Conquest and Screwing PVEr's

[Ihlrath]

All I'm saying is that PVP can earn unlimited points a day. That should be the case for PVE as well.

[Khevar]

All I'm saying is that PVP can earn unlimited points a day. That should be the case for PVE as well.

Perhaps.

 

But I'm saying that it would only be unbalanced if both guilds were invading the same planet.

[Ihlrath]

Not always though. The bonuses sometimes overlap.

[Master_Hitsugaya]

I thought there were other ways for individuals to get points to contribute....I might be mistaken.

crafting and you get like 1500 points for each heroic.

[Hanak]

All I'm saying is that PVP can earn unlimited points a day. That should be the case for PVE as well.

 

You raise a good point. But PvEers can through crafting. I have my points accumulated on one crafter for the entire conquest period within the first 24 hrs. Granted, I'm one of 3 crafters in the guild who can do this since we aren't super big PvEers.

 

Also, it is my understanding that different conquests favor different aspects of the game. Thus there will be a conquest where the crafters have the upper hand, one where flashpoints are the bread winners, etc. Also consider the time commitment of the average player and the rewards between the two. Say the average player games 1.5 hrs a night, that's 6 warzones x 500 (right now) for 3k points + 1k for the daily is 4k total. Considering heroics, you can run 1 character through them in 45 min (average of 7) so in the same timeframe PvEers earn 14 x 500 = 7000.

 

For the average character, it's better for people to participate in PvE for points rather than PvP.

[Ihlrath]

We'll see how it turns out. I'm not so concerned about it affecting me and mine so much as some of the others out there. We didn't take advantage of the exploits because they said, 'Hey this is an exploit' so we left it be. We had 3 groups run Illum/False Emperor. Took about a half hour, seriously... and this was on hard mode. That was it.

 

However you can see where those that are using the exploit have gotten. I am in full agreement that needs to be fixed.

[Khevar]

Not always though. The bonuses sometimes overlap.

Fair enough.

 

But I skimmed Dulfy's list, and the ones where they did overlap, there were multiple PvE invasion bonus planets that didn't have PvP bonuses attached.

 

This week is a good example. Hoth gives a PvP and a PvE bonus. But the PvE bonus is only for flashpoints and operations. To really get a good PvE bonus you need to invade Balmorra, which does nothing for PvP.

 

Emergency Operations is another good example. Tatooine is a PvP / flashpoints / operations world. Hoth is a PvP / heroics world. But the real PvE money is Belsavis, which gets heroic bonuses for both Belsavis and Section X, and no PvP bonuses.

 

I didn't go through each conquest with a fine-toothed comb though. Are there any that don't pan out this way?

[Ihlrath]

Most have some sort of a cross over. However there's a strategic aspect of it as well. For example this week, we picked Corellia. Not because we're a huge gsf guild, but because we're a smaller guild. Knowing that most of the big pvp and pve guilds would be going for other worlds, we picked Corellia. It's working out too as we're on the leaderboard. I don't ever expect us to win a planet. But getting the guilds rewards for at least finishing in the top ten is nice.

[GadgetDon]

Why would a PvP guild invade a planet without a PvP invasion bonus? Why would a PvE guild invade a planet WITH a PvP invasion bonus? Why would these two guilds be competing?

 

Note that I'm not trying to say that all Conquests events are balanced. They aren't. I'm just trying to say that people are making mountains out of molehills.

 

To be honest, I'm only slightly talking about the guild vs. guild thing. There are only a handful of guilds that have a realistic chance at winding up on the top 10 lists, if you aren't in a mega guild the guild scoring doesn't really matter. I may be unusual that I have a foot in both camps, I have my Empire characters in a guild that is mega and is showing up in the lists, I have my Republic characters in a smaller guild that has no real chance.

 

My biggest concern is the time it takes to get to 35K points for the personal reward. Those rewards matter to the people. They matter to the players who aren't in the mega guilds and their only reward will be the personal reward. They matter to the players who are who might get a guild reward but also want the personal reward. And frankly the guild cares because if members don't see a real chance at the personal reward without spending all their playing time during the week towards grinding conquest points, they're less likely to contribute.

 

And it's not like every member of a PVE guild never does PVP, or every member of a PVP guild only does PVP.

[LordArtemis]

Are you on a PvP server? I would expect you to be,

 

Im not sure why you would expect me to be....I am on a PVE server and I only participate in PVE content.

 

I play on a PvE server because i don't like PvP with most MMO's (EVE Online, FireFall, and Planetside being the few MMO exceptions for me, WoT style games are not MMO's (a lobby does not make a game an mmo))...Anyway off topic....

 

Fair enough.

 

PvP players are the vast minority (especially on PvE servers)...that is because most PvP in games like this (level/stat/gear based mmo's) is complete crap for "most" people who would do PvP in other genre's (FPS, RTS, etc).

 

I don't dispute that.

 

You are the minority, forcing players to play PvP in a game that is 95% PvE is silly and arguably bad game design.

 

Well, you couldn't be more mistaken about me being in the minority. Casual PVE players are the RESOUNDING majority of players whether you like it or not. I am part of that group. I am a VERY well known pro casual player on the boards. Your comments are frankly absurd and uninformed.

 

I would not have designed it the way it was designed if I was working on it. But I don't feel the current design forces folks to PVP. I have decided to not participate in this part of the feature, and I do not feel that I am missing out on anything. I expect most casual players couldn't care less about it to be frank.

 

It is not bad game design to provide content for PVP players, just like providing content for raiders. As long as the MAJORITY of content is pointed at casual players, which is EXACTLY what Strongholds represents IMO.

 

You might consider pondering your statements a bit before expressing them. Otherwise you can make yourself look rather silly in the end.

Edited August 29, 2014 by LordArtemis

[LordArtemis]

False, the gameplay type that in emphasized changes each week. Last week was the Ground PvP week (or crafting week if you went for Voss), this week is the GSF, there will be PvE dominant weeks down the road.

 

False? I was speaking to what I believed was the design intent. What is false about that statement? I can be incorrect or mistaken, but it's a rather foolish viewpoint to contend I am being false.

Edited August 29, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Infernixx]

PVPers can grind endlessly, but PVEers can't. Crafting doesn't count since PVPers can do that, too

[LordArtemis]

Well, to be fair nothing was or is stopping PVP players from grinding flashpoints either.

 

Yes, everyone can do everything certainly. And I don't think it's unfair to say that PVP folks can out-accumulate PVE folks in the end in the conquest system.

 

I was simply contending that perhaps that is intended, fair or not. Perhaps this entire system is pointed to be pro PVP considering it is a conquest system, and in most games with this type of world warfare system PVE players contribute but PVP players are the ones that always dominate.

 

That doesn't mean I'm right about that, but I think I remember a dev pointing out that this was designed for PVP players with the ability for PVE players to contribute.

[Khevar]

PVPers can grind endlessly, but PVEers can't. Crafting doesn't count since PVPers can do that, too

This is true.

 

But consider the points I've tried to make:

 

1. A PvP guild trying to win is highly likely to pick a planet with a PvP bonus.

2. A PvE guild trying to win is highly likely to pick a planet with a PvE bonus that favors heriocs.

3. A quick glance at Dulfy's lists shows that these two types of guilds are likely to be on different planets.

 

A PvP'er invading Balmorra would have to do 54 warzones to make the same amount of points a PvE'er could on Balmorra doing the non-repeatable daily objectives. That doesn't exactly favor PvP, in my opinion.

 

Not to mention, that if you're the type of person who could farm infinitely repeatable PvE content to win Conquests, it is highly likely you'd have more than one level 55 alt, meaning you could do Balmorra a second time, forcing the PvPer to do 108 warzones to keep up with you.

 

[Ihlrath]

For guild goals, yes. For personal, it doesn't help to do it on two different characters. And that's more what I'm concerned about is the people trying to get their personal goal.

[LordArtemis]

Ok, well, as I said earlier I am not against the idea of someone finding a way through game mechanics to achieve things they desire. Whether or not it is fair is for others to judge.

 

I don't really think it is necessary to patch this, but I also think that folks will find a way to get the points they desire using other methods.

[Khevar]

For guild goals, yes. For personal, it doesn't help to do it on two different characters. And that's more what I'm concerned about is the people trying to get their personal goal.

You'd rather grind an easy level 10 SM flashpoint over and over and over and over again for your personal Conquest points? That's the only thing that is changing with tomorrow's patch.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Khevar

[LordArtemis]

You'd rather grind an easy level 10 SM flashpoint over and over and over and over again for your personal Conquest points? That's the only thing that is changing with tomorrow's patch.

 

I don't know about other folks, but if I was interested in conquest points (I am not) I would craft for them. I despise having to run BT/Esseles just to grind light or dark points.

 

I didn't pick up any of the new crafting schems that were not directly tied to U Mks.

Edited August 29, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Ihlrath]

A level 10 FP, hell no. And furthermore that would be an unfair advantage. I'd like to see Level 55 HMs added for 500 a pop.

[Kalfear]

Let me say up front and clearly

 

I felt the rerunning of lvl 10 flashpoints by level 55 players to be a exploit (in nature)

 

So a fix had to be made in that regard as no self respecting PVEer would even call that PVE content

 

But limiting to 1 a day? 1 a week? common thats about as STUPID as one gets

 

The fix wasnt limiting the running of flashpoints

The fix was eliminating people from running grey flashpoints (make only green and higher content TO ALL GROUP MEMBERS the condition)

The fix was eliminating the exploit of someone getting to end and inviting new people

 

As of 6 am est Aug 29, Conquests become a PVP only activity and honestly

 

The PVP in this game is so bad I know Ill not be taking part in it

And I suspect all those PVEers who have suddenly started requeueing this past week will be leaving that queue as well

 

Leaving this game once again with slow queue pops because of its bad PVP content

 

Speaking only for myself, Im not interested in knee Jerk reaction bandaid repairs.

 

FIX THE SYSTEMS ALREADY

 

But all this should have been vetted out before hand on free trial server (oh sorry, are we still calling it test server?)

[Ihlrath]

Let me say up front and clearly

 

I felt the rerunning of lvl 10 flashpoints by level 55 players to be a exploit (in nature)

 

 

Exactly. Any self respecting player wouldn't use it and could clearly see it was unfair.

[Kunda]

I honestly don't have much of an issue with your post. I agree that they need to find a balance with acquiring conquest points in all playstyles. That said....

 

I understand Bioware has been trying ram PVP down our throats since launch but some of us are simply NOT interested in their broken PVP system and this basically says to the PVEr's that 'Hey you don't matter to us.'

 

This is utter rubbish. They completely removed Ilum and 8v8 Ranked Warzones from the game. They've done essentially the exact opposite of what you stated until 2.9 where Commanders only exist in PvP areas. When they start removing PvE content from the game let me know.

[Ihlrath]

Kunda. You are absolutely correct. They have tried to add PVP to events, mostly the first rakghoul event where it was a real pain and the event boss was in outlaw's den and then adding it to the HK quest line. Lately though they seemed to have swayed away from that.

 

So, you're correct. The statement I made was wrong.

[Alec_Fortescue]

PvEers = Dailies, flashpoints (u get lots of points from killing certain enemies in easy and quick flashpoints!) , operations, Heroics...

 

And PvPers get only warzone / arena match. PvErs get lots to do. Nobody plays starfighter on my server.

 

One PvP game lasts about 10-15 minutes. It's going to take you 20-25 minutes to speed run level 50 flashpoints to kill this bonus boss and get 2000 points instead of 500. Arenas? yeh, they are short but queues are ultra long.

 

So don't tell me pvers get a shaft because, compared to pvp players, you have a massive variety of activities and quick points to make so unless the PvPer is a no-life he can dream about getting as many points as a PvEr.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Alec_Fortescue

[Ihlrath]

Well the running the low level FPs for the bonus bosses is what they're fixing. And I agree that this needs to be fixed. I'm not arguing that. I'm agreeing with that. What I'm saying is I would like to see unlimited Level 55 HM FPs at 500 a pop.