MisterBlackJack Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 To you possibly, to me it's helping others complete it or just doing things to have fun. Gearing up isn't "fun" to me. I think because your coming from the PvP aspect of the game. Gearing is not the be all for you its going into the warzones/battles and duking it out with friends and allies is the fun part. For Darth Wicked, who is more on the Endgame PvE side of the game, sees the gear grind as part of the fun getting that loot after spendings hours/weeks/months on an operations boss is the fun part for him and eliminating the credit sick and restrictions will devalue the progression aspect of PvE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 i can safely say i dont play some of my toons because they dont have the gear. ive grinded gear on so many toons i dont have the drive nor the time to grind even more. making everything BoL or BoP items tradeable within you legacy via legacy storage would drastically increase play time on many of my toons I can understand what you're saying but that is not my point per se. I'm referring to the aspect of repeating a certain type of content, for the sake of obtaining a specific item or specific mat. For example, there's still plenty of people who go and do S&V or TFB from start to finish, in order to get the mats for crafting. If everything is BoL, as I mentioned earlier, will they still do it? I know for sure some wouldn't. I'm also not saying this would be widespread but judging from what is said both here and in General Chat, it seems that a lot of people would just stop grinding - or redoing content if you prefer - altogether if such system were to be in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelPiranha Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 But if I understood correctly, you have two separate armor configurations, one for each character, correct? They're not using the same. What I was saying earlier is that the Legacy-bound gear becomes prevalent, the less of an incentive people will have to redo content, since there's nothing for them there. Right now, even if it's only Arkanian or Underworld, you need to do the content if order to obtain them. If you go for Oriconian, you still need to do stuff, including things outside operations if you fancy it. If you prefer to resort to the GTN or trade mats for the item you need, you still need to play the game. If you make every single piece of gear BoL, including Relics, Earpieces and Implants, what I said above no longer implies. You'll be effectively cutting in half(?) the lifetime expectancy of content, as I've mentioned earlier already. If the BoP restriction was changed to BoL....I could grind everything with my main and send the earned gear that drops to my alt healer. I could gear my alt through my main basically. Hell, make the BoP into BoE(within the legacy), then it couldn't be traded multiple times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterBlackJack Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Exactly, since this thread is about a fee for changing items into legacy gear. I am getting allergic to all the fees I have to pay extra eventhough I have been a subscriber since pre-launch But part of the restrictions is needed in order to slow progression down because Bioware cannot produce content fast enough to keep up with people who constantly raid without having restrictions. The credit sink plays that part of keep progression in line. It also keeps the economy from going haywire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienEyeTX Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Or as I stated you can purchase the cartel version off the GTN (or cartel pack) if you really want the weapon and then put mods into that weapon That's one way to do it. I'm advocating a different approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterBlackJack Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 That's one way to do it. I'm advocating a different approach. I can't take any approach that removes the credit sink aspect of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelPiranha Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 If you prefer to resort to the GTN or trade mats for the item you need, you still need to play the game for credits. Regarding this, I can buy a hypercrate and sell the crate for creds for the mats. No playing required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 If the BoP restriction was changed to BoL....I could grind everything with my main and send the earned gear that drops to my alt healer. I could gear my alt through my main basically. Hell, make the BoP into BoE(within the legacy), then it couldn't be traded multiple times. I wouldn't have an issue with this quite honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) Regarding this, I can buy a hypercrate and sell the crate for creds for the mats. No playing required. True. Except for unlocking stuff, I don't use the CM at all so I tend to forget other uses - or "advantages" - it may have. Edited July 17, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icestar Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) But part of the restrictions is needed in order to slow progression down because Bioware cannot produce content fast enough to keep up with people who constantly raid without having restrictions. The credit sink plays that part of keep progression in line. It also keeps the economy from going haywire Well, ok...they do produce content slow but I have countered that by leveling 22 characters since I do enjoy this game. Regarding credit sink, there is no way to know for sure how it will affect or not if we could use all of our items on all of our characters. To me it means I can use my old columni/rakata gear on another character that I play more. Edited July 17, 2014 by Icestar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelPiranha Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) I wouldn't have an issue with this quite honestly. I wonder if this would be a better suggestion for discussion? A middle of the road approach if you will:) Edit: I'm speaking of making the all BoP items BoE(Legacy). That would allow you to trade it freely among your alts until it is equipped by one of them. Then it becomes bound to that character. Pro: 1.You can still trade valuable gear to alts that could use it. 2.You still need to work for it. Cons: 1. The need rolling could still prove problematic in PUGs. 2. This could cause problems in PVP(I wouldn't know since I don't PVP) Actually, that sounds very similar to Timeless Isle gear in WoW lol. Edited July 17, 2014 by SteelPiranha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirazy Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 "I need it for my vendor." Everyone has a vendor they can sell drops to. Yes, it is a jerk move, but people do it. Yeah. And tell me, is "I need it for my vendor" remotely related to whether I can move Bound items through my Legacy Storage or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirazy Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 But part of the restrictions is needed in order to slow progression down because Bioware cannot produce content fast enough to keep up with people who constantly raid without having restrictions. The credit sink plays that part of keep progression in line. It also keeps the economy from going haywire They already cannot do that. In fact, it is not POSSIBLE to do that. And Bioware should not be AIMING to satiate the needs of the incredibly tiny population that raids at that pace. The vast majority of players are casual and consume content much more slowly and at a relaxed pace. And as has been mentioned, being able to move bound items through LS doesn't change that one needs to acquire the gear in the first place. The only change is I don't have to do it on my brand new character, I can do it on my finely geared character without inordinate risk of dying and wiping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I wouldn't have an issue with this quite honestly. But the other characters didn't earn that item, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) But the other characters didn't earn that item, right? My main concern is the abuse that the BoL would allow. If it becomes BoE, my main concern would pretty much vanish. :rolleyes: People still need to PLAY the content. Got it or you need me to make a drawing? Edited July 17, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I wonder if this would be a better suggestion for discussion? A middle of the road approach if you will:) Edit: I'm speaking of making the all BoP items BoE(Legacy). That would allow you to trade it freely among your alts until it is equipped by one of them. Then it becomes bound to that character. Pro: 1.You can still trade valuable gear to alts that could use it. 2.You still need to work for it. Again, I wouldn't have an issue with this at all. As long as it becomes BOUND to a specific character after being first equipped, what I said earlier remains: People still need to redo or play the content, regardless of the character they use to do so. (...) Cons: 1. The need rolling could still prove problematic in PUGs. 2. This could cause problems in PVP(I wouldn't know since I don't PVP) Actually, that sounds very similar to Timeless Isle gear in WoW lol. You have people with Oriconian gear needing on Arkanian and Underworld gear, so I doubt something such as this would dramatically accentuate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 My main concern is the abuse that the BoL would allow. If it becomes BoE, my main concern would pretty much vanish. :rolleyes: People still need to PLAY the content. Got it or you need me to make a drawing? What do you define as "abuse"? Swapping gear between mirror classes? People already do that. What if you have an older shell that you earned on one character but want to wear on another? Is that abuse? Is it suddenly abuse if the character you acquired it on wore it first before trading it? And how do you think they got that gear to begin with if they're not playing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirazy Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 People still need to PLAY the content. Got it or you need me to make a drawing? Where are you getting the idea that BOL somehow means people don't play the content? Where do you think the mods come from? Like, really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) What do you define as "abuse"? Swapping gear between mirror classes? People already do that. What if you have an older shell that you earned on one character but want to wear on another? Is that abuse? Is it suddenly abuse if the character you acquired it on wore it first before trading it? Wanting everything to be BoL constitutes an "abuse" to me. Simple. And how do you think they got that gear to begin with if they're not playing it? I never said they didn't play. Learn to read, please. What I said is that if EVERYTHING is BoL, people will have less of a reason to grind or play for specific items which cannot be traded or swapped around, namely Relics, Implants and Earpieces. Edited July 17, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Where are you getting the idea that BOL somehow means people don't play the content? Where do you think the mods come from? Like, really? I've already addressed that a couple of pages back. Look for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 And as has been mentioned, being able to move bound items through LS doesn't change that one needs to acquire the gear in the first place. The only change is I don't have to do it on my brand new character, I can do it on my finely geared character without inordinate risk of dying and wiping. Except that right now you need to get the gear drop several times -- once for each character. With no BoP restrictions, you'd need fewer gear drops, as you could keep shlepping the existing gear around. This already happens with mods and such. If you were to apply this to implants, earpieces and relics as well, I fear it would impact the number of operations groups that form on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) Except that right now you need to get the gear drop several times -- once for each character. With no BoP restrictions, you'd need fewer gear drops, as you could keep shlepping the existing gear around. This already happens with mods and such. If you were to apply this to implants, earpieces and relics as well, I fear it would impact the number of operations groups that form on a regular basis. Agreed. Again, I believe SteelPiranha did the best suggestion thus far... I wonder if this would be a better suggestion for discussion? A middle of the road approach if you will:) Edit: I'm speaking of making the all BoP items BoE(Legacy). That would allow you to trade it freely among your alts until it is equipped by one of them. Then it becomes bound to that character. Pro: 1.You can still trade valuable gear to alts that could use it. 2.You still need to work for it. Cons: 1. The need rolling could still prove problematic in PUGs. 2. This could cause problems in PVP(I wouldn't know since I don't PVP) Actually, that sounds very similar to Timeless Isle gear in WoW lol. Edited July 17, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirazy Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Except that right now you need to get the gear drop several times -- once for each character. With no BoP restrictions, you'd need fewer gear drops, as you could keep shlepping the existing gear around. This already happens with mods and such. If you were to apply this to implants, earpieces and relics as well, I fear it would impact the number of operations groups that form on a regular basis. Except you can only gear "shlep" if you are using mirror classes. And, as has been mentioned, this already occurs. Essentially all that LS supporting Bound item transfer is an expansion of the cosmetic items that one can do it WITH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 I take a nap and this thread explodes into a completely different direction. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirazy Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Agreed. Again, I believe SteelPiranha did the best suggestion thus far... That way, people would still NEED to redo the content for specific items, namely Implants, Earpieces and Relics. You're weird. Do you imagine people won't run content unless they NEED to? Does anyone, when you get down to real world rationality, actually NEED to run content? Does anyone NEED to play this game? We play because we want to. Ergo, whether or not we have this CONVENIENCE FEATURE, we will play if we want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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