Anybody worried about increased gold seller activity with all the new credit sinks?

[Tsillah]

I do think BW are doing something about gold sellers. I remember how tight things were before F2P. Hardly ever a gold seller message. I mean I saw one or two email messages before the game went F2P.

 

F2P of course gave an easy way into the game for gold sellers and BW needs to check before banning people because they don't want to accidentally ban players that got falsely accused for example.

 

But gold sellers can make new accounts faster than BW can ban them.

 

I don't know how many actually buy credits but it's clear the gold sellers think there's money to be made for them or they wouldn't be here.

 

Until now though, this game didn't really have gold sinks like we'll be getting now. There are different opinions but let's not forget that it's all about opinions. I am sure that housing is one of those things that could very well be a core feature of the game. People have been asking for it since pre-launch. And basic features like legacy storage are also expected by many players and there's a reason why these new things are called core or basic features for the game. And this reason is that other games people have played have these features right from the start and so this sets an expectation of a certain standards.

 

We are now getting credit sinks that are more hefty. This is mostly what's new in the game, but also because of how the game works, the game as such is casual friendly but it doesn't reward the gameplay that a lot of more casual players play. What I mean with that is that people who spend a lot of time leveling don't make so many credits and with housing coming in these players will do activities that are not too demanding but will get them decorations. So sm ops, fp's, story missions and other quests and heroics are mainstay for such players and they might dabble in a little pvp and gsf occasionally. Dailies, well, it depends on how much you can stomach that level of repetition.

 

But my opinion is that by bringing in the big credit sinks it will do nothing for the casual player except make the game less fun to play because most of what they do in game doesn't bring in credits, even when it takes just as much or more time.

 

You can do the 5 Ilum dailies in 15 mins and bring in 60-70K. That's not bad. But if I do a complete HM Flash Point, which takes 30-40 mins depending on the group and FP, I'd be lucky to walk away with 10-15k. The supposition is that you get loot and commendations but on both counts I can tell you they're crap and you may or may not get sellable loot depending on your luck. So perhaps FP bosses should drop creds instead of crap loot so it becomes a reliable source of credits.

 

So I am worried that these new credit sinks, that are hefty for a lot of players, without getting a wider variety to gain credits, could make people more interested in turning towards gold sellers, especially since the cc prices are also rather hefty. BW would be wise in my view to give people more tools except the same ole dailies to make the credits they need for the credit sinks even if they reduce the prices that are on the PTS now.

[OddballEasyEight]

No, I'm not worried.

 

The thing with goldsellers is that it doesn't really work very well.

Most people who use it either get ripped off by the goldsellers outright, or get ripped off later by them (keyloggers and such) or get banned from the game by bioware.

 

It's not like it's a business based on the happiness of the customers... it's a business based on the ignorance of customers and greed.

 

Most people know enough to stay away from goldsellers. Those who don't are usually either new to the MMO market or just young (and stupid).

 

Besides, gold seller activity isn't tied to in-game costs. It's tied to the success and popularity of a game. Gold sellers were pretty much non-existant in the game for a long time. And that was back when you couldn't buy your own credits via the CM, so credits had to be worked hard for (hard is an opinionated term, but still).

But then the game picked up more players again and the gold sellers took notice again.

 

It's not about in-game costs. It's about the popularity of the game.

Money is easy to come buy in the game (especially if you want to use real money to get credits).

 

PS. Guild ships and legacy storage are not credit sinks. They are one-time expenses. They may be very large expenses, but they are not credit sinks.

Edited July 27, 2014 by OddballEasyEight

[Lotharofxev]

Most people who use it either get ripped off by the goldsellers outright, or get ripped off later by them (keyloggers and such) or get banned from the game by bioware.

 

Do you have any documentation for those claims? Guildy of mine bought gold twice in WoW. (Same source I * think *). It was a 24 hour (or so) purchase cycle.

 

Very difficult to detect / prove. It certainly is not a straight 'trade' with player Xnghty.

 

Since your CC is protected against un-authorized purchases, and you never give them access to your account (that's people who pay to level), unless they run a third-party program through their chat interface, not sure how you get hacked.

 

Please understand, I can't stand their spam. But there is a market for them and imo said market will explode come GSH / Legacy Storage et al.

[Arygaath]

I believe that Bioware could combat credit-sellers better if they wished.

Even if removing it completely might be impossible, at least they could reduce it if they prioritized for this.

 

Thus, it seems to me that they consider it a low-priority problem.

On the other hand, they risk losing real money in the process for not adressing it properly.

 

A simple buzz-word detection system could alert in-game moderators and suspend the account of the person who was spamming, using words which are typical for credit sellers. If the detection system flagged the wrong person, they could just contact support and have them remove the suspension. Not a perfect solution, but without any improvements, the general chat stays useless.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Arygaath

[hadoken]

So what do you think, will the amount of gold seller activity increase with this patch?

 

No, it would increase with player population which I honestly don't see Strongholds bringing in. You should see the gold spam in brand new games (where all the people are). It actually has very little to do with what the gold is used on/for (take ESO where gold was pretty much useless yet the spam was horrendous).

[Tsillah]

No, it would increase with player population which I honestly don't see Strongholds bringing in. You should see the gold spam in brand new games (where all the people are). It actually has very little to do with what the gold is used on/for (take ESO where gold was pretty much useless yet the spam was horrendous).

 

That sounds sensible to me.

[Master_Hitsugaya]

I'm sure they will be around and catching their suckers. One is born every minute you know. I really wish bioware would censor out website names as they pop up which would severely hamper their ability to communicate their gold selling message effectively. I think they would just go away if nobody understood where to go to get in touch with them.

 

You do know if someone is low on credits typs swtor credits in google and websites pop up that sell them. They won't go away because when it comes down to it you can drops hundreds of real life money trying to get that mount from cartel packs or you can spend $20 and get 3-4 million creds from a gold seller and buy the mount off the GTN. Throw in the fact they are the easy way and the fast way which appeals to the lazy and I want it now crowds.

[DarthTHC]

How many people are actually buying Credits?

 

Right now, almost none.

 

Right after Treek came out? A lot.

 

When 2.9 releases? I think it's going to spike pretty high.

 

BioWare has the credit costs way out of kilter as compared with the CC costs. This puts the prices that illicit credit sellers charge at a much more favorable point than the CC -> Item route and especially the CC -> Pack -> GTN -> Credits route, especially with the built in delays on that last path.

 

I can't imagine why you would buy credits from the credit sellers when you could support the devs and buy cartel market packs to get credits. Doesn't make sense to me.

 

As another poster has suggested, speed and value. If you want to turn money into credits via BioWare's Cartel Market, you have a few drawbacks:

 

1) A built-in delay before you can even think about getting your credits

2) Even more delay as you wait for the CM item(s) you posted to GTN to sell

3) An uncertain exchange rate - you don't know how many credits you'll really get

 

With a gold seller, they're pretty sophisticated these days. The financial transaction for almost all of them is done via PayPal - no more or less dangerous than buying from Joe Schmoe on Ebay. The "good" ones tend to deliver quickly, and almost all of them offer a 24 hour guarantee. Also, the exchange rate is generally more favorable via a gold seller. I think the average $ -> CC -> Packs -> GTN -> credits rate gets you somewhere around $10 to $11 per million credits. You've all seen what the credit sellers are advertising.

 

Unfortunately, BioWare can't really combat this. There are big problems detecting illicit transactions and even bigger problems if they were to sell credits to players outright.

Edited July 27, 2014 by DarthTHC

[Anaesha]

This honestly is my main worry with all the excessive pricing in the 2.9/GSH content. It's going to force people right into bed with the gold sellers because they are paying less to buy gold then they would be paying for the CCs to purchase all the stuff..

[Thoop]

i wonder who makes more money off this game?

 

a high end dev

 

or

 

the nerd in his moms basement with a credit selling webpage

 

or

 

maybe they are the same people double dipping and that's why they never seem to get busted

[OddballEasyEight]

Right now, almost none.

 

Right after Treek came out? A lot.

 

How do you know that?

[DarthTHC]

How do you know that?

 

I have been fascinated with MMO currency dealers since the early days of WoW, maybe earlier, when I read a news article saying they would (then) soon be a billion dollar industry. That seemed like an insane amount of money for people to spend on the game... instead of just playing the game and getting the currency that way.

 

Through my research over the years, I know who they are, what sorts of people buy from them, how they operate, how their operations have changed in the last dozen years or so, and where to look to see what current demand is.

 

i wonder who makes more money off this game?

 

The lead producer makes the most, assuming s/he has a deal that pays a release bonus. After that, the various team leads can make quite a bit as well.

 

The busy credit seller web sites make more than coders, world builders, testers, etc., easily.

Edited July 27, 2014 by DarthTHC

[BrianDavion]

I'm sure they will be around and catching their suckers. One is born every minute you know. I really wish bioware would censor out website names as they pop up which would severely hamper their ability to communicate their gold selling message effectively. I think they would just go away if nobody understood where to go to get in touch with them.

 

it would also really hamper the ability of guilds to recruit.

[JimG]

I can't imagine why you would buy credits from the credit sellers when you could support the devs and buy cartel market packs to get credits. Doesn't make sense to me.

Yep, there's no need to buy from credit sellers when you can just buy and re-sell CM stuff.

Cartel market packs don't magically spawn credits (at least not most of it).

If we get a massive credit deflation because of all the new credit sinks, credits might become worth more, you'd have fewer players willing to buy your overpriced cartel market stuff on the GTN.

Buying and selling unopened CM packs is a pretty steady market. Buying packs and opening them with the intention of re-selling the stuff in the packs isn't really the way to go.