Kaggath Battlegrounds Heats - Empire of Plagues vs Imperial Droid Division

[Silenceo]

1. As I said before, Byss is a long way from Taris, nobody is getting there and back fast.

 

Trade routes are wonderful. Trade routes go both to Byss, to Mechis III, and even in between! The glory of the quick travel by trade routes!

 

And taking out the LoT will cause it to crash into the city, bare that in mind.

 

We already went over this, and how the IDD fleet would alert Jerec of the plan and evac, leaving the LoT to crush Muur bellow with little IDD casualties.

 

2. They have 1,900 fighters, field that many fighters and they'd crash into each other. On top of that once Lomi released the deadliness of the enemy point defenses, I expect she pulled her fighters back.

 

Yes and like I said, they would of NEEDED to deploy those throughout the battle to make sure that their defenses were not over whelmed. Remember, Lomi would have been quite overly protective of the LoT and spared no expense in protecting it.

 

Nonetheless they always have supplier transports to fall back on, those will just be unarmed.

 

3. I'm talking about when or if they drop out of hyperspace above Taris and try and evade the LoT.

 

Hyperspace pods work wonders for getting Dark Troopers, the most important unit of the IDD, to the planets surface for use. Also, I highly doubt the LoT can cover the entire city with its weapon firing arcs. One ship is simply not enough to blockade the planet.

 

4. I'm talking about before they arrive, nobody wants a blaster cannon to their face, as soon as they get a sniff of the enemy they'll start evacuating the facility and will go about destroying the virus and the lab itself in the process. In fact I expect this is standard Imperial procedure for any facility holding important Imperial assets.

 

How would they know before the IDD fleet is already in orbit or the hyperspace pods have landed, already with Dark Troopers deployed near the base?

 

At the very least, they'll wipe all the data, giving the IDD no idea how to use the virus. And yes it always comes as a surprise when the bad guys abandon their base and destroy/wipe everything, but they always do it, every time.

 

... Its a virus, they throw it at the enemy... ??? profit. That is of course, if they forgo bomb deployment, or injection, or any number of common sense ways of using it. Throw the goo at the enemy!

[Aurbere]

This Kaggath has gone on longer than I expected. Thank you Beni for arguing for my faction. Unfortunately, a combination of real life commitments, lack of motivation, and overall unhappiness with the way things have gone this Kaggath will probably keep me away for this weekend, which I assume will be the time during which it is called.

 

Warren, I'm sorry you don't like how this Kaggath is going, but this is how Kaggaths go. Our plans don't always work, or the opponent is capable of nullifying our advantages. That's just how it is. Do you think that I wasn't upset during the last Kaggath series when your faction could neutralize my entire military with the flip of a switch? I was upset. And I expressed those feelings, albeit in a joking manner to calm myself down. Despite my feelings, I still participated. I'm sure we have all had moments when things didn't go our way, but we still participated.

 

You can render this all moot if it is just real life commitments keeping you away. That last part of it just upset me.

[Beniboybling]

... Its a virus, they throw it at the enemy... ??? profit. That is of course, if they forgo bomb deployment, or injection, or any number of common sense ways of using it. Throw the goo at the enemy!

Well I can see by your examples, that you will utterly fail in its application.

[karadron]

What about the possibility of some bug spray being used?

[Silenceo]

Well I can see by your examples, that you will utterly fail in its application.

 

All it would take, is for Jerec to flush it down his personal toilet. Talk about fancy deployment plan!

 

In all seriousness though it isn't that hard to figure out to stick it into the other guys using the point end, coated with this stuff.

 

If nothing else, IG-88 is highly used to using toxins and could likely identify it is as a liquid strain, and the IDD could put 2 and 2 together for a form of deployment. Though, I still believe that they might be able to get some of the scientists to cooperate. Jerec was surprisingly charismatic. *Assuming they bring the scientist with the virus to Taris.*

 

For an evil sithspawn, Jerec was actually looked upon favorably by many, and he was able to, when he wished, to be charismatic enough to sway many minds as well as gain followers. For example, he swayed Sarriss to abandon her entire way of life to come serve him, and she was always trying to please him, looking for any signs of respect.

 

Not to mention the kind of authority his position as High Inquisitor might give him to the former imperials.

[Selenial]

All it would take, is for Jerec to flush it down his personal toilet

 

Wouldn't the Virus survive in his toilet, and just kill him next time he tries to... you know...?

[karadron]

Wouldn't the Virus survive in his toilet, and just kill him next time he tries to... you know...?

 

He would probably make IG-88 sanitize it just in case.

[Beniboybling]

All it would take, is for Jerec to flush it down his personal toilet. Talk about fancy deployment plan!

 

In all seriousness though it isn't that hard to figure out to stick it into the other guys using the point end, coated with this stuff.

 

If nothing else, IG-88 is highly used to using toxins and could likely identify it is as a liquid strain, and the IDD could put 2 and 2 together for a form of deployment. Though, I still believe that they might be able to get some of the scientists to cooperate. Jerec was surprisingly charismatic. *Assuming they bring the scientist with the virus to Taris.*

 

For an evil sithspawn, Jerec was actually looked upon favorably by many, and he was able to, when he wished, to be charismatic enough to sway many minds as well as gain followers. For example, he swayed Sarriss to abandon her entire way of life to come serve him, and she was always trying to please him, looking for any signs of respect.

 

Not to mention the kind of authority his position as High Inquisitor might give him to the former imperials.

So your actually serious about P1s running around with hyperdermic needles trying to stab through chitin? While the Killiks of course obliging stretch out an arm to be infected?

 

Or are we going with the hold it in your hand and try and throw it at the enemy idea? I'll get the popcorn...

 

But feel free to flush it down the toilet, and infect the entire water drinking population!

[karadron]

So your actually serious about P1s running around with hyperdermic needles trying to stab through chitin? While the Killiks of course obliging stretch out an arm to be infected?

 

Or are we going with the hold it in your hand and try and throw it at the enemy idea? I'll get the popcorn...

 

But feel free to flush it down the toilet, and infect the entire water drinking population!

 

Nah, it would get stuck in the sewers. I'm sure the water treatment plants could destroy it with their mighty water cleaning powers.

[Beniboybling]

Nah, it would get stuck in the sewers. I'm sure the water treatment plants could destroy it with their mighty water cleaning powers.

You mean the one in the sewers? That Muur controls? TBH I expect it will be Muur who drops the virus into the water supply before Jerec decides to. I mean its the obvious thing to do.

 

And if the Killiks decide its a good idea to drink sewage water, they're already dead.

[karadron]

You mean the one in the sewers? That Muur controls? TBH I expect it will be Muur who drops the virus into the water supply before Jerec decides to. I mean its the obvious thing to do.

 

And if the Killiks decide its a good idea to drink sewage water, they're already dead.

 

Oh those silly Killiks drinking sewer water.

[Silenceo]

Oh those silly Killiks drinking sewer water.

 

It was a bet between a Kilik and a Nekghoul.

 

Though, doesn't merely touching the goo or what ever begin the infection?

 

Also, even if Muur finally decides to unleash it, as we have gone over, that is the faction basically comitting suicide, and like others, I believe the IDD can fortify against zombies much better than the EoP can.

 

And I didn't mean all of the PI's running around with it on their blade, I meant like they leave one enemy alive, infect them, and toss him into enemy territory.

 

Side Note: If Jerec is the one who unleashes it, it most definitely goes to the Sewers before the drinking supply. Besides, since Jerec knows that it is then unleashed, he will have likely issued orders for the water to not be re-circulated or to have stocked up before hand. Jerec loves mental games, he would likely play this out as a large scale one.

 

After Thought: Weren't we supposed to move onto leadership battle stuff about 5 pages ago?

Edited July 25, 2014 by Silenceo

[Beniboybling]

It was a bet between a Kilik and a Nekghoul.

 

Though, doesn't merely touching the goo or what ever begin the infection?

 

Also, even if Muur finally decides to unleash it, as we have gone over, that is the faction basically comitting suicide, and like others, I believe the IDD can fortify against zombies much better than the EoP can.

 

And I didn't mean all of the PI's running around with it on their blade, I meant like they leave one enemy alive, infect them, and toss him into enemy territory.

 

Side Note: If Jerec is the one who unleashes it, it most definitely goes to the Sewers before the drinking supply. Besides, since Jerec knows that it is then unleashed, he will have likely issued orders for the water to not be re-circulated or to have stocked up before hand. Jerec loves mental games, he would likely play this out as a large scale one.

 

After Thought: Weren't we supposed to move onto leadership battle stuff about 5 pages ago?

And as we discussed, the Undercity is the least populated area, and nobody is going to be drinking the water, if anyone is still alive. And with all the lifts locked down it is the least likely to be infected.

 

Sending the poison into the sewers will not have any effect, because nobody in their right mind is going to drink sewage. All your doing is infecting the water apply which will either infect the entire population, or kill them due to lack of water. Dumb moves are dumb.

[Silenceo]

And as we discussed, the Undercity is the least populated area, and nobody is going to be drinking the water, if anyone is still alive. And with all the lifts locked down it is the least likely to be infected.

 

Sending the poison into the sewers will not have any effect, because nobody in their right mind is going to drink sewage. All your doing is infecting the water apply which will either infect the entire population, or kill them due to lack of water. Dumb moves are dumb.

 

So where is the EoP getting all of its supplies? The LoT has a lot sure, but they are not unlimited. Are they not hunting or gathering? All it would take is for basic survival gear to purify the water of the usual contaminants. Though, like I said, Jerec would likely have planned for this plans plan. He doesn't always do what is sane, he actually can be viewed as quite insane if you think about it.

 

I highly doubt that the water has to be consumed to infect however, if it touches them it likely will start the process, albeit slower. That infected water would be trapped all around the EoP, and with the recirculation stopped the water levels would only begin to rise, increasing the chances. At the time Muur will likely only think the IDD is trying to purge them from the sewers. Oh how very wrong they are... Oh, and wouldn't it suck if due to the water level rising, the EoP food supply became contaminated? What a shame...

[Silenceo]

Just to bring it back up, if Jerec and Lomi Plo had a battle of wills, considering mental powers are among Jerec's strongest trait, how do you guys think it would end? I foresee this occurring should Jerec attempt to do as he usually does and rip information out of his enemies heads, or in this case, a Kilik who is connected to the hive mind, aka Lomi Plo.

[Aurbere]

Just to bring it back up, if Jerec and Lomi Plo had a battle of wills, considering mental powers are among Jerec's strongest trait, how do you guys think it would end? I foresee this occurring should Jerec attempt to do as he usually does and rip information out of his enemies heads, or in this case, a Kilik who is connected to the hive mind, aka Lomi Plo.

 

Lomi Plo has the entire hive mind to draw on in a contest of wills. Now, I really don't want to get into the whole 'Lomi Plo' thing, but I think it's safe to say that the mental capabilities of herself drawing on a few thousand Killiks is enough to deny Jerec anything.

[Silenceo]

Lomi Plo has the entire hive mind to draw on in a contest of wills. Now, I really don't want to get into the whole 'Lomi Plo' thing, but I think it's safe to say that the mental capabilities of herself drawing on a few thousand Killiks is enough to deny Jerec anything.

 

Wouldn't the hive mind technically mean its defenses itself was weaker though? To allow everything to flow so freely between each other sounds a lot like there is very little resistance or obstacles. However, that does not deny the fact that they still could combine their collective might for mental counter strikes, but by that time it would be too late.

 

I mean, Jerec has ripped information from an actively resisting Jedi Master before, Master Rahn, and while the collective mental might of the Kilik hive mind is indeed great, I am unsure if they would be able to really hinder Jerec. It doesn't take more than a second for him to rip the information from the Kilik's mind.

 

Another thing to consider is that generally, none force sensitives are unable to attack another mentally so they would be relying upon Lomi Plo for that, which would allow them to combine their wills. It is the wills themselves that I doubt, they are all one, and one is all. It would mean they might lack the flexibility to defend itself, and considering that Lomi Plo doesn't really have any mental power feats...

 

It is also good to note that she doesn't have the entire Nest, she only has around 4,000 not even all of those being humanoid in size. Albeit size probably doesn't matter too much when it comes to mental powers. The point I am trying to make is that while the Hive Mind grants Lomi Plo great power, it also opens her up to a great weakness.

 

Not to mention they wouldn't be expecting such a trick, and due to how little time it would take for Jerec to take it, they might not be able to stop it. If they saw it coming I am sure they could likely stop him from at least taking anything due to their collective might. However, they do not even know Jerec is a Dark Jedi, so they wouldn't expect such a trick. Surprise as well as how little time it would take would allow Jerec the edge.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Silenceo

[Aurbere]

Alright, I'll get into it. It was bound to happen anyway, right?

 

Wouldn't the hive mind technically mean its defenses itself was weaker though? To allow everything to flow so freely between each other sounds a lot like there is very little resistance or obstacles. However, that does not deny the fact that they still could combine their collective might for mental counter strikes, but by that time it would be too late.

 

The hive mind has never been noted to be weak to mental intrusion, IIRC. Luke Skywalker struggled with Raynar Thul, whom had the entirety of the hive mind at his disposal. Now that may seem like an absurd comparison, but Jerec is infinitely (hyperbolic, lolz) weaker than Luke, and the number of Killiks is just as small, making the comparison valid.

 

Also, the Killiks are always connected to the hive mind, which means that the mental strength is always the same, no rebuffing necessary (I think)

 

I mean, Jerec has ripped information from an actively resisting Jedi Master before, Master Rahn, and while the collective mental might of the Kilik hive mind is indeed great, I am unsure if they would be able to really hinder Jerec. It doesn't take more than a second for him to rip the information from the Kilik's mind.

 

Again, I don't think the hive mind has to be collected.

 

Another thing to consider is that generally, none force sensitives are unable to attack another mentally so they would be relying upon Lomi Plo for that, which would allow them to combine their wills. It is the wills themselves that I doubt, they are all one, and one is all. It would mean they might lack the flexibility to defend itself, and considering that Lomi Plo doesn't really have any mental power feats...

 

Lomi Plo mind tricked Anakin Solo, who was considered to be the next Luke Skywalker.

 

Also, to the underlined, it's one is all and all is one.

 

It is also good to note that she doesn't have the entire Nest, she only has around 4,000 not even all of those being humanoid in size. Albeit size probably doesn't matter too much when it comes to mental powers. The point I am trying to make is that while the Hive Mind grants Lomi Plo great power, it also opens her up to a great weakness.

 

Not to mention they wouldn't be expecting such a trick, and due to how little time it would take for Jerec to take it, they might not be able to stop it. If they saw it coming I am sure they could likely stop him from at least taking anything due to their collective might. However, they do not even know Jerec is a Dark Jedi, so they wouldn't expect such a trick. Surprise as well as how little time it would take would allow Jerec the edge.

 

I basically answer all of these points above, but I'll say it again. Just to make it clear, I'm going off of memory.

 

I do not think the hive mind needs to be gathered to defend or attack. It is one mind, right? So defending against Jerec should be possible, and I still don't see how the hive mind opens Lomi up to weaknesses.

[Silenceo]

Alright, I'll get into it. It was bound to happen anyway, right?

 

 

 

The hive mind has never been noted to be weak to mental intrusion, IIRC. Luke Skywalker struggled with Raynar Thul, whom had the entirety of the hive mind at his disposal. Now that may seem like an absurd comparison, but Jerec is infinitely (hyperbolic, lolz) weaker than Luke, and the number of Killiks is just as small, making the comparison valid.

 

I do not ever recall Luke being the ubber boss at mind games, I thought that was left to Corran Horn? Telepathic Strength =/= Telekinetic Strength.

 

Also, the Killiks are always connected to the hive mind, which means that the mental strength is always the same, no rebuffing necessary (I think)

 

According to Kaggath Rules, those other Kiliks, for all intents and purposes do not exist however. Think of them of an entirely different Hive, that is separate from this one.

 

Again, I don't think the hive mind has to be collected.

 

I disagree. Take for example how Luke Skywalker was put into a comatose state when he was not expecting a mental attack from Exar Kun. When he later goes to face him, he isn't put right back into that same state. I can not remember the scenes 100%, but if Kun's spirit could do it once, why not a second time? He was prepared this time.

 

Lomi Plo mind tricked Anakin Solo, who was considered to be the next Luke Skywalker.

 

Mind tricking into seeing something that is not there is vastly different than sucker punching you and stealing your lunch money. You see them sucker punch you most of the time, and it hurts. Yet you can not stop it.

 

Also, to the underlined, it's one is all and all is one.

 

Yes, though this leads to the weakness I will go into below.

 

I basically answer all of these points above, but I'll say it again. Just to make it clear, I'm going off of memory.

 

I do not think the hive mind needs to be gathered to defend or attack. It is one mind, right? So defending against Jerec should be possible, and I still don't see how the hive mind opens Lomi up to weaknesses.

 

Normally, you wouldn't have a problem with another person trying to knock you over by pushing you since you see it coming and brace yourself. But then imagine one tries to push you over when you are just standing casually, and more often than not down he would go. No one is always bracing for the impact, most of the time they are casual. Same applies here.

 

As for the weakness, the entire Hive Mind is relying on Lomi Plo to guide its offense/ defense in the mental catagory but the fact is she has exactly 0 mental feats that have to do with this sort of scenario. No one has really probed her mind that I can recall, nor has she probed another's mind. The closest that she has is mind tricks, which are relatively simply, yet to do so on Anakin would merely require a lot of muscle, which the entirety of the Kilik species would grant.

 

So what we would have then is a lumbering brute against an experienced brute. One knows the ins and outs of mental manipulation and ect, whereas the other knows next to nothing. All the strength in the world will do you no good if you can not cope with what is being thrown at you.

 

The weakness is that whenever a Kilik shows its face, is that Jerec could, in theory, meditate and enter into a battle of wills with Lomi which will disrupt the Kilik's cohesiveness. Granted he can't do it for too long otherwise even the unwieldy might of the hive mind will come about, but that in-cohesiveness is all the IDD would need to push back the assault. As more Kiliks die, it becomes even easier and easier for Jerec to pull this trick.

 

After a while Lomi would be exhausted from attempting to defend the hive mind from Jerec's advances, and by the time the IDD is in the sewers, while Jerec is surrounded safely by his Dark Troopers, Lomi will be fighting for her life, exhausted.

 

There are other things I would wish to add to this, but I shall leave it at this part for now to allow for responses.

 

Side Note: Just thought I would bring up the fact that Jerec was regarded by some to be nearly equal to Darth Vader in his suit in force power. The reason that Jerec never challenged Darth Vader is basically due to the fact that Vader's saber skills would make it extremely difficult for Jerec to use his destructive force abilities. It was in saber skill that Vader ultimately beat the Dark Jedi out, not the force. Which, some theorize, is why Jerec was attempting to link 6 other dark jedi to his will, so that he would essentially control 7 dark jedi bodies at once. Based on an ancient history story of 7 Sith focused into one will or some such. Not as much of a push over as first thought.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Silenceo

[Beniboybling]

So where is the EoP getting all of its supplies? The LoT has a lot sure, but they are not unlimited. Are they not hunting or gathering? All it would take is for basic survival gear to purify the water of the usual contaminants. Though, like I said, Jerec would likely have planned for this plans plan. He doesn't always do what is sane, he actually can be viewed as quite insane if you think about it.

 

I highly doubt that the water has to be consumed to infect however, if it touches them it likely will start the process, albeit slower. That infected water would be trapped all around the EoP, and with the recirculation stopped the water levels would only begin to rise, increasing the chances. At the time Muur will likely only think the IDD is trying to purge them from the sewers. Oh how very wrong they are... Oh, and wouldn't it suck if due to the water level rising, the EoP food supply became contaminated? What a shame...

From the skyyyy. *looks up in wonderment*

 

Anyway, the EoP controls the sewers so the EoP controls the water supply. Try to understand this.

[LadyKulvax]

I think we should explore how effective killzones created by the I.D.D will be.

 

Killiks are not the toughest things in the world and practically everything the P1, P2, P3, Spider droids have is heavy weaponry, i think creating killzones and then deploying a phalanx when the EoP regroups will cause severe casualties.

[Beniboybling]

I think we should explore how effective killzones created by the I.D.D will be.

 

Killiks are not the toughest things in the world and practically everything the P1, P2, P3, Spider droids have is heavy weaponry, i think creating killzones and then deploying a phalanx when the EoP regroups will cause severe casualties.

Indeed but killzones can only really be deployed when defending, not when marching into enemy territory.

 

I think what really needs to be discussed is how the IDD is going to prevent themselves from being spread thin. Remember the Killiks alone outnumber them 4 to 1 and they only have a limited amount of vehicles. The IDD has a counter for pretty much everything the EoP has, but ultimately they can only be in so many places at once.

[LadyKulvax]

Indeed but killzones can only really be deployed when defending, not when marching into enemy territory.

 

I think what really needs to be discussed is how the IDD is going to prevent themselves from being spread thin. Remember the Killiks alone outnumber them 4 to 1 and they only have a limited amount of vehicles. The IDD has a counter for pretty much everything the EoP has, but ultimately they can only be in so many places at once.

 

"The tighter your grip, the more star systems will slip between your fingers."

 

Yes the same applies here, which is why only holding on to the most crucial areas is better for them.

 

Also considering the leadership of the I.D.D I can see them using the population and EoP's starvation against them, they don't need to save the population... when they can use them as bait, what does he say in The Crow.. "I feel like a worm on a big ****in' hook.".

 

The EoP is going to get hungry, so why not place thousands in larger buildings, rig em with explosives and blow up boat fulls of bugs and ghouls in one go.

 

The I.D.D 'retreats' to more secure areas leaving thousands in blocks and then when the EoP pours in to get a snack, BOOM.

Edited July 26, 2014 by LadyKulvax

[Selenial]

From the skyyyy. *looks up in wonderment*

 

Anyway, the EoP controls the sewers so the EoP controls the water supply. Try to understand this.

 

Your taps give out sewage water?

 

Do you live in Liverpool? poor guy.

 

Either way, yeh... No. They'll have reservoirs and other things, tarisians don't drink sewage.

 

Sure, it's likely SOME of the sewage water is cleaned and then recycled, but you can't poison the sewage water and expect it to work, it'll be filtered or diverted, these places are designed to rid water of infections.

[tausra]

Anyway, the EoP controls the sewers so the EoP controls the water supply. Try to understand this.

 

The EoP controls sewage and some of the cycling. It is hilariously bad city planning to try and force water back up over a thousand feet to the Middle City. Sewage likely gets pumped down to the Under City, cleaned and then sent up to the lowest level of each other City where it is cleaned again using their available technology. You think the Upper Middle Class is going to drink water out of a tap that was last filtered by the Thugs in the Lower City? Or, even the poorest person in the Upper City would drink anything not scrubbed at least three more times since the gangs, aliens and ilk of the Lower City/Under City?

 

It is the same across real world cities, with something as simple as a faucet attachment; but the sheer scope means emergency planning would have a reserve for at least the Upper Level. After all, only 20-30 years prior the entire planet tried to over throw the Upper City,

 

What about the possibility of some bug spray being used?

 

Funny you should mention that. The Middle City is the economic Hub of the planet, which means there is very likely to be bug spray available. The cleaning droids will likely come equipped with the stuff, considering how relentlessly the Upper City hated uncleanliness. As it so happens I work in a Hotel, which can hold 80 people. Everyone of our cleaning ladies has a can of spray on their carts, just in case. We are a solid two star hotel.