Darth_Wicked Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Simple check of a player's achievement log eliminates need for belief lol one look and you can tell the raiders from the fleet bums. As to people caring, who cares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calsetes Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Personally, I'll see what other people hit. If they're all hitting Need, and I don't have it, I assume it's up for grabs and I'd hit Need also. If it's something I don't have, and I see people hitting Greed, I'd ask if they're greeding because they got one, or if they're greeding because it's not a gear drop they "need," and then ask (if appropriate) if I should / could hit Need myself, or just hit Greed and hope for the best if I don't have it. I don't mind not getting something because someone else needs it / wants it too. It happens. If I already got something, and other people are hitting Need, I don't "need" to sell it if it means I'm screwing someone out of a decoration they had their heart set on throwing in their Upper West Side Penthouse Suite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karkais Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Please list all the Mount drops you can sell on the GTN. What had GTM to do with anything? The issue I talked about was needing cosmetic items in operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transairion Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) What had GTM to do with anything? The issue I talked about was needing cosmetic items in operations. Because that is the issue? People only Need cosmetic items in Operations pre-Strongholds because, shocker, they don't have one. If you have a pet/mount already, the item is greyed out and you can't use it twice nor trade it, it simply becomes dead weight so nobody in their right mind Needs on it. Remember early 55 HM FP's? Every time an EEE would drop, people would Greed on it. Why? Because most people couldn't use it to craft anyway. Now? Every 55 HM FP you better Need on that EEE or you won't even get a roll. What changed? People realized you could slap it up on the GTN and make some cash. The same thing is now going to happen to decorations: once people already have one they shouldn't Need, but no, they'll see they can sell it on the GTN so "yoink! Sucks to be you, person who wants it for their Stronghold". I don't mind not getting something because someone else needs it / wants it too. It happens. If I already got something, and other people are hitting Need, I don't "need" to sell it if it means I'm screwing someone out of a decoration they had their heart set on throwing in their Upper West Side Penthouse Suite. Exactly this. I know this is a foreign concept to some people but there should be such a thing as common courtesy. The only difference between Needing on decorations to sell and Needing on every trash green item nobody can use is that you'll be called out on the latter. The former, quite simply, there isn't any reasonable way to confirm if they actually have it already or not. Edited August 22, 2014 by Transairion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyinSpaghetti Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 Because that is the issue? People only Need cosmetic items in Operations pre-Strongholds because, shocker, they don't have one. If you have a pet/mount already, the item is greyed out and you can't use it twice nor trade it, it simply becomes dead weight so nobody in their right mind Needs on it. Remember early 55 HM FP's? Every time an EEE would drop, people would Greed on it. Why? Because most people couldn't use it to craft anyway. Now? Every 55 HM FP you better Need on that EEE or you won't even get a roll. What changed? People realized you could slap it up on the GTN and make some cash. The same thing is now going to happen to decorations: once people already have one they shouldn't Need, but no, they'll see they can sell it on the GTN so "yoink! Sucks to be you, person who wants it for their Stronghold".. Difference between mats and fluff is that mats are a resource, where as fluff is a souvenir from specific ops. If they are souvenirs why should they be available from anywhere else bar the ops themselves? It's equivalent to say a post office in Slough trying to sell postcards from the Caribbean, it defies the point if you haven't done the op to own the items IMO. It only creates frustration for those who have/are running ops, having to compete with greedy gits with credit signs in their eyes for the hope of taking a little bit of the op back with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karkais Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) stuff Damn your sunglasses are pretty heavily colored. I tried to say: I have never seen anybody ever click anything but "need" for cosmetic items and that is FINE by me. GTM is still unrelated. A great example of a "glass is half empty" person. Edited August 22, 2014 by Karkais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transairion Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Damn your sunglasses are pretty heavily colored. I tried to say: I have never seen anybody ever click anything but "need" for cosmetic items and that is FINE by me. GTM is still unrelated. A great example of a "glass is half empty" person. Well, I'm sorry but your version of the truth is highly skewed. Unless you never do anything but KDY, you'll have seen at least one pet/mount/etc drop. And 8/8, 16/16 people won't all roll Need on it, because some people will have it already and thus rolling Need will only give them less inventory space. Literally the only people who roll Need on cosmetic pre-Strongholds are people who don't have them, pure and simple. There's no benefit to rolling Need on stuff you already own before Strongholds. GTN is unrelated, because, shocker, you can't list mounts/pet drops on the GTN. If you play nothing but KDY, which only drops CURRENCY and no pets/mounts whatsoever then I could see the confusion. Now, even if people are 50/50 on X/Y/Z Decoration they can keep rolling Need regardless because they're not Bound and they can shove them on the GTN to sell. Even if other people who are rolling Need are 0/50 for the decoration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transairion Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Forgive the double post but the hilarity was just too good to pass up. Operations drop/can drop decorations in stacks. As in, NiM EV final boss (the only mob to drop ANY decorations, somehow) dropped 4 Rakata Mind Traps. I won the roll and got all four. I split the stack and rolled off the other 3, but there was literally nothing to stop me from keeping all four and selling 3 on the GTN. That is an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Forgive the double post but the hilarity was just too good to pass up. Operations drop/can drop decorations in stacks. As in, NiM EV final boss (the only mob to drop ANY decorations, somehow) dropped 4 Rakata Mind Traps. I won the roll and got all four. I split the stack and rolled off the other 3, but there was literally nothing to stop me from keeping all four and selling 3 on the GTN. That is an issue. Not anymore of an issue than Isos dropping from TC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Not anymore of an issue than Isos dropping from TC. This. We can have as many as 50 of any decoration and maybe I want four Mind Traps for my balcony? Also, protip here: Everyone who can, needs to solo False Emperor before they nerf the drop rate of the Statue of the Emperor. I ran it twice and got 4 of them. Thinking of doing it a few more times so I can fill up my staircase with Statues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilc Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Lol. I see no reason why they wouldn't. They're raging because of how hard it is to get them lmao. I for one do NOT want to run an op 25-30 times just in hopes of getting the item.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) GTN is unrelated, because, shocker, you can't list mounts/pet drops on the GTN. . umm... yes you can. flashpoint pet drops.. I've never once seen those manovour pets drop, but I have purple and golden anyways... because I bought them from GTN. guildy got a kel drake that drops in hardmode fortress... before we have seen it drop... becasue its boe. this is not new. and people in my experience always rolled need on cosmetic/fun items unless otherwise pre arranged. Edited August 23, 2014 by Jeweledleah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 This. We can have as many as 50 of any decoration and maybe I want four Mind Traps for my balcony? Also, protip here: Everyone who can, needs to solo False Emperor before they nerf the drop rate of the Statue of the Emperor. I ran it twice and got 4 of them. Thinking of doing it a few more times so I can fill up my staircase with Statues. I'm so stealing this idea. sorrynotsorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arunav Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 They should be BoP like other fluff items in operations, something you have to earn rather than buy with a wad of credits. Considering this update was supposed to be a credit sink why is there a cash incentive for obtaining these items? Yes it's a credit sink, but it's also one of the annual "monitization expansions." In that sense, draining folks of credits, but also having highly sought after drops on sale on the GTN encourages buying coins and converting them to credits. Also, I'm sure part of it is also so folks who don't do operations can still get said decorations. But that's secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Yes it's a credit sink, but it's also one of the annual "monitization expansions." In that sense, draining folks of credits, but also having highly sought after drops on sale on the GTN encourages buying coins and converting them to credits. Also, I'm sure part of it is also so folks who don't do operations can still get said decorations. But that's secondary. yes, that's it, exactly. They're doing it so people will buy CCs and try to convert them to credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transairion Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Not anymore of an issue than Isos dropping from TC. You mean a single person gaining 400k or more from merely winning a (single mind you) crafting material roll isn't an issue for you? Yes actually that is an issue, things shouldn't drop in stacks. Most drops don't drop in stacks, they drop as individuals.... where's the consistency? Most people would probably prefer rolling 6 times for 6 mats than rolling once for 6 mats... if you get lucky and win all 6 good for you. You win a stack and **** leaving everyone else empty handed... no can't see an issue there >_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) You mean a single person gaining 400k or more from merely winning a (single mind you) crafting material roll isn't an issue for you? Yes actually that is an issue, things shouldn't drop in stacks. Most drops don't drop in stacks, they drop as individuals.... where's the consistency? Most people would probably prefer rolling 6 times for 6 mats than rolling once for 6 mats... if you get lucky and win all 6 good for you. You win a stack and **** leaving everyone else empty handed... no can't see an issue there >_< RNG is RNG and Life sucks. Oh well, just move on. Edited August 23, 2014 by Reno_Tarshil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Forgive the double post but the hilarity was just too good to pass up. Operations drop/can drop decorations in stacks. As in, NiM EV final boss (the only mob to drop ANY decorations, somehow) dropped 4 Rakata Mind Traps. That is an issue. No, it's not, because it's just a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Well, I'm sorry but your version of the truth is highly skewed. Unless you never do anything but KDY, you'll have seen at least one pet/mount/etc drop. And 8/8, 16/16 people won't all roll Need on it, because some people will have it already and thus rolling Need will only give them less inventory space. Literally the only people who roll Need on cosmetic pre-Strongholds are people who don't have them, pure and simple. There's no benefit to rolling Need on stuff you already own before Strongholds. I think you're making mountains out of molehills. Just ran a flashpoint. A decoration dropped. Everyone needed on it. Nobody complained. Nobody was worried, no nobody make a big deal out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transairion Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) I think you're making mountains out of molehills. Just ran a flashpoint. A decoration dropped. Everyone needed on it. Nobody complained. Nobody was worried, no nobody make a big deal out of it. Yeah, I'm really sure within the first week most of your group's going to have that decoration already right? No?! Shocker. How about in a month, or a couple of months when plenty of people WILL have that decoration already and others will not... they're still going to Need on it regardless because $$$. Do I really need to explain it? If you have a group do HM False Emperor and the Rendii Firebolt drops off Malgus... 3/4 of the group owns that mount, who will Need and who will Greed (let's assume the one who doesn't own it wants it)? 3 people will Greed/Pass, 1 will Need. The three who Greed/Pass have no desire for the Mount as it's bound and if they get it will likely destroy/vendor it if possible if they win it. Fast foward a year from now to HM False Emperor again and the Statue of the Emperor decoration drops off Malgus. 3/4 of the group owns that decoration already and one doesn't but wants it. What happens? Need Need Need Need. 4 people all rolling Need, and only one of which doesn't own it. What are the others most likely to do with it if they win the roll? Straight onto the GTN! The exact same thing happened to EEE's, at first the majority of players would pass on them as they couldn't be used by them personally then all of a sudden 4 Need rolls every HM FP no matter what because people saw $$$. The issue with OPERATIONS is there's likely 8/16 other players in the group and items (can) drop in stacks, so you can have 15/16 players with the decoration already all rolling Need against the poor guy without, winning a big stack of "free money" then selling it off on the GTN. No, it's not, because it's just a game. You can claim that about literally any issue ingame, because it's a game. Edited August 24, 2014 by Transairion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) The exact same thing happened to EEE's, at first the majority of players would pass on them as they couldn't be used by them personally then all of a sudden 4 Need rolls every HM FP no matter what because people saw $$$. You either have a selective memory, or didn't run a lot of pugs. I've never seen EEEs passed on. Not when they were first introduced 18 months ago, not when they became more important for crafters later on, and not today. The same thing used to happen with Molecs pre 2.0, and BCAs before that (going on almost three years ago now). It didn't matter if a player was a crafter or not, everyone was given equal opportunity to roll on rare mats in any group I was a part of. This idea that you would expect someone to pass on a rare crafting mat because he "couldn't use it" is rather strange. I can't say I know anyone that shared your weird ideas about loot rules. And judging by the responses you've been getting in this thread, I'm probably not alone here. Edited August 24, 2014 by Khevar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uruare Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) In this thread, another entitled raider that thinks everyone should have to raid in order to have anything good. Amazement did not ensue. Edited August 24, 2014 by Uruare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transairion Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) You either have a selective memory, or didn't run a lot of pugs. I've never seen EEEs passed on. Not when they were first introduced 18 months ago, not when they became more important for crafters later on, and not today. The same thing used to happen with Molecs pre 2.0, and BCAs before that (going on almost three years ago now). It didn't matter if a player was a crafter or not, everyone was given equal opportunity to roll on rare mats in any group I was a part of. This idea that you would expect someone to pass on a rare crafting mat because he "couldn't use it" is rather strange. I can't say I know anyone that shared your weird ideas about loot rules. And judging by the responses you've been getting in this thread, I'm probably not alone here. My bad, I used the wrong term I meant Greed roll. Pass roll would be not even getting a roll at all so yes nobody would ever do that. But I did a LOT of PuGs and the majority of times unless someone specifically wanted to craft with it, they Greeded. As in, most rolls-offs were Greed roll offs and Needing was relatively rare. And you know why? Because Needing on something YOU WANT TO SELL was poor form. But apparently the rising price of certain materials meant a quick 50-100k and someone caught on, then everyone else did. Now Needing in the norm because $$$, doesn't matter if you actually want to craft something or just want money if you Greed you won't even get a roll anymore. Edited August 24, 2014 by Transairion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 They should be BoP like other fluff items in operations, something you have to earn rather than buy with a wad of credits. Considering this update was supposed to be a credit sink why is there a cash incentive for obtaining these items? Simple : It draws people into running OPs which had never done so before - plus the new bolstering of OPs for them. So, in short, now OPs don't belong to closed circle class of players anymore. That's why the whining, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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