SW:TOR 4th biggest Sub MMO in the world

[Kantaso]

I just found something called SWG EMU, is this a version of the old SWG?

[Arkerus]

I just found something called SWG EMU, is this a version of the old SWG?

 

Kind of. Its SWG with some missing features, supposedly built from the ground up. Its pre CU and NGE.

[LordArtemis]

I don't have the link here at work but the one of the developers said the game was on a terrible downhill slide before the NGE and while he knows it was a mistake, they thought it would save the game.

 

I apologize I don't have the link here but I have read it multiple times. Yes, the NGE "killed" that game but it was not in good standing before the NGE.

 

(Update, Rubenfield took his blog down. The subs at the time was marked to be around 200k according to a response from Scott Jennings, who didn't appreciate Rubenfield defending the NGE...)

 

Yes, actually that one quote is used for the "200k, losing 10k a month so we had to do CU/NGE" belief that many players put forth and has been posted in this very thread...but there are a few problems with that quote.

 

First, the sub numbers are incorrect, multiple sources, official and otherwise, prove that subs were actually in the 250 to 275 range at the release of the CU and actually were on their way up (slightly) from the month before.

 

Second, multiple devs have come forth since that time to indicate the sole reason was to gain WoW like numbers and it was pushed by LA...not SOE.

 

Third, the original person that posted that comment indicated it was taken out of context and retracted the statement.

 

All of the comments and contrary statements have been posted in the forum, as well as links to the official sources (many of them now regretfully gone).

 

I was one of those that believed the game was dying when the CU/NGE was implemented. I was proven wrong and accepted the truth of the matter.

 

People can make up their own minds, but it is absolutely false that subs were falling by 10k a month when the CU/NGE was implemented, and the subs were much higher than 200k.

 

Again, folks are welcome to seek the truth of the matter and make up their own minds.

Edited July 24, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Arkerus]

Yes, actually that one quote is used for the "200k, losing 10k a month so we had to do CU/NGE" belief that many players put forth and has been posted in this very thread...but there are a few problems with that quote.

 

First, the sub numbers are incorrect, multiple sources, official and otherwise, prove that subs were actually in the 250 to 275 range at the release of the CU and actually were on their way up (slightly) from the month before.

 

Second, multiple devs have come forth since that time to indicate the sole reason was to gain WoW like numbers and it was pushed by LA...not SOE.

 

Third, the original person that posted that comment indicated it was taken out of context and retracted the statement.

 

All of the comments and contrary statements have been posted in the forum, as well as links to the official sources (many of them now regretfully gone).

 

I was one of those that believed the game was dying when the CU/NGE was implemented. I was proven wrong and accepted the truth of the matter.

 

People can make up their own minds, but it is absolutely false that subs were falling by 10k a month when the CU/NGE was implemented, and the subs were much higher than 200k.

 

Again, folks are welcome to seek the truth of the matter and make up their own minds.

 

Well, even if true, (above 200k) it couldn't have been much because its been acknowledged that it was well below half a mill. All we have are the various outlets that reported data and unless you are trying to rewrite history people know SWG was turning into a ghost town on many servers. That said, I really don't care. If people like it, they liked it and that's all that is important. Personally, I didn't like it as a game. Neat social experiment but for me, it failed as a video game. For me, personally.

[LordArtemis]

Well, even if true, (above 200k) it couldn't have been much because its been acknowledged that it was well below half a mill.

 

Absolutely correct. If I am not mistaken the subs never reached much higher than 300k. Obviously the game did not perform very well, especially compared to WoW.

 

All we have are the various outlets that reported data and unless you are trying to rewrite history people know SWG was turning into a ghost town on many servers. That said, I really don't care. If people like it, they liked it and that's all that is important. Personally, I didn't like it as a game. Neat social experiment but for me, it failed as a video game. For me, personally.

 

I think that's fair. There is no doubt in my mind that, had the CU/NGE never been implemented that game would have been lucky to retain the subs it had. Eventually it would have likely suffered the same kind of losses, perhaps not as drastically. It was a horrible game in many respects...and that is coming from a person that is a fan (I still play the game today).

[Kalfear]

Sure, here you go. There is more information out there, I encourage anyone to seek the information themselves and make up their own minds.

 

http://oi59.tinypic.com/296g18w.jpg

 

And my comments...use the graph as a reference to verify what I have written here for yourselves....

 

Game peaked shortly after launch, mid 2003 at 300k subs.

Game lost 25k subs by early 2004, and hovered back and forth around 250k to 275k subs with the release of JTL late 2004. Not a sub hemorrhage by any definition of the word IMO.

The CU came in early 2005 and caused subs to plummet below 200k. Before then subs had stabilized around 250k.

Subs rebounded late 2005 to around 230k subs with the announcement of NGE, but then started a spiral to the bottom after a dismal reception.

By mid to late 2006 SWG had bled from 70k to 120k in subs, to just above 100k subs after the middle of the year. Losses slowed to a more stable population until late 2007, from where (it is assumed, since Sony stopped releasing sub numbers at this point) the losses continued at a steady rate until the game closed in 2012.

 

...all facts that can be easily verified by official sources and those that compiled the subscriber reports from the actual official statements released by SOE. The graph, official statements, statements from actual devs involved in the game AND financial reports all clearly indicate conclusions and postulations that the CU and NGE came about because they were losing subs are simply fallacious.

 

was that MMORPG.com graph LA because that graph was proven false a number of years ago

 

If you want the real numbers go read the quarterly investor meetings from back then. (I saw them posted back in day on the SWG forums like we get here for EA investor meetings. No clue as link address now a days as those forums all locked up tight now)

 

SWG had amazing first month sales and then had something like a 80% cancellation rate by the 3rd month

 

As was stated by Zion

The numbers for SWG were crashing and in massive decline long before the CU and the devs at the time have openly admitted thats what brought on the CU, thats what brought on the Villiage, and eventually the NGE.

 

These were all changes demanded by their "focus groups"

 

Just like so many other games, SWG devs were listening to a rabid minority rather then a more passive majority who simply spoke their displeasure with their wallets.

[TX_Angel]

Yes, actually that one quote is used for the "200k, losing 10k a month so we had to do CU/NGE" belief that many players put forth and has been posted in this very thread...but there are a few problems with that quote.

 

First, the sub numbers are incorrect, multiple sources, official and otherwise, prove that subs were actually in the 250 to 275 range at the release of the CU and actually were on their way up (slightly) from the month before.

 

Second, multiple devs have come forth since that time to indicate the sole reason was to gain WoW like numbers and it was pushed by LA...not SOE.

 

People can make up their own minds, but it is absolutely false that subs were falling by 10k a month when the CU/NGE was implemented, and the subs were much higher than 200k.

 

Again, folks are welcome to seek the truth of the matter and make up their own minds.

 

For what it is worth, have you considered that 250-275k subs might have been considered "dying" by LA and SOE?

 

They may have budgeted and planned for a million subs for all we know, from that point of view, 200k or 275k, what's the difference? Neither are in the ballpark.

 

Also, 250-275k is not what I'd call "much higher" than 200k subs. It is higher, but 500k would be much higher, 250-275k is just a rounding error (10-20% difference)

[LordArtemis]

was that MMORPG.com graph LA because that graph was proven false a number of years ago

 

If you want the real numbers go read the quarterly investor meetings from back then. (I saw them posted back in day on the SWG forums like we get here for EA investor meetings. No clue as link address now a days as those forums all locked up tight now)

 

SWG had amazing first month sales and then had something like a 80% cancellation rate by the 3rd month

 

As was stated by Zion

The numbers for SWG were crashing and in massive decline long before the CU and the devs at the time have openly admitted thats what brought on the CU, thats what brought on the Villiage, and eventually the NGE.

 

These were all changes demanded by their "focus groups"

 

Just like so many other games, SWG devs were listening to a rabid minority rather then a more passive majority who simply spoke their displeasure with their wallets.

 

Well, I don't mean to be combative, but I read the same reports, and the graph is actually correct. The stated subs released in the reports coincide with the reported subs on the graph.

 

The claims that it was "disproved" was posed for another game, not SWG, and the graph was corrected (he actually mentions the mistake and correction). I'm sorry, I don't remember the exact game or the correction date, but I'm sure someone can read through the blog and find it.

 

Not to mention the fact that Smedley himself not only verified the sub numbers, but also the reason for the CU/NGE.

 

Like I said before, I encourage everyone to seek out the information themselves and make up their own minds. That is what I did, and that is why I know what the true subs were, as well as the true reasons the CU/NGE was implemented.

 

There is no need to take my word or anyone else for that matter.

Edited July 24, 2014 by LordArtemis

[OddballEasyEight]

So this thread about SW:TOR being the 4th biggest sub MMO in the world has now turned into a thread about whether or not SWG was losing subs?

 

Okelidokeli.

[LordArtemis]

So this thread about SW:TOR being the 4th biggest sub MMO in the world has now turned into a thread about whether or not SWG was losing subs?

 

Okelidokeli.

 

Hehe, got sidetracked a bit. But yes, we discussed the reasons the CU/NGE was implemented, as well as the amount of subs they had at the time. There are two prevailing opinions on the matter.

 

At any rate, I think the information about SWTOR is promising.