Kaggath Battlegrounds Heats - Republic Reborn vs Wroshyr Alliance

[tunewalker]

Actually, no. My supplier is giving 7.5%, as both my suppliers together are fielding the 300 fighters.

 

Just curious, have you taken out 12 fighters per Thunderclap?

 

And again, we need to make sure that naval suppliers have a purpose.

 

You're right, Sorosuub has Naval and Ground, and as Sienar was a naval service with horrendous ground departments, it should have more fleet assets due to focussing on one area.

 

You would think it does, but it doesnt. Soro Suub was more then capable of protecting itself from outsiders just with the fleet alone. The thunderclaps YES.... and no.... I took your fleets compliment and then added 12 Thunderclap ON TOP of your compliment then calculated how many ships Seinar would have to provided had those ships been inside and that along with all the shuttle replacements became your Seinar Numbers...

 

I also do not recal the Hutt's ever building fighters.

[Selenial]

You would think it does, but it doesnt. Soro Suub was more then capable of protecting itself from outsiders just with the fleet alone. The thunderclaps YES.... and no.... I took your fleets compliment and then added 12 Thunderclap ON TOP of your compliment then calculated how many ships Seinar would have to provided had those ships been inside and that along with all the shuttle replacements became your Seinar Numbers...

 

I also do not recal the Hutt's ever building fighters.

 

They didn't, but they can field the entirety of the underworld, and the Hutts did actually have a fleet... A large one.

 

The Hutts can buy whatever they want, and they'd spare no expense seeing as the WA is invading THEIR world...

[tunewalker]

Citation needed.

 

Besides that makes no sense, the Thunderclap was designed to be independent.

 

"#67 Fighter complement choices will be restricted to whatever fighters you’re chosen ships have deployed at any point during their usage – though do not attempt to find loopholes. "

 

Not

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hammerhead-class_cruiser

 

One

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperious-class_Star_Destroyer

 

Of

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Interdictor-class_cruiser

 

These

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Endurance-class_fleet_carrier

 

 

Has a Bt-7 listed, what do they have listed.... welll lets look

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_fighter

 

7 meters with wings OUT

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Defender_starfighter (one ofthe wings on the endurance was short range)

5 metters

 

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/RZ-1_A-wing_interceptor (the other wing was hyperdrive equiped) + (the other fighters that were standard in its set up)

10 meters

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Aurek-class_tactical_strikefighter

9 meters

 

vs

 

BT-7

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/BT-7_Thunderclap

 

 

96 meters long, 61 meters wide...

 

Now with every squad you need some space between the ships to get in them and such.... and the biggest ships are 1/10th the length of this one, add in the Width and 1 squad worth is generous......

[Selenial]

Im finding a Loop Hole.

 

Nowhere in that rule does it state your ship has to carry them, so yes, again, as the Thunderclap was designed to be an independent vessel, with bunks, food, sanitation areas and the like, whilst still having some kick *** weapons, it'd fly solo into battle.

[tunewalker]

They didn't, but they can field the entirety of the underworld, and the Hutts did actually have a fleet... A large one.

 

The Hutts can buy whatever they want, and they'd spare no expense seeing as the WA is invading THEIR world...

 

#28 The role of an organisation is to provide anything else such as intelligence, criminal influence, black market assets, technology etc. they are also able to provide armour and armaments but not in large quantities, nor can they be a manufacturer.

[Aurbere]

Are the Hammerhead's weapons listed on Wookieepedia accurate? I remember some contention about them.

[tunewalker]

Im finding a Loop Hole.

 

Nowhere in that rule does it state your ship has to carry them, so yes, again, as the Thunderclap was designed to be an independent vessel, with bunks, food, sanitation areas and the like, whilst still having some kick *** weapons, it'd fly solo into battle.

 

"#67 Fighter complement choices will be restricted to whatever fighters you’re chosen ships have deployed at any point during their usage – though do not attempt to find loopholes. "

 

 

I am sorry please try again....

 

 

Edit: Note I AM having them fly slolo into battle, the space they WERE occupying by the the rules and regulations has been replaced with Seinar ships... all of your ships are thus there including those provided by Seinar and the hutts.... that totaled out to 306 around 15% of your fleets size.

Edited July 29, 2014 by tunewalker

[Selenial]

Are the Hammerhead's weapons listed on Wookieepedia accurate? I remember some contention about them.

 

Not even remotely, I'll repost the weapons for you that I posted a while back.

[Selenial]

Hammerhead:

 

4 Double Light Turbolaser batteries

4 Medium Turbolaser Batteries

2 point defense Batteries

1 Tractor beam battery.

 

But yeh, Beni's probably going to Universal Tech Rule them like he did with the Interdictors.

[tunewalker]

#24 When in the Kaggath, no members of Leadership have immediate access to supplies such as money, raw materials, armies, navies etc. they are completely isolated from them.

 

 

This is also why, no fighters at all should be being added.....

[Aurbere]

Hammerhead:

 

4 Double Light Turbolaser batteries

4 Medium Turbolaser Batteries

2 point defense Batteries

1 Tractor beam battery.

 

But yeh, Beni's probably going to Universal Tech Rule them like he did with the Interdictors.

 

Well that is different.

[tunewalker]

Well that is different.

 

Ya a ship of its size, from what I have been able to dig on would have around 3 per battery... except for point defense batteries which seemed to ALWAYS be in groups of 5 regardless of ship size....

[Selenial]

#24 When in the Kaggath, no members of Leadership have immediate access to supplies such as money, raw materials, armies, navies etc. they are completely isolated from them.

 

 

This is also why, no fighters at all should be being added.....

 

Thats just blatantly not true.

 

 

This rule obviously applies to Head of State, Second in Command, and the two allies.

[tunewalker]

Fighter Defenses

 

 

RR

 

Interdictor class: each of these was very well protected with 30 Point defense guns, It could defend itself well, though the range on the guns and lack of missiles would make it difficult to defend other ships

 

 

Endurance Class: This has 20 Laser cannons as well as Tractor beams to help slow some enemy fighters, this ship is again well defended for itself, and the unlike the previous the Laser cannon range does allow for some allied coverage. Unfortunately I feel with its size, these guns might not be able to provide MUCH coverage to other ships, and still adequetly protect itself.

 

 

Hammerhead Class: this also had 10 point defense cannons (2 batteries) again the range on these weapons means it could not defend other ships, but it plenty to defend itself

 

 

Alliance- Was a very large ship that as far as I can tell had 0 Fghter defense guns... while its armor and shields were thick it would be vulnerable to a strong bomber hit. and would need the protection of the fighter and the little diffence the Endurance can provide

 

 

 

 

WA

 

 

Majestic class-heavy cruiser: These things were riddled with fighter killers and defenses... 20 Laser cannons same as the larger Endurance class on a smaller body, meant it could both defend itself well and provide ok Protection for others. In addition 8 Concussion missile tubes for Fighters and 20+ anti missile octetes and its fighter defenses are Huge, allowing it to defend itself and the other ships in its fleet very well

 

 

MC40a: This had little in terms of fighter defense, using its Heavy Tractor beams and its concussion missiles to keep fighters off of it. It could mostly defend itslef, but had no where near enough to even think about defending others.

 

 

Hapan Dragon: Lacked all kinds of defense against fighters relied on other fighters and other ships to defend it.

 

Nebula-class: Again lacked Fighter defenses and required others to come to its aid.

 

 

 

Overall: at first glance It would seem the WA has a weakness to fighters, but this is not the case. The MC40's are enough to defend themselves and the Majestics out number all the rest of my ships COMBINED, to top this off most of the other ships are SMALLER then the Majestic allowing its defense guns to very easily cover its allies. The fighter difference is no more then 10% and with such a small advantage Fighters will have little to no affect on this battle.

The RR's Flagship is well defended by the Endurance class and the fighter advantage, while the WA fleet is covered well by the Majestic's Fighter defenses and the fact that its own fighters arent that horribly out numbered or out gunned.

 

This battle will be decided by Capship fire power and Tactitians...

[tunewalker]

Capship fire power

 

 

Each ship here on both sides is a powerhouse for Capship fighting

 

 

20 Interdictor: 5 batteries, and as I have said before as a Heavy Cruiser each battery would number in 5.... EXCEPT on its strongest points which would number the larger 10 as we see on other Heavy cruisers

Total Cap ship offense: 35 Medium Turbo laser able to bring 10 to bear on a target at a time

 

vs

 

22 Majestic-class: 30 Heavy turbo laser cannons again of which a maximum of 10 could be pointed at a target at a time. And 20 ion Cannons of which 5 could be fired at a target

 

As heavy guns are stronger then medium guns, and the Majestic has Ion guns to top it off and outnumbers the Interdictor The Majestic would likely Take the Capital ship offense by a bit of a margin.

 

I would say 1.5 Interdictors per 1 Majestic

 

leaving 10 Majestic's left

 

 

15 Hammerhead: a Ship of its size's Turbo batteries are mostly in groups of 3...

 

12 Medum Turbo lasers and 12 Light double Turbo Lasers of which it could bring 3 of each to bear at a time

 

vs

 

10 MC40a:

 

14 turbo's and 18 ions

 

Overall these 2 ships would likely have similar levels of firepower the ability for the Hammer head to bring so many Turbo lasers to bear some of them being stronger then the MC40's I feel is offshoot by the MC40's Ion guns. Also while Offenses seem similar, Defenses are not the MC40 is much larger and tougher and even larger and tougher for its gun size. Taking on enemies as equals that had more firepower but less defense. For this reason I again believe this is a 1.5: 1 fight canceling the 2 ships out.

 

 

6 Endurance Class: 12 turbo lasers and 8 Ion Cannons, but this ship was NOT about running away, its lacked Turbo's in the back and 5 of its ion cannons were positioned in the front.

 

because of this it could bring 4 Turbo's and 5 Ion's to bear on a single target while using the others as some defense on its sides.... To top this off the Endurance's armor was exceptionally thick and made for a VERY hard target, though its shields were slightly sacrificed its shields were still strong

 

Vs

 

10 Remaining Majestics

 

This is a rough match for the Majestics even though they outnumber the enemy Endurance. The endurance is by no means slow, so out maneuvering it would exceptionally Hard allowing the Endurance to keep its good guns on the Majestic. With its added defenses I believe it would cost 1 Majestic for every Endurance.

 

leaveing 4 Majestic

 

 

 

 

Alliance (Imperious class) This thing is a monster, with More slightly more firepower then an Imp II and MASSIVELY stronger defenses this thing would be a beast to take down while also shredding many enemies it faces

 

vs

 

Obi-wan + 7 hapan Dragons

 

The Obi-wan (Nebula class) was able to pack an Imp II's level of destruction into a small space, to top this off its defenses were strong enough to tank a Ship like the Imperious for a small amount of time. But 1v1, heck even 2v1 Nebula's against the Alliance would not stand a chance. The Defenses on the ship are just way to strong.

 

The Hapan Dragon worked well when firing at a Single target, and had highly advanced Ion cannon's as well as a couple with Long range Turbo Lasers. They used a Ion-cannon Proton 1:2 Punch and such a strategy proved to be highly effective against ships of many ages. 3 Dragons could take out a Imp in short order with such a combo, with the Nebula out front taking hits, the 7 Dragons getting into position for this combo or using long range turbo, I believe would mark the Destruction of the Alliance (imperious-class) though it would not be pretty on the WA's Obi-wan or The Hapan Battle Dragons...

 

 

Edit: overall the WA has the Cap ship offense and defense advantage,but its by no means large, only leaving a few Majestic (4) and the Obi-wan with maybe a Dragon or 2 left. This would mean the battle is close, but when combined with the Fighter offense, and fighter defensive capbilities I believe the WA comes out ahead for Ship vs ship.

Edited July 30, 2014 by tunewalker

[Aurbere]

I feel that the space battle would be fairly even ship-to-ship, so I think (as others have stated) that the quality of the tacticians will decide the victor.

 

I'm still not sure which side gets the edge, but I'm leaning towards the RR due to the number and quality of their tacticians.

[tunewalker]

I feel that the space battle would be fairly even ship-to-ship, so I think (as others have stated) that the quality of the tacticians will decide the victor.

 

I'm still not sure which side gets the edge, but I'm leaning towards the RR due to the number and quality of their tacticians.

 

Number????

 

its 4 vs 4

 

Edit: oops wrong 4 vs 3 Jace isnt a space guy,all of my people have experience in space command in one form or another....

Edited July 29, 2014 by tunewalker

[Aurbere]

Number????

 

its 4 vs 4

 

Edit: oops wrong 4 vs 3 Jace isnt a space guy,all of my people have experience in space command in one form or another....

 

Regardless, the quality of the RR tacticians is superior to the WA.

[tunewalker]

Regardless, the quality of the RR tacticians is superior to the WA.

 

Again argueable....

 

Corran Horn and Saba had just as good figher tactics as Wedge.

 

Dodonna was a master tactitian having revolutionized space war fare. After checking up on him. It wasnt just hit and Ru tactics he was great with, but he was the leading expert on Space Siege tactics. IE holding a location or Bombarding enemy blockades, which is what he is facing here. He invented a computer to do what a couple of his enemies on the RR do, AND he was the inventor of the Trench run offense, and was highly adaptable to many situations given to him.

Edited July 30, 2014 by tunewalker

[Aurbere]

Again argueable....

 

Corran Horn and Saba had just as good figher tactics as Wedge.

 

Dodonna was a master tactitian having revolutionized space war fare. After checking up on him. It wasnt just hit and Ru tactics he was great with, but he was the leading expert on Space Siege tactics. IE holding a location or Bombarding enemy blockades, which is what he is facing here. He invented a computer to do what a couple of his enemies on the RR do, AND he was the inventor of the Trench run offense, and was highly adaptable to many situations given to him.

 

Well, I hate to argue for Revan, so I'll let Sel do the heavy lifting here.

 

Anyway, Dodonna is your best tactician, but I'm not sure he is as good as Wedge. You yourself said that Wedge was superior to Admiral Ackbar, an Admiral who certainly revolutionized warfare and has appeared to be an all-around superior tactician to Dodonna.

 

@Sel/Rayla, doesn't Meetra have some version of Battle Meditation?

 

Edit: Don't feel the need to lecture me about Dodonna. I wrote a thread about him a while back. I know full well what he can do.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Aurbere

[tunewalker]

speaking of the Trench run Offense, while I HIGHLY doubt it would be any effect here, or that many would be able to get close enough to do So... if a Kwing with a couple X4 Gunships acting as the 2 back pilots were to attempt a trench run on the Alliance it could prove Devistating. If the fighters didnt clear it before it reached and the Endurance didnt destroy it before the 3 got onto the Alliance there would be little to stop the K-wing from delivering its full powerhouse of a payload as the X4's were very tough and could shoot fighters off their own tails, making stopping such an offense difficult and such an offense being very strong should it get started with the K-wing at the lead.

 

Though with the number of fighters on both sides as well as fighter defenses on both sides, this is not really to terribly likely I find.

Edited July 30, 2014 by tunewalker

[tunewalker]

Well, I hate to argue for Revan, so I'll let Sel do the heavy lifting here.

 

Anyway, Dodonna is your best tactician, but I'm not sure he is as good as Wedge. You yourself said that Wedge was superior to Admiral Ackbar, an Admiral who certainly revolutionized warfare and has appeared to be an all-around superior tactician to Dodonna.

 

@Sel/Rayla, doesn't Meetra have some version of Battle Meditation?

 

Edit: Don't feel the need to lecture me about Dodonna. I wrote a thread about him a while back. I know full well what he can do.

 

I didnt presume to lecture, but I would MAYBE give Wedge an edge, both Him and Dodonna are in their comfort zone here honestly. Wedge was masterful at defense and Dodonna equally so at Siege. The 2 I believe are a perfect match for one another in this situation. (Wedge might take the edge in other situation Dodonna in still others)

 

I honestly believe Wedge is the RR's best tactitian as well. But after ship calculations I Feel the WA does have the slight ship advantage thus I think Battle Meditation would ultimately just neutral that Ship advantage, and with Wedge and Dodonna, I feel they cancel each other out as well....

 

The one thing that May tip it in WA's favor again is Saba's Force meld or Battle Meld, allowing her to "Battle Meditation" a select few of her people essentially, dropping some of the effectiveness of Meetra's battle Meditation.

Edited July 30, 2014 by tunewalker

[tunewalker]

Another point I wanted to cover, since the RR fleet is already in system and the WA fleet is arriving, thanks to people on the ground the WA fleet has the advantage of knowing much of the RR's make up and with the Secret wookie lanes its possible they will drop out of hyperspace in a location the enemy is not expecting.

 

Furthermore in addition to Hapan intel and their ability to both cover up transimission locations and intercept transmissions if the enemy DOES intercept a transmission from the WA they have no way of understanding it because

 

 

Xaczik Language.

 

 

The Wookie Language Xaczik was a rare language used by the Wookies and much like the Navahoe code Talkers of WW2 it was used as an unbreakable code by the Wookies allowing information to be given with out the enemy ever even getting a hint of what is being said, even if the transmission is interecepted and they spend months trying to decode it (even years maybe).

[Aurbere]

I didnt presume to lecture, but I would MAYBE give Wedge an edge, both Him and Dodonna are in their comfort zone here honestly. Wedge was masterful at defense and Dodonna equally so at Siege. The 2 I believe are a perfect match for one another in this situation. (Wedge might take the edge in other situation Dodonna in still others)

 

I honestly believe Wedge is the RR's best tactitian as well. But after ship calculations I Feel the WA does have the slight ship advantage thus I think Battle Meditation would ultimately just neutral that Ship advantage, and with Wedge and Dodonna, I feel they cancel each other out as well....

 

The one thing that May tip it in WA's favor again is Saba's Force meld or Battle Meld, allowing her to "Battle Meditation" a select few of her people essentially, dropping some of the effectiveness of Meetra's battle Meditation.

 

"Lecture" was to strong a word, I feel. Anyway, I agree with the main thrust of your post, but maybe not wholly. Wedge and Dodonna are pretty close, so it depends on what the other tacticians add to the field.

[Aurbere]

Another point I wanted to cover, since the RR fleet is already in system and the WA fleet is arriving, thanks to people on the ground the WA fleet has the advantage of knowing much of the RR's make up and with the Secret wookie lanes its possible they will drop out of hyperspace in a location the enemy is not expecting.

 

Furthermore in addition to Hapan intel and their ability to both cover up transimission locations and intercept transmissions if the enemy DOES intercept a transmission from the WA they have no way of understanding it because

 

 

Xaczik Language.

 

 

The Wookie Language Xaczik was a rare language used by the Wookies and much like the Navahoe code Talkers of WW2 it was used as an unbreakable code by the Wookies allowing information to be given with out the enemy ever even getting a hint of what is being said, even if the transmission is interecepted and they spend months trying to decode it (even years maybe).

 

That's an interesting point, and Dodonna works best when he knows the logistics of the forces at play. Same could be said for any tactician, but I feel Dodonna is more exceptional at it than most.