MMOs there is little balance. There will always be someone that is bigger, stronger, or can do it better than you. Just accept what you can do, and have fun with your guild.

 

while all very true in most points, I'd just like to point out that being careful with selecting what planet you're attempting will make a world of difference.

 

Sometimes, picking a planet with few bonuses will give you an edge as most large guilds will avoid those worlds.

[Tavend]

I tend to agree as well.

 

For the record the two guilds on Ebon Hawk that racked up huge points at the beginning were Veritas and AOL for a Voss conquest. It was more like 1 million the first hour not 3.

 

The rumor being passed around is that they queued up all of their crafting the night before and then logged in after their guild leader started the conquest to get the reward. This 'head start' didn't require them to be a huge guild, it just required that they were aware that they could take advantage of the system like this. Many of us were not aware of that 'loop hole' in the rules but I can guarantee you every guild will be doing that with their crafting efforts from this point on.

 

Reading comprehension. I said 24 hours, not 1 hour.

[Tavend]

BS. I'm on the Ebon Hawk and in the 1st week my guild squeaked out a win by getting over 10 mil total. While we scored 3 mil the LAST day of that competition, it opened a lot slower. Ironically the ONLY guild to get 3 mil in the "1st 24 hrs" like you claim was the guild we beat trying to take that same planet again and getting some fairly stiff competition from another guild. Guess they don't want to take any chances this time around so they burned a load of crafting materials early.

 

Reading comprehension to you as well. Who the **** said anything about week 1? Veritas had 3 mil on day 1 of THIS weeks invasion.

[DarthTHC]

Reading comprehension. I said 24 hours, not 1 hour.

 

Reading comprehension to you as well. Who the **** said anything about week 1? Veritas had 3 mil on day 1 of THIS weeks invasion.

 

Care to "reading for comprehension" my response to your post?

[Zharik]

Reading comprehension to you as well. Who the **** said anything about week 1? Veritas had 3 mil on day 1 of THIS weeks invasion.

 

Care to read the 3rd sentence of my post again?

 

My response to your claim that "the big guilds on The Ebon Hawk usually have 3 mil before the first 24 hours is up..." was to clarify that has happened exactly ONCE so far in 3 weeks of conquest... Not sure what elementary teacher you need to go apologize to for being such a bad student, but there it is...

 

Usually = customarily; at most times; in the ordinary course of events

Once = ... what actually happened (out of 11 times - counting each planet as its own event)

 

 

Quote: Originally Posted by Tavend

Perhaps on your server, but the big guilds on Ebon Hawk usually have over 3 mil points before the first 24 hours has elapsed.

My response:

BS. I'm on the Ebon Hawk and in the 1st week my guild squeaked out a win by getting over 10 mil total. While we scored 3 mil the LAST day of that competition, it opened a lot slower. Ironically the ONLY guild to get 3 mil in the "1st 24 hrs" like you claim was the guild we beat trying to take that same planet again and getting some fairly stiff competition from another guild. Guess they don't want to take any chances this time around so they burned a load of crafting materials early.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Zharik

[MotorCityMan]

That's the biggest misconception of them all. It takes no effort to maintain a big guild and recruiting, ....

 

We disagree on this point. But I will agree some put more effort into it than others.

[Uruare]

It's quote cherry picking time!

 

 

Most of the people in my guild are adults with families and full time jobs and or going school. The majority just hit the conquest point goal for the week on at lest one toon and call it good at that. It's not really that hard we are always getting runs for gf flash points and ops together. No one is required to do anything but many do because we enjoy playing together. There are certainly a few members that go above and beyond that but most it that just by doing what they normally would be doing any ways. We also have members that think this whole conquest thing is stupid and refuse to do anything on that front.

 

 

Why would anyone want to be in a guild like that? Do you think all big guilds are run that way? How many large guilds have you been in? I'm in 3 different rather sizable guilds 2 of which have been undefeated in planetary conquests. Honestly you are lucky of most of the time 1/2 the members are sober. Both guilds regularly organize drunk runs that get more hilarious as the night goes on. We play this game because it's fun, and we have lots of fun playing together.

 

 

Can't argue with that we are pretty crazy, but in a good way.

 

 

Yes......... is it supposed to work a different way?

 

 

Depends what you consider fair I guess.

 

 

 

What percentage of the population does Nightmare content? What percentage of the population does ranked pvp? There is lots of things in this game that only a small dedicated percentage even attempts.

 

 

 

There's a lot of venom in this post for someone that doesn't care.

 

The venom is actually less acrid than perhaps it comes across. I'm excellent at coming off much more harshly than I thought I have.

 

To clarify, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. I personally feel that it's not as valuable to the vast majorities as I'd prefer, but Bioware doesn't exactly keep me on speed dial, to ask about my preferences on anything.

 

I'm not wrong though, about what it means. Is you're guild life you say? I don't assume you'd have any special reason to lie about it.

 

Are there extreme no lifers that will do exactly as I've described? Man, there are no lifers that let their kids starve over this stuff.

 

Are there lots of other types too? Sure. But you're all competing with the most extreme nutjobs too. And playing like most obsessive nutjob in the game will serve very well with conquest.

 

Not all large guilds are super rank and file. If I had to make a bet, is be that very few can pull it off consistently.

 

But they're out there, and you're competing with them too. If you can't meet or beat their level of efficiency and organization, they win whatever that feel like winning, and second place?

 

First loser.

 

Conquest isn't like raiding NiM at all like that. Nobody is literally in competition with eachother to raid NiM.

 

If only the first guild to clear NiM of any op each week got the drops? Then we'd have a comparable scenerio.

 

Is this bad?

 

Pretty useless to most that can't or won't compete like that.

 

I think Bioware could've done a lot to make ita valuable platform of competing to more people, but as said, I think lots of things, and they reaaally don't have much cause to care.

[ivanhedgehog]

I don't think raising the specter of quitting if you don't get what you want, now, is a convincing argument. I would counter that the opposite is just as likely, that many people leave games because there are no long term significant, exclusive goals and items to be achieved.

 

Not having a fully expanded guild ship doesn't handicap anyone's game play.

 

I am looking at it from biowares point of view..lost revenue is lost. this is a good megaguild grind addon, but they need to follow up quickly(as in next week) with at least a hint of 3.0, so the people that look at 2.9 and ask "wheres the beef" have something to start talking about. a good percentage of the game are not in megaguilds..funny thing about gamers,they want to win, not just show up in the top 10. busting your hump to stay at number 8 or 9 will get old fast. telling them top wait for sloppy seconds from the mega guilds wont go over real well for extended time.

[MotorCityMan]

4 strongholds and decorations from every imaginable source isn't beef enough? So you can't open up your guild ship as fast as a larger guild. You are missing the point. Mega Flagships are meant to be hard, exclusive, long term achievements.

 

As I mentioned in my previous post, instanced content and group finder has all but destroyed guilds because they eliminated the original reason for guilds, which was to group together to do content. Now, we finally have a little bit of content that requires a group, the larger the better, and some people are objecting.

 

Demanding what others have, right now, or else, is childish. Not having a fully expanded guild ship does not effect or hinder anyone's game play in the slightest. The mega guilds will finish with their ships sooner or later, and then the next tier of guilds will have their chance at it, and so on.

 

If that doesn't do it for you, and you have to have it right now, and be the first, then the answer is simple. Join the mega guild. If you want to be the GM of a fully expanded flagship, start recruiting. If neither of those options is appealing, then one should be happy to plan and wait for the content to be available on terms they are comfortable with. It's not like you don't have opening and decorating 4 strongholds, progressing through NiMs, flashpoints, pvp, crafting and making alts to keep you occupied in the meantime. eh

Edited September 6, 2014 by MotorCityMan

[aeterno]

The main problem with these conquests from my POV stems from it's PvE nature, which means instead of faction competition, we get guilds of the same faction competing, pulling commanders/world bosses off each other with chain taunts etc. That's even worse then getting a sister opposing faction guild to cover your toosh.

 

Atleast if the opposing faction muscles you off it's reasonable, but the whole spiel of having to show up 30min before a named commanders shield goes down to pull him first and then pray 24 guys of the same friggin faction with a gazzilion taunts dont show up to reset him on you and take over is pure BS.

 

It's a great mechanic to start fights. Too bad not in terms of world pvp but general chat fights between same faction guilds lol.

Edited September 6, 2014 by aeterno

[ZGOZZ]

I have to agree with a lot of the statements here.

 

There should be caps on crafting, bottom line, legacy wide. Should be no way that 4 people in a guild can get 4 million on their own by crafting only.

Events need to be balanced that all guilds, big and small have fun in the events. To see 2 guilds first day be in the millions, less then 4 hrs. is just amazing, and crazy.

Just shows if you have deep pocket guilds, you’re going to take planets. What really is kind of not cool is feeding mats to other guilds to keep others down, Just wrong.

If this is not fixed, this event is going to push more people out of this game.

 

Spread the events out, every 3 weeks or so.

Make legacy Caps on crafting, like you did with FP.

I really think this event can be really cool. But at this point. It is a waist of time for small guilds to even try.

[aeterno]

Problem would be sufficiently mitigated if every week was galactic war week with ALL the planets up for grabs.

 

I don't get their decision to put up 3-4 per week, that just compounds the issue monumentally by not leaving room for smaller guilds to fight over the fringe planets.

[branmakmuffin]

What percentage of the population does Nightmare content? What percentage of the population does ranked pvp? There is lots of things in this game that only a small dedicated percentage even attempts.

Exacatmundo. So no matter what the content, if it's "hard," someone will be complaining that it's too hard for him or her to do and so should be made easier.

[Grayseven]

Problem would be sufficiently mitigated if every week was galactic war week with ALL the planets up for grabs.

 

I don't get their decision to put up 3-4 per week, that just compounds the issue monumentally by not leaving room for smaller guilds to fight over the fringe planets.

 

It wouldn't matter, small guilds are locked out completely because they are small. Even if every planet were up for grabs every week the smaller guilds would be on the outside looking in, which is really how it should be.

 

The system is so flawed that we will continue to see the same guilds winning every week and the top ten will look about the same every week. This will last until people get tired of the system and start ignoring it. EA/BW can't really do anything about the systems inherent bias towards mega-guilds without redoing the whole thing.

[Jeweledleah]

I have to agree with a lot of the statements here.

 

There should be caps on crafting, bottom line, legacy wide. Should be no way that 4 people in a guild can get 4 million on their own by crafting only.

Events need to be balanced that all guilds, big and small have fun in the events. To see 2 guilds first day be in the millions, less then 4 hrs. is just amazing, and crazy.

Just shows if you have deep pocket guilds, you’re going to take planets. What really is kind of not cool is feeding mats to other guilds to keep others down, Just wrong.

If this is not fixed, this event is going to push more people out of this game.

 

Spread the events out, every 3 weeks or so.

Make legacy Caps on crafting, like you did with FP.

I really think this event can be really cool. But at this point. It is a waist of time for small guilds to even try.

 

but.. the whole fact that 4 people crafting being able to make 4 mil on their own is the proof that small guilds CAN make it if only they put their minds to it. because if you start adding caps - you are limiting your own small guild as well. especially with legacy caps - those big guilds will actualy have better chances of winning over smaller ones by sheer virtue of having more legacies they can use to get those conquest points.

 

didn't that occur to you? I suppose not.

 

and yes small guilds and individuals can have deep pockets. I know of quite a few and their deep pockets have NOTHING to do with the guild they are in, but rather their personal playstyle

 

last but not least. mega guilds winning contests is bull. medium sized organized guilds are the one that do best here, mega guilds that only invite for members don't fare all that well for one simple reason. their members are not really motivated to help their guild, they are not at all motivated to go above and beyond to make up those extra points needed to win.

 

which in the end is the crux of it. the more you are willing to put in, the higher your chances of winning are. and by more, I don't mean number of members, i mean individual effort of dedicated members. you see the same guilds winning week after week because they are the ones wanting that win and working towards it.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Jeweledleah

[Grayseven]

but.. the whole fact that 4 people crafting being able to make 4 mil on their own is the proof that small guilds CAN make it if only they put their minds to it. because if you start adding caps - you are limiting your own small guild as well. especially with legacy caps - those big guilds will actualy have better chances of winning over smaller ones by sheer virtue of having more legacies they can use to get those conquest points.

 

didn't that occur to you? I suppose not.

 

and yes small guilds and individuals can have deep pockets. I know of quite a few and their deep pockets have NOTHING to do with the guild they are in, but rather their personal playstyle

 

last but not least. mega guilds winning contests is bull. medium sized organized guilds are the one that do best here, mega guilds that only invite for members don't fare all that well for one simple reason. their members are not really motivated to help their guild, they are not at all motivated to go above and beyond to make up those extra points needed to win.

 

which in the end is the crux of it. the more you are willing to put in, the higher your chances of winning are. and by more, I don't mean number of members, i mean individual effort of dedicated members. you see the same guilds winning week after week because they are the ones wanting that win and working towards it.

 

Bull. Mega guilds have nothing to do with the number of people in them because just having a ton of people isn't enough.

 

A Mega guild has a ton of active members working towards the common goal. Just a few examples are guilds like WOOK and ORD who have massive memberships that are active players. Nothing against these guilds, by the way, as both of my examples are filled with people any guild would be lucky to have, but the Conquest system is biased towards them.

 

A guild with 40 active members simply can not compete with a guild that has two to three times that many active members. 40 active and dedicated members can't beat 80 active and dedicated members. Each active and dedicated member can still only do so much and at that point, number of members win.

 

The Mega guilds dominating every week have massive numbers of active accounts, have members each putting in effort towards the conquest goal and are simply too massive to beat unless your guild is equally as massive.

 

Now, in a crafting week like this you might find medium or large guilds with players who have many alts actually being competitive if they have the materials available to keep their crafters rolling but again it is easier for many individuals to do this than one player with many alts tapping the same materials supply.

 

4 players making 4 million is fine, but can't compete with a mega guild with over 15 million points.