SW:TOR 4th biggest Sub MMO in the world

[Heat-Wave]

Oh there shouldn't ever be a doubt they're making money off the Cartel Market. I'm not sure how many subs you could actually extrapolate that into (and I notice the company didn't try, insufficient info).

 

There are not a lot of subs. If there were, EA would be shouting it from the roof tops. The fact that they are totally silent says much.

 

The CM is keeping the game open. I was chatting with a guildie the other day, he has a walker. Paid about 20 million for it on BC. He bought 8 hypercrates trying to win it, opened every one of them, nothing, no walker, so he bought one off the GTN.

 

People like him are keeping the game open.

[Darth_Wicked]

There are not a lot of subs. If there were, EA would be shouting it from the roof tops. The fact that they are totally silent says much.

 

The CM is keeping the game open. I was chatting with a guildie the other day, he has a walker. Paid about 20 million for it on BC. He bought 8 hypercrates trying to win it, opened every one of them, nothing, no walker, so he bought one off the GTN.

 

People like him are keeping the game open.

 

/In before...

subs don't matter in a f2p game, since f2p and them preferred are the ones dropping the dough on the Cartel Market. Hahahaha...!!!

[BrianDavion]

There are not a lot of subs. If there were, EA would be shouting it from the roof tops. The fact that they are totally silent says much.

 

The CM is keeping the game open. I was chatting with a guildie the other day, he has a walker. Paid about 20 million for it on BC. He bought 8 hypercrates trying to win it, opened every one of them, nothing, no walker, so he bought one off the GTN.

 

People like him are keeping the game open.

 

There are a sizeable number of subs, thing is even if the absolute best picture of subs was true and EA shouted it from the roof tops the reaction would be "well WoW's better!"

[Infernixx]

There are not a lot of subs. If there were, EA would be shouting it from the roof tops. The fact that they are totally silent says much.

 

The CM is keeping the game open. I was chatting with a guildie the other day, he has a walker. Paid about 20 million for it on BC. He bought 8 hypercrates trying to win it, opened every one of them, nothing, no walker, so he bought one off the GTN.

 

People like him are keeping the game open.

 

Opinions are awesome.

 

That said, let's assume for giggles that your assertion is somehow correct and not just something that you've arbitrarily decided is reality. Let's assume that the CM is making them hundreds of millions of dollars per year.

 

The only thing that means is that they're not reliant on subs to maintain the game, but the core players who are probably subs anyway.

 

Hooray, we're no longer dependent on the ADHD afflicted locust crowd who flock and consume content and then unsub until the next Operation hits the PTS.

[Heat-Wave]

Clearly, the EA people got to Superdata. As we all know, the game is mere days away from maintenance mode and shutting down like SWG did. They're obviously using misleading information in order to make some of our forum posters look bad.

 

I demand an investigation!

 

This game isn't days away from MX mode, it has been on it all year. GSF and GSH are minor content releases that don't detract from MX mode. Neither does the pair of FP of Forged Alliances.

 

If 3.0 comes later this year with a Makeb sized expansion, I'm happy to revisit this and reconsider, but as it stands, it screams MX mode to me.

 

2013 was a much better year than 2014 for this game.

[Heat-Wave]

Why would you expect to see the reinvestment 'now?' We're on the downhill slope toward a new expansion. Most games never bother adding new content at this point in time in the expansion cycle, much less new features, by the way.

 

If two new features and regular content release isn't enough, check back in December and you'll see your reinvestment.

 

I would expect to see Chapter 5 of class stories...

 

I would like to see a Makeb style expansion on even years and a new chapter in specific class stories in odd years., along with 60 day minor content updates.

 

That is what I expect for a reinvestment.

[Darth_Wicked]

2013 was a much better year than 2014 for this game.

 

2012 was far better than 2014 has been and everyone who was around knows how troubled that year was, with the shift to F2P later that year, servers becoming a graveyard back and forth, character transfers taking forever to come, cross server queues being DENIED, etc etc.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[Infernixx]

This game isn't days away from MX mode, it has been on it all year. GSF and GSH are minor content releases that don't detract from MX mode. Neither does the pair of FP of Forged Alliances.

 

If 3.0 comes later this year with a Makeb sized expansion, I'm happy to revisit this and reconsider, but as it stands, it screams MX mode to me.

 

2013 was a much better year than 2014 for this game.

 

This must be your first MMO. Congratulations on having the good taste to start with TOR.

 

Now that you've plainly shown that you're new to this sort of stuff, I'll explain how it works.

 

Most MMOs function on what is called the 'expansion cycle.' This cycle exists in the form of a series of content releases that usually starts with the release of a game's latest expansion. Content comes out at a pre-determined rate and then at a certain point, the primary focus of development shifts from the current expansion to the 'next' expansion. At this point, most MMOs give minor update patches, balance patches, maybe a PVP patch, but the majority of their development attention is now put into the next expansion that's coming down the pipe.

 

TOR is one of the exceptions to this rule as they've pumped out two whole new features to the game, neither of which cost the players anything, even as they shifted development from the HC expansion to the next unnamed expansion expected at the end of the year.

 

Most other games tend to forego any further development on current expansions once they release their last major content patch. Consider WoW where they're on the path to making their players wait over a year for any sort of new content, being content to sit on their laurels and put all their focus on a new expansion.

 

So, taken as a whole, you'll see that TOR outperforms most of the MMO crowd when it comes to content release even on the downhill slope toward a new expansion.

 

I hope this helps clarify your perspective on things and you can see how that whole 'maintenance mode' thing I threw out there was a joke aimed at the idiots who honestly think that a game that's making $200,000,000 a year is in danger of being put into maintenance mode.

[Heat-Wave]

Do you people just ignore the fact that the CM items are made by a completely DIFFERENT team from the one that does the normal content like GSF, GSH, and 3.0?

 

Do you just ignore that the CM gets content every three weeks, on the button, without fail?

 

Do you just ignore that this year, the CM has been the major focus of the game?

 

GSF and GSH are minor updates that both took limited resources to make, 3.0 isn't even being talked about, and we haven't gotten more than a pair of flash points in how long?

[Heat-Wave]

No offense but that makes it sound like you expect them to work on Your schedule and not their own.

 

They can work at their schedule, but they might find no one to play their game if they take too long.

 

A business has to take into account their customers. The "customer is always right" saying didn't come from nothing.

[Infernixx]

They can work at their schedule, but they might find no one to play their game if they take too long.

 

A business has to take into account their customers. The "customer is always right" saying didn't come from nothing.

 

you're certainly free to take off. Considering their revenue numbers, I think it's safe to say that most of us are fine with their content release.

 

And speaking as someone who's done Customer service, I can assure you that the customer isn't always right. In fact, the customer is often retardedly wrong. Blatantly wrong. Defiantly wrong even as plain obvious reality is dangled before their eyes, they are determined to be hilariously wrong. Customers are people and most people are wrong on a fairly consistent schedule. Especially when it comes to what they 'think' that they're entitled to having.

[Heat-Wave]

alright i have to say this.

 

 

JUST BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T LIKE GALACTIC STARFIGHTER DOESN'T MEAN IT WASNT NEW CONTENT

so boo hoo they made a flight simulator instead of an op that doesn't mean that there wasn't new content

 

even if virtuly no one plays starfight it was still made and still counts so the whole no new stuff thing is objectivly wrong.

 

And that is why it was made... So people like you would post stuff like that...

 

If actually nothing at all had come out, then everyone would be after their heads, they do a small amount of stuff and get people like you defending them.

 

But of course, the point is lost on you. It may be content, but it isn't enough and it isn't core content, CM stuff is content using your view, it can be purchased on the GTN after all, so are you saying they only have to do CM stuff from now on?

[Heat-Wave]

There are a sizeable number of subs, thing is even if the absolute best picture of subs was true and EA shouted it from the roof tops the reaction would be "well WoW's better!"

 

Don't be silly, number two is a great place to be, just ask Pepsi and Ford.

 

What isn't great is to be 5th or 10th.

 

If this game had 2 million subs, they would be promoting it. I suspect it has fewer than 500k at this point, which they would never want to admit.

[Heat-Wave]

This must be your first MMO. Congratulations on having the good taste to start with TOR.

 

Now that you've plainly shown that you're new to this sort of stuff, I'll explain how it works.

 

Most MMOs function on what is called the 'expansion cycle.' This cycle exists in the form of a series of content releases that usually starts with the release of a game's latest expansion. Content comes out at a pre-determined rate and then at a certain point, the primary focus of development shifts from the current expansion to the 'next' expansion. At this point, most MMOs give minor update patches, balance patches, maybe a PVP patch, but the majority of their development attention is now put into the next expansion that's coming down the pipe.

 

TOR is one of the exceptions to this rule as they've pumped out two whole new features to the game, neither of which cost the players anything, even as they shifted development from the HC expansion to the next unnamed expansion expected at the end of the year.

 

Most other games tend to forego any further development on current expansions once they release their last major content patch. Consider WoW where they're on the path to making their players wait over a year for any sort of new content, being content to sit on their laurels and put all their focus on a new expansion.

 

So, taken as a whole, you'll see that TOR outperforms most of the MMO crowd when it comes to content release even on the downhill slope toward a new expansion.

 

I hope this helps clarify your perspective on things and you can see how that whole 'maintenance mode' thing I threw out there was a joke aimed at the idiots who honestly think that a game that's making $200,000,000 a year is in danger of being put into maintenance mode.

 

How mistaken you are... I was playing Ultima Online 15 years ago.

 

My expectations in 2014 are quite different than they were in 1999. Yea, shocking, isn't it?

 

This game would stay open for the next 5 years, even if it was losing millions of dollars per year. If you don't understand why, then you don't understand corporate accounting.

 

It may well be bringing in $200 million, but that isn't profit and some amount of that profit has to go back to the parent company (investors and all).

 

Then they have to decide if investing $25 million in new class stories and new planets would return more or less than the next Mass Effect or Battlefield would.

 

EA doesn't have unlimited money to make games with, and they only want to take so much risk. Look at what Mass Effect 3 cost to make and how much it sold in the first few weeks/months vs. this game.

 

If I was an investor, I'd make ME 4 long before adding to this game.

 

Hence, MX mode. They have to release "something" every so often to keep people defending them, but it won't be anything major.

[Infernixx]

Don't be silly, number two is a great place to be, just ask Pepsi and Ford.

 

What isn't great is to be 5th or 10th.

 

If this game had 2 million subs, they would be promoting it. I suspect it has fewer than 500k at this point, which they would never want to admit.

 

They could have 47 subs in total and as long as they keep making hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue every year, no one will care.

 

Well, no one should care. But apparently, people still think that sub numbers count for something.

[Infernixx]

How mistaken you are... I was playing Ultima Online 15 years ago.

 

My expectations in 2014 are quite different than they were in 1999. Yea, shocking, isn't it?

 

This game would stay open for the next 5 years, even if it was losing millions of dollars per year. If you don't understand why, then you don't understand corporate accounting.

 

It may well be bringing in $200 million, but that isn't profit and some amount of that profit has to go back to the parent company (investors and all).

 

Then they have to decide if investing $25 million in new class stories and new planets would return more or less than the next Mass Effect or Battlefield would.

 

EA doesn't have unlimited money to make games with, and they only want to take so much risk. Look at what Mass Effect 3 cost to make and how much it sold in the first few weeks/months vs. this game.

 

If I was an investor, I'd make ME 4 long before adding to this game.

 

Hence, MX mode. They have to release "something" every so often to keep people defending them, but it won't be anything major.

 

So, you now think that new expansions aren't anything major. You're 'adorable', don't ever change.

[Aries_cz]

Do you just ignore that the CM gets content every three weeks, on the button, without fail?

 

Do you just ignore that this year, the CM has been the major focus of the game?

 

GSF and GSH are minor updates that both took limited resources to make, 3.0 isn't even being talked about, and we haven't gotten more than a pair of flash points in how long?

 

Do you just ignore that majority of CM content are simple armor models, mostly reused from things that existed before, with some minor tweaks? Meaning things that are on completely different complexity level than new maps or features?

 

Do you just ignore how development teams work, where guys creating armors are usually not the same guys who do maps or coding?

 

Do you just ignore how confusing it might get if they were releasing info about two expansions simultaneously? We already have people asking how to get to Strongholds and Guild Ships in General chat...

[LordArtemis]

According to this thread that 165 Million was seperate from the 139 Mil made from micro transactions alone.

 

Try harder.

 

Guys....guys.

 

Come on now, read the actual report.

 

It is TOTAL REVENUE. Total...not partial, not only subs, not only CM or microtrans....TOTAL revenue.

 

That means revenue from everything. I posted a link to the original source. I can post it again if folks would like.

 

This is not a reliable indicator of how many subs the game has, or how much of that revenue is due to subs or F2P players. It is just a very general total revenue comparison....they have 6 percent of the total reported revenue in the worldwide market. That places them 4th.

 

Its pretty good news IMO, but lets not make it out to be something it isnt.

 

Here is the source.

Edited July 19, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Heat-Wave]

you're certainly free to take off. Considering their revenue numbers, I think it's safe to say that most of us are fine with their content release.

 

And speaking as someone who's done Customer service, I can assure you that the customer isn't always right. In fact, the customer is often retardedly wrong. Blatantly wrong. Defiantly wrong even as plain obvious reality is dangled before their eyes, they are determined to be hilariously wrong. Customers are people and most people are wrong on a fairly consistent schedule. Especially when it comes to what they 'think' that they're entitled to having.

 

I get what you're saying...

 

Then here is another saying for you...

 

"The customer may not always be right, but they are always the customer"

[Tsillah]

Guys....guys.

 

Come on now, read the actual report.

 

It is TOTAL REVENUE. Total...not partial, not only subs, not only CM or microtrans....TOTAL revenue.

 

That means revenue from everything. I posted a link to the original source. I can post it again if folks would like.

 

Which is what I replied to him already in the post directly under the one you quoted, but hey....why not do it again

[LordArtemis]

Which is what I replied to him already in the post directly under the one you quoted, but hey....why not do it again

 

Then I digress. My apologies.

 

More information.....

 

Graphic listing games in list based on total worldwide revenue

 

Fine print....

 

Worldwide market, revenue distribution and title-level earnings based on the monthly spending of 36.9 million digital gamers, worldwide, collected from developers, publisher and payment service providers. Pay-to-play MMO here defined as Massively multiplayer online games that earn revenue from subscriptions, expansion packs, and microtransactions based virtual items and services (e.g. experience boosts, items, mounts and server transfer fees).

Edited July 19, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Heat-Wave]

So, you now think that new expansions aren't anything major. You're 'adorable', don't ever change.

 

Well aren't you nice to speak down to others...

 

The last expansion we received was RotHC. We have had content updates since, some larger than others, but that is the last update that I would call an expansion.

 

If we get a jump to 60, another planet, another chapter in the story, more FP and ops, and we get it in a nice package that everyone calls an expansion, then I'm happy to revise my MX mode view.

 

We know almost nothing about 3.0. It might be all of that and more, or it might not. Time will tell.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Do you just ignore that the CM gets content every three weeks, on the button, without fail?

 

Do you just ignore that this year, the CM has been the major focus of the game?

 

GSF and GSH are minor updates that both took limited resources to make, 3.0 isn't even being talked about, and we haven't gotten more than a pair of flash points in how long?

 

We started this Year with GSF, Kuat Drive Yards, New Warzone Map for Huttball, Rakghoul Event, Forged Alliance start, Casinos and Now GSH. Yeah look at all that content they produced that requires the CM to play. (Hint None of it requires the CM to play.)

[LordArtemis]

IF it could be argued that the CM is the focus of the game...I'm not convinced of that, I see plenty of evidence to the contrary, I would say that focus is exactly where it needs to be....

 

Where the lions portion of revenue potential resides. This is a business, and as a business they have to focus on what maintains a healthy and growing revenue stream. I think the CM is it.

 

In fact, I think the CM needs to be refined and expanded. So I would advocate MORE focus.

 

But then that's just me. I don't speak for anyone but myself.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Guys....guys.

 

Come on now, read the actual report.

 

It is TOTAL REVENUE. Total...not partial, not only subs, not only CM or microtrans....TOTAL revenue.

 

That means revenue from everything. I posted a link to the original source. I can post it again if folks would like.

 

This is not a reliable indicator of how many subs the game has, or how much of that revenue is due to subs or F2P players. It is just a very general total revenue comparison....they have 6 percent of the total reported revenue in the worldwide market. That places them 4th.

 

Its pretty good news IMO, but lets not make it out to be something it isnt.

 

Here is the source.

 

I already admitted that if I was wrong, than I was wrong and that I had only been following the recent conversation and didn't exactly care. So it's no big deal what I say about that, LA.