Guildships COST 50 MILLION CREDITS!?

[DarthTHC]

What I get a kick out of is all those that think they have the right to tell others what to do in a game. It is their time. They want to play the game. So they should. Hell if they had made it a decent price I could buy the damn thing. A guild shouldn't be about toys it should be what is better for members. Yeh I know that is evil. If the players are having fun leave them the flock alone. It is their time let them enjoy it. Oh that is right everyone is spending all their credits.

TBH they can take the GS,OPS,GFC but other people enjoy it so that is a good thing.

 

Who do you think is telling anyone anything?

 

If I'm not mistaken, the developers have set the acquisition of guild ships to use credits. 50 million of them. So the devs are telling you that, if you want and value a guild ship, you will get the 50 million credits to obtain one. If you do not want or value a guild ship enough to get the 50 million credits, then you don't need to get the 50 million credits.

 

If you didn't understand that, well, hopefully you do now.

 

A guild is absolutely about what's good for members. By that token, guilds should discuss whether or not they want a guild ship and, if they think they do, decide whether or not they really want one given the path to acquisition. It should be a guild decision whether or not to acquire one and then, if they get one, how to use it.

 

So I guess after the developers tell you that if you want a guild ship, you need to stop gambling on the Rancor your guild can tell you that they do (or do not) want the ship. Then what?

[well]

Who do you think is telling anyone anything?

 

If I'm not mistaken, the developers have set the acquisition of guild ships to use credits. 50 million of them. So the devs are telling you that, if you want and value a guild ship, you will get the 50 million credits to obtain one. If you do not want or value a guild ship enough to get the 50 million credits, then you don't need to get the 50 million credits.

 

If you didn't understand that, well, hopefully you do now.

 

A guild is absolutely about what's good for members. By that token, guilds should discuss whether or not they want a guild ship and, if they think they do, decide whether or not they really want one given the path to acquisition. It should be a guild decision whether or not to acquire one and then, if they get one, how to use it.

 

So I guess after the developers tell you that if you want a guild ship, you need to stop gambling on the Rancor your guild can tell you that they do (or do not) want the ship. Then what?

 

The ship is new content that is it. Value? This is about a credit sink. Another credit sink. That is impressive. Wait know it isn't.

 

"Who do you think is telling anyone anything?"

 

 

Are you for real? So your still beating the NS casino thing. Project much?

[Rakugo]

I honestly dont see the fuss about 50 mill even for a smaller guild. Hell there will be players who own a guild and are the only member of the guild nonetheless and still will end up with a flagship and even a fully unlocked one.

 

the problem with many people in the game is they dont know how to make credits, or spend way too much. There was someone posting here on how one can make credits and someon else replied that can be achieved but by spending waaaaaaaay to many ours on the game. Thats damn far from being accurate. I can make 3 mill a day and thats just spending 2 maybe 3 hours a day on the game and thats way below average playtime for most player. The problem with this is that people rather actually wanna play instead of making money. I just send companions out on missions on all my toons, send materials over to the crafting toons, i craft and i sell, rinse and repeat.

 

Dont get me wrong i was always broke and i've been playing since launch. Untill i found out how to actually benefit from crafting. If people do the research you can easilly make money. First trick is, DONT buy crap, and with that i mean dont go buy stuff you use once and then sell it to a vendor.

 

On one of my latest toon i ended up with 2 Mill on my char when i reached 55 and thats after i bought my speeder skill and class skills. gear up using comes, stop ripping mods out on a low level toon just to stay in a certain type of gear of your choosing. If u want to do that, stop complaining about being broke.

 

Someone did a math where 15 who grind dailies and sell blues and mats to gnt should have the money with in 2 weeks or 2 months on a long run. Someone else commented, that given that they should donate the money is a rare occasion and probably wont work.

One advice, kick the Fu.......kers out. Seriouslly any of the core members or people who just wanna join a guild for flagship and want to enjoy all the things it has to offer but dont want to help get one should be kicked and let them work on one on their own.

Nothing comes for free.

 

A flagship is something you should work for, even a small guild can get one if they put their mind to it.

The only thing thats not worth a total 50 mill to unlock all to the fullest, is the legacy bank, given that if u spread the money out on toos to unlock cargo or bays and bags you get more space then a legacy bank has to offer. Just enjoy the first free bay of legacy bank and put what ever BoL stuff you got in there,

 

And bet your ***** that when the new crafting schematic comes out to make mk-1, 2 and 3 tokens to exchange into decorations people will be selling those allot and that will generate credits as well and there you have it ones more, another way to make credit in the game. Do some research, save money, and then you will be able to buy stuff you actually want and will use in a long run.

[Kulyok]

The problem with this is that people rather actually wanna play instead of making money.

 

I'm sorry, I just can't stop laughing...

Edited August 1, 2014 by Kulyok

[slafko]

Me neither. I played less than three hours today and made 500k. However, I might be doing it wrong.

[Sabatus]

First of all thanks for actually going into your reasons, this topic is filled with too many oneliner "i win" posts or pure blatant demagogy.

 

Mostly because you use terms like 'reasonable' when describing what you think is a good price. It's biased simply because you started out believing that 50mil is too expensive for you and your guild and that a cheaper price is 'reasonable.' You do this because, from your perspective, 50mil is way too much and you'd prefer that it was cheaper. But simply saying "the price is too high!' doesn't carry much weight as people will just laugh at you and tell you to actually put in some effort and stop whining and crying on the forums about pixel money.

 

You are correct, it is my opinion that 50m credits as the entry fee to this content is too much and does not offer sufficient benefit to offset it. As there is no infallible "truth" about "value", I cannot give you a mathematical proof it is so, I have simply outlined and detailed my opinions. Your opinion is that it is not too expensive, but you cannot (or do not) provide any valid proof that it is the "truth" as well, since, as noted, that would be impossible. Our opinions on this matter simply diverge and it is unlikely that we would eventually adopt the other's position.

 

Also, you use terms like 'badly designed' when it's painfully clear that you simply don't like the system since it requires 'credits' and not some other method that you could do easier.

 

The only purpose of this "mechanic" that I can see is a credit sink. The prices are hugely disproportionate to anything we've seen in the game before and it is a known fact that inflation and whales amassing huge amounts of credits is becoming or even has become an issue. It is true that I do not like the system, but that does not have any effect on whether it is well or badly designed. I outlined the reasons I think it is badly designed - it either forces people to grind "new" money from dailys and other content that did not exist before (negating the credit sink, in fact I'm pretty sure the in-game credit creation has multiplied over the last few weeks) or temporarily strips whales of some credits which they will re-earn (killing whales without a credit cap is impossible while there exist limited-availability items, the GTN and people with the knowledge of how MMO economies work). It also does absolutely nothing whatsoever about the continued creation of credits into the system (which, as noted, legacy crafting mats requirements actually do a bit), therefore most likely creating the need for another even greater onetime credit sink again in the future. The fact is that I will continue to amass huge number of credits (since there are no real ongoing credit costs to the game for me) until the next time they pull this trick and then it will require an even longer "organized effort" from other people.

 

you use terms like 'forces' when no one has a gun to anyone's head and no one is being forced to do anything.

Either people grind/pay the credits or they cannot access that content. It is true that noone is threatening their life or physical wellbeing, but lets agree not to get into absurd semantic arguments.

 

Lastly, you throw around 'grind' like it's a bad term or something new to MMOs. I'm sorry if this is the first time anyone's told you, but grinding is what MMOs do. If you weren't grinding credits, you'd be grinding FPs and OPs and Warzones and other things. So, in short, the entirety of your argument can be boiled down to this:

 

"I don't want to pay a lot of credits for a Guild Ship. The price is too high."

 

I hate long-term grinds. My time is too valuable to me to put up with them. I'm relatively fine with short term grinds, such as HK (yay for digging stuff), reputation (I can do it at my own pace, I'm not locked out of content even if I am not at Legend level) etc.

 

As stated before, I will most likely pay the credits for the ship. to access the content. Doing so however will in no way make me feel it was worth it or that it wasn't a badly masked and badly designed credit sink which has the effect of locking people (at least temporarily) out of the content. I like level starting grounds on content.

 

If 3.0 would bring a trio of new cool ops, but the guilds could only start it after paying a one-time fee of 300 million credits to "show that the guilds are real and worthy of it", would you be fine with that? What would the folks who bother with world/server first races say?

 

Sabatus, what are your thoughts on my suggestion here?

 

I agree with that suggestion. The entry barrier should be lower and I have no problem with a fully unlocked ship taking even two years to do, as long as it does not lock people out of said content. Decorative fluff such as more room on the ship, minor buffs to the mechanics etc are a normal progression mechanic.

[DarthDymond]

A major point of contention for those opposed to the price tag is that Guilds are "locked out" of content - the Conquest System - until they acquire a Flag Ship. While I am not at all disputing that the system is "content", I have to ask - do we know anything about what type of content it is?

 

I ask because my assumption has been that Guilds will "Conquer" planets by parking their ship at that planet and having members do associated content that is already in-game (e.g. you'll Conquer Oricon by having your Guild complete more runs of the Daily quests than any other Guild attempting that planet). Has there been any indication that the system is going to involve anything (other than the rewards) that isn't already playable in-game?

 

Again, I still think it would count as legitimate content, but content in the same sense as NiMs are content, for example. I'm not personally expecting new quests, mechanics or enemies out of this - just a new system overlaid on top of the existing "stuff" you can already do that will provide new rewards and incentives.

Edited August 1, 2014 by DarthDymond

[Sabatus]

A major point of contention for those opposed to the price tag is that Guilds are "locked out" of content - the Conquest System - until they acquire a Flag Ship. While I am not at all disputing that the system is "content", I have to ask - do we know anything about what type of content it is?

 

I ask because my assumption has been that Guilds will "Conquer" planets by parking their ship at that planet and having members do associated content that is already in-game (e.g. you'll Conquer Oricon by having your Guild complete more runs of the Daily quests than any other Guild attempting that planet). Has there been any indication that the system is going to involve anything (other than the rewards) that isn't already playable in-game?

 

Again, I still think it would count as legitimate content, but content in the same sense as NiMs are content, for example. I'm not personally expecting new quests, mechanics or enemies out of this - just a new system overlaid on top of the existing "stuff" you can already do that will provide new rewards and incentives.

 

For some people, capital ships as is are a major content, especially since it sounds like you can decorate them.

 

As for the rest, all we know is from dataminers and we'll have to wait til it hits PTS to actually see ourselves. However, I would not except this to be NIM level content - designing a major new system (even if it builds on top of other stuff a lot) for a vast minority of players would be beyond unlikely due to cost/appeal value and for the same reasons I do assume that the system will not be "winner takes all" - yes, surely the winning guild will get a major edge, but participation will net something (such as the tokens required to unlock additional rooms).

[DarthTHC]

The ship is new content that is it. Value? This is about a credit sink. Another credit sink. That is impressive. Wait know it isn't.

 

"Who do you think is telling anyone anything?"

 

Are you for real? So your still beating the NS casino thing. Project much?

 

If the only value you see in the ship is a credit drain, why do you care about acquiring it?

 

Project much? I dropped 50k in the casino because I wanted to try it. I have credits because I don't blow them.

 

I would love for everyone who's complaining of the guild ship price to tell us how much they dropped on the casino. There is no way they will do that with the real number.

Edited August 1, 2014 by DarthTHC

[ImmortalLowlife]

If the only value you see in the ship is a credit drain, why do you care about acquiring it?

 

Project much? I dropped 50k in the casino because I wanted to try it. I have credits because I don't blow them.

 

I would love for everyone who's complaining of the guild ship price to tell us how much they dropped on the casino. There is no way they will do that with the real number.

 

I've spent a grand total of 25k in the casino in game, and about $40 in casinos irl lol

[DarthDymond]

For some people, capital ships as is are a major content, especially since it sounds like you can decorate them.

 

As for the rest, all we know is from dataminers and we'll have to wait til it hits PTS to actually see ourselves. However, I would not except this to be NIM level content - designing a major new system (even if it builds on top of other stuff a lot) for a vast minority of players would be beyond unlikely due to cost/appeal value and for the same reasons I do assume that the system will not be "winner takes all" - yes, surely the winning guild will get a major edge, but participation will net something (such as the tokens required to unlock additional rooms).

Just to be clear, my analogy to NiMs wasn't trying to say that it will be a higher difficulty mode, or even something designed for a small subset of players, just that it will involve a "new take" with new rewards on existing content, rather than something entirely separate.

 

The same way when you run NiM Dread Palace you're still going through fundamentally the same progression and seeing the same stuff as in SM (just at a higher difficulty and with different rewards), I would expect that Conquest will have you going through fundamentally the same progression of Daily Quests or whatever other existing content is incorporated (just now it will "count" towards some progression measure that applies to your Guild as a whole and with different rewards).

[Sabatus]

I would love for everyone who's complaining of the guild ship price to tell us how much they dropped on the casino. There is no way they will do that with the real number.

 

900k. Got a rancor and the exploding machine within the first 150k, gave it a few more tries afterwards to see if I could get another rancor. Nope, got 2 speeders instead. In total, less than 0.5% of my net worth.

[Sabatus]

If the only value you see in the ship is a credit drain, why do you care about acquiring it?

 

Also, based on this and previous posts, you really need to work on your text comprehension skills. Nowhere did he say the only value he sees in the ship is a credit sink. That would be an amazingly silly thing to say in fact. What was said was that instead of value it is a credit sink.

 

Another nice effort into derailing the topic though and going off on a random tangent, well done.

[Sabatus]

Just to be clear, my analogy to NiMs wasn't trying to say that it will be a higher difficulty mode, or even something designed for a small subset of players, just that it will involve a "new take" with new rewards on existing content, rather than something entirely separate.

 

The same way when you run NiM Dread Palace you're still going through fundamentally the same progression and seeing the same stuff as in SM (just at a higher difficulty and with different rewards), I would expect that Conquest will have you going through fundamentally the same progression of Daily Quests or whatever other existing content is incorporated (just now it will "count" towards some progression measure that applies to your Guild as a whole and with different rewards).

 

I stand corrected. It still makes no sense though to create an exclusively "NIM-sh" reward tier and I doubt it is designed to be so. If Bioware did in fact intend that and would come out and actually say it, I would expect the forums to explode in a much more colourful fashion. And if so, they could have untied the ship and the conquests, as the ship itself is obviously and evidently (see: all the fuss on this topic) a major piece of content on its own for people.

 

You don't implement content from top-down, you implement it from bottom-up to provide most appeal and profit. As evidenced by us not getting NIM ops before storymodes every time a new one comes around.

[scottythebod]

I enjoy doing the content I like at at my own pace. I do HM ops, I do SM ops, I dabble in crafting, I have an unreasonably high number of alts because I enjoy class stories and its the most "fourth pillar-ish" content left for us. I do not enjoy grinding just because of grinding. I don't think I've done a single daily for a good 6-9 months.

 

To be clear, I have enough assets to unlock the capital ship fully on day 1 and it is relatively likely that I will do so for the guild so they can get to the content without having to pay extra or grind extra. I however do not agree that our guild should need someone like that to access new content and I think it sets a very dangerous precedent for the future. The cost barrier is nothing but a credit sink to vacuum extra credits out of the system and it is badly implemented onetime thing, the "organized effort" there is just words. It will affect smaller guilds without "whales" negatively forcing them to grind and save up to access content instead of enjoying the game and using their earnings for better uses. I do not believe the 50m credit entry cost has a reasonable cost/benefit ratio.

So the content you're doing anyway nets you credits. By doing the content you were going to do anyway you've earned enough to buy a ship BY YOURSELF. So where is the necessary "grind" you keep talking about?

 

And your guild doesn't need anyone with assets to buy the ship by themselves. In fact BW specifically mentions this is something you're supposed to join together & accomplish as a group, not depend on one person to supply for the entire guild. In fact here's what the SWTOR official website says about guild ships

 

As the war between the Empire and the Republic rages, the galaxy’s greatest heroes have expanded their influence by acquiring STRONGHOLDS, customizable bastions of personal luxury. In a bid for power, these heroes must join together to launch their own GUILD FLAGSHIPS and conquer planets across the galaxy.

Notice how it says "join together" not "wait for one guild member to grind out the credits by himself" If no one else in your guild was willing to do any work or donate from their funds to help you pay for the ship I'd say you may want to look at getting better guild members. With even a relatively small guild you should be able to spread the load over several members & get the ship without grinding. By simply doing the op's, & light crafting you were going to do anyway. Which as it turns out you've admitted to being able to do some crafting & ops at your own pace & have come up with enough to buy the ship with just your credits. So how is it that a group can't come up with it by just doing what they were going to do anyway & donating credits over the several months since this has been announced until it's implemented?(still 3 weeks away)

 

You have the money, it has nothing to do with you not wanting to grind. You're just using that as an excuse because saying "I have plenty of money by myself to buy the ship for my entire guild but I don't want to spend that much on a ship" isn't going to lead anyone to feel sorry for you. And not wanting to spend that money on the ship is perfectly fine & reasonable. You feel 50 mil is too much, don't buy the ship.

 

If BW did a paid expansion & after looking at the details I decided the content provided by the expansion isn't worth the money they charge for it, I wouldn't buy it. I would miss out on some content but if I deem that content not worth the money then I can't say I'm missing much. By buying the ship you are in essence admitting the content provided is worth the effort to make 50 mil.

[DarthTHC]

Also, based on this and previous posts, you really need to work on your text comprehension skills. Nowhere did he say the only value he sees in the ship is a credit sink. That would be an amazingly silly thing to say in fact. What was said was that instead of value it is a credit sink.

 

Another nice effort into derailing the topic though and going off on a random tangent, well done.

 

I've seen his posts demanding it be free, so, no he really doesn't see any value in it yet he's complaining about the price. People who see value in things can set a non-zero price on that value.

 

For example, everyone posting to this forum sees entertainment value in this game, and they've set the value of that entertainment at $15 (or more) per month.

[scottythebod]

That does not mean that I think the price should remain as it is...I think alternate means to acquire the ship would fine IMO, or more exactly a mix of credits and other activities or materials...but I think it is possible, as a group effort, to reach this goal, much easier than it would be for an individual to do so.

 

Just my take on it.

I keep seeing people say this & I have to admit I don't really understand how this isn't what they're doing already. Take your statement, you want them to accept "a mix of credits & other activities or materials".

 

What materials would they accept that can't be converted into credits? What's the difference between them accepting materials & you selling materials for credits which they do accept?

 

What activities could they use as a means of earning the ship that you don't receive credits for doing? What's the difference from them giving you activities to earn the ship & you doing activities that already exist & using the money from those activities to buy the ship?

 

I'm just not getting the difference. And honestly depending on how they would implement it the system you're describing could end up being worse. Lets say they decide to accept multiple different sources, there's really 2 ways to do that as far as I see it. First of all they'd have to come up with a system of rewarding you for completing the activity. So lets say they take op's/pvp/quests already in game & give tokens for completion. They would then have to figure out how long each activity takes in order to assign a value to the tokens. (wouldn't be fair if the tokens had the same value but some were easier/faster to complete, ex. if it took 500 tokens of any kind to get the ship but you could earn a quest token in half the time it took you to earn a PvP/ops token people will complain)

 

Then comes the decision on if you have to turn in a certain number of all the sources or can mix & match. For instance, do I have to turn in 100 PvP tokens + 100 ops tokens + 100 of a particular crafting material + 10 million credits or can I turn in just 50 million credits or 500 PvP tokens only etc.

 

The problem here is then they have to spend time coming up with a credit value for all the tokens in order to allow mixing & matching (how many tokens of each kind equal 50 million credits to buy the ship?) If they don't allow mixing & matching you are again forcing people to do things they don't want to(PvPers have to get ops tokens, PvEers have to do PvP for tokens etc.) So no matter what this gives extra work for the devs (and they've already had to push this back once as is) & really doesn't make anything any better than the way it is now IMO.

 

Credits can be earned from any in game activity, so no matter what you like to do you can earn credits doing it & help pitch in for the ship. Is it perfect, no. But as I see it it's the best option.