tunewalker Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 At range and 2 feet away is pretty drastically different tune... Im not going to bother, its just pointless debate that has nothing to do with anything. I am just giving you what is the standard force wielder, if you are specialized Makashi you have a severe weakness against blaster wielding opponents whether it is 1 or many..... that is fact that is what the form is. Makashi was a dedicated blade style all about percision and foot work.... Shien and Soresu are the best against blasters, but Shien was very Blaster dependent, Shien could hold their own in saber, but it was prefered to use Djem So if they wanted to fight saber to saber since with out it Shien was kind of a weak soresu, the power blows and the idea of the fluid reposte wasnt there with out Djem So Soresu was a pure defense with very little offense Ataru was acrobatic, but tired the user out quickly, defense was speed and offense was speed. Niman was a balanced approach to all, the Jack of all trades master of none, but that was ok cus it had a lot of tricks up its sleave if one trick didnt work it had a whole bunch of others to pull out of the hat. Juyo was offense often at the expense of some defense... that's just what they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted August 1, 2014 Author Share Posted August 1, 2014 While I rearrange some points, I just wanted to drop this here... "While this was ultimately the reason for the style's decline and eventual obsolescence, it could be overcome through skill and practice." Talking about Makashi and blaster deflection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I know. Just a mere 2-3 shots is terrible for any mastered saber form. Weak to it or not... and Shii Cho? No. I was going to move some stuff around to get some Shien/Djem So. Since that also fits with the character since, you know, he is 7'1... Side Note: What exactly is Projected Telepathy? I can't find anything referring to it other than one small link that just leads to general telepathy... Projected telepathy is basically Telepathy over a much greater distance.... It could technically be dropped if you guys wanted. What LK is talking about is Force Illusion or Force Projection.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) While I rearrange some points, I just wanted to drop this here... "While this was ultimately the reason for the style's decline and eventual obsolescence, it could be overcome through skill and practice." Talking about Makashi and blaster deflection. Skill and practice NONE of our characters should have.... you are a master up to this degree The higher levels of the form proved considerably more effective. Form II bladework encouraged precision and efficiency over power, using jabs, parries and light cuts rather than slashes, blocks and chops. The blade manipulation required for this form was very calculated, requiring intense focus and expert timing. It was described as elegant, powerful and precise, relying on feints to confuse and trap opponents. These refinements allowed a user of the form to attack and defend with minimal energy expenditure. Makashi also placed a great deal of emphasis on footwork in both attack and defense. The footwork of Form II practitioners commonly followed a single line, front and back, shifting the feet to keep in perfect balance as the practitioner advanced and retreated. Makashi was a style based on balance, on back-and-forth charges, thrusts, and sudden retreats. Makashi practitioners were also uncommonly adept at defending themselves from Force-based attacks. These elements combined to create a form that was extraordinarily effective for lightsaber combat against a single opponent.[1][11][4] No one is such a master level that they overcome the forms weaknesses with out taking another form, not in this game or at least they shouldnt be.... Edited August 1, 2014 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted August 1, 2014 Author Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) Projected telepathy is basically Telepathy over a much greater distance.... It could technically be dropped if you guys wanted. What LK is talking about is Force Illusion or Force Projection.... Kinda how I was interpreting it. If that is the case... Do we still want it to be a requirement for Dominate Mind? (Since it only effects range if this is correct) I am just saying, 2 fully mastered requirements is still more than any other ability. Side Note: Nor was I saying it completely nullified the weakness, only lessened it Tune. Though, I am bouncing back and forth between Soreseu or some Shien / Djem So... The Shien / Djem So fits with the characters size and reach, but doesn't mesh well with its Makashi... Decisions decisions... Edited August 1, 2014 by Silenceo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Kinda how I was interpreting it. If that is the case... Do we still want it to be a requirement for Dominate Mind? (Since it only effects range if this is correct) I am just saying, 2 fully mastered requirements is still more than any other ability. Yes, and Dominate mind is an incredibly powerful ability.... and its not the only one remember Force destruction..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted August 1, 2014 Author Share Posted August 1, 2014 Yes, and Dominate mind is an incredibly powerful ability.... and its not the only one remember Force destruction..... Is that a yes to making it only Mastered Telepathy and Mastered Fear or is that a yes to keep Projected Telepathy? Vague answers... And yes I remember it. It is not like either of these techniques are unable to be countered, and they both basically leave the user gasping for breath after one use... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Kinda how I was interpreting it. If that is the case... Do we still want it to be a requirement for Dominate Mind? (Since it only effects range if this is correct) I am just saying, 2 fully mastered requirements is still more than any other ability. Side Note: Nor was I saying it completely nullified the weakness, only lessened it Tune. Though, I am bouncing back and forth between Soreseu or some Shien / Djem So... The Shien / Djem So fits with the characters size and reach, but doesn't mesh well with its Makashi... Decisions decisions... I do think Shien and Djem So might need to be "seperate abilities" if you know what I mean personally they are kind of different just my personal thoughts... though I dont think Niman dual blade and Niman need seperating or Maybe once you achieve a level of either Djem so or Shien you unlock a level of the other, since pretty much all Shien users had some ability with Djem so and vice versa they just prefered 1 over the other, what do you guys think how sould we handle Djem so and Shien... have the person pick 1 and unlock 1 or 2 ranks lower of the other????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarons Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Is that a yes to making it only Mastered Telepathy and Mastered Fear or is that a yes to keep Projected Telepathy? Vague answers... And yes I remember it. It is not like either of these techniques are unable to be countered, and they both basically leave the user gasping for breath after one use... There both one shot one kill abilities that you only use when you on your dying breath anyway if we are on taris i don't think people will be using it unless they have a way to survive the other player and the rakghouls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Is that a yes to making it only Mastered Telepathy and Mastered Fear or is that a yes to keep Projected Telepathy? Vague answers... And yes I remember it. It is not like either of these techniques are unable to be countered, and they both basically leave the user gasping for breath after one use... Oh I didnt know it had 3, if it has 3 I guess we could drop the Mastered Projected telepathy...... They are both difficult to counter and as far as I know dish out bigger then a lot of other stuff, its the weakness of taking the abilities, they have a downside..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarons Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I do think Shien and Djem So might need to be "seperate abilities" if you know what I mean personally they are kind of different just my personal thoughts... though I dont think Niman dual blade and Niman need seperating or Maybe once you achieve a level of either Djem so or Shien you unlock a level of the other, since pretty much all Shien users had some ability with Djem so and vice versa they just prefered 1 over the other, what do you guys think how sould we handle Djem so and Shien... have the person pick 1 and unlock 1 or 2 ranks lower of the other????? I say we keep them together that's making people spend more points for an ability that's go hand and hand like you said so they should stay together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted August 1, 2014 Author Share Posted August 1, 2014 There both one shot one kill abilities that you only use when you on your dying breath anyway if we are on taris i don't think people will be using it unless they have a way to survive the other player and the rakghouls Not always. For example, Kyle Katarn survived a close range Force Destruction from Jerec. Alternatively, Dominate Mind can be resisted if the target has good mental defenses. Think of it as an extremely strong mind trick with a little more control by the user. Definitely not one shots... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I updated my character sheet after noticing a mistake of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted August 1, 2014 Author Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) I updated my character sheet after noticing a mistake of mine. The precog? Side Note: What is everyone else's opinions regarding Projected Telepathy on Dominate Mind? Edited August 1, 2014 by Silenceo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) I agree on Form V, you should require levels to be built separately, with one level free in the less proficient variant. Edited August 1, 2014 by LadyKulvax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarons Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) Not always. For example, Kyle Katarn survived a close range Force Destruction from Jerec. Alternatively, Dominate Mind can be resisted if the target has good mental defenses. Think of it as an extremely strong mind trick with a little more control by the user. Definitely not one shots... i remember that but no one would use Dominate mind on a person who they know won't be able to control like i wouldn't use it on you or Lk it wouldn't work ill use it on someone i know who is mentally weak now i wished we still had torture by chagrin Edited August 1, 2014 by Jarons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I say we keep them together that's making people spend more points for an ability that's go hand and hand like you said so they should stay together Should 1 be higher then the other though? people did have their preferences with them.... Also going to quote the funniest line from the Kaggath " nicely debated, now I'm going to go watch Guardians of the Galaxy, bye suckers." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 The precog? Yes and no, I put points in an ability when I didn't have to I did however get minor precognition as you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted August 1, 2014 Author Share Posted August 1, 2014 You know... Art of Small and Force Stealth are so similar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarons Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Should 1 be higher then the other though? people did have their preferences with them.... Also going to quote the funniest line from the Kaggath " nicely debated, now I'm going to go watch Guardians of the Galaxy, bye suckers." IMO no they should stay together but that's just me trying to save me some points i say a ability like this should stay together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I agree on Form V, you should require levels to be built separately, with one level free in the less proficient variant. Before I leave I think the lower 1 should go up 1 rank every time you increase the other 2 ranks... IE if you have Level 3 Djem so you get rank 2 Shien free... If Lvl 5 you get Rank 3 free and vice versa.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarons Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Before I leave I think the lower 1 should go up 1 rank every time you increase the other 2 ranks... IE if you have Level 3 Djem so you get rank 2 Shien free... If Lvl 5 you get Rank 3 free and vice versa.... I think i can accept that its a good compromise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 You know... Art of Small and Force Stealth are so similar... Kind of. Art of small also allows you to miniscule your other force powers.... Including TK allowing you to move very small wind particles and the like, it allows you to make Senses Micro scopic allowing you sense things that are incredibly small (including diminished force sensitivity) and several others of the like. It can even be used as a form of force healing and detoxification Allowing you to Telekinetically effect microscopic organisms and cells, potentially using MENTAL abilities on these things as well. It allows ALL abilities to be applied on a micro scopic scale... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted August 1, 2014 Author Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) Alright, re arranged some stuff, tell me what you guys think comparatively of the changes. Form I - Shii Cho** Lvl 2 (0 points) Form VI- Niman* Lvl 1 (0 points) -Form II- Makashi* Lvl 5 (28 points) -Form III- Soresu* Lvl 3 (18 points) -Form IV- Ataru* Lvl 1 (0 points) -Form V- Shien / Djem So* Lvl 1 (0 points) 46 points Force speed* Lvl 3 (5 points) Force cloak* Lvl 3 (5 points) Force stealth* (Also known as Force concealment) Lvl 3 (5 points) Force sight* Lvl 3 (3 points) (Racial bonus) Farseeing* Lvl 1 (0 points) Force empathy* Lvl 1 (0 points) Telepathy* Lvl 3 (5 points) Telekinesis* Lvl 1 (0 points) Force Jump/Leap* Lvl 1 (0 points) Force Pull/Push* Lvl 2 (2 points) 25 Force Wave* (once achieved appropriate Force Push) Lvl 1 (0 points) Precognition Lvl 3 (6) Force Whisper* (with appropriate Telepathy lvl) Lvl 1 (0 points) Force confusion* (with appropriate Affect mind or Force slow levels) Prereq with out affect mind or dom mind requires Master Telepathy and proper level with Projected Telepathy lvl not free with just Telepathy prerequisites. Prerequisites Not required if have affect mind or Dominate mind at appropriate level Lvl 1 (0 points) Projected Telepathy* (with appropriate Telepathy level) Lvl 1 (0 points) Tutaminis* Lvl 1 (0 points) -Shadow Vision* (with appropriate lvl of Force sight) Lvl 1 (0 points) -Art Of small Lvl 3 (12 points) 18 Force rage* Lvl 1 (0 points) Force scream* Lvl 1 (0 points) Force Slow* Lvl 3 (5 points) Force wound* Lvl 1 (0 points) - Drain Knowledge (Requires Telepathy) Lvl 3 (12 points) - Force Fear* (Requires projected Telepathy) Lvl 3 (10 points) -- Force Horror advanced version of Force Fear (Requires Fear) Lvl 2 (9 points) ---- Mind Control* (pre-reqs: Mastered Force Fear, and Telepathy) Lvl 3 (25 points) 61 Total: 150 And LK, I know the saber skills are similar to yours, just flipped...but that was not intentional. If Shien / Djem So could have worked better with Makashi, I would have taken that. The main differences is that I lost Dun Moch *since I am unsure how I would portrayal its use anyways...* as well as force confusion was altered to minor instead of major since it wouldn't be used in most situations. It still would be able to effect things driven by instinct though. Not as greatly, but still effect them. I also made Project Telepathy a Minor since the things that it does, extend range, are not required since nothing would be used at that distant of a range here. Thoughts? Opinions? Edited August 1, 2014 by Silenceo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Well I am not going to pretend I am a fan of that change but I'm also not going to pretend that hybrid form is all mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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